HD doens't want electric motorcycles

[kingoffleece]

The LiveWire is not ugly by a long shot.

[Old Jock]

1000 mile range or even half of that, would be amazing and total game changer.

The energy density of Elon's new wonder battery would have to be extremely high surpassing gasoline and would be a paradigm shift in terms of the technological speed battery progress in making.

I remain somewhat sceptical in the meantime.

My motorcycling days are numbered for sure, so I count myself lucky that I won't have to venture into this Brave new world.

Besides if it doesn't overheat, leak oil, refuse to start, run at half power (one cylinder) and need the pan dropping every year I'm just not interested.

I don't understand the EV argument, in relation to Global warming, until the majority of the grid is generating from renewables the "very old sunshine" is just getting burnt elsewhere.

[Tonyblaze]

You and I see and hear two different things.  The Livewire looks about as far from a traditional Harley as you could get.  It's been accused of looking like an Electro-Lux vacuum cleaner, but beyond having two wheels and a seat,  nothing like a traditional motorcycle.

There's no reason for the faux fuel tank and in several interviews some of the engineers or tech guys stated that the bike takes some of its visual cues from the XR1200.

[Testarossa]

I don't understand the EV argument, in relation to Global warming, until the majority of the grid is generating from renewables the "very old sunshine" is just getting burnt elsewhere.

This depends on where you live. In Seattle and Vancouver, 98 to 99% of electricity comes from carbon-free sources -- almost 90% is hydro. The Northeast and Quebec have a ton of hydro too. Nationwide, Canada is 67% carbon-free sources now. France is mostly nuclear, Iceland is 100% hydro and geothermal. In 2020 the US grid was 40% carbon-free, including 20% nuclear, 7% hydro, 8% wind etc. Coal was down to 19%. The Northwest gets 2/3 of its power from hydro, Iowa is 54% wind, even Kansas is now 47% wind. We'll be at majority of the grid carbon-free pretty damn soon.

[Vagrant]

I'll test one if and when it will go 225 miles of hard mountain riding. And, TWO in Suches  puts in a $1.00 vending machine type charger.

[LowRyter]

......................
I don't understand the EV argument, in relation to Global warming, until the majority of the grid is generating from renewables the "very old sunshine" is just getting burnt elsewhere.

Additionally to TR's point is that the electric is much more efficient than an IC engine and consumes significantly less energy for the driven miles.

[oldbike54]

 Yes , the goofy meme that shows an E vehicle hooked to a coal fired power plant is pretty much nonsense .

I'll test one if and when it will go 225 miles of hard mountain riding. And, TWO in Suches  puts in a $1.00 vending machine type charger.

 Don't blink . As for the $1.00 charging machine , even a small bike is gonna burn 3 gallons of fuel in 225 miles , you do the math .

 Most of us will be gone before the IC engine disappears , in discussion with young folks , most don't have a love affair with the design , almost all of them are so accustomed to carrying battery powered devices that the idea of E vehicles fits into their zeitgeist .

 Dusty
 

[Old Jock]

This depends on where you live. In Seattle and Vancouver, 98 to 99% of electricity comes from carbon-free sources -- almost 90% is hydro. The Northeast and Quebec have a ton of hydro too. Nationwide, Canada is 67% carbon-free sources now. France is mostly nuclear, Iceland is 100% hydro and geothermal. In 2020 the US grid was 40% carbon-free, including 20% nuclear, 7% hydro, 8% wind etc. Coal was down to 19%. The Northwest gets 2/3 of its power from hydro, Iowa is 54% wind, even Kansas is now 47% wind. We'll be at majority of the grid carbon-free pretty damn soon.

I must read more, renewables are at a higher percentage than I imagined, here in the UK we are doing pretty well especailly Scotland, which has a head start with some smaller scale Hydro.

[Testarossa]

Carbon free is not the same as renewable. Nuclear doesn't show up as a renewable source. Some folks don't count hydro as renewable. But those are the biggest carbon-free sources. In future, count on tidal power as a major generator. It's not yet big enough to show up in stats. So it's easy to fall for the idea that renewables aren't going to take over soon, ignoring the fact that carbon-free is huge in a lot of places.

[Tusayan]

Certainly in the US, nuclear isn’t going to expand, hydro isn’t going to expand and tidal power etc are pipe dreams.  The only renewables that can expand on the grid are solar and wind, assuming permitting were to allow it.  Increasingly bigger and better equipment won’t hurt but in order to meet demand for all cars to become electric and renewable powered, solar and wind combined energy on the grid needs to expand by a factor of five (IIRC last time I calculated it), that is assuming that nothing else on the grid also wants to convert to renewable energy. 

Electric cars are going to be limited utility commuter vehicles making fairly efficient use of natural gas plus coal generated energy for the foreseeable future, with natural gas increasingly taking over coal.  The exception is places like France where they can increase nuclear output if desired, and also where individuals are willing and able to generate their own solar power at home. Break out your credit card if that’s what you want and preferably like ‘everybody else’ move to a place where the sun shines on your property.

[blackcat]

"Break out your credit card if that’s what you want and preferably like ‘everybody else’ move to a place where the sun shines on your property"

I see more solar panels in upstate NY than I do in Florida.

[Tusayan]

Solar panels generate about 10-25% of sunny day power in poor weather.  So everything is fine if your credit card has a proportionately high limit, and your property is large.

[twowheeladdict]

I guess it's OK that some of the stuff in those batteries are mined by child labor somewhere in Africa then right?

As long as they are making a living wage.   

There was a time when child labor was the norm, not the exception.  Now they are legally children until the age of 27 since they can still be under their parents insurance. 

How many of us were delivering papers when we were children?

[twowheeladdict]

This depends on where you live. In Seattle and Vancouver, 98 to 99% of electricity comes from carbon-free sources -- almost 90% is hydro. The Northeast and Quebec have a ton of hydro too. Nationwide, Canada is 67% carbon-free sources now. France is mostly nuclear, Iceland is 100% hydro and geothermal. In 2020 the US grid was 40% carbon-free, including 20% nuclear, 7% hydro, 8% wind etc. Coal was down to 19%. The Northwest gets 2/3 of its power from hydro, Iowa is 54% wind, even Kansas is now 47% wind. We'll be at majority of the grid carbon-free pretty damn soon.

Don't forget the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA).  According to energy.gov there are 2400 active hydroelectric plants in the USA.

[twowheeladdict]

Certainly in the US, nuclear isn’t going to expand, hydro isn’t going to expand and tidal power etc are pipe dreams.  The only renewables that can expand on the grid are solar and wind, assuming permitting were to allow it.  Increasingly bigger and better equipment won’t hurt but in order to meet demand for all cars to become electric and renewable powered, solar and wind combined energy on the grid needs to expand by a factor of five (IIRC last time I calculated it), that is assuming that nothing else on the grid also wants to convert to renewable energy. 

Electric cars are going to be limited utility commuter vehicles making fairly efficient use of natural gas plus coal generated energy for the foreseeable future, with natural gas increasingly taking over coal.  The exception is places like France where they can increase nuclear output if desired, and also where individuals are willing and able to generate their own solar power at home. Break out your credit card if that’s what you want and preferably like ‘everybody else’ move to a place where the sun shines on your property.

Why do you say Hydro isn't going to expand?  According to energy.gov there are 80.000 dams in the US with 2400 producing electricity.  Hydro could easily expand without being a blemish on the landscape like wind turbines. 

[Tusayan]

Why do you say Hydro isn't going to expand?  According to energy.gov there are 80.000 dams in the US with 2400 producing electricity.  Hydro could easily expand without being a blemish on the landscape like wind turbines.

For better or worse, there are a lot of people in the US who don’t like dams, generally as a result of the their environmental impact.  I’m sure more will be built in places like a China, but not in the US.  This article lays out some of the ‘issues’ that people discuss.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/after-a-long-boom-an-uncertain-future-for-big-dam-projects

In my area we have a number of dams providing water reservoirs.  When the local government found cracks in one of them, they lowered the water level for safety then started planning a replacement in essentially the same location.  After about a decade of planning and design, the state government ruled that they couldn’t raise the water level if they built a new dam, because the environment on the shoreline of the reservoir had reverted to a natural state.  So now they are starting over with a plan to repair the existing 100 year old dam, at great expense added to already sunk money.  This is legally different because the water level can be varied behind an existing dam.

That’s the kind of obstacles faced to build a new dam, even when its replacing an existing one.

[twowheeladdict]

While on the subject of the EV. I just read where Ford is releasing the F150 Lighting and it’s a darn impressive vehicle that I believe will sell like hot cakes. There are two versions of battery power, 230 mile range and a 300 range. I’ve always predicted that once they hit 300 miles they would began to sell in numbers.
However don’t run out snd buy one thinking you’ll best the system because you will be paying a federal government road use tax along with your purchase:( they’ve got you coming snd going)

Yep, and Tennessee gets an extra $100 a year to register an EV.

[twowheeladdict]

For better or worse, there are a lot of people in the US who don’t like dams, generally as a result of the their environmental impact.  I’m sure more will be built in places like a China, but not in the US.  This article lays out some of the ‘issues’ that people discuss.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/after-a-long-boom-an-uncertain-future-for-big-dam-projects

In my area we have a number of dams providing water reservoirs.  When the local government found cracks in one of them, they lowered the water level for safety then started planning a replacement in essentially the same location.  After about a decade of planning and design, the state government ruled that they couldn’t raise the water level if they built a new dam, because the environment on the shoreline of the reservoir had reverted to a natural state.  So now they are starting over with a plan to repair the existing 100 year old dam, at great expense added to already sunk money.  This is legally different because the water level can be varied behind an existing dam.

That’s the kind of obstacles faced to build a new dam, even when its replacing an existing one.

And what state do you live in sir?

Current dams can be fitted with hydro plants, and there is a lot of untapped potential.  Size and output based on flow.  My son will generate his winter power through personal hydro because not enough solar collection during the rainy season.

[sidecarnutz]

Yes , the goofy meme that shows an E vehicle hooked to a coal fired power plant is pretty much nonsense .
 Don't blink . As for the $1.00 charging machine , even a small bike is gonna burn 3 gallons of fuel in 225 miles , you do the math .

 Most of us will be gone before the IC engine disappears , in discussion with young folks , most don't have a love affair with the design , almost all of them are so accustomed to carrying battery powered devices that the idea of E vehicles fits into their zeitgeist .

 Dusty

My "small" bike is a RE 650 GT. I typically go 250 miles or more and then do a 2.2 gallon fill up. The Euro 4 spec ICE's are quite efficient.

[oldbike54]

My "small" bike is a RE 650 GT. I typically go 250 miles or more and then do a 2.2 gallon fill up. The Euro 4 spec ICE's are quite efficient.

 Are you claiming over 100 MPG ? I am highly skeptical , sorry bud .

 Dusty

[bad Chad]

There is no way you’re getting 113 mpg out of a 650 RE.

[lucky phil]

There is no way you’re getting 113 mpg out of a 650 RE.

Mine gets 58 mpg 2 up carrying a total of 330 lbs rider and pillion on undulating country back roads.

Ciao

[krglorioso]

My "small" bike is a RE 650 GT. I typically go 250 miles or more and then do a 2.2 gallon fill up. The Euro 4 spec ICE's are quite efficient.

I must question this claim.  My '21 Royal Enfield 650 Interceptor gets topped off around 150 miles.  Takes about 2.2to 2.3  gallons to fill up.  This puts the fuel consumption at 65 mpg on average.  Did you mean 250 miles between fill-ups or 150 miles?  I'm under 140# and ride usually at 50-55 mph on rural TX back roads.  I thus am a pretty light consumer of fuel.

Ralph

[centauro]

HD is taking the path of least resistance; however, sooner or later they'll have to face the reality. The Livewire project was probably too ambitious and expensive and came too early. But the opportunity is still open to build an electric bike that is approachable to the masses.
May be they should purchase the Zero company and go from there.

[steven c]

They can buy Zero then shut them down like they did with Buell and Alta.

[Huzo]

I reckon it’s funny how some of you guys talk like you have some sort of choice in the matter...
My plan can’t fail.
When I can’t afford to buy fuel for my bike, I’ll die or buy a sailboat.

[Road Rocket]

 In general the push away from fossil fuels is good…Hopefully the charge won’t be lead by General Custer types who totally underestimate the challange…And I believe we have to try and use less energy overall…And total reliance on the electric grid could be putting all your eggs in one basket..always have a back up plan…

[sidecarnutz]

I must question this claim.  My '21 Royal Enfield 650 Interceptor gets topped off around 150 miles.  Takes about 2.2to 2.3  gallons to fill up.  This puts the fuel consumption at 65 mpg on average.  Did you mean 250 miles between fill-ups or 150 miles?  I'm under 140# and ride usually at 50-55 mph on rural TX back roads.  I thus am a pretty light consumer of fuel.

Ralph

Sorry. I did screw up the math. More like 150 miles on a 2.3 gallon fill up.

[Jack Straw]

BS, MS, piled higher and deeper............. ...

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Can-Am (2 wheeled) motorcycles return... electric. https://youtu.be/a_9b8WBZIHE