Author Topic: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone  (Read 2365 times)

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2022, 04:35:20 PM »
I'm not sure if you're talking about an entire garmin nav system (receiver and head) or just the receiver.  I'm talking about just the receiver connected to a tablet or computer, running some nav software, like Navtrek, Rosepoint, etc.  Some receivers run a proprietary language, and some speak NMEA XXX, which would be industry standard.

A GPS is just a signal receiver.  It's not a real fancy device unless you need 0.01-meter accuracy.  GPS signal is simply a continuous string of lat/lon data. It's actually readable text.  You can direct the output to screen and watch it.  It combines the signals from as many satillites as it can find to overtriangulate your position.  The more satillites it can find, the more accurate it is.

On the boats we'd mount a receiver (tiny mushroom or puck-looking thing) up in the rigging and run USB down to a standard windows laptop or tablet.  The nav software sees the receiver and uses its data to plot a position on a chart.  If you've got a garmin mushroom (or puck) and it talks over USB using the standard language, there's a very good chance that it will work this way.  I've gotten pretty good marine results with rather inexpensive, generic receivers.  I get good signal in cars too, even with the receiver sitting on the floor.

Can't you do the same thing with your cell phone?
John L 
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2022, 05:56:59 PM »
OK, from some of the photos posted here, I know some of you pursue each of the two alternate options: do you use a dedicated navigation device (e.g., TomTom), or just the mapping program on your cell phone? And why? Thanks.

I ran COPILOT GPS program on an older waterproof Android phone for years, and bought the Tom-Tom last year, mainly for the ability to plot my route on the computer and send to the device. I really like the Tom-Tom and it's wireless connection to the computer. I can leave it on the bike in the garage, plot my route and send to the unit from the couch. Is also easy to load new waypoints or routes when on the road with my small laptop, plot routes from the unit itself, manage multimedia and a bunch of other things. I grew tired of the old cell phone route, even when I used my 'good' new phone as a hotspot and tried to navigate with google maps.

I now just use that phone for music and for the Moto Guzzi Program and module while on the Stornello. It was hard to use it for all 3 things when on the Stornello.

The Tom-Tom was my first 'real' GPS unit on a motorcycle. I did try to use an old car based Garmin, but the Phone Nav was much better. Very happy I made the decision, and it swaps between al my bikes easily with a Ram mount.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 07:13:03 PM by Bulldog9 »
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Offline Caffeineo

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2022, 06:09:06 PM »
I'm not sure if you're talking about an entire garmin nav system (receiver and head) or just the receiver.  I'm talking about just the receiver connected to a tablet or computer, running some nav software, like Navtrek, Rosepoint, etc.  Some receivers run a proprietary language, and some speak NMEA XXX, which would be industry standard.

A GPS is just a signal receiver.  It's not a real fancy device unless you need 0.01-meter accuracy.  GPS signal is simply a continuous string of lat/lon data. It's actually readable text.  You can direct the output to screen and watch it.  It combines the signals from as many satillites as it can find to overtriangulate your position.  The more satillites it can find, the more accurate it is.

On the boats we'd mount a receiver (tiny mushroom or puck-looking thing) up in the rigging and run USB down to a standard windows laptop or tablet.  The nav software sees the receiver and uses its data to plot a position on a chart.  If you've got a garmin mushroom (or puck) and it talks over USB using the standard language, there's a very good chance that it will work this way.  I've gotten pretty good marine results with rather inexpensive, generic receivers.  I get good signal in cars too, even with the receiver sitting on the floor.

WOW. Thanks for the detailed reply. Think I'll just stick to the Garmin and stop to break out my readers when I need to see it well. ;)
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2022, 07:58:40 PM »
My Verizon service iPhones are useless in some rural areas of western and northern WI.  If I'm not on Google Maps in advance, good luck making the connection.

3...2...1...Bingo, we have another winner.  :rolleyes:

It still amazes me the number of people that think a phone needs cell service for the GPS to work.

Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2022, 07:58:40 PM »

Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2022, 10:40:09 PM »
I found Garmin units to be too fragile. And too expensive to have them break all of the time.
I also like the numerous app/map options on a smartphone.
I have used nothing but the smartphone for over 10 years now. My broke GPS units are on a shelf.


Queue an idiot that thinks a smartphone does not work where there is no cell service in 3...2...1.... :boozing:

My Zumo 660 has been good for 300,000 miles.  Mostly do custom routes so I chose the roads I want to ride instead of the GPS or smart phone choosing the roads.

The smartphone is not going to provide traffic information where there is no cell service and you have to think ahead and download offline maps for the area you want to ride in which takes up memory on the phone.  Oh and a smartphone doesn't work as a smartphone without cell service or WiFi.  It will work as a camera, and run some offline programs, but that is about it.  They are designed to be connected. 
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Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2022, 11:57:32 PM »

The smartphone is not going to provide traffic information where there is no cell service and you have to think ahead and download offline maps for the area you want to ride in which takes up memory on the phone.  Oh and a smartphone doesn't work as a smartphone without cell service or WiFi.  It will work as a camera, and run some offline programs, but that is about it.  They are designed to be connected.

With my Android phone, with downloaded Google "offline" maps, with the phone in airplane mode (so no WiFi or cell service), I can look up hotels, gas stations, restaurants, pick a place to go, route there, etc using Google Maps.

I can't make a phone call, or reserve a room in a hotel, but all the GPS functions work. 

But I have had issues venturing into an area that I did not have the offline map for ... then it is useless (with no cell service).
 
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Offline tris

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2022, 07:31:58 AM »
Personally I prefer a cheap second hand E-bay TomTom in a water proof case used sound off

If it comes off the bike I loose 15 quid rather than 4 or 5 hundred for the bike specific sat nav or phone
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2022, 08:17:53 AM »
The smartphone is not going to provide traffic information where there is no cell service and you have to think ahead and download offline maps for the area you want to ride in which takes up memory on the phone.

I'm not sure what you are saying. NOTHING will provide traffic info without a data connection.

And a map of the entire US with POIs is about 4GB. I have a few apps with most of the US on my phone, which fits easily, so I can go about anywhere without planning ahead.

BTW, the traffic info thing (using Waze) has saved me many hours, possibly days, of just sitting in highway traffic. A great thing to have.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2022, 09:15:08 AM »
With my Android phone, with downloaded Google "offline" maps, with the phone in airplane mode (so no WiFi or cell service), I can look up hotels, gas stations, restaurants, pick a place to go, route there, etc using Google Maps.

I can't make a phone call, or reserve a room in a hotel, but all the GPS functions work. 

But I have had issues venturing into an area that I did not have the offline map for ... then it is useless (with no cell service).
 

You like what you like, I like what I like.  I like having my phone on my person.  One of the main reasons I like having my phone on my person is a story I read many years ago where a rider went wide on a turn and down an embankment.  He was injured and couldn't be seen from the road.  He had to drag himself to the bike to get to the cell phone to call for help. 

If/when my Garmin Zumo 660 ever dies I'm not sure what I will do.  Many years ago when I bought it we were not using smart phones.

Like I said in my first post, I use the GPS, paper maps, and the smart phone.
Paper maps give me a general view of where I am and the surrounding areas without having to  fuss around on the phone or GPS zooming out and losing too much detail, or sliding the screen around.
The Smart Phone allows me to look things up quickly and conveniently when I have cell coverage.
The GPS allows me to create custom routes to where I ride on the exact roads i want to ride on, or I can enter in the location of many different Historic Markers in random order and tell it to create an optimum route to all the Historic Markers and it will. 
I'm used to all of it and it works for me. 

I'm not saying my way is better than your way.  I'm saying it works for me, and nothing you post is going to convince me to change unless my GPS dies, or I dump the smart phone when I retire.   
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Offline 9fingers

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2022, 12:50:01 PM »
I've been using the ToM Tom Rider 550 for about 2 years and love it. Every now and then they have a special on them and I paid $240 which was a total bargain. I think it is $400 now.
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Offline PJPR01

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2022, 01:30:58 PM »
Years of using a TomTom, also subscribe to the theory of keeping my valuables on me and not on the bike.  There are good deals as mentioned above from time to time of brand new TomToms on EBay for half price.  Easy enough to connect to the already provided hot switch (green /black ) available on the Guzzi…plus they are glove friendly, water proof and heat proof.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 01:32:16 PM by PJPR01 »
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Offline egschade

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2022, 10:27:02 AM »
I've been using my cellphone and up to now it has served me well, only crapping out once due to overheating. However I often ride solo and have a growing concern of being separated from my phone.

I'm leaning towards a Garmin Zumo XT. Head to head vs. the TomTom 550 is seems to be an overall better tool. I especially like the Adventurous Routing option to include unpaved roads.

Speaking of possible accidents, is anyone using a crash detection/reporting device or app for Android? I started looking but it seems like limited options and performance.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 11:34:07 AM by egschade »
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Offline AJ Huff

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2022, 11:40:17 AM »


Speaking of possible accidents, is anyone using a crash detection/reporting device or app for Android? I started looking but it seems like limited options and performance.

Our family has Life360 installed on all of our phones. It has crash detection. I have no idea if it works. No one has crashed yet to know. :wink:

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Offline Motormike

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2022, 08:03:44 AM »
The thing I dislike most about phone navigation is you can't (easily) use the touch-screen with a glove on.  Having to pull off a glove every time you want to look at something on the phone is a royal PITA.  I bought a pair of expensive KLIM gloves that were touted as "touch screen phone friendly" with some magic threads on the index finger.  Nope! Big waste of money.  I use RidewithGPS as my course routing app on my computer.  I can then convert it into a GPX file for the Garmin.  A dedicated GPS will always be my primary navigation device, with a phone as a back up. 

Offline Aaron D.

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2022, 09:13:23 AM »
Funny, I leave my phone in my pocket, say Hey Google and tell it to take me wherever. I get voice instructions through my Sena unit.

Online tommy2cyl

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2022, 10:57:46 AM »
As I mentioned in an earlier post a few days ago, this is a timely thread for me and I have really enjoyed the wealth of knowledge posted here to add to my research. My choices are the Zumo XT, Tom Tom 550 and the BeeLine Moto.  Having used my phone in the past I have decided I want to keep that on my person and not risk loss or damage to the iPhone and access to it if I "unexpectedly" become separated from the bike.   Using an older (cheaper) phone was an option I hadn't considered. All these have their pros and cons and everybody has their own criteria what is and isn't essential.  After much targeted thought and countless YouTube videos I have consolidated what I want out of this device, and my choice is the BeeLine Moto.   First and foremost I want simplicity.
I want to know when I turn and enough lead time for that turn. Easily with a quick glance.  I want to either have a designated route mode or use the compass mode and explore with the arrow always adjusting & directing me to my end point.  I don't require audio input.  I don't need topo views and birds eye views.  I want to pay attention to my actual ride and not keep referencing a "large, bright, easy to read in any daylight touch sensitive screen."  Like I said, everybody is different.  After watching a Brit named Henry Crew give a positive review going around the world with one, then it will certainly suffice for my needs.  If I need more info on route detail, gas, food & lodging my iPhone is ready and waiting.  I texted BeeLine Moto in England to get more info and I got not one but three follow up texts within a day.  I am comfortable with the upgrades they have made in company & product in the last 3 years and I am gonna give it a go. 

Online Anomaly

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2022, 01:50:43 PM »
tommy....

Very interested in your choice (thanks for posting). But.... wait, now you need TWO devices? Onboard and charging (or draining charge)? Please post back after you have had some time/experience with the Bee. Please, thanks.
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Online tommy2cyl

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2022, 02:35:35 PM »
The BeeLine holds a charge for 30 hours and can be charged with the provided USB cord.  Your iPhone, once the app is connected via Bluetooth to the BeeLine
can then be placed in Airplane mode which conserves battery.  So the phone only has to be charged at the end of the day.  You could also charge the phone via USB on the bike with the phone in the tank bag, but again, it is no longer on your person which I am trying to avoid.  I would strongly urge you to check out the multiple YouTube videos available.  Both the BeeLine company videos on set up and the other guy I referenced (Crew) are quite good.  There a few negative reviews, but I think some of the issues have been resolved with upgraded software.  I also like the ease with which you can remove the unit and take it in for the night for security or transfer to another motorcycle.  The unit comes in black plastic, or Gunmetal gray or aluminum.  At first I thought I would go with the Gunmetal gray metal (the metal ones cost $50.00 more) just because I thought it might be more substantial.  But they are all rated equal on dust and waterproof, and for me, having less mass might actually be better.  I ride a V 85 so it will fit that type of bike well.  If I had more of a cruiser or custom bike I might opt for the metal choices.  The unit is pretty versatile.  Check out the videos.

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2022, 06:46:52 PM »
The thing I dislike most about phone navigation is you can't (easily) use the touch-screen with a glove on.  Having to pull off a glove every time you want to look at something on the phone is a royal PITA.  I bought a pair of expensive KLIM gloves that were touted as "touch screen phone friendly" with some magic threads on the index finger.  Nope! Big waste of money.  I use RidewithGPS as my course routing app on my computer.  I can then convert it into a GPX file for the Garmin.  A dedicated GPS will always be my primary navigation device, with a phone as a back up.

The GPX will import to the phone and display on a Beeline.   I've not mastered GPX or a map maker program.  Is RidewithGPS free?  Can I use it on my computer?
John L 
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Offline Canuck750

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2022, 08:05:55 PM »
I don’t use GPS much in North America but for Europe the Nav in my BMW K1600 is a game changer. Trying to navigate back roads and city centres in unfamiliar countries can be difficult at best without a good GPS. The in dash Nav provides great road maps, calculates fastest, scenic, no-tolls etc. 
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Offline Motormike

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2022, 12:08:39 PM »
The GPX will import to the phone and display on a Beeline.   I've not mastered GPX or a map maker program.  Is RidewithGPS free?  Can I use it on my computer?
The basic version of RidewithGPS is free.  For advanced routing features, you pay a subscription, but I used it for years free before deciding to subscribe.  I prefer it that much.  It started as a bicycle routing app.  For me at least, it is far and away the easiest route planner to use.  I've fooled around with most of them.  The developer is pretty accessible too.  I sent him an email with a question I had about the program and he answered me straight away. 

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Re: Dedicated GPS/nav device vs cell phone
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2022, 07:45:15 AM »
I build routes on google maps and then use the google maps app on my iphone.

I am too much of a tech neophyte for anything else.

For a while I tried to follow along with the GPS discussions at ADV but these people are far too advanced for me.
 
I had a TomTom Rider for a while, god what an annoying piece of crap that was. Crashed w/ broken ribs, stranded, lost, cold, in the rain, flat tire, waiting on tow truck, gear stolen at a trailhead and riding home bare foot....  I have NEVER EVER EVER been as frustrated on a motorcycle trip as I was when trying to use a TomTom Rider GPS.  If I haddn't paid a couple hundred bucks for the thing I would have chucked it in the woods on at least 3 occasions.  I tried with that thing for a month, and then sold it on ebay eventually.

I carry a Rand McNally Gazetteer for NC in my top box and a cell phone in a vibration-damping  holder on my handle bar.  I seem to get anywhere I wanna go.
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