Author Topic: “The BIG 3”  (Read 1342 times)

Online Cam3512

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“The BIG 3”
« on: March 03, 2019, 05:48:52 PM »
850 LeMans, V7 Sport and 1000S

All three are very comparable in value ($12-$18K).  Rank them in order of YOUR worth/desirability.  Consider really nice examples of each.  I’ll go first...

1.  V7 Sport

2.  850 LeMans

3.  1000S

Gotta say, it’s only a short hair between the three.  LOVE to own one of each.
Cam - NJ Rep MGNOC
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canuck750

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 08:16:32 PM »
Just a slight enhancement and my order of preference,

1972 V7 Sport - Red frame, $35 ~ $45K

1973 ~ 1974 V7 Sport - 73 drum or 74 disc brake $16 ~ $20K

1974 750S  - $14 ~ $18K

1976 Le Mans $16 ~ $20K

1975 750 S3 - $14 ~ $16K

1977 ~ 1978 Le Mans - $15 ~ $18K

1000S - $14 ~ $18K

Offline jas67

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 08:57:03 PM »
I too would love to have all three.

I would say in order of looks (adding in the 750S):
V7 Sport
750S (like the round fin barrels better)
1000S
850 Le Mans

But, haven't only ridden my LM1 once (fork is shot, won't ride again until that is rebuilt), and not ridden the other too, I can only speculate which ones ride better.   I'd guess the enjoyment factor with all would be about the same, but, would certainly expect the 850 and 1000S to be quicker than the 750's.
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Online Shorty

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2019, 09:18:47 PM »
I have owned a V7 Sport, and a Leman III, both briefly. I found nothing special about the V7 Sport, other than it's originality and beauty of  design. Other than looks, it was just another 850T to me. The LMIII was better in every way, and was also a home run style wise, at least to me. The chance to sell at a profit was too tempting in both cases, so they soon went on to new owners. I test rode a 1000s. To me the best looking of the 3. I did not use any of them to near their abilities, but given the choice , I'd take the 1000s. I'd take an early model. I will not guess at value.

1. 1000s, early model big valve engine.
2. LM, up to the Mark III
3.  V7 Sport






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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2019, 09:18:47 PM »

Offline s1120

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 07:35:41 AM »
1000S because thats the bike that turned me on to Guzzi's..

LM I because I love the looks, and the history..

750S...  just stunning!!!!   

really a good list, because that is my top three guzzi's all together.
Paul B

Offline Roebling3

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 08:36:34 AM »
I was pleased to make what at the time was serious $ on a '77 and an '87LM a few years back.
So Daytona's are way too new for consideration?  R3~

Online Turin

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 09:48:06 AM »
They shouldn't  be. 1993 is the first year of the Daytona and the last year of the 1000s.
I sure wouldn't trade my Daytona for any of those 3.

I'm waiting for the Quota to take off :grin:
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:21:24 AM by Turin »
2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
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1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline larrys

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 10:22:26 AM »
Beautiful machines all, but I am not comfortable with the riding position on any of them.
Larry
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 11:50:58 AM »
Beautiful machines all, but I am not comfortable with the riding position on any of them.
Larry

I went through that in my early 60s. I thought I was in pretty good shape for an old fart. A personal trainer thought otherwise. He built up my core and thigh strength, and I was back on sport bikes.
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 12:11:38 PM »
I went through that in my early 60s. I thought I was in pretty good shape for an old fart. A personal trainer thought otherwise. He built up my core and thigh strength, and I was back on sport bikes.

Building up my "core and thigh strength" isn't going to help me, at least on the V7 Sport and Le Mans. Even with the "swan neck" clip-ons at their highest position, a V7 Sport is only comfortable for me for ~150 miles. The Le Mans with stock seat is good for even less, with a Corbin maybe about the same. Knees hurt. A Le Mans III is the worst of the series for me - kills my neck, the Le Mans 1000 is actually very comfortable. Don't know about the 1000S as I only rode one about 20 miles, back when I was 28 years old.

My Morini K2 is pretty much all day comfortable, even with a crowned, board-hard seat and medium low clip-ons. I've done a few days of 350 miles plus on it and didn't experience nearly the discomfort that I would on any sporting Guzzi. 
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Offline pebra

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 12:40:02 PM »
Of those three  -  I'll take the 1000S, because of the hp / displacement.
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Offline Roebling3

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2019, 02:11:39 PM »
All the snapping and popping in my spine and shoulders is telling me something I refuse to acknowledge.  Looking @ the bucket list something better than 400 - 500 mile days back to back will be the question.  If you still laugh in your helmet carry on!  R3~ 

canuck750

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2019, 07:59:33 PM »
I have owned and ridden the V7 Sport, 750S, 750 S3 and LeMans MKI, owned the green 1000S but never rode it.
I find the V7 Sport / 750S the most comfortable with the swan necks pulled al the way up and once on the go my feet resting on the passenger pegs.
The clip-ons of the 750 S3 and LeMans coupled with the foot pegs were just too uncomfortable for me to ride for just about any length of time.
Sitting on the 1000S was a comfortable reach to the controls and the ergos felt right.

As far as desirability (notwithstanding the Telia Rossa V7 Sport) I think the Le Mans MKI is on the top of my list, the styling is in my opinion the peak of the Guzzi big twins of the 70's.

I give second place to the 750S with the hump back seat and the black mufflers and the V7 Sport in close third place. The Green Frame 1000S is a stunner but I am a sucker for the original stuff.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 08:26:45 PM by canuck750 »

Offline Tusayan

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2019, 10:24:47 PM »
I’ve got about 70K miles on a stock early LM seat and never had a reason to complain, an early LM I or II is really a comfortable bike for me.  I did lots of 500 mile or more days on mine and anticipate doing more on mine in retirement a few years from now... after I go through the 100K mile mechanicals!

I don’t often buy or sell motorcycles, and I already own the ones I want most. So market value isn’t my main interest. With that in mind, my top three are...

1. 850 LM and Daytona RS - tied, both have ‘it’ in terms of both looks and satisfaction to ride and own... with a few mods in either case :thumb:  The LM II is actually a functional improvement over the original but lost the blistering hot styling impact of the original LM.  The RS feels special bcause it is special - I won’t be selling mine until I can’t ride it and maybe not then.

2. V7 Sport - mainly for quality of components and historical role, they are a mild mannered classic bike to ride, no more, but given the quality and engineering that’s fine.  The 750S and (less so) S3 were steps backward in quality, no faster, and would have led to nowhere if the Le Mans hadn’t come along to get Guzzi going again.

3. 1993 LM V Ultima Edizione - I’m not a fan of retro so prefer it versus the 1000S, either are fun to ride with the big valve engine. A nice touring bike that gets down the road in fine style.

The LM III was a nicely styled bike, but the too long gas tank and harder, slippery surfaced seat make it a big step backward in functionality compared with the earlier (or later) versions.  I’d still like to have one.

The last circa 2004 V11 Sports were fun, versatile bikes and not withstanding the weird Aprilia colors they were real Guzzis... but I can’t get past the bubbling Acerbis plastic fuel tank.  That was a ridiculous money saving gambit.

Nothing after the V11 Sport has been of much interest to me until the V85TT, which seems to be having the same effect on a lot of people.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:17:32 PM by Tusayan »

Offline SED

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2019, 10:49:02 PM »
LM1
1000S
V7 Sport

However I think the LMIII with an LMII fairing would look best (to me).
1983 LeMans III
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Offline steven c

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2019, 08:15:45 AM »
 As much as I love My 77 LeMans if someone offered me $12K for it....... But its a rider not a show bike so that is not going to happen. I did own a III for 10 years and with a Corbin gunfighter and and set of super bike bars I could ride all day on it.
 

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Offline cliffrod

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2019, 08:41:38 AM »
850 LeMans, V7 Sport and 1000S

All three are very comparable in value ($12-$18K).  Rank them in order of YOUR worth/desirability.  Consider really nice examples of each.  I’ll go first...

1.  V7 Sport

2.  850 LeMans

3.  1000S

Gotta say, it’s only a short hair between the three.  LOVE to own one of each.

I would also rank them in this order. 

Ever since I put it on the road for Daytona in 94, my V7 Sport has been my baseline for all bikes.  It is home.  Plain Tommaselli clips ons ride low & comfortable, especially with long seat and feet on rear pegs.  It's just a great rider imho.

I've often thought about trying to acquire an early 850 LM.  but every time I get close to one, it doesn't speak to me in the same way.  The slightly more squared details are more noticeable and I don't like it as much.  Cannot speak to riding/performance- never ridden one. Found one (retired race bike, heavily modified) once I really wanted but never could get it.  I would still like to have one, but doubt I will. 

The 1000S was an obvious retro bike, mechanically updated over both V7 Sport & 850 LM.  Looks cool but still only a retro.  I wouldn't pass one by for a cheap price, but am not really interested in struggling to own one.   Just like my 1990 HD Electroglide Classic is a "better" mechanical bike to ride, it is not the same as a real Electraglide.  Sometimes better isn't necessarily an improvement.  There's a reason the original version was so significant.

As a side note, something to consider-

While slowly work on my Corsa-Record loop cafe project and studying the two bikes Tonti built, it's easy to spot a number of the build details appear later on the V7 Sport, LM and then on other later bikes.    It's interesting how these purpose built bikes- done as somewhat spontaneous, on a short schedule and to only use for a couple of days of time trials at Monza- provided so much of the pattern for Guzzi's later production machines.  Not all details were identical between Record & later bikes, but the inspiration & lineage is obvious.

Some details went straight into the Sport (like the front fork brace/upper fender mount) while others skipped the sport and went into the 850LM (upswept exhaust & tank/seat intersection detail).   The V7 Sport and the 850 LM are the basis of so many of Guzzi's cool v-twin bikes but the Record bikes are the end of the ruler...
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

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canuck750

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2019, 12:17:51 PM »

The 750S and (less so) S3 were steps backward in quality, no faster, and would have led to nowhere if the Le Mans hadn’t come along to get Guzzi going again.


The 750S is the European version of the V7 Sport for 1974, dual disc brakes and only other changes from the V7 Sport are the black painted mufflers, the revised tool box doors (like the 850T without the louvers) the hump back seat, 750 S got the cast Aprilia signal lights where as the North American V7 Sport had Lucas signal lights. All 750S are left hand shift and rod operated rear drum brake.

The drive line of the 1973 V7 Sport and 1974 750S are identical.

The 750S3 is a 850T3 with some cosmetic changes. I have the parts manual for the 750 S3 and it is just a supplement to the 850T3, different heads,  carbs, gas tank, side cover emblems, exhaust, seat, signal lights, LMI type clip ons, etc.

Offline Tusayan

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Re: “The BIG 3”
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2019, 09:19:36 PM »
My view of the 750S in relation to the V7 Sport is that minor but negative changes like the unchromed but otherwise unchanged mufflers, neither-solo-nor-dual seat and overstyled tool box covers detract from the previous package.  The ‘industrial look’ vendor-supplied disk front brakes are clearly better performing but also detract from collectibility in relation to the artistic Guzzi manufactured drum.  Even more so, the unchanged engine performance that in 1971 seemed a bit weak (but OK in 1971) was by 1974 very weak.  By 1974 and 75 the bikes had fallen off the map and the 1976 Le Mans was the solution, improved again in ‘77 with an improved quality dual seat and custom designed tail light to replace the generic Ducati-Vespa style item.

The 77/78 Le Mans and 1997 Daytona RS are to me the two high points in Guzzi production sport bike history, based on their combination of exciting performance and exciting styling.  The V7 Sport is more historically important than either, and a lovely thing, but its performance is (quite) pleasant versus (very) exciting.

The big valve 1000S is a nicely developed bike hamstrung by old man’s backward looking styling.  Just my opinion, retro belongs somewhere else except my garage whether produced in 1991 or today.  I’d prefer one the last LMs with fairing mounted instruments. The very last ‘93s seem like the most collectible of those to me.

Happily my opinion of these models is of no particular importance because I’m not selling or buying. I have most of what I want already, won’t be selling for 15 or 20 years and with the run up of classic bike values I’d spend my money elsewhere - 90s Ducatis and Dr John Guzzis look like better buys to me.  And I have no room or time for ten or more bikes anyway, in combination with other vehicles my current nine bikes is plenty enough  :grin:
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 10:42:32 PM by Tusayan »

 


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