HD doens't want electric motorcycles

[Kremmen]

Everyone is getting amped up over this, the IC engine is sick and it’s terminal. In the future, the bright sparks will go electric or take the bus.
No need to be negative about the concept when the future is so positive, resistance is futile, there is massive potential in the concept.
If you conduct a survey, you might get a shock at how ready the public is for these. Initial reluctance is just one single phase in the love hate relationship that these things are at the centre of.
Once you throw the switch and take one ohm, you and the bike will become fused and you’ll wonder why you didn’t charge in and get one sooner...
I saw an electric trials bike that effortlessly volted over a huge bridge in Wheatstone near where I live.
A petrol bike would have fallen flat, charge on in an make enquiries.. hurry last days, stocks are limited...!
The potential difference is astonishing...

Holy cow, Huzo. That was electrifying. I think you scored every single pun bar that one. Greedy, TBH! 

[Alfetta]

i have only one issue with electric vehicles, they MUST run on electricity...while Internal combustion engines can run on a variety of fuels. but due to my age, this wont be much of a worry for me, however my grandkids will have to suffer our choices today. and using some basic logic, i see the answer as a mix....

population keep growing as an exponent, cities will get denser, perfect environment for short range EV, probably community owned cars pooled about town.. (yuck)
rural areas with long distance needs and farm tools working massive acreages will still use IC.
rural  peeps "popping" into town will most likely be required to park the "dirty" truck at the edge of town, and jump into a "clean" social EV...(eeeewww)

then a few decades later, it will come out that the lithium mines are poisoning our environment, and battery recycling is a "dirty" process, and the KVA taxes have gotten out of hand, so some genius has developed a self propelled device and it's ready to market...!

[rschrum]

Research of Lithium and Cobalt mining was shocking!

[blackcat]

Research of Lithium and Cobalt mining was shocking!

Yes, the good and bad of both sources of fuel.

"Lithium is used in batteries for electric cars, cellphones, computers and other electric devices, as well as power-grid storage systems, because it’s light and highly conductive. Most lithium isn’t mined. More than 95 per cent comes from pumping underground brine into pans, allowing the liquid to evaporate and separating out the lithium using electrolysis.

Any real comparison between oilsands and lithium batteries shows that oilsands products, from extracting and processing to transporting and burning, are by far the most destructive. Extraction and production destroy habitat, pollute air, land and water and produce greenhouse gas emissions. Burning the fuels causes toxic pollution and wreaks havoc with Earth’s climate.

Does that mean batteries are environmentally benign? No. All energy sources and technologies have some environmental impact — one reason energy conservation is crucial. A 2010 study comparing the environmental impacts of electric cars to internal combustion vehicles found the latter are far more damaging, taking into account global warming potential, cumulative energy demand and resource depletion. Battery components, including lithium, can also be recycled, and used electric car batteries can be repurposed to store energy for homes, buildings and power grids."
https://davidsuzuki.org/story/renewable-energy-isnt-perfect-far-better-fossil-fuels/

And then there is this:
"The Deepwater Horizon oil spill was an industrial disaster that began on 20 April 2010, in the Gulf of Mexico on the BP-operated Macondo Prospect, considered to be the largest marine oil spill in the history of the petroleum industry and estimated to be 8 to 31 percent larger in volume than the previous largest, the Ixtoc I oil spill, also in the Gulf of Mexico. The U.S. federal government estimated the total discharge at 4.9 million barrels (210 million US gal; 780,000 m3).After several failed efforts to contain the flow, the well was declared sealed on 19 September 2010. Reports in early 2012 indicated that the well site was still leaking. The Deepwater Horizon oil spill is regarded as one of the largest environmental disasters in American history."

[bobrebos]

Well, after this pipeline hacking by the russian criminal group, and being out of gasoline down here in Tennessee/Georgia areas, electric bikes dont sound so bad to me.....

[Alfetta]

Well, after this pipeline hacking by the russian criminal group, and being out of gasoline down here in Tennessee/Georgia areas, electric bikes dont sound so bad to me.....

and how does that happen ??? who didn't do their job ??? is there an agenda ???
oops, did i say that out loud ?

[blackcat]

and how does that happen ??? who didn't do their job ??? is there an agenda ???
oops, did i say that out loud ?

Criminals have been doing this for awhile and Colonial Pipeline wasn't sufficiently protecting their computer network.

Money was the agenda.

[oldbike54]

I have no PHD on this subject or as far as that goes in any subjects. However in most cases common sense does me well.
You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken $#|+ therefore don’t except much of anything other than simply thinks like flashlights, weed eaters,etc, to run efficiently on battery power. Especially anything which weighs as much as a ton.

 It's all proportional Dan , why would a 100 HP brushless electric motor be any less efficient per gram of weight than a .5 HP motor ?

 Dusty

[s1120]

So, here is the stupid question of the day. Untill the batteries get better I can't believe a simple 4 stroke 30-50CC trimmer motor like Stihl sells couldn't spin an alternator to re-charge the batteries on an EV bike. Sure it won't be a full blown EV but good enough. Tops with a gallon of gas would be 15-18 LBS.

Kind of the concept of a plugin hybrid..  I think the concept is a great one, and one that I expect to see much more in the future.. might be a bit of extra complexity on a motorcycle though.

[Tusayan]

It's all proportional Dan , why would a 100 HP brushless electric motor be any less efficient per gram of weight than a .5 HP motor ?

Dusty

It's nothing to do with scaling the motor or efficiency.  The power and energy requirement does not scale linearly with the size of the vehicle, it tends to scale with the weight of the vehicle, which scales as the cube:  A vehicle twice the size takes eight times the power because its eight times heavier.  The battery weight then increases with the power x time.

[LowRyter]

Shocking. 

[LowRyter]

I've been riding an EV for years:




V11 EV

[nc43bsa]

I've been riding an EV for years:




V11 EV

I was waiting for someone to point that out.   

[oldbike54]

It's nothing to do with scaling the motor or efficiency.  The power and energy requirement does not scale linearly with the size of the vehicle, it tends to scale with the weight of the vehicle, which scales as the cube:  A vehicle twice the size takes eight times the power because its eight times heavier.  The battery weight then increases with the power x time.

 Yes ... and ?

 Dusty

[Tusayan]

Scaling up propulsion with vehicle size places a highly nonproportional burden on propulsion power density.   What is easy for a very small vehicle becomes very difficult for a larger vehicle.  This is the basics, if you can't understand it I'd suggest further study might be a good idea 

[oldbike54]

Scaling up propulsion with vehicle size places a highly nonproportional burden on propulsion power density.   What is easy for a very small vehicle becomes very difficult for a larger vehicle.  This is the basics, if you can't understand it I'd suggest further study might be a good idea 

 Actually I've been studying this since about 1980 , no one said this was gonna be easy , neither was developing the modern IC engine . Tesla seems to have solved at least some of the problems , maybe you could learn from their engineers , dunno .

 

 Dusty

[Tusayan]

I have Tesla engineers working for me, actually    Or they were before we cherry picked them.

Scaling issues are why electric model airplanes climb at 45 degrees with huge excess power, but we're having this discussion about larger applications.  Nothing in scaling propulsion is directly proportional to size, it gets more difficult with increased size. 

[inditx]

How 'bout those Zero EV’s?
Sorry couldn’t resist, I’ll let myself out.
inditx

[lucky phil]

I've been riding an EV for years:




V11 EV

Guzzi V11 EV. EV designation was for "Environmental Vandal" 

Ciao

[LowRyter]

Guzzi V11 EV. EV designation was for "Environmental Vandal" 

Ciao

So you know how rich mine runs.   

[Gliderjohn]

For what it is worth the latest issue of Consumer Reports says concerning the current state of the art (referring to cars but should apply to bikes)...
The batteries will lose about 5% of their capacity per year so in five years you are down 25%. Concerning reliability, they are saying the batteries will not have any sudden failures anymore often than current IC engines do nor cost anymore to replace than a IC engine.
Remember we do not have to wait for only the batteries to get better and more efficient but the motors will too.  It will also make life much less complicated for things that are not always used regularly like boats, airplanes, lawn equipment and motorcycles. I think exciting times are a coming.
GliderJohn

[Ncdan]

It's nothing to do with scaling the motor or efficiency.  The power and energy requirement does not scale linearly with the size of the vehicle, it tends to scale with the weight of the vehicle, which scales as the cube:  A vehicle twice the size takes eight times the power because its eight times heavier.  The battery weight then increases with the power x time.

Yep, just like common sense dictates👍
Thank you

[oldbike54]

 Odd isn't it , there are thousands of Teslas going about their intended function every day .

 Dusty

[Ncdan]

Odd isn't it , there are thousands of Teslas going about their intended function every day .

 Dusty

I can see your point however is Tesla’s the exception to the rule and are there still issues for the owners?

[oldbike54]

I can see your point however is Tesla’s the exception to the rule and are there still issues for the owners?

 Tesla is proof of concept . Dan , the tankless water heater on your cabin , do you know how many plumbers have swore and be damned they don't
work ? "Why would anyone want one of those contraptions when a perfectly good old style tank is available?" . Yeah , I have been hearing that for years, meanwhile there are at least 20 I have installed on remodels that have been working wonderfully , some for 20 years now . An engineer even told me they don't work , and by gawd he should know , being an engineer and all .

 See the issue , we have actual working examples of the technology , right in front of our eyes , and yet some would have you believe it is an impossibility . Do we have a ways to go , well sure , will we get there , betting yes .

 Dusty

[Turin]

I loffset my carbon footprint by cutting out red meat.

If you purchase an EV for environmental reasons,  you have to consider the source of electricity. 
If your electricity comes from a coal fire power plant, then what's the point ?
If you electricity comes from wind turbines, solar, etc, then maybe your doing some good.
I'm interested in the speed and possible performance applications with electric bikes.

https://lightningmotorcycle.com/product/specifications/

[twowheeladdict]

I was talking to some motorcycle fans at our local shopping mall vintage motorcycle display a couple weeks back, one of them told me her brother in law just bought a brand new Livewire from one of the local HD dealerships for about 3/5ths the MSRP. With this news that HD is dropping the Livewire the blow out sale price makes sense.

I need to start looking.  $18k is more in the competitive price range for these bikes. 

[Motormike]

"Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated." 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/harley-davidson-launches-all-electric-motorcycle-brand-livewire-2021-05-10/

[bad Chad]

There have been thousands of electirc subs, for over a century, in fact there are still hundreds in use around the world.   They are hybrids, charged by IC, but they seem to work very dam well.

[Joliet Jim]

when an electric truck can pull a 15000lb trailer 400 miles and then refill in 15 minutes and go another 400 miles, I'll be first in line