Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bonaventure on November 30, 2017, 07:51:12 PM
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Haven't had the seat off in a while, went to pull out battery maintainer plug-in and found corrosion on negative terminal. Pulled the cover to check positive-- clean. I've not seen a battery get corrosion on the neg and the positive is pristine clean, on my car's its always been the opposite the positive gets the corrosion not the neg.
I'm not cool with this on a three month old bike.
(https://image.ibb.co/h8zhPb/IMG_20171130_191414.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/id9tVG/IMG_20171130_191202.jpg)
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Take the terminals off scrape them clean and apply a little petroleum jelly aka Vaseline
You will never have another problem,
Sent from my shoe phone!
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Take the terminals off scrape them clean and apply a little petroleum jelly aka Vaseline
You will never have another problem,
Sent from my shoe phone!
:1:
.....and breathe slowly. That first nibble of the ravages of time on a new bike is always painful.
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A tiny bit of corrosion and the sky is falling!
Sorry, First World Problem. Fix and forget!
Pete
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Not to be an alarmist, but that is a bit odd. Maybe a tiny bit of acid seepage?
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Not to be an alarmist, but that is a bit odd. Maybe a tiny bit of acid seepage?
I don't think so, it's quite common to see corrosion on an unprotected terminal. it could also be a splash from when the guy removed the fill bottles
The battery on my Griso was quite bad when I picked it up from the previous owner.
I rabbit on about protecting the terminals with Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline, I have been doing that for well over 50 years and never see corrosion.
Any wet spot on the bike should be protected the same way. I dip wires in Vasilene before I crimp them into lugs
Vaseline� Jelly is triple-filtered, Moms love it for preventing diaper rash.
If it's good enough for a baby's bum it's good enough for your Guzzi
While I think of it there's another spot on the bikes that needs attention that's where the cable comes out of the speed sensor, the cable is soft and it doesn't bond well to the hard epoxy of the sensor. The transition between cable and epoxy provides a perfect path for wicking moisture into the internal components. A smidgin of silicone sealant where the cable comes out will provide a flexible bridge between the soft cable and the hard epoxy.
This would apply to the ABS sensors as well I think.
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If this 'new' bike has the OEM battery it's just a matter of time before the battery starts to leak acid. That battery was not designed (nor is it recommended) for installation in a horizontal position. This is a well documented Stelvio problem with only one solution.....buy a better battery that IS designed for horizontal installation. Been there and done that.
Peter Y.
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Peter may be right, I assumed it was sitting tilted slightly backwards with the terminals at the highest point like my Griso
If the terminals are below try sealing around them with a good silicone sealant, it's good for strong acid.
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My first Griso was a daily commuter and would stand out in the rain on occasion. When it refused to start one day I pulled the seat and the battery terminals looked like a science project. I cleaned them up and did the vaseline thing but the green growth came back too quickly. Now I use a battery spray that coats the terminals in a sticky purple stuff that works much better. The Griso has the same battery in a more upright position.
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ACF-50
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If this 'new' bike has the OEM battery it's just a matter of time before the battery starts to leak acid. That battery was not designed (nor is it recommended) for installation in a horizontal position. This is a well documented Stelvio problem with only one solution.....buy a better battery that IS designed for horizontal installation. Been there and done that.
Peter Y.
Yep, it is the factory battery. By new, I do mean new as in 2 miles on the odometer upon delivery few months ago on August 29th. Suppose technically it's still not fresh new, since it was a left over 2016 in dealer inventory.
Been researching batteries this morning, since I'm on a V day. Probably go with a VRLA AGM type. Actually quite coincidental to discover this yesterday, given that I'd posted an thread here about AGM batteries last week.
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I replaced my OE battery with a MotoBatt, $95 on Amazon. Separate lugs for accessories, won't leak, etc. This after the OE Yuasa leaked just a bit - keep an eye on yours, it will leak eventually.
Unfortunately, the MotoBatt is now getting weak after 26 months (with a 24 month warranty). Tender, lots of riding, 14.2 on the dash while running - it drops overnight and struggles to turn over.
I'll probably replace with the same.
Tom
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Read this from Moto International. http://www.motointernational.com/blog/news-and-events/post/moto-guzzi-battery-cable-cleaning
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Read this from Moto International. http://www.motointernational.com/blog/news-and-events/post/moto-guzzi-battery-cable-cleaning
That is excellent info from none less one of the the PNW's most trusted dealerships. Thank you sir. Was going to hit the terminal with a corrosion preventer or just silicone grease after cleaning, but Moto Int'l advises against it in that guide so I probably won't.
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P.S. The OEM battery is apparently a YUASA YTX20CH-BS, which appears to be (not 100% sure...) an AGM type.
I thought AGM's were okay for tilt mount and don't leak.
For now I'm going to clean and keep an eye on it. However upon close inspection I noticed moisture glinting in the seams of the seal strip over the cell/acid port on top of the battery. Swiping w/ a q-tip confirmed there was moisture there (bike not been in rain or washed). So apparently I'm well advised to start shopping for a different battery. Probably an AGM that's been proven reliable in the Stelvio's slanted install. Lithium-Iron is tempting but seems to bring some drawbacks as well.
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P.S. The OEM battery is apparently a YUASA YTX20CH-BS, which appears to be (not 100% sure...) an AGM type.
I thought AGM's were okay for tilt mount and don't leak.
I true AGM is OK to tilt. But Yuasa is pushing the terminology here. That battery is shipped dry, and the dealer has to add the acid. Just like a wet cell.
A seen in the photo on the web site. www.yuasabatteries. com/battery.php?bID=B186&vID=1014
And page 16 here: http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2014.pdf
If the battery is not filled just right, it will leak. And a lot of them leak.
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I dip wires in Vasilene before I crimp them into lugs
Wouldn't it be more prudent to dip them in Vaseline after they were crimped?
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So.... I had it apart this afternoon. There was a ton of corrosion underside of the neg terminal and although the positive term looked good attached, taking it apart it had significant corrosion on the underside as well. This all starts to make sense with how the bike was cranking longer and slower which I attributed to cooler/cold weather arriving. I don't know what the battery was charging at while riding because I'd not pulled that up on the display. But it was showing 12.2v on the LCD display, parked, engine off today before I pulled the [corroded] terminals off.
(https://image.ibb.co/dv7ofG/IMG_20171201_155250.jpg)
Underside of the positive terminal was not quite as much, maybe 75%. Didn't do any happy snaps after clean-up, but used the baking soda method from Moto Int'l guide on their site then just a lot of working on them with ultra fine emery paper until the corrosion was gone. Coated them with some DeoxIT (red oily electrical contact cleaner) and let sit for a few minutes before wiping off.
Hooked it all back up and went riding (sunny 57 F out...). 14.3v riding and 12.7 parked back in the garage afterward. As expected she cranked faster and turned over quicker. Also ran better. As would be expected.
So when I chose Moto Guzze after lurking and posting here this past summer, I knew with one dealer 90 min away and another 3.5 hrs away that I would be my own warranty on small stuff. Like this. So I'm shopping for a replacement battery effective immediately ... One that won't leak !!!
Keeping in mind this is all on a bike I got the end of this past August with 2 miles on it, a left over 2016 new inventory. I still love the bike though. But honestly this is slightly annoying.
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If the battery is leaking or has leaked it's probably because it wasn't put into service correctly. You can't just fling the acid in, stick it in the bike and fire it up to ride. Unfortunately many shops seem to be incapable of reading the instructions in the box. Likewise many owners! If you buy a new battery, whatever the type, RTFB!
Pete
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As Pete says- spend a day and do it right.
And use Vaseline on the terminals, I don't give a shit what MI say###
Sent from my shoe phone!
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I'll definitely RTFB on whatever I get to replace this battery the dealership installed when they did the initial setup of the bike. Looks like a choice between VRLA AGM sealed maintenance-free, or LiFEPo4 lithium-iron. :cool:
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Mark runs a LiFe battery in his Griso and swears by it. I've got a Yuasa factory sealed AGM in mine, its only a 16 but has bulk CCA's. I had a bad run of YTX20CH-BS's last year. No idea why. Previously I'd had no problems and my original battery for my '08 Griso lasted seven or eight years. Then I had two go weedy within a year. Go figure?
Pete
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If this 'new' bike has the OEM battery it's just a matter of time before the battery starts to leak acid. That battery was not designed (nor is it recommended) for installation in a horizontal position. This is a well documented Stelvio problem with only one solution.....buy a better battery that IS designed for horizontal installation. Been there and done that.
Peter Y.
:1: Peter is right. My Stelvio neg terminal was completely covered in blue fuzz after 6 months.
I use this stuff on the battery terminals instead of vaseline...... the no-ox-id is conductive. Seems like the perfect stuff for battery terminals.
https://www.amazon.com/NO-OX-ID-Special-Electrical-Contact-Corrosion/dp/B00HDF9EXE/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_tr_img_1/130-8579810-1774542?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SARECENM6GNGPNTSPWRK
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I use this stuff on the battery terminals instead of vaseline...... the no-ox-id is conductive. Seems like the perfect stuff for battery terminals.
Demar,
Please take your multimeter on Ohms and poke the two probes into the jar 1/2" apart and tell us what it reads.
Thanks
Roy
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:1: Peter is right. My Stelvio neg terminal was completely covered in blue fuzz after 6 months.
I use this stuff on the battery terminals instead of vaseline...... the no-ox-id is conductive. Seems like the perfect stuff for battery terminals.
https://www.amazon.com/NO-OX-ID-Special-Electrical-Contact-Corrosion/dp/B00HDF9EXE/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_tr_img_1/130-8579810-1774542?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SARECENM6GNGPNTSPWRK
Hey thanks, that stuff looks like the ticket. I like that the company made it to be electrically conductive as an add'l property to being a sealing grease and corrosion inhibitor.
Many people think dielectric grease (silicone grease) is a conductor but it is not, it is an insulator. Not good to put on 12v battery terminals. I'm going to order some of that NoOxId off Amazon though, it is a unique product and I'll be putting it on the batt terminals of my car and fiancee's car as well. Good find and thanks again !! :cool:
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Where in the ad does it say conductive?
I guess I have been doing it all wrong for the last 50 years, damn.
Sent from my shoe phone!
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It doesn't in the amazon ad but if you go to the company website their claim is that it's conductive.
http://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html
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" Do not use anything to coat the surface between the battery terminal and battery lead. This will inhibit current flow and cause additional electrical symptom problems. If you absolutely have to use something, make sure you apply it only after the connection has been made and terminal is tightly connected. Currently we advise against it."
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Who are you quoting there Tom?
Sent from my shoe phone!
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Micha from Moto International. Hey....that's what's in the link.
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I started my electrical apprenticeship in 1960 working in a large Railway workshop. I was extremely fortunate to work with very experienced journeymen from a wide range of trades. I often worked on battery banks, single cells strapped together to form high Voltage batteries, you had to have your wits about you as these had the capacity to do some serious harm. I also worked on overhead cranes with drum controllers for varying the speed of the hoist and travel motors, these had hundreds of large copper contacts that would wear rapidly if not lubricated.
Fast forward a few years and I was working construction at a major pulp mill expansion and I was told to put a switchgear battery together, from memory this battery was about 100 Volts DC used for opening and closing the main circuit breakers. I got called into the office one day to see the bosses and several of the clients Electrical Engineers standing around, I thought to myself I'm in trouble now, but no they just wanted to find out why the battery I had put together was pristine while several in other switch-rooms were a mess of corrosion. The difference was I had applied a little petroleum jelly as I had been taught as an apprentice.
If you put the leads on a battery without some form of grease it forms an electrical cell Lead to Copper, the moisture from the atmosphere acting as the electrolyte. Also the Oxygen in the air reacts with the lead to form lead oxide which is an insulator. You can demonstrate the insulation effect of lead oxide (a darker grey layer), take the probes from your Voltmeter and rest them lightly on the lead battery posts, chances are it will read zero Volts.
I'm guessing 95% of new motorcycle batteries go together dry, but this is not a good idea as Bonaventure found out and showed in his pictures, he caught it early on before anything serious happened.
An electrical contact is not two perfectly smooth surfaces touching, if you look at a microscopic view it's more like a couple of mountain ranges.
Often the lead oxide will creep in between the metal components and completely disconnect the battery.
I'm sure you have all experienced sudden loss of power with a vehicle battery, usually happens in the middle of winter when the heavy start current fuses the last little bit of metal still making contact, a few cents worth of Vaseline will prevent this.
Don't use anything rather than Vaseline, I'm not saying other forms of grease aren't better just that Vaseline is perfectly adequate. According to others Silicone dielectric grease does more harm than good.
In conclusion if you would rather follow some ill informed advice rather than my 50+ years of experience go right ahead.
Roy
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Demar,
Please take your multimeter on Ohms and poke the two probes into the jar 1/2" apart and tell us what it reads.
Thanks
Roy
:grin: :grin: :popcorn:
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" Do not use anything to coat the surface between the battery terminal and battery lead. This will inhibit current flow and cause additional electrical symptom problems. If you absolutely have to use something, make sure you apply it only after the connection has been made and terminal is tightly connected.� Currently we advise against it."
I ordered some of that conductive anti-corrosion stuff, but from an eBay seller for less money. Will try it and see if the terminals stay clean awhile. Will also put some in between the battery terminal stud and cable terminal and see if the headlights still work afterwards . . .
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Be sure to measure the resistance when it arrives.
Between two probes 1/2" apart :popcorn:
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with my 2009 stelvio I had that after a year. I cleaned it, put a bit normal grease on, nothing special, and now the same battery still is working, and hasn't given any problem. I Don't tender it over winter and is still going strong.
No sweat!
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Be sure to measure the resistance when it arrives.
Between two probes 1/2" apart :popcorn:
How to probe a tiny jar of paste? Make a thin 1/2" line on wood and probe the ends?
Your reply #30 is very informative and appreciate the time you took for posting it. :cool:
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with my 2009 stelvio I had that after a year. I cleaned it, put a bit normal grease on, nothing special, and now the same battery still is working, and hasn't given any problem. I Don't tender it over winter and is still going strong.
No sweat!
I have used regular grease or in a pinch a few drops of oil off the dip-stick, it's just a bit messier than Vaseline but seems to work fine.
I always say, "Vaseline is good for a babies bum, so it's good enough for your Guzzi"
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Interesting reading
http://sw-em.com/anti_corrosive_paste.htm
Paul
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UPDATE
Choosing to go with a Motobatt MBTX16U to replace the leaking dealer prepped Yuasa YTX20CH-BS. Motobatt publishes complete specs on their batteries including internal resistance and everything looks good.
(https://image.ibb.co/ioTLkG/MBTX16U.jpg)
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When you install the Motobatt make sure you get the positive terminal in the correct place (left side)
I helped someone a while back, he had put the Motobatt in backwards so the bike was the reverse polarity.
The Bosch starter cranked ok (Veleo would go backwards) but no spark.
I think the Carc bikes have a safety diode to prevent applying the wrong polarity to the ECU but don't risk it.
And don't forget Gods gift to batteries LOL
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I spent some time checking out my new to me 07 Griso for Startus Interuptus potential, although the relay is fed direct from a fuse bypassing the ignition switch :thumb: the wire from Start relay to solenoid was far too tiny, I'm guessing the equivalent of 20 or 22 gauge. I changed it out for 18 gauge now the solenoid engages in about 1/3d the time it did before.
The solenoid pulls between 30 & 40 Amps while it engages the gear.
I suspect your Stelvio probably uses the same size wires.
Note: On your bike the current also has to struggle up to the ignition switch and back, I'll guarantee sooner or later you will be struck by the dreaded click. When it happens cycle the key switch a few times.