ZERO electric motorcycles starting to get practical

[cruzziguzzi]

That is righteously cool but, needs a headlight.

I think the anachronism of a carbide headlamp would so rock on that one.




Todd.

[Testarossa]

If you look closely at the left clip-on, you'll see an LED bicycle headlamp. But a carbide light (or acetylene!) would be cool.

[DaSwami]

Never rode one but I imagine the experience is like riding a bike without having to pedal, only faster....no thanks. 

[rocker59]

Seth, what kind of speed and range did you have on that bike?

[Triple Jim]

That bike seems amazing not just from straight line performance but range as well. I winder what a lesser performance motor would draw from the same batteries and what that might do to extending the range? Surely 150hp or even 125 HP would be more than enough.

Using a smaller motor wouldn't automatically increase range.  The efficiency of the motors doesn't change much with size, within that power range.  The power output is mostly a function of the motor controller, so programming it for a maximum of 125 hp would do what you're suggesting, and increase range a little, assuming the rider would occasionally use the maximum controller output.  Another way would be for the rider to avoid using full power.

I have a sort of deck boat I built a few years ago, with an outboard motor I converted to electric.  The motor itself is capable of around 20 hp, but in that boat, anything more than about four or five hp just makes a bigger wake without gaining any significant speed.  So I programmed the controller for a 4 hp maximum, and have decent range.

[jas67]

I think they'll get over the 200 mile endurance mark pretty soon and that puts them into the range of many bikes with a full tank of fuel.
......
I'm starting to see more and more electric vehicle charging stations, even in places away from the cities.

The difference is a small fuel tank can be refilled in minutes.   Your riding buddies aren't going to wait the 3-6 hours it takes for your bike to charge.

Short trips are bad for conventional motorcycles.  Electric bikes don't care.

For this reason, if they were a lot less money, I'd love ot have one for running errands.     For now, I use a Vepsa 250 for that.   It's 250cc water cooled motor gets up to operating temp pretty quickly.

I think electric bikes will be great commuting vehicles though.

As for maintenance, tires, brakes, and periodic belt replacement or chain maintenance.

Considering that many people don't have the skills for an oil change, much less a valve adjustment, the lower servicing costs of an electric bike may make the higher price worth it to those who can't or won't do their own work.    This is, provided that the range fits their use.

[jas67]

Electric cars and motorcycles will not be mainstream until they can beat the performance, economy, & maintenance of the existing technology.  It may happen someday, but that's not today.  It's not tomorrow, or next year.  Without the subsidies, the electric car/bike industry wouldn't even be where it is today.

I love the idea of an electric car or motorcycle for commuting and trips to the corner store.  But the economics of owning multiple vehicles for multiple jobs doesn't make sense for the broader market.  Having to keep an internal combustion car or motorcycle for longer trips means that the electric ones will remain toys and curiosities, except maybe for people in large metros who don't really use a personal car for travel.

I think for your typical two-car (or truck, or SUV, etc) household one electric, and one internal combustion (or hybrid) vehicle makes a lot of sense.     Even the meager range of the first generation Nissan Leaf would be good enough for my 30 mile round trip commute, and of course for my wife's 16 mile round trip commute.    It would be a much better advantage on her commute, as she has a lot of stop and go, where electrics and hybrids benefit form regenerative braking.   By only having one all-electric, and one ICE vehicle, there is still one ICE vehicle for when the range is needed.

Plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt are a good compromise, since they could do up to a 40 mile commute all week long without even starting the IC engine, but, yet have the convenience of topping off the fuel tank quickly on road trips.

I do think that governments will continue to subsidize electric vehicles, and even penalize ICE vehicles (using the additional taxes and fees to pay the EV  subsidies).    They have too, and because there are no real short term monetary benefits to EV's, the changeover won't happen without them.  Climate change and real.    Changing a large portion of vehicles to EV's will allow more use of renewable energy to be used for transportation.

I think another huge potential for utilization of renewable energy would be to shift long distance freight back to rail from trucks.     Electric rail is mature technology, and doesn't require batteries, and all the environmental impacts of the manufacturing, and eventual recycling and disposal of them.    Plus, releiving our highways of a major portion of the heavy truck traffic would save them a lot of wear and tear.

[Testarossa]

Seth, what kind of speed and range did you have on that bike?

Mike, the rpm limit of the motor limits me to 60mph with this gearing. And the batteries carry only 18 amp-hours, so range is just 12 miles in normal 30mph traffic (60 mph gets me about 4 miles).

Specs and build process here: http://www.evalbum.com/2076   This is a pretty cool website. Poke around and you'll find some neat conversions, many done dirt cheap (cheap means low range, though). For instance: http://www.evalbum.com/5125

The most practical cheap EVs these days are the mass-produced electric scooters from China. 35 mph and up to 50 mile range for local errands and short commutes. Performance equivalent to a 50cc 2-stroke.

[canuguzzi]

The difference is a small fuel tank can be refilled in minutes.   Your riding buddies aren't going to wait the 3-6 hours it takes for your bike to charge.

For this reason, if they were a lot less money, I'd love ot have one for running errands.     For now, I use a Vepsa 250 for that.   It's 250cc water cooled motor gets up to operating temp pretty quickly.

I think electric bikes will be great commuting vehicles though.

As for maintenance, tires, brakes, and periodic belt replacement or chain maintenance.

Considering that many people don't have the skills for an oil change, much less a valve adjustment, the lower servicing costs of an electric bike may make the higher price worth it to those who can't or won't do their own work.    This is, provided that the range fits their use.

True, groups might not wait 3-6 hours but according to recent threads on the topic, most Guzzi riders prefer to ride alone anyway.

The rep at Zero for example, said that the biggest hurdle they face is not battery capacity, they have space for extra batteries and even without getting into the 500 pound weight class, could make a bike with far more range. As you pointed out, charging is the issue but in the near future, what happened with battery density will happen with chargers.

In other words, the super fast chargers are around the corner and recharge times will go from hours to minutes. Even a 30 minute charge time is probably manageable. Ride for 200 miles and then a lot of people are ready for a break anyway.

Right now they could make a 300 mile e-bike but since the charging times are longer there isn't much benefit. New fast chargers will solve that. Still, just heading out for a 1000 mile tour wouldn't be easy unless you broke it up into 250 mile chunks. The question is, does that work or is the long haul rides the primary style of riding you do?

For some, electric bikes might not ever fill their needs. Nothing wrong with that.

[jas67]

In other words, the super fast chargers are around the corner and recharge times will go from hours to minutes. Even a 30 minute charge time is probably manageable. Ride for 200 miles and then a lot of people are ready for a break anyway.

Charge time has a lot to do with battery chemistry, and how quickly a battery can take a charge without degrading it.

Right now they could make a 300 mile e-bike but since the charging times are longer there isn't much benefit. New fast chargers will solve that. Still, just heading out for a 1000 mile tour wouldn't be easy unless you broke it up into 250 mile chunks. The question is, does that work or is the long haul rides the primary style of riding you do?

300 mile range would definitely be a benefit, even if the charging time is longer.   You could then easily ride a 250 mile day with reserve without having to charge.   Plus, you could do a partial charge along the way, for the same period of time as a shorter range E-bike to get the same extension of range.

[sturgeon]

If anyone is interested, Aerostich is currently doing a winter riding test of the Zero along with some of their gear ...

http://www.aerostich.com/zbz

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Tesla has a negative cash flow, and does not expect to have a positive one until 2020 -  If they were not being propped up with tax money, and lots of it, they would have gone bust already.

hmm sounds like the aerospace, medical research/pharma, and mining/oil drilling industries