Author Topic: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q  (Read 587 times)

Online nashopolis

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 90
    • Isle of Printing
1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« on: July 02, 2020, 03:45:23 PM »
Howdy all

Seems I've zapped my Regulator
- as it is no longer keeping the charging voltage to 14.2 (it will go as high as I care to let it 16+)

Looking at a replacement

Looking at two sources and options -  MG Cycle is selling what seems to be the stock unit

DUCATI ENERGIA REGULATOR RECTIFIER GUZZI DUCATI 412809068
PART NUMBER: 37703805
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_161&products_id=1277

And EuroMoto Electric sells their aftermarket version

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edlguz-voltrect.htm

The MG cycle looks plug and play
and the Euromoto looks like it bypasses the harness and will require me fiddling around some

Is one better than the other? One is certainly cheaper! 

any tips on the wiring if I go with the Euro moto

Thanks!

« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 04:05:26 PM by nashopolis »

Offline Vagrant

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1507
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: Stone Charging Q
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 03:54:34 PM »
unfortunately, the word "Stone" means nothing. Guzzi has used it for 20 years on several size engines. Now, what do you have?
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2001 EV, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2020 V85 the fast red one!
L-196, L-197

Online nashopolis

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 90
    • Isle of Printing
Re: 2000 1100 Stone/Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 04:04:59 PM »
ha right you are! 

I always forget if this is a stone or a jackal - but it is apparently a - 2000 1100 EV

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28322
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 04:18:13 PM »
Before you throw it away, try running a dedicated ground wire from the regulator body to a case bolt on the engine. Nothing to lose, and you'll need that if you have to put a new one on there..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 04:18:13 PM »

Offline Vagrant

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1507
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 05:40:02 PM »
Clean the connector with deoxit when u run the new ground. Most likely a filthy connector. I did a new one on my 98 or 2001 but don't remember whose. I doubt u could go wrong with either if it's needed.
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2001 EV, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2020 V85 the fast red one!
L-196, L-197

Online nashopolis

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 90
    • Isle of Printing
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2020, 08:49:39 PM »
Easy to run a ground.  I can do that!  Connections are clean. 

I am still working on my wiring diagram literacy and electrical prowess  - there are certainly  lots of wires to look for and every one  I want to test is buried deep! So more Learning learning learning.

On that subject I canít seem to find a relay / fuse schematic -  anyone have a link to one?

Back the school of life







Offline Gappy

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • StLouis MO
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2020, 08:35:22 AM »
As far as I know, there is no charging relay on the California 1100 models, carbureted or fuel injected according to my wiring diagram. That being said, known battery must be 100% good , very important , regulator ground to frame and spade connector ground must be good, very important and then retest.

To test generator windings disconnect the plug with the 2 yellow wires and set your meter for continuity, I use beeper mode, if it beeps they are good. Some guys get into the ohm numbers but I donít

To check output set the meter to at least 100 - 200 volts  start the bike , at 3000rpm the meter should be reading 40 volts give or take a few if it is higher thatís ok. If that checks out then on to the regulator.

Short of taking the regulator to someone who knows how to test them ,you can isolate the regulator from the rest of the system and any short circuits detected between the aluminum housing and output cables will indicate a defective regulator.

I have had to chase down bad charging components on my airhead and Shovelhead , I kinda got good with this procedure lol. IMO if you are not going to be running a lot of extra electrics on your I would stick with the OEM or any plug and play regulator if it is bad.
2003 Suzuki burgman an650
1994 Moto Guzzi California 1100
1992 BMW k75s
1983 Harley Davidson FLHT
1981 BMW r100rt
1981 Honda 650/4

Offline Joliet Jim

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 5986
  • Justus Esto, Et Non Metue
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2020, 08:54:34 AM »
I know I changed the regulator on my "Original" Stone with I believe the Euro one. I think it was minimal effort. When the Centauro fried the battery the regulator was all over the place, but a cleaning and re-tightening of the mounting screws solved that issue. Unfortunately the Odyssey was toast and the Bubs were slightly stained.
1975 T160 Triumph Trident "Spot"
2002 Cali Stone "Moby Dick"
1998 Centauro "Psycho Chicken"
2003 Buell Blast "Pegasus"

Offline usedtobefast

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 665
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2020, 11:18:48 AM »
Just went through this with my Quota.

I had the same problem, dramatic over charging.  Kiwi-Roy and others made a lot of great suggestions, I did a bunch of testing, in the end I ended up getting the one from MG Cycles, plug and play.

There was a new made in China knock off on eBay for ~$35 but I didn't feel like messing with that. 

Here is that thread:  https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=105248

2017 V7 iii Racer
2017 Griso
2016 Stornello
2000 Red Quota
Want a black/green 1000S big valve :)

Offline Craig in Alabama

  • New Goose
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 87
  • Location: Madison, AL
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2020, 11:58:44 AM »
I used the euromoto EDLGUZ-VoltRect  on my '98 V11EV. Going strong since 2016!
I also got one of the Battery Tender voltage regulators (https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-081-0157-Disconnect-Voltage/dp/B00DJ5KE9A) for peace of mind while riding.

Cheers!
Craig
2018 KTM 390 Duke
98 V11EV

Online nashopolis

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 90
    • Isle of Printing
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2020, 11:19:13 PM »
Thanks to all for your replies.

Just read your saga - usedtobefast - that really helped  I think Iím Finally starting to understand the theory of how this is all supposed to work.

I still get lost in my actual wiring - that was the request for the relay / fuse map (if one is out there).  Iím not sure which one does what without a guide.  Confession - My bike is slightly non standard, I converted it to Lemans-ish style.  I took great pains not to change anything electrically when I did the swap.  Mostly it was slight modifications of mounts like the location of the fuse and relay block to fit behind the new side covers.   

Right now my next task is to get to the connections I need to inspect near the regulator.  All the regulatorís connections appear to live behind a small panel that is held on by the bikeís engine guards which have cap head hex bolts that are seized up.  Trying not to strip those buggers! Not succeeding so far...

I need to order some spare relays and I do have a Euroelectric regulator on order (got a good deal from a friend)

Happy Independence Day!



Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 8996
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2020, 05:30:31 AM »
If you have the diode test function on your multimeter you can measure from each yellow wire to the red wires, it should read around 0.5 to 0.6 Volts. Sometimes overcharging melts the leads off the internal diodes (upper left)
You can see where the lead has been arcing away, I actually got a couple more years out of this one by soldering the leads back on

Inspect the bullet connectors, if there is any discolouration that's a sign of a loose contact, I often suggest cutting them off and use butt splices.
I believe overcharging is due to a bad Voltage reference, one test you can do is run a wire from the battery and wrap it around the male pin of the two way connector to bypass the headlight relay. You can't leave it that way because the regulator will draw about 15 milliamps but its a trick I have used a couple of times to get me home when the charging failed on a trip.
Yes, ground the regulator case properly, it probably has a wimpy black wire all the way back to the battery, thats not adequate a wire to the engine and back through the main ground is far better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to the Relay/fuse map, I have one for the relays under the RH side cover if thats where yours are. This was drawn for a 98 EV with the P8 ECU

The order of the relays might not be the same on all bikes, the wire colours should help you sort that out.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 06:11:39 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Online nashopolis

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 90
    • Isle of Printing
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2020, 04:08:46 PM »
Thanks Kiwi_Roy for the tips and tricks and relay map! 

if anyone else out there is reading this for some insight like I do for my own stuff when diagnosing problems via the internet. 

I check as many leads as I could and ran the bike without the head light attached (I think that is supposed to help determine resistance problems in the voltage reference wire if I understand things correctly)

Still had runaway charging - So I ended ordering a new EURO motoelectric Regulator via a buddy for a good price -

here's the model https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edlguz-voltrect.htm

Installation was not exactly plug and play but close.  It mounts in the same spot.  I had to change the Alternator connection plugs to fit the leads that  comes from the Alternator and lengthen the Positive lead to the battery.  I went ahead and ran the ground to the battery as well.  Otherwise it was a very simple swap.  Testing the charging now gives me expected range of voltage.    So it''s back together to do some road testing (just in time for the balmy 90 degree weather! hooray!)

I'm guessing I fried the Regulator previously when I cooked a ground wire which wasn't grounded. 

Learned a few things along the way about myself and moto guzzi electronics - thanks to all. 

I'm sure I can find it by searching but
does anyone have the relay guy's contact info - I'm going to go ahead and pick up some spares while I'm thinking about it.

stay cool stay  healthy out there!



Online pehayes

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4117
    • Falcone Touring
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2020, 04:53:13 PM »
I'm sure I can find it by searching but
does anyone have the relay guy's contact info - I'm going to go ahead and pick up some spares while I'm thinking about it.

First link on this page:

http://www.dpguzzi.com/

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Offline kingoffleece

  • SplitWeight(tm) seat covers
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3425
  • Rated 5 STARS Motorcycle Consumer News
    • King of Fleece LLC SplitWeight(tm) seat covers
  • Location: Western New York
Re: 1100 Stone / Jackal Charging Q
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2020, 06:30:28 PM »
Just an FYI:
I spoke with Odyssey tech Friday about 2001 Jackal charging voltage.  He said that 14.1 or .2 will work but not well.  recommended the bike always be connected to the correct charger for a dry cell battery (I use Ctek 7000 series as recommended).  He strongly suggests we use a higher output.  I have a 14.4 to.8 to replace the 14.1 currently on the bike.  Further, it was mentioned that the full life of the battery can be compromised by too low a voltage during running the machine and letting the battery see the higher voltage will result in a greatly extended service life.
SplitWeight(tm) seat covers. A King of Fleece LLC product.

 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here