Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild

[Rick4003]

So I have finally been able to do some work on the bike and also getting to ride it a bit. There has been some up's and down's but we're moving in the right direction.

I was still waiting for my tank to be repainted as there had been a small damage to the paint under the tank filler, the painter didn't want to put the new decals on without me overlooking the process. So that delayed the job a bit.

Tank has received new decals and is ready for clear coat.

While I was waiting for the tank to get finished, I fixed some issues I found last time around.

I helicoiled the rear drives drain plug as the threads were stripping. I ended up chucking the rear drive up in the pillar drill, but I admit it wasn't the best setup, even with plenty of grease I didn't catch all the chips as some fell into the drive. Luckily I could get most of it out again, so I don't expect any issues with it.

The exhaust showed to be a major job as it was close to impossible to get the damn connection pipe out from one of the mufflers. It did come out in the end, so all was good and I could put back the exhaust without leaks.


Changed the rear master cylinder from the 15m to an 11mm. Before I had a rock hard brake pedal without being able to get any braking power from it. The change to the 11mm MC changed the pedal so I have a bit more travel and more braking power so that's nice.


Made a new bracket for the brake fluid reservoir as the original aluminium bracket broke of on the first trip after getting the tank back on.


Bike after getting the tank back together.

After getting the bike back together and up and running I got 150km out of the bike before the flywheel bolts snapped and I had to push the bike home the last 6km   

So back to splitting the bike apart again...




All bolts had snapped.

I suspect this aluminium spacer to be the culprit of the snapped bolts. It was used to space the flywheel from the crank. I think the aluminium has been squashed by the bolts and the bolts has loosened up over time and go so loose that they didn't clamp the flywheel anymore leading to me pushing instead of riding.


Is there any of you that has seen this kind of flywheel clutch package before? It looks pretty DIY to me. The ring gear is the actual guzzi ring gear that has been flipped around and modified to fit the car like pressure plate.


And this is how you look when you just pushed 6km home in the middle of the night. Up hill for the last two kilometers 


Original flywheel back on the engine.


Back together after the clutch change.


The bike had this hydraulic clutch cylinder when I bought it and I figured I would try it out now that all the plumping for it was already there. Honestly I don't know how good idea that was as it seems like I have nothing but problems with the damn thing. If I can find a clutch lever that matches the brake I'm very tempted to throw the hydraulic one very far away!

So far I have found that the clutch master cylinder is leaking so you can pull the clutch and it declutches very shortly and then the pressure drops and the clutch grips again. The first rides on the bike it was possible to ride it still and I got it to work pretty well but it went down hill on the last ride to the point where it was completely unrideable. I guess a seal kit is in order.

That's all for this time around. I only have a few days left in Denmark and a seal kit can't arrive soon enough to make sense to fix it this time around. I'm also rebuilding the engine for my old Alfa Romeo, so I have plenty of things to do

-Ulrik

-edit to fix typo 13/11/2017

[perter]

That's a lot of trouble for a summer "vacation"  - Guzzi's are way more fun to ride than to push.

As for the hydraulic clutch I would recommend to go back to the mechanical setup. It's not that hard to pull and unless you drive in stop&go traffic it's not an issue IMO.

It's a shame you can't enjoy the nice riding weather the last day's you are here...

[Rick4003]

Yeah, I have been working quite much this "vacation", we also remounted the fuel injection pump back on my buddys Alfa Romeo Montreal, that was also a big job :) So lots of wrenching in the last months time.

If I can find a cable clutch lever that matches the brembo PS16 master brake cylinder then I will definitely consider very strongly to change it out. One little problem with it might be that there will be space issues with the rear brake master. But I would think that it will fit. Even if it will be a tight fit. I will definitely try it out if I continue to have problems with the hydraulic one. First try will be a new seal kit as this is only 20euro and a new setup with clutch lever and a new cable will be a lot more than that.

-Ulrik

[Rick4003]

A few pictures of the other projects as I know you guys like pictures
Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT 1967:
Engine ready to be taken out:

On it's way:


And completely removed.
The engine is currently taken apart and all the parts are getting prepared for putting back together again. The main and rod bearings was completely shot and had to be ground to second and third undersize. I hit a roadblock yesterday when I found out that one of the new pistons didn't match the others, luckily the parts supplier has send off a new piston and liner today on express shipping, so I should have it this week. The three identical pistons have been balanced to 490,3grams each. This was the weight of the lightest piston including rings and wrist pin and the two others were matched to this weight. Now I just need to balance the last piston to this weight to get all four to be exactly the same weight. And then assemble it all of course.

Alfa Romeo Montreal 1971: (not mine)

Spica pump has been refitted after getting rebuild by specialist. All fuel hoses has also been changed and a lot of other small jobs have been carried out. Tomorrow we will go and pickup the car from a specialist who rebuild the rear axle and some other jobs that my friend didn't have time to fix himself.


And a small teaser of my new bike

I bought it in the current state and have bought a new wiring loom from Gregory Bender including his relay solution. There is a lot of other small jobs that also needed. Lot of the cables need proper fittings and throttle and choker cables need to be made or fixed. Mostly small jobs, but I don't have anymore time to get it fixed this time. Work has been focused on the other Guzzi, my Alfa and some small jobs on my classic mini which I'm using as my service car/ daily driver.

-Ulrik

[perter]

I have a similar rear master setup than yours, perhaps a bit further out since I run Tarozzi rearset.

But as far as clearance, you should be all set if the master is "outside" the bottom rails, I can shoot a picture if you need

[Rick4003]

Okay, I'm sure I can make it fit, if there is small clearance issues I can just space the master cylinder out a bit and change the bracket on the pedal arm.

The master cylinder is outside the bottom rails already so there should not be any trouble with running the cable through.
I will try the seal kit and if that doesn't work I will change it back to cable. It is just a lot more work as the slave cylinder seems to be pretty well stuck in the bore. We'll see in a years time or when ever I get back to work on it.

I got married and there's a baby girl coming in October, so I don't expect to have a lot of chances to work on the bike :-)

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[balvenie]

Rick4003
Your buddy has a Montreal?
Filth
Your "new" bike looks very good by the way

[Chuck in Indiana]

I got married and there's a baby girl coming in October,

Congrats. Oh, that won't change your life.  You'll still have *plenty* of time for all these projects.. 

[Rick4003]

Rick4003
Your buddy has a Montreal?
Filth

He does indeed Super cool car, we drove it to Denmark from Rome where he bought it. That was a pretty nice roadtrip  Only the radiator fan broke down. But the more we fix on the car the more surprised we are that we made it all the way home

Your "new" bike looks very good by the way

It does doesn't it! I'm looking so much forward to getting some time to finish it up! But that will probably be some years from now

Congrats. Oh, that won't change your life.  You'll still have *plenty* of time for all these projects.. 

Yeah That's what I been telling everyone! It won't change a thing, I will still be having lots of time on my hands

-Ulrik

[perter]

Yeah That's what I been telling everyone! It won't change a thing, I will still be having lots of time on my hands

-Ulrik

Ulrik - Don't worry, it will not be permanent. I got four kids, 3, 7, 9 and 11yrs.... and I still have time for my Guzzi. I even get commanded to take a ride some times when I've been too grumpy, but I'm also very well married (ps. my wife is reading over my shoulder)

[Rick4003]

Ulrik - Don't worry, it will not be permanent. I got four kids, 3, 7, 9 and 11yrs.... and I still have time for my Guzzi. I even get commanded to take a ride some times when I've been too grumpy, but I'm also very well married (ps. my wife is reading over my shoulder)

I don't expect it to be permanent, but I do expect to be quite busy the first year I'm also starting a new job in November, so lots of things to learn.

We're planning of moving to Denmark from Indonesia next year, so I hope to get my workshop up and running, then I should be able to get some more wrenching time

-Ulrik 

[Frenchfrog]

Lovely job Rick....you are aware that the moto-spezial hydraulic clutch isn't compatible with brake fluid? maybe that's the problem...they insist on Glysantin( german-can't remember what that is in English !) being the onl suitable fluid to avoid their seals perishing.

[Rick4003]

Lovely job Rick....you are aware that the moto-spezial hydraulic clutch isn't compatible with brake fluid? maybe that's the problem...they insist on Glysantin( german-can't remember what that is in English !) being the onl suitable fluid to avoid their seals perishing.

I was not aware of this, Thanks for letting me know. I have not been able to find the manufacturer of the hydraulic clutch, but now I googled Moto-spezial, you are right it is definitely their clutch cylinder. I guess that the seals are already shot now then. I will have to find a replacement set and some of this Glysantin fluid.

From a quick trip to google, Glysantin seems to be a cooling liquid, seems to be a strange choice to use for clutch liquid. I have to look into this.

-Ulrik

[Frenchfrog]

This guy has taken over on some of the moto spezial bits  including the hydro clutch.

http://radicalguzzi.com/motor_getriebe

Likely to have seals and advice!

[Rick4003]

Yes I found out that radical guzzi had taken over the parts. Might be worth it to send him an email.

I might change out the cylinder with a home made one that can deal with brake fluid. I'm thinking seals from a mastercylinder would do the job. They are super cheap and with a bit of lathe work and a quick trip to the milling machine, a new slave cylinder should be a easy thing to make.

-Ulrik

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[Rick4003]

One thing I dislike about the Moto-spezial one is that it is a pain in the butt to bleed the air out of it. So if I make a new one I would make a little riser pipe that moves the bleed nipple to the left side, just above the gear arm on the back of the gearbox. Then it should be easy to get to, and the clutch fluid should be easy to clean off if there is any spills while bleeding.

-Ulrik

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[Rick4003]

Update! Or not really, but I found out where my old lightweight clutch pressure plate came from!


This is the clutch that fell of the crank.


And this one is according to ebay a clutch for a v7 classic 2008 to 2011. Looks very similar to mine.

So the pressure plate has been taken from the small block and then the ringgear from the bigblock has been flipped front to back and drilled to mate up with the small block pressure plate. The clutch disk is a single one from the normal dual plate big block clutch.

Mystery solved!

Oh and no there is no other progress on the bike. I haven't been in Denmark for long enough to work on it. Only landed at 06.00 on tuesday and took off at 18:00 on the same day. Only enough time to race to my parents to pick up my stored winter clothes


It still looks like this. But now with a small bubble on the tank just next to the filler cap... Guess I should have filled in the void with lead instead of letting the painter fill it with body filler.

And I have a plan to make up a new hydraulic clutch slave cylinder to replace the moto spezial one currently on it. It will be made of stainless steel and will have a "remote" air bleed screw so it shouldn't be necessary to take the bike half apart to bleed the clutch. (Yes I know changing to the cable clutch would be easier, but then my clutch and brake levers doesn't match anymore... )

-Ulrik

[Aldo]

Ulrik,

Curious as to what jetting you used on your PHF36 carbs, if you recall? Thanks!

Aldo

[perter]

I got married and there's a baby girl coming in October, so I don't expect to have a lot of chances to work on the bike :-)

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Hey Rick, what happened to this project? Guess you are more concerned about changing diapers and get some sleep than working on your italian mistress ;-)

[Rick4003]

Ulrik,

Curious as to what jetting you used on your PHF36 carbs, if you recall? Thanks!

Aldo

Hi Aldo,

Honestly I can't remember. I have to install some bigger idle jets as it is popping on stable throttle openings less than 1/8 open. At bigger throttle openings it runs pretty well for now, but I have to get some more time on it to get it jetted properly.

When I do get back on the project I'll post the settings. But don't hold your breath. It won't be any time soon.

-Ulrik

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[Rick4003]

Hey Rick, what happened to this project? Guess you are more concerned about changing diapers and get some sleep than working on your italian mistress ;-)

Hej Perter,

The project is still on, but I don't have any possibility to work on the bike for now. We are currently living in Bali and the bike is in Denmark. Just got a new job too so all my traveling are spend on the job. Next job on the bike is to fit a new clutch cylinder or change it out to cable. But when that will happen I don't know. My dad sold the workshop so all my tools are in storage. I expect I won't have a proper place to work until I get a house in DK to move all the stuff and tools to. So progress will be slow.

The project isn't stopped just on hold for a bit

-Ulrik



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[perter]

Ulrik,

Curious as to what jetting you used on your PHF36 carbs, if you recall? Thanks!

Aldo

Hi Aldo
I run PHF36's on my SP1000 and have fiddled a while with jetting. I ended up running 136 mains' AR268 Atomizers, K18 Needle in lowest position (Clip at top) and 70 pilot jets. With this combo the idle mixture screw is ~1 3/4 out and there is absolutely no popping and it pulls even up to 7500

I found part of my problem was improper float setting and did a readjustment according to this instruction (left picture) https://www.ducatimeccanica.com/float_levels.html

[Aldo]

Hi Aldo
I run PHF36's on my SP1000 and have fiddled a while with jetting. I ended up running 136 mains' AR268 Atomizers, K18 Needle in lowest position (Clip at top) and 70 pilot jets. With this combo the idle mixture screw is ~1 3/4 out and there is absolutely no popping and it pulls even up to 7500

I found part of my problem was improper float setting and did a readjustment according to this instruction (left picture) https://www.ducatimeccanica.com/float_levels.html

Thanks Perter

[Aldo]

Hi Aldo,

Honestly I can't remember. I have to install some bigger idle jets as it is popping on stable throttle openings less than 1/8 open. At bigger throttle openings it runs pretty well for now, but I have to get some more time on it to get it jetted properly.

When I do get back on the project I'll post the settings. But don't hold your breath. It won't be any time soon.

-Ulrik

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My thanks. Safe travels and hope to hear your carb specs at your earliest convenience , cheers, Aldo

[canuck750]

Great taste in motorcycles and cars!

[Rick4003]

Great taste in motorcycles and cars!

Thanks Jim, I tend to agree although they seldom work, but that's just due to lack of time from my side.

-Ulrik

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[Rick4003]

So I'm back in Denmark, have pulled the T5 out of storage and got started on the clutch issue.

Turns out that the master cylinder has been sleeved and fitted with X-ring seals. I have been able to find new seals and should be able to rebuild it no problems.
Sleeve and piston as fitted to the mastercylinder.


Piston assembly removed.


Old slave cylinder as mounted to the bike. Notice how the bleeding screw is positioned. This is the main reason why I want to make a new cylinder to replace it.


Old slave cylinder disassembled.


After a few hours on the lathe I ended up with this. A few more bits are needed to complete the cylinder.


Closeup of piston assembly. The one on the left is the slug that fits in the end of the gearbox that pushes on the thrust bearing. The right one is the piston itself. The lower groove is for an x-ring dust seal and the top is for the U-seal that will be the main seal. The seal is not flexible enough to being fitted by forcing it around the outside diameter, so I made the piston two part with a small disk that is pressed on after the seal is fitted. See next pictures. The small rod to the left is a pushrod that will sit between the piston and the slug in the gearbox so there won't be any problems if there is a bit of misalignment between the slavecylinder and the bore in the gearbox.


Piston with U-seal fitted and x-ring dust seal beside it.


Side view


Completely assembled piston with both seals.



This is as far as I managed to get yesterday. Today I'm having a trip to Copenhagen, so won't be able to work on it until tomorrow. I count on finishing up on Wednesday and getting the bike back together and on the road :)

-Ulrik

[balvenie]

What a lovely job

[canuck750]

Great workmanship! :1:

[Rick4003]

Thanks for the comment guys :)

I got some time in on Tuesday anyway as I came back from Copenhagen quite early.

Welding of the side plates.


Welding of the adjuster slug


First test fitting.


One of many test fittings, now with the bleeder pipe welded on. The bleeding fitting exits just above the geararm, very easy to get to, forgot to take a picture, will post a picture tomorrow.


Seen from above


Finished slave cylinder, piston and bolts for adjuster and special M6 banjo bolt.


Before welding the cylinder was bored to an undersize so I could make the finish bore after welding to avoid issues with distortion from the welding.
Seen from front side


Piston and tool for fitting the piston to the cylinder. The U-seal requires a big chamfer to being able to push it in the bore. I could not make a sufficient chamfer on the cylinder itself, so I made a special tool that has the chamfer and a recess underneath that fits snugly on the slave cylinder.


Fitted on the slave cylinder ready for installation of the piston.


Final installation, now complete with bleed screw, bracket for the pipe and the piston has been installed. The push rod that sits in between the piston and the thrust bushing has been lubed liberally with sticky lithium grease, because that was what I had. The rest of the pins and bolts have also been lubed with lithium grease.


Finally fully assembled and ready for the test ride!


Test ride went very well and the clutch works beautifully :)
Planning to sort out some other small issues tomorrow and counting on going on a trip to Switzerland in the weekend, have to go visit the office, and why fly when there is tonnes of great roads, both on the way there and especially down there! 

Will update the next few things that needs sorting later this week. :)

-Ulrik