The Fugitive 1400 motor in a Tonti frame merged threadfest

[redrider90]

http://www.bikeexif.com/radical-guzzi-cafe-racer
“The goal was to take the Moto Guzzi cafe racer to the next level,” says Radical collaborator Kris Karathomas.
“To cross the line of 100 horsepower and the torque typical of a two-valve engine. The logical consequence was to implant a 4-valve engine into the Tonti frame.”
The powerplant is sourced from Moto Guzzi’s 1200 cc Griso—but with the larger pistons and cylinders from the 1400 California. Specifications vary according to customer requirements, but hotter cams and Keihin 41mm FCR carbs are usually specified.
This boosts engine output to 130 horsepower and 112 ft.-lb. of torque. To put that into perspective, the stock California pumps out 96 horsepower and 89 ft.-lb.
Even more pertinent is the weight: Ristretto tips the scales at just under 200 kilos (440 pounds) with a full tank, while the California is 336 kilos'"

[Chesterfield]

That is cool!

[fotoguzzi]

Needs fenders

[Triple Jim]

Needs fenders

And nicer looking wheels.

And air filters.

[Groover]

I like! I wonder how that final shaft/drive is handled...

[bad Chad]

Wow, I wonder how this works?  It's siting it a frame originally designed for what, 55-60hp? 

[beetle]

130HP? Bwahahahahaha!
112ft/lbs? Bwahahahahahaha!
With carbs? Bwahahahahahahahaha!
In a Tonti frame? A frame and bevel box designed for 60HP? Teehee!

Utter shite. I have never seen a dyno chart to back up these stupid claims.

I fart in their general direction.

[oldbike54]

 Mark , are you saying you don't believe the claims ? 

 Dusty

[guzzisteve]

130HP? Bwahahahahaha!
112ft/lbs? Bwahahahahahaha!
With carbs? Bwahahahahahahahaha!
In a Tonti frame? A frame and bevel box designed for 60HP? Teehee!

Utter shite. I have never seen a dyno chart to back up these stupid claims.

I fart in their general direction.

Somehow that sounds like Pete, I'm surprised it wasn't a munter. If you put it in a loop frame it would have the alt and room for EFI. Just think of the driveshafts you could twist off.

[redrider90]

They claim they had sold 3 of them a $50K a pop

"Moto Guzzis are rarely prone to �shaft jacking.� But given the Ristretto�s high engine output, builder Stefan Bronold decided not to takes any chances. He�s designed and fitted a tubular-framed swingarm with more torsional stiffness than a factory original.

You get a choice of two wheels: conventional spoked items, or the striking solid disc wheels shown here�forged from aluminum, and made by RevTech."


Radical Guzzi "The Fugitive" Moto Guzzi Cafe Racer 1380cc 8V Motor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slhYT1pKL4s

[beetle]

Mark , are you saying you don't believe the claims ? 

Dusty, that's exactly what I'm saying. 

Somehow that sounds like Pete, I'm surprised it wasn't a munter. If you put it in a loop frame it would have the alt and room for EFI. Just think of the driveshafts you could twist off.

Maybe I'm hanging out with Pete too much. Yes, I'm thinking about drive shafts twisted up like spaghetti and bevel drives with rooted internals.

That's a lovely swing arm. It'll hold the spaghetti twisted drive shaft very nicely.

 

[guzzisteve]

Mark,    That's why I own 4 extra drives and a box of shafts. Stuff is getting pricey these days.

[beetle]

Stuff is getting pricey these days.

You're telling me. 50K for that pile of poxy munt?

Egads!

[rtbickel]

That's one of the worst looking exhaust systems I've  ever seen.

[pete roper]

It was explained to me that the reason the Germans keep sticking newer motors in ancient, overworked bits of shite like this is due to their type approval regs. It seems you aren't allowed to modify any bike newer than a certain date and that date predates the V11 spine frames or the CARC platforms.

The result seems to be this endless 'Groundhog Daying' of bolting 1200/1400 Hi-Cams into poor old Tonti frames, sticking the five speed lathe gearbox behind it with a clutch designed for at most 2/3rds of the power and torque the motor will produce then finally spitting the absurd power claims out through a bevelbox designed for 60 HP with tooth areas about a third of the size of the teeth in a CARC bevelbox, half the size of the teeth in a V11 bevelbox. All the bearings in the Tonti box are about a 1/4 the size of those in the CARC box! It's simply ridiculous!

Then the crowning glory! Stick poxy carburettors on it!

Look, if people like the look of it? That's fine! I think it's a hideous joke but I accept that others will have different tastes but please, for the love of all that's holy, don't pretend for a moment that it is either wise or capable in engineering terms or capable of matching the absurd claims made for it!

Oh, here's a picture of one of the horses used to calibrate the dyno used to gather the data on this machine's performance.



Pete

[oldbike54]

 I had a 1950 Plymouth Club Coupe with an advertised 78 HP that probably used those little bitty horses as a unit of measure. It required a calendar for performance testing  The really scary part was braking performance , 60 to zero MPH in 2 days . Of course that was moot , because anything above 50 MPH required a 15 MPH tail wind 

 Dusty

[guzzitime]

Could they put some air filters in it pleaz? A sure waste of effort not to

[fotoguzzi]

that probably used those little bitty horses as a unit of measure. 

you mean those pygmy ponies? these are called therapy ponies so they could get into our TV studio.

[Turin]

If you like that sort of thing...

[Triple Jim]

Could they put some air filters in it pleaz? A sure waste of effort not to

Please see Rotten Ralph's recent thread.   http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91797.msg1448873#msg1448873

:)

[pete roper]

Why and how can carburettors make more top end than FI? Top end power will be a matter of two things, accuracy of mixture and volumetric efficiency.

Fuel metering is far more accurate with FI. VE has to be lower due to the inherent energy consumption of forcing the air through a Venturi to move the fuel mass from the float bowl to the Venturi by way of a jet and atomiser, (Wth a conventional slide carb.).

Sorry, the laws of physics reign supreme. Everything else is tiddlywinks.

Pete

[Rough Edge racing]

 So none of you think a very modified 4 valve head Guzzi can't make 130HP?.....4 valve stock new Ducati's make well over 130 HP within the rules of emission standards..Yes I know a Ducati engine is far more developed than any stock Guzzi...
 And auto drag racers know that carburetors can make more top end HP than fuel injection...

[Rough Edge racing]

Why and how can carburettors make more top end than FI? Top end power will be a matter of two things, accuracy of mixture and volumetric efficiency.

Fuel metering is far more accurate with FI. VE has to be lower due to the inherent energy consumption of forcing the air through a Venturi to move the fuel mass from the float bowl to the Venturi by way of a jet and atomiser, (Wth a conventional slide carb.).

Sorry, the laws of physics reign supreme. Everything else is tiddlywinks.

Pete

Sorry Pete I removed my post for clarification....Mo re HP in limited racing situations...I did say drag racing....

[beetle]

People who think they can make more HP with carbs, don't understand fuel injection. Or can't make it work.

[pete roper]

I never said a word...............

[Rough Edge racing]

People who think they can make more HP with carbs, don't understand fuel injection. Or can't make it work.

  Please do not take my statement out of context... Are you involved in land speed racing and drag racing like I am? Do you talk to the tuners about making power? Do you understand how a simple placement of injectors  in all so important for high end power? Do you think a sharp tuner in a small shop can even get close to a the resources and engineering the factory racing teams have?
 

[Groover]

How about a 600cc engine on a Vespa 50cc frame? 





YouTube Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkVtCxkPDmo

[Chuck in Indiana]

I helped a friend (RIP, Lyle) ruin a Metro.. 
Talk about something scary to drive..

[Triple Jim]

I helped a friend (RIP, Lyle) ruin a Metro.. 
Talk about something scary to drive..

Chuck, how far does that infinity effect go?  I can see three yellow Metropolitans in the photo.  Is there an even smaller one on top?

[redrider90]

Chuck, how far does that infinity effect go?  I can see three yellow Metropolitans in the photo.  Is there an even smaller one on top?

Hot damn I missed that one Jim. Had to go back and look and am going WT.... and then I saw them stacked like a wedding cake.