Author Topic: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!  (Read 46642 times)

pete roper

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #210 on: August 28, 2019, 10:25:26 PM »
So, I have to ask: are all the 2012 model year CARC bikes a clutch spring time bomb?

No, it seems there was a small batch of rotten plates, most if not all of them went in Stelvios. By no means are all 2012's time bombs. Mine still had its original clutch when I swapped in the 1400 motor and it was fine. Sure it had the 'Stelvio Groan' but nothing ever went wrong with it and it had done 110,000Km plus.

The thing to worry about more is whether the bike was built before the change to roller tappets!

Pete

Offline Motormike

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #211 on: August 29, 2019, 09:10:16 PM »
Good to know.  I rollerized my 12 Griso some time back, so no worries there. 

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #212 on: August 30, 2019, 04:08:48 AM »
No, it seems there was a small batch of rotten plates, most if not all of them went in Stelvios. By no means are all 2012's time bombs. Mine still had its original clutch when I swapped in the 1400 motor and it was fine. Sure it had the 'Stelvio Groan' but nothing ever went wrong with it and it had done 110,000Km plus.

The thing to worry about more is whether the bike was built before the change to roller tappets!

Pete

Did 1400 get sussed ? Last bit I saw was breathing issue, maybe I missed the fix ?

pete roper

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #213 on: August 30, 2019, 04:35:38 AM »
Its a work in progress. Other builders of larger capacity 8V's are having problems too. The issue is almost certainly a matter of crankcase volume. Once my Stelvio is mapped correctly we'll find if the 1400 bottom end architecture helps address the problem. My own feeling is that taking the engine out that much is really pushing the friendship but I have no conclusive evidence yet.

Pete

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #213 on: August 30, 2019, 04:35:38 AM »

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #214 on: August 30, 2019, 05:08:04 AM »
So this one is 1400 engine with 1200 heads ? Hadnít realised, makes sense to try.
But do std 1400ís have problems if ridden like stolen ?
Low volume cases with good valve system should work, like high revving big singles, or more direct comparo Ducati 1298 or whatever current big twin is, Triumph parallel twin even bigger, 1800 ?

If this works, the difference is interesting, post results please

Its a work in progress. Other builders of larger capacity 8V's are having problems too. The issue is almost certainly a matter of crankcase volume. Once my Stelvio is mapped correctly we'll find if the 1400 bottom end architecture helps address the problem. My own feeling is that taking the engine out that much is really pushing the friendship but I have no conclusive evidence yet.

Pete

pete roper

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #215 on: August 30, 2019, 06:59:28 AM »
1400's are prone to it too, although less so if thrashed mercilessly from new. What I'll be very interested in is how much difference going to the 1400 sump and plumbing makes.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #216 on: August 31, 2019, 04:29:32 AM »
1400's are prone to it too, although less so if thrashed mercilessly from new.

There is a clue in that, unlikely to be coincidence
Leak down test between a goodie and a baddlie ?

pete roper

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #217 on: August 31, 2019, 05:04:48 AM »
Nope.

Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #218 on: August 31, 2019, 07:51:05 AM »
SMDL,  There is a way to not have to drop the transmission or abuse a good dog.  Just ride the second bike and forget about the troublesome one.
 You did say that it was  reliable
Sasquatch Jim        Humanoid, sort of.

Offline smdl

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #219 on: August 31, 2019, 09:37:05 AM »
SMDL,  There is a way to not have to drop the transmission or abuse a good dog.  Just ride the second bike and forget about the troublesome one.
 You did say that it was  reliable

Maybe so, Jim.  However, in this unique case, a little strong persuasion has resulted in a well-behaved partner in crime.  A little harrowing, but all worth it in the end.

Cheers,
Shaun
'74 Eldorado Police
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'75 850-T
'12 Stelvio NTX
'20 V85 TT

'71 Honda CB175 Super Sport
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Offline WARider

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #220 on: May 01, 2021, 05:06:33 AM »
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but I'm going through this job right now. Found pieces of the friction plate spring on the starter and starter well. Have the swing arm, exhaust and crash bars off. For some goofy reason I didn't take the tank of earlier so that comes off today along with much more.

Thanks for the details along your project Shaun. I'm hoping I can drop the engine this weekend.

Did you leave the survive in place with the throttle bodies attached? I'm wondering how I gain access to the motor mounts in the cylinder heads.

Rich
2013 Stelvio

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #221 on: May 01, 2021, 08:15:56 AM »
Are you pulling apart a Stelvio?
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Offline WARider

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #222 on: May 02, 2021, 12:48:56 PM »
Are you pulling apart a Stelvio?

Yes - 2013 that seems to have thrown a friction plate spring on my way to work.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #223 on: May 02, 2021, 02:36:30 PM »
Yes, they seem to come apart between 35-45'000mi, some not all, I've done 3 so far. Just a lot to take apart & put back. Got to take block breather plate off L/H front before it'll come out. Rest is basic Guzzi. Replacement is Cali14 clutch, better finger springs. Has to come completely out.
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Offline WARider

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #224 on: May 03, 2021, 05:05:06 AM »
You aren't kidding that there is a lot of taking apart! The engine is completely removed and I pulled the transmission off. Issue confirmed... Spring is thrown. Looks like a second one was getting ready to join it.

I'll order up the parts today and cross my fingers I can get it all back together. On the plus side, I've finally gotten around to doing I really good job cleaning the throttle bodies.



« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 05:15:47 AM by WARider »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #225 on: May 03, 2021, 11:36:12 AM »
Looks pretty similar, but, they have no problem----------


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Offline WARider

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #226 on: May 03, 2021, 11:50:29 AM »
You've done it 3 times already??? On the same bike? Do the Cali 1400 clutch springs go out as well?

Just ordered up the clutch kit. Going to replace the alternator belt while the engine is out. Think I am at 60k miles.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #227 on: May 03, 2021, 12:38:21 PM »
3 different bikes, 1 under warranty. 1400 clutch has better stuff and is the only one you can get now. Just did a 11 Stelvio over winter. I would replace the breather hoses that connect to the rear cam cap while everything is apart, they go way up front to under steering stem.
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Offline WARider

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #228 on: May 03, 2021, 01:00:13 PM »
I would replace the breather hoses that connect to the rear cam cap while everything is apart, they go way up front to under steering stem.

Are you referring to the ones that go from the blow-by box to the cylinder ports near the valve covers?  Mine seemed fine, but I need to order a few other parts from mgcycle so I could see if they have them.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #229 on: May 03, 2021, 01:16:24 PM »
Yes, they crack right by the cap, I used hose from auto parts.
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Offline smdl

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #230 on: May 11, 2021, 11:43:26 PM »
WARider, sincere apologies for the late reply.  Seems like you are making good progress, and Steve is providing much more expertise than I ever could.  However, if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

As an aside, I'm happy to report that the Cal 1400 clutch continues to work perfectly some 22,000 kms later.

Cheers,
Shaun
'74 Eldorado Police
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'75 850-T
'12 Stelvio NTX
'20 V85 TT

'71 Honda CB175 Super Sport
'10 Kawasaki Ninja 250

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #231 on: May 12, 2021, 07:50:39 AM »
Just curious and asking without prejudice.
What is the major or even mine differences between this clutch/pressure plate and most all the other major brands that this issue is mostly non existent?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 03:31:03 PM by Ncdan »

Offline smdl

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #232 on: May 12, 2021, 12:20:52 PM »
Just curious and asking within prejudice.
What is the major or even mine differences between this clutch/pressure plate and most all the other major brands that this issue is mostly non existent?

My understanding is that this was related to a bad batch of clutches, and that the newer design doesn't have this problem. 

That's all I know.

Cheers,
Shaun
'74 Eldorado Police
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'75 850-T
'12 Stelvio NTX
'20 V85 TT

'71 Honda CB175 Super Sport
'10 Kawasaki Ninja 250

Offline WARider

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Re: Horrors in My Bellhousing!!
« Reply #233 on: May 12, 2021, 12:57:56 PM »
My understanding is that this was related to a bad batch of clutches, and that the newer design doesn't have this problem. 

I sure hope you are right Shaun. Looking forward to many miles of fun without having to drop the engine to replace another clutch plate.

Have all the parts in hand now and will be starting reassembly on Friday. Wish me luck that I don't forget to connect up something requiring major disassembly again.

 

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