Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bill Hagan on July 18, 2017, 08:54:02 AM
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Good morning from the subtropical rain forest known as Atlanta.
I have a "fastener problem."
In this instance, no, I haven't stripped threads, etc.; instead, it's a case of not being able to find the right replacement for OEM ones that are too short for an after-market application I wish to add to the Stornello.
The Stornello is luggage-challenged, and I knew that when I bought it. Not trying to make it a GS. Still, to make it easier on me when I stopped for fuel, etc. (and for me and the police at roadside chats when the officer says, "Dokumente, bitte." :rolleyes:
So, I bought a quick-lock ringfor the Stornello to use with my small Givi bag. Already have those for Norge and Griso and happy with 'em.
Unfortunately, when I tried to install the ring on the Stornello, I have to leave off the thin rubber ring seal to get the screws to bite enough thread to hold all in place. :sad:
Leaving it off is an option, I suppose, as -- at least in theory -- any water or excess fuel is vented out a drain hole at the present fuel hole.
But that would -- even if otherwise workable -- seem to risk affecting the paint at the lip with the inevitable rust, etc. :cry:
So, here's the issue.
The present fasteners are oval head M4's. That would seem to be needed for the recess in the OEM retaining ring that remains when the quick-lock ring is installed.
And (see pix) are 12's, tho I can't find a parts list that specifies more than M4.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SS2pvNL/0/a16ce6a3/L/i-SS2pvNL-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Rsr5hTD/0/3bc7c3eb/L/i-Rsr5hTD-L.jpg)
I have scoured the web for similar items and failed.
Would think M4/14 would do it. Preferably SS.
Anyone know who might sell same?
Happy to hear any workarounds, too, as I may be missing the easier fix.
Grazie mille!
Bill
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Fastenal.com
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I think the length measurement includes the beveled part of the head, at least it does normally. Not oval heads, but these should work:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#92125a194/=18juvcv
How the various types are measured:
(https://images1.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/attribute/b01-socketheadcapscrews-headstylemeas1-spec.png?ver=1470136741)
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M4 x 12 like this?
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02632925 (https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02632925)
-AJ
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Here is a M4/14 in SS:
https://www.belmetric.com/4mm-c-6_341_1446_1448/sb4x14ss-button-head-stainless-p-8912.html?zenid=j87u0okfhkk1735bcc2beij7b3
Belmetric sells all sorts of specialty metric stuff.
- RightD
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M4 x 12 like this?
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02632925 (https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02632925)
-AJ
Good find, but watch out on the length. The page specifies this:
"Length Measurement Type Overall Length"
In overall length it looks like Bill has a M4x16, judging from his photo.
There is an M4x20 available:
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02632925 (https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02632925)
Moto
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QUOTE: Challenge for the Terminally Bored...
Is'nt that an oxymoron for this forum?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink: :cool:
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Why not just buy longer than necessary and then get creative with a Dremel cut-off wheel and grinder to make the exact length you want? I do that all the time. Don't get locked into stock sales dimensions.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Many thanks to all. Very helpful.
Did not know measurement piece. Ancora imparo! :laugh:
Will order something among those offerings ... and have dremel handy, too. :wink:
Bill
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I was just at an ACE hdwre that had a remarkable selection of metric fasteners -- up to grade 10 and down to m2. I'd try them. Lowes also has a good selection, but I suspect some of their stuff is counterfeit.
I know a guy who cross-threads any fastener that doesn't immediately behave. He's all the time lecturing me on due diligence, best practices, and attention to detail, so I'm sure crossthreading, especially frame bolts, is a best practice. Try that if you can't get but a few threads in. Or, his other favorite trick is to use different thread and shaft size combinations to get just the right amount of seized fuckuppery. Jam those fellas in there and then you can cut your bodywork to fit around them. :huh:
I would not use stainless buttonheads anywhere, ever. Buttonheads are already the dumbest fastener design out there. Guzzi's are grade nothing and hold up exactly as well as you'd expect from grade nothing. Making them stainless (softer, more prone to a good reaming by the wrench) just makes them worse. ($0.02)
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I must admit Bill that when i dropped a shouldered cheese head machine screw out of the Breva I ended up getting half a dozen from AliExpress. Only place I could find them. Shipped, they ended up cheaper than getting the boggy S/S machine screws here.! :rolleyes:
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Bill,
If you can find that shaped head at the hardware store, just buy it over long if there isn't the correct length. Buy a couple of appropriate nuts, put them on the bolt & adjust until it's the length you want. Then using the nut to guide the dremel cut the bolt flush. When you remove the nuts they will re-shape the thread and you will only need to bevel the fresh cut end with a file to clean everything up.
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Thanks again.
The nut as a guide is a great idea.
And, ACE and TruValue do have quite an array of metric, SAE, and "weird" fasteners. Will stop by and see if they might have these before I order any.
I do think that the oval head is required because of the way the recess is on the OEM tank ring.
Bill
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Acting on Moto's reference, I ordered these M4/20's.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mXKc5Dx/0/74c39d7e/L/i-mXKc5Dx-L.jpg)
Actually look better than the website's depiction.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-s8tJdkc/0/d30bb53b/L/i-s8tJdkc-L.jpg)
Four of the longer ones fit perfectly, but the one at the front of the tank seems to bottom, tho it must be something else. I'd just use the OEM part, but it doesn't look as good as the new ones. Besides, that mixes fasteners (the other OC's here understand how that won't work! :wink:), so I'll do as nobleswood suggested and shorten that one a bit.
Ah, but now I have another and greater concern than the fasteners, etc.
In the course of removing the filler-cap assembly, I found that the paint is peeling in what I view as a serious way. :shocked:
Maybe I should post as a separate thread, but I'll start this way.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3SHbmMN/0/f7e2ad57/L/i-3SHbmMN-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TTMbj6C/0/afe27504/L/i-TTMbj6C-L.jpg)
Warranty issue? Raise with dealer? Aside from paint bits getting into the fuel, can't imagine that the peeling would stop doing that, eventually surfacing.
On a related note, does it matter which way the hole in the inner ring is oriented? I failed to note that on removal. At the "top" as I have it now?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qz9ct4f/0/04f9d37a/L/i-qz9ct4f-L.jpg)
Thanks.
Bill
[Edited to remove those foxtrotting whatever-they-ares �. :violent1: :violent1: :violent1:]
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For reference, it looks like your old screw is 14 or 15mm long. The measurement is from the countersunk surface of the part it goes in, to the end of the screw. With a flat head, it would be the overall length.
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I would certainty raise the paint peeling issue with the dealer Bill.
Paul