Author Topic: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!  (Read 3947 times)

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2020, 03:00:07 PM »
The bad news is, after your 20 minute demo, they had to plug the bike into a charger for 6 hours!

Nope. But nice try.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2020, 07:54:20 PM »
Sorry, I just got it..!
Good one.. :thumb: :popcorn:

(Ahem) A little slow, there, Huzo..  :smiley:
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2020, 08:42:36 PM »
(Ahem) A little slow, there, Huzo..  :smiley:
Touche’

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2020, 07:35:52 AM »
Regenerative braking is like engine braking. If you set it to max regenerative braking it will slow you down without brakes and recharge the battery

And probably destroy the rear tire in 1000 miles. Great way to save money!
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2020, 07:35:52 AM »

Offline Motormike

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2020, 08:04:56 AM »
Sorry, I just got it..!
Good one.. :thumb: :popcorn:
That's OK, electrics bikes don't strike a spark in me.  They still don't have enough capacitor.  Maybe in a few mores years, they have it wired.  Until then, I 'll just have to watt.
(Sorry :rolleyes:)

Offline Motormike

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2020, 08:11:35 AM »
Nope. But nice try.
From the HD web site: On those fast chargers, the Livewire will charge to 80 percent in 40 minutes or require an hour to take on a full charge. Most of the time, riders will probably charge up in their garage, with a cord-set that fits under the seat. It takes between 10 and 11 hours for a full charge on Level 1.

I was close enough.  40 minutes to an hour at a Harley dealer is too long for me.  10 hours at home is even worse. That's a lot of cigerette breaks, and I don't even smoke.  But if I had the wherewithal to buy one of these things, I'd have to start!

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2020, 08:18:26 AM »
From the HD web site: On those fast chargers, the Livewire will charge to 80 percent in 40 minutes or require an hour to take on a full charge. Most of the time, riders will probably charge up in their garage, with a cord-set that fits under the seat. It takes between 10 and 11 hours for a full charge on Level 1.

I was close enough.  40 minutes to an hour at a Harley dealer is too long for me.  10 hours at home is even worse. That's a lot of cigerette breaks, and I don't even smoke.  But if I had the wherewithal to buy one of these things, I'd have to start!

You can justify the stops just like Tesla owners do.  "You know, on any long trip you need to stop for a (2 hour) lunch anyway, so an electric car fueling is no different from a gasoline one."  LOL!  You can't make this stuff up.


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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2020, 09:20:57 AM »
I've only a taken brief test drive in an EV (Chevy Bolt).  Never on a bike.

I've read from many, that once a person owns an EV that they don't want to go back to an ICE powered vehicle.  I have to admit, despite the Bolt being a entry vehicle, I was impressed with it, not as much as the new Camaro but I could see myself owning one.  (That new Camaro is just a fantastic drivers' car, however.)
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2020, 09:48:56 AM »
I've ridden a couple Zeros and could see having one for commuter duties. My needs would require only 100 mile range at 80mph, and decent weather protection as I ride in four season temperature ranges and rain not a problem as long as well above freezing. Friday morning my 20 mile commute was mid teens F and dry. This new SR/S looks like getting closer to meeting my needs as a commuter.

As with most motorcyclist, I have several bikes that all have different niches. I will need a long distance sport touring bike for the foreseeable future, and want a variety of less practical fun bikes.

If I commuted in a car, an EV would be at the top of my list, to go along with a gas engine truck to travel to other states and take bikes in the back.

I would be all over a pick up with a "Mr. Fusion" power source.   :thumb:
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Offline Tom H

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2020, 10:38:07 AM »
I had the range explained to me at the dealer. I made an example of riding from Los Angeles to San Diego to see Sea World.

I could ride down without stopping if the bike was fully charged. If I stayed for the day like you normally would and put it on a charger, it would be non stop back. But....If I decided to come right back, I would need the 40 minute charge and then have to stop again for another 40 minute charge. He even mentioned a dealer that would be on the way back that I could charge up at. Let's say you needed a charge at 2am on a trip, I can't remember for sure, but I think it was possible to stop at the dealer to get a charge. Would have to check on that t be sure.

Tom
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2020, 01:43:25 PM »
The test a I read said something about a 95 mile range.  I think the Zero has more range and more power. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 01:44:05 PM by LowRyter »
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2020, 04:13:03 PM »
From the HD web site: On those fast chargers, the Livewire will charge to 80 percent in 40 minutes or require an hour to take on a full charge. Most of the time, riders will probably charge up in their garage, with a cord-set that fits under the seat. It takes between 10 and 11 hours for a full charge on Level 1.

I was close enough.  40 minutes to an hour at a Harley dealer is too long for me.  10 hours at home is even worse. That's a lot of cigerette breaks, and I don't even smoke.  But if I had the wherewithal to buy one of these things, I'd have to start!

You are too funny! 

You are not limited to Harley dealerships.  This is just one of many websites that shows where EV charging stations are located.  Many at Restaurants and Hotels.  https://pluginamerica.org/get-equipped/find-an-ev-charging-station/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ev%20charging%20station%20locator&utm_campaign=US%20Charger%20Locations&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4LOUvtjo5wIVjZ6zCh31pw_EEAAYBCAAEgKt_vD_BwE
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2020, 04:13:59 PM »
And probably destroy the rear tire in 1000 miles. Great way to save money!

Maybe, but me thinks the rear tire is going to wear out from accelerations way more than decelerations.   :evil:
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Offline Motormike

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2020, 05:58:08 PM »

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2020, 06:05:03 PM »
Oh, by the way.  I just spoke with a friend of mine with deep pockets that is interested in a Live Wire.  He went to his local Harley Dealer that has them.  NO more demo rides, was what he got told from the dealer.  The story he got was people have been wrecking and dumping the Live Wires left and right on demo rides because of the acceleration the bike is capable of.  He decided riding it anywhere other than back and forth to work (in other words a known, fixed distance) would result in constant "range anxiety."  His words.

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2020, 06:42:23 PM »
Koolaid much?

Unlike you, I love all bikes.  So yes I drink the guzzi koolaid,  Royal Enfield koolaid,  Euro koolaid,  Asian koolaid,  and American Koolaid. I guess I just see the positive in riding instead of bashing.
If I were only looking for 'bang for the buck', bulletproof, reliable, and a manufacturer who stands behind their product, I would only own Kawasaki.
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2020, 08:53:23 PM »
Our own Moshe Levy had a multi page story in MCN a few years ago about commuting approx 100 miles each way for an entire summer.  He seemed to make it work.
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Offline Tom H

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2020, 10:18:41 PM »
You are too funny! 

You are not limited to Harley dealerships.  This is just one of many websites that shows where EV charging stations are located.  Many at Restaurants and Hotels.  https://pluginamerica.org/get-equipped/find-an-ev-charging-station/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ev%20charging%20station%20locator&utm_campaign=US%20Charger%20Locations&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4LOUvtjo5wIVjZ6zCh31pw_EEAAYBCAAEgKt_vD_BwE

I did not say that you were limited to the HD dealer. I only presented the range info from the dealer and his suggestion on getting it charged. I don't know the HD requirements, are they the same as a car?? Can I stop at the local Mall and plug into the car charger? Would I need an adapter? I don't have these answers.

Tom
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2020, 05:54:58 AM »
I did not say that you were limited to the HD dealer. I only presented the range info from the dealer and his suggestion on getting it charged. I don't know the HD requirements, are they the same as a car?? Can I stop at the local Mall and plug into the car charger? Would I need an adapter? I don't have these answers.

Tom

You don't need an adapter.  The chargers at the Harley dealer are the same as all the other standard fast chargers.
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Offline Tom H

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2020, 11:51:26 AM »
TWA, thank you for the answer. So if you needed to, you could stop anywhere that has a charging station.

One thing I did want to mention. The HD chargers are free, so far, for the HD's.

Since we're on the charging subject. For power tools, if I understand correctly, you want to run the battery all the way down before charging. If you charge when your only half way down, it would end up with less run time. Has that changed?

What I'm getting at is that if you had your battery vehicle fully charged and went out on your errands for the day. Your last stop has a charging station. Your only at 50% charge and you plug in for lets say an hour and get it up to, again lets say 75%. Is that bad for the battery??

Tom
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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2020, 11:54:58 AM »
As I understand it that is not a concern.  Built in conditioners in the charging circuit.  Anything less-like full discharge before full charge would be suicide.
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Offline Bisbonian

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2020, 04:16:51 PM »
TWA, thank you for the answer. So if you needed to, you could stop anywhere that has a charging station.

One thing I did want to mention. The HD chargers are free, so far, for the HD's.

Since we're on the charging subject. For power tools, if I understand correctly, you want to run the battery all the way down before charging. If you charge when your only half way down, it would end up with less run time. Has that changed?

What I'm getting at is that if you had your battery vehicle fully charged and went out on your errands for the day. Your last stop has a charging station. Your only at 50% charge and you plug in for lets say an hour and get it up to, again lets say 75%. Is that bad for the battery??

Tom

At least the Zero plug is the same as the plug on my Prius plug-in and my Chevy Volt. Normally the DC fast charges have an extra couple of prongs but that doesn't stop you from using the standard chargers.

Things have come a long way from power tool batteries. The Chevy battery charges up to about 80% and then discharges to about 20%. We are advised to keep the car plugged in when not using it, I'm sure there is some sort of conditioning going on.
We've been running our plug-in Prius since 2013, Volt is only a few months old but the 60 miles of battery before the engine kicks on is a game changer for me.

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2020, 08:04:04 AM »
Quote
Volt is only a few months old but the 60 miles of battery before the engine kicks on is a game changer for me.

That could work for us, too. I looked *very* hard at the Volt in '12, but decided on the Prius. Our normal run to Indy for groceries, etc. is about 60 miles round trip.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Offline Motormike

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2020, 09:10:20 PM »
Rode the Live Wire at Daytona.  I found it to be fast, quiet, and fun, in an EZ-Go kind of way.  It is a well finished, fully developed motorcycle hampered by a (too) short range and an extremely high price.  Not for me, but I can see the appeal if you have LOTS of disposable income.  I also see the appeal of it's simple operation (no clutch or gears to shift) to new riders. Not that new riders are in a position to drop 30K on a motorcycle.  My riding buddy went totally ga-ga over it and said if they drop the price to $25,000 he'd buy one.  If the day ever comes when I'm too old and feeble to pull in a clutch lever, I might consider electric, but hopefully that day is a long ways off.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 09:15:56 PM by Motormike »

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2020, 05:50:25 AM »
Rode the Live Wire at Daytona.  I found it to be fast, quiet, and fun, in an EZ-Go kind of way.  It is a well finished, fully developed motorcycle hampered by a (too) short range and an extremely high price.  Not for me, but I can see the appeal if you have LOTS of disposable income.  I also see the appeal of it's simple operation (no clutch or gears to shift) to new riders. Not that new riders are in a position to drop 30K on a motorcycle.  My riding buddy went totally ga-ga over it and said if they drop the price to $25,000 he'd buy one.  If the day ever comes when I'm too old and feeble to pull in a clutch lever, I might consider electric, but hopefully that day is a long ways off.

 :thumb:

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2020, 09:25:22 AM »
Rode the Live Wire at Daytona.  I found it to be fast, quiet, and fun, in an EZ-Go kind of way.  It is a well finished, fully developed motorcycle hampered by a (too) short range and an extremely high price.  Not for me, but I can see the appeal if you have LOTS of disposable income.  I also see the appeal of it's simple operation (no clutch or gears to shift) to new riders. Not that new riders are in a position to drop 30K on a motorcycle.  My riding buddy went totally ga-ga over it and said if they drop the price to $25,000 he'd buy one.  If the day ever comes when I'm too old and feeble to pull in a clutch lever, I might consider electric, but hopefully that day is a long ways off.

Did they have them plugged into a charger when not in use?
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Offline Motormike

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2020, 07:39:25 PM »
No, they had a large generator in the Harley 18 wheeler they use for these events, plus several more Live Wire bikes.  They would check the charge on the bikes after a couple of runs, and rotate the bikes out that needed to be charged.  My bike was almost fully charged (about 95%, I think) and I used about 10-12% capacity on the riding loop.  That was flogging it as best I could, with several full-throttle "sling-shots" as long as I could hold it...80 to 90 mph, being in a group ride.  Frankly, I was surprised the range held up as well as it did.  The range indication is too small though, just a narrow bar graph along the bottom of the display.  Hard to read.  Not that I'll own one, but I'd have to figure a way to disable the wheelie control...With no shifting and no real redline to worry about, I bet that thing would be a wheelie king.  The reps present did infer it was a "halo" bike and there were other models planed for the "motor."  Of course, being the cynical old-timer that I am, I merely replied, "That's what they always said about the V-rod engine!"  Time will tell.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 07:50:18 PM by Motormike »

Offline pressureangle

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2020, 10:11:19 AM »
A question that I have pondered is with an IC engine one can use engine braking and lower gear to slow the bike. How does electric bike feel when letting off power? Will it slow down speed or just continue on until gravity slows it?

All electric vehicles suffer (or benefit) from what's called 'flyback voltage'. The motor acts as a generator when the throttle is closed, and that voltage must go somewhere. On the Livewire, and I'll assume any electric motorcycle, they use regenerative braking to absorb flyback voltage, recharge the battery, and give the feeling of 'engine braking' although it's a bit weird because it's rather a steady reversing that's not much related to engine RPM.
So specifically, backing off the throttle feels pretty much the same at speed, but annoyingly severe at very low speeds. (that's subjective, it's not really bad just different).
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Offline Motormike

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Re: [NGC] Test Rode the Livewire, OMG!
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2020, 04:23:49 PM »
All electric vehicles suffer (or benefit) from what's called 'flyback voltage'. The motor acts as a generator when the throttle is closed, and that voltage must go somewhere. On the Livewire, and I'll assume any electric motorcycle, they use regenerative braking to absorb flyback voltage, recharge the battery, and give the feeling of 'engine braking' although it's a bit weird because it's rather a steady reversing that's not much related to engine RPM.
So specifically, backing off the throttle feels pretty much the same at speed, but annoyingly severe at very low speeds. (that's subjective, it's not really bad just different).
I can honestly say, during my short demo ride, I wasn't even aware of the regenerative braking.  I think the amount and setting is adjustable, so who knows what they had it set for.  It didn't try to toss me over the bars when I closed the throttle, nor did it free-wheel like a two-stroke.

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