Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ampm7 on February 20, 2021, 02:56:40 PM

Title: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on February 20, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
Is the download on Guzzidiag for the P8 the MIU3? I at first thought I had the 15M on my '98 EV but it is the P8. Thanks...
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: guzzisteve on February 20, 2021, 03:24:08 PM
A P8 will need a chip changed in it, it does not allow a download. You can make a chip to put in it with the correct equipment.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on February 20, 2021, 03:38:16 PM
Does it need a download, the 98 EV was pretty stable.
What are the symptoms?
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on February 20, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
The usual symptoms: In first and second partial throttle/decel it has a surge and backfire. Once you roll on there is not a problem especially once you get above 4,000 in 3rd and 4th. I have adjusted the trim screw in the aft position on the P8 computer and I increased the fuel flow and it helped to a certain extent but I would like to get it right. Maybe that is not possible, I may just have to live with it; as it will get me from point A to B in a very reliable fashion. But since I have the interface cable, I wanted to know what I could do...It would be especially advantageous regarding the TPS measurement to measure it from the computer than unplugging the connector and putting the multimeter probes in as this just measures voltage and not position of the sensor. Correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on February 20, 2021, 06:25:40 PM
The usual symptoms: In first and second partial throttle/decel it has a surge and backfire. Once you roll on there is not a problem especially once you get above 4,000 in 3rd and 4th. I have adjusted the trim screw in the aft position on the P8 computer and I increased the fuel flow and it helped to a certain extent but I would like to get it right. Maybe that is not possible, I may just have to live with it; as it will get me from point A to B in a very reliable fashion. But since I have the interface cable, I wanted to know what I could do...It would be especially advantageous regarding the TPS measurement to measure it from the computer than unplugging the connector and putting the multimeter probes in as this just measures voltage and not position of the sensor. Correct me if I am wrong.

?
Measuring the voltage IS the position of the sensor. That is all the P8 can do. Of course it is more convenient to just plug in the Diagnostic cable.

You don't need to download anything but GuzziDiag to use it. Anything else is for cooking a new map which in that case needs an EEPROM reader and writer.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on February 20, 2021, 07:33:20 PM
Yes Wayne, but what is the download? The specific download for that computer?
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: antmanbee on February 20, 2021, 07:44:06 PM
What Wayne said. You just need Guzzidiag only and the one version covers all the ECU's. The reader and writers are ECU specific.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 21, 2021, 08:01:42 AM
Yes Wayne, but what is the download? The specific download for that computer?
Maybe a misunderstanding? You have to burn a chip to change the P8.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on February 21, 2021, 08:10:59 AM
I would try changing the potentiometer, it's a weird one with only 4 turns.
http://www.dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf
Item 1 page 11
Turn it just 1/4 turn one way then half a turn back the other to see what effect it has.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on February 21, 2021, 09:23:05 AM
Yes Wayne, but what is the download? The specific download for that computer?

You download GuzziDiag. You plug in the GuzziDiag cable. All is well.
Go into GuzziDiag right now, see if it has a setting for the P8. Done.

If you want to remap the EEPROM, you need an EEPROM burner. It is a 27C256. Buy a bunch of blanks, because most that are available are OTP (one time programable).
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on February 21, 2021, 10:59:35 AM
I'll give it a whirl...Thanks
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Loop Tonti EV on February 21, 2021, 12:20:47 PM
I had a 95 1100 I in the late 90s.(the same drive line as the 98)  I got a "power chip" from I don't remember where. I installed in in the p8 ecu. That thing came alive. Power on in 2nd gear and the back tire would break loose. I got away from a Ducati 750 SS one evening and my friend couldn't believe it. I don't remember where I got it or if they're still available but that was the only thing I did for that bike for the 50,000 miles that I had it.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Kiwi Dave on February 21, 2021, 01:21:08 PM
Is the Will Creedon chip still available for these models?  I never tried one, but some sang its praises.

Then there was also one available from Australia, but I can't remember his name.  Somebody Jefferies, perhaps?

Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on February 21, 2021, 03:40:02 PM
Is the Will Creedon chip still available for these models?  I never tried one, but some sang its praises.

Then there was also one available from Australia, but I can't remember his name.  Somebody Jefferies, perhaps?

I'm pretty sure Will never did a chip for the P8. He did most of his work on the 15M 16M.

There was a P8 chip, but I don't recall the name of it. Since the P8 and California 1100i ran so well, likely a touch too rich, few people bothered worrying about it.

I have a copy of the data for those chips somewhere in my files. Geez, over 20 years old now. I don't know if my prom burner still works though.


Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: antmanbee on February 21, 2021, 04:03:59 PM
I'm pretty sure Will never did a chip for the P8. He did most of his work on the 15M.

There was a P8 chip, but I don't recall the name of it. Since the P8 and California 1100i ran so well, likely a touch too rich, few people bothered worrying about it.

I have a copy of the data for those chips somewhere in my files. Geez, over 20 years old now. I don't know if my prom burner still works though.

The 15M can be written to by the Guzzi diag writer program. I think you mean the 16M for the ones Will worked with.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on February 21, 2021, 07:47:11 PM
The 15M can be written to by the Guzzi diag writer program. I think you mean the 16M for the ones Will worked with.

Oops. Yes, brain fart. 16M

Also, not sure why the 16M came before the 15M.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: antmanbee on February 21, 2021, 08:47:32 PM
Oops. Yes, brain fart. 16M

Also, not sure why the 16M came before the 15M.

I've always wondered the same thing about the 16M.
The 15M and 15RC systems are the best in my opinion. Just enough tech to be good and not so complex to be troublesome. Easy to alter the maps if necessary.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: moto-uno on February 22, 2021, 05:28:04 PM
^  Easy is a relative term here  :wink:. It took me a few tries ( I'm not totally computer illiterate ) , but my oh my what a revelation that
download was . The cold and low speed running was as one would've expected before emissions standards came to be . And the shifting
improvement alone was worth the upgrade . Peter
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ejs on February 23, 2021, 09:48:57 AM
Eprom for the CaliforniaEV. Bought one 7years ago on Ebay.
(https://i.ibb.co/YTgLWrH/Screenshot-2021-02-23-16-43-06-032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YTgLWrH)
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on February 23, 2021, 06:16:43 PM
Just ordered one...On EBay...
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Irishflyer on May 08, 2021, 10:10:30 PM
ampm7, have you installed the Eprom yet?  I have a 96' that I would like to upgrade exhaust and air filter with, this looks like a good route. 
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: JoeB on May 09, 2021, 06:29:53 AM
Remember in 98 or so one aftermarket chip that was available. Think it was called Misano (Mislano) chip?
Believe Moto International was selling it. Got one off a Dutch fellow in Europe.
At the time had an open airbox and H pipe.
Wanting more went to the power commander available at the time from Guzzi Tech.
Could play around and program it. Learned allot about tuning the bike.
 For me, after a couple longish trips went back to stock and haven't looked back.
Got so far into it I forgot how comfortable a well tuned stocker ran.

Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 09, 2021, 08:58:09 AM
For me, after a couple longish trips went back to stock and haven't looked back.
Got so far into it I forgot how comfortable a well tuned stocker ran.

 :thumb:
Other then the temp sensor in the left valve cover, the P8 works pretty well in stock form.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Irishflyer on May 09, 2021, 10:03:33 AM
:thumb:
Other then the temp sensor in the left valve cover, the P8 works pretty well in stock form.
  I get a bit of a bog between 3500-4000 rpm.  Adjusting the valves helped some.  But dammit, man, we are tinkerers, can't help it... :evil:

That being said, I have read that the P8 bikes run a little rich.  Can they stand an air filter upgrade or an exhaust change on that stock map?
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on May 09, 2021, 10:25:32 AM
I did put a K&N in and a set of slash cut Macs on also, but it still has that unnerving hesitation/bog/fueling problem at 3500-4000rpm. I also got an Eprom from Germany but it was so old that the prongs disintegrated when installing. However, I did get the number off of that unit and ordered 20 more from China but they were all a different number even though the picture (EBay) was the correct one. I installed it and the fuel pump would cycle on/off and the rev counter would blip. So, I went back to to the old 441.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 09, 2021, 10:57:08 AM
I did put a K&N in and a set of slash cut Macs on also, but it still has that unnerving hesitation/bog/fueling problem at 3500-4000rpm. I also got an Eprom from Germany but it was so old that the prongs disintegrated when installing. However, I did get the number off of that unit and ordered 20 more from China but they were all a different number even though the picture (EBay) was the correct one. I installed it and the fuel pump would cycle on/off and the rev counter would blip. So, I went back to to the old 441.

The number on the eprom is just a blank eprom. (something like 27C256-15) It is the programing magic that is stored inside that does the works.

How bad are the leads on the broken chip? I might be able to tack them on, read the chip, and copy the code into a good new blank chips that you have. (or for that matter I have some blank here). I have a chip reader that you do not 'plug' the chip into, it clamps on the chip, so it might work.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: guzzista on May 09, 2021, 11:04:12 AM
I have  a Moto International P8 Chip .  PM me if interested.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on May 10, 2021, 10:32:18 AM
Since they can be erased by ultraviolet, can this be done and then be re-inserted into the computer and they will read the computer and re-program? The # of the one I got from Germany/Singapore was M27C256B -10F1 88801 1215L and the ones I got from China are M27C256B 10F1L 98006 V5 MYS 96 824. Do these ring a bell?
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Irishflyer on May 10, 2021, 04:54:06 PM
I would be interested in an eprom or at least a ROM, and some hints on burning my own ROM on an eprom.  I do some custom flashing on Androids, so not afraid of the command line and hitting "enter".. :laugh:
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on May 11, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
Guzzista, yes I would be interested in that P8 chip you have but couldn't find a way to PM you.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 11, 2021, 12:32:31 PM
Since they can be erased by ultraviolet, can this be done and then be re-inserted into the computer and they will read the computer and re-program? The # of the one I got from Germany/Singapore was M27C256B -10F1 88801 1215L and the ones I got from China are M27C256B 10F1L 98006 V5 MYS 96 824. Do these ring a bell?

Those number mean nothing to a Guzzi. For example, the 88801 and 98006, are likely date codes. The 10, as in the 10F1, is likely the speed. I believe that means 100us, but those brain cells are long faded.
They are like buying a memory card for a camera. You get a memory card labeled 8G SDHC or such. You don't expect it to already have pictures on it, it is a blank card. So you are buying blank memory chips.
You can get UV erasable, or, you can get OTP. OTP is cheaper, but One Time Programable and not reprogrammable. The last batch I bought were OTP. They were cheap, less then $1 each I think. The UV erasable can be unreliable. Not enough UV, they don't erase. Too much UV, and they are damaged.

So take those blank chips and throw them away. Get a pre-programmed chip. Be done.

OR

Figure out where to get a programmer. Borrow a programmed chip to read the contents or get a BIN file, and program the chip.
I have a stock EV bin file, so it is labeled. (again, old brain cells) If you have a programmer, you can tweak that map and burn the changes to a chip.

Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on May 12, 2021, 01:05:08 PM
The only problem Wayne is, where do I get the chip? From whom that is...I suppose I could contact Todd at Guzzitech as he does reflash but he is expensive. Hoping to save some money like most of us.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on May 12, 2021, 03:50:16 PM
The only problem Wayne is, where do I get the chip? From whom that is...I suppose I could contact Todd at Guzzitech as he does reflash but he is expensive. Hoping to save some money like most of us.

I thought you got a programed chip, and some leads broke on it. I could try to patch it up if possible and read it.

Or, you can use TunerPro and tweak the stock data yourself, and write it back out.

I have a prom burner and even a UV light somewhere. But it has to be plugged into an antique 32 bit PC ISO bus. I think I can get it working again if needed.
Title: Re: MIU3 for P8?
Post by: ampm7 on May 13, 2021, 11:11:28 AM
The original 441 that I removed I had to solder a couple of leads on it to get it back into the slot. It works however, I have another problem now. I replaced the manifold boots and for some odd reason the #1 cylinder is not working correctly. I took off the boot and took off the injector and cleaned it as good as I could and put it back on and the same problem exists. I have on order some new spark plug cables as one had been replaced (#2) and the #1 is the original. When I replace them I will check the resistance of the coil. The 441 does work as the M27C256B that I got from Germany (made for the '98 EV) broke many of the prongs off as it wouldn't align properly and I gingerly used some needle nose to align them and they simply fell off. It is not worth fixing as it would have to have 28 solder joints and they are so close together it is just not feasible. I'll stay in touch as I am going to have a hip replacement and that will shut down my riding for some time. Thanks very much for your offer.