Fork Seals; New Bike; Am I being unreasonable?

[MGPilot]

A front fork seal has been leaking on my 2015 Norge; was purchased new in March of 2016; it now has 736 miles on it. I think it should be fixed under warranty. The shop expects Moto Guzzi to say, "Just live with it."  I've ridden on and off since 1978; Honda/BMW's/now Moto Guzzi. Never had this issue before and certainly don't expect it with a new bike.  Last image shows the fluid where it has soaked into the garage floor.

So, am I being unreasonable to expect this to be corrected under warranty?

[oldbike54]

 No .

 Dusty

[rocker59]

2-months old bike with less than a thou on the clock ?

That should be a no-brainer warranty repair.

Should be.... 

[jackson]

I don't understand why a shop would say that Guzzi will probably expect you to just live with it.  It's a new bike and it's under warranty.  Just be firm and tell them that you want it repaired under the warranty.

[PJPR01]

Can't imagine a dealer would want you to live with that issue, even if Guzzi HQ wouldn't reimburse them, which with a bumper to bumper warranty, they should get reimbursed no matter what. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Have you seriously POed the dealer? <shrug> That's the only scenario that makes sense to me..

[twowings]

I'd be leery of a selling dealer not standing behind a brand-new bike with no obvious signs of owner abuse...he/she is throwing away a lot of potential future business by alienating you right from the start...is there another dealer within a reasonable distance? Maybe it's time to investigate...

[beetle]

Fork seal? Yes. You're being unreasonable. Fork seals are a consumable, just like tyres. If you get a puncture after 736 miles are going to claim warranty? Guzzi can no more prevent shit from the road buggering up your fork seals than they can from punctures. Suck it up.

[rocker59]

Fork seal? Yes. You're being unreasonable. Fork seals are a consumable, just like tyres. If you get a puncture after 736 miles are going to claim warranty? Guzzi can no more prevent shit from the road buggering up your fork seals than they can from punctures. Suck it up.

If I had a ding from a rock on my fork tube, I'd totally understand that position.

If not, then my first thought would be faulty seal or faulty seal install at the factory.

And, i'd pursue it as a warranty claim.

[ITSec]

Is a fork seal a wear part and exempt from warranty? Yes.

Can a seal be damaged by bad installation or a marred fork tube, just as it could be by road debris? Yes.

Should the dealer offer a compromise as a goodwill gesture, and check for possible factory-level damage in the process? If they are wise, but they are under no obligation (other than goodwill) to do so.

When I worked at a dealership, we did such work in most similar cases; we often asked the customer to pay for the parts or the labor, but not both.

[Rich A]

For $5-10, I'd try one of those fork seal cleaners:

http://sealmate.net/

Rich

[beetle]

Don't even buy a sealmate. Make one for a plastic container lid.

[Kev m]

Fork seal? Yes. You're being unreasonable. Fork seals are a consumable, just like tyres. If you get a puncture after 736 miles are going to claim warranty? Guzzi can no more prevent shit from the road buggering up your fork seals than they can from punctures. Suck it up.

Nah, that's like saying an engine oil leak shouldn't be covered.

There are degrees of consumables and it's unreasonable for a fork seal to be leaking in this short a time frame/mileage.

[beetle]

Rubbish. A fork seal is a consumable. You can't compare it to an engine oil leak.

[PJPR01]

Rubbish. A fork seal is a consumable. You can't compare it to an engine oil leak.

Seriously?  In 2 months and 736 miles?   I think not...

[Bisbonian]

Seriously?  In 2 months and 736 miles?   I think not...

Agree with PJPR01

[oldbike54]

 Before this turns into another kerfuffle (one a day is adequate  ) , is there any chance that the dealer might attempt the seal cleaning trick ? Takes about 2 minutes if one must cut the tool , and costs nothing . Just sayin' 

 Dusty

[rboe]

What ITsec said. Mileage is pretty low but in the same vein, would you try to warranty a flat tire? Too many things can cause the seal to leak (dead bugs etc.) beyond the control of the manufacture.

One would think the dealer would do something to help out but that would be on a case by case basis.

[lucian]

Before this turns into another kerfuffle (one a day is adequate  ) , is there any chance that the dealer might attempt the seal cleaning trick ? Takes about 2 minutes if one must cut the tool , and costs nothing . Just sayin' 

 Dusty

 :1: have yet to not have this work on a reasonably new seal. usually just some dirt lodged . I cut mine out of plastic soda bottles.

[oldbike54]

:1: have yet to not have this work on a reasonably new seal. usually just some dirt lodged . I cut mine out of plastic soda bottles.

 Reminds me of the passage in Zen and the Art where Pirsig is cutting handlebar shims from an aluminum can for his friend's beemer . The friend insists Pirsig obtain and use the official BMW part for the application 

 Dusty

[old as dirt 2]

most definitely it should be covered.

[Idontwantapickle]

MG Pilot,
I have serviced one contraption or another for most of my life and if you had bought that from any organization I have worked for and had that issue as you describe it would be fixed with a smile, no cost to you. It is very bad form to crap all over customers with excuses and laying blame on the manufacturer. You should insist that it be repaired. These bikes are expensive. The customer deserves respect and the benefit of the doubt.
Go tell them to suck it up and fix it. Piaggio is not your problem.
Hunter

[Duc-Duc-Goose]

Well, I also have a '15 Norge, and it has about 850 miles on it. If this happened to me, I'd be bummed. I'd express my dismay to the dealer, regardless of whether it's a consumable part. This sort of thing kinda falls into customer satisfaction territory IMO. I am very confident the shop where I bought mine would make something like this right. I'd even be willing to go halves if they were courteous about it. Good luck! 

[Kev m]

Rubbish. A fork seal is a consumable. You can't compare it to an engine oil leak.

Such black and white characterization is nonsense.

Every part of the bike has a limited life span and could be argued a consumable.

Tires and brakes are among the most obvious because their life spans area so relatively short.

But even with them, absent a sign of damage from use/exposure/abuse then such an unreasonably early failure should be covered by a warranty (unless specifically excluded).

Absent obvious damage or abuse seals should be very long lived components.

[timonbik]

Fork seals are not consumables.  That's like saying piston rings are consumables.  In Ontario leaking fork seals would prevent a bike from being certified.  I had a truck that had extended warranty and Dodge replaced leaking shocks on a 5 year old truck.  I realize tires and brake pads are consumables but if they FAILED prematurely I would still expect them to be covered.

[ITSec]

Fork seals are not consumables.  That's like saying piston rings are consumables.  In Ontario leaking fork seals would prevent a bike from being certified.  I had a truck that had extended warranty and Dodge replaced leaking shocks on a 5 year old truck.  I realize tires and brake pads are consumables but if they FAILED prematurely I would still expect them to be covered.

I get what you're saying, but tires, fork seals and brakes are all exposed to the outside world and are subject to unpredictable causes of wear - dirt, rock chips, nails, and so on. Just as with tires and brake pads (and as I said earlier) there is a presumption of responsibility for such items. If the dealer can demonstrate that the failure is due to a warrantee-able cause (i.e. mis-installation, flawed tube) then a warranty claim should be made. If it is due to an unlucky encounter with grit or gunk, then it falls in the 'nail in a tire' category. I do believe it's in the dealer's best interests to offer a compromise as goodwill, and to pursue a warranty claim if the evidence on replacement supports that.

It may not be a win-win, but it doesn't have to be lose-lose.

[Huzo]

MG Pilot, I know this is absolutely not the point you were making, but given the amount of knowledge you would have given your experience and also the amount of advice available here, do you reckon maybe this time just do it yourself ? That's not to be negative to you, but while it's leaking you could get some on your tyre or brake pads and it just looks shithouse. My Norge hasn't done as much as some here , but @ 94,000 k the seals are perfect and I expect others would have had as good or better run. Huzo.

[rodekyll]

I agree that it should be covered -- with a gaiter.  As far as the warranty issue, if I ran the shop I'd fix it on general principles, but I'd have it come in during a slack time to do it.  I might rethink that if the owner copped an attitude.  If I was the owner I wouldn't be worrying about it.  There is probably a chunk of crud allowing the leak and the seal cleaner of choice would probably cure it.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

When one of my seals 0m my 1200 Sport started leaking last year, I ordered a SEAL MATE tool. THAT FIXED THE PROBLEM!!!..  Started leaking several thousand miles later and it did the trick again! 

[MGPilot]

FWIW, that fork started to show dark tracks or rings from the first ride. I thought it might settle in over time, but it's only gotten worse. So whatever is causing it has nothing to do with rocks or road damage.

In defense of the dealer, their response was to my first call about the issue. The photos (I hope) make it clear that I'm not just whining about a faint trace of oil on the fork.

The bike is scheduled for its 600 mile service on May 24th, so they can see it then....or sooner if they want me to bring it in for inspection.

What will I do if MG doesn't want to cover it?

Options range from paying the dealer & trying to get a discount, doing it myself....to just selling my bikes and dropping a company that won't stand behind its products. I could have a lot of fun with a Morgan or Caterham.