Wildguzzi.com
General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: Stu on May 07, 2020, 06:48:00 AM
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Hello, everybody!
Quick intro, even though I've done it elsewhere... I'm Stu, 62, from Wiltshire, UK. Been riding since I was 17. Spent 20 years out in South Africa through the 80s and 90's during which time I had a Ducati MHR and rode with lots of Guzzi guys in the IMOC. >> to last week and one of those same Guzzi guys sends me a link to an ad for an 850-T3... which needless to say is now in my garage and the subject of this thread.
:gotpics: I hear you say? Coming soon.
Been doing a bit of digging on the bike. It was first registered in UK on 3rd Feb 1976. That's about 9 months after I got my first bike (FS1E!) and a similar time before I passed my test on a 250.
Hasn't had an MOT since the electronic system came out, and tax ran out in Dec 1990. She's spent the last 30 years stationary. The front tyre (a Pirelli Phantom) has an "066" date code, so that's mid Feb 86. 15000 miles on the clock... could just be genuine!
Condition is fairly dodgy, she's obviously been down on both sides as there are scratches on crash bars and grab rail, and she has the wrong fork stanchions fitted (longer ones off later model). Also evidence of some mechanical ineptitude (bent fins on barrels) and some dodgy eighties customizing (nickel plated frame :lipsrsealed:). Paint is black rattle can special.
Seller had cleaned out sump and carbs, new oil and filter, fixed the brakes, and got it running. Rest is up to me...
And the title of this thread? Guess what was top of the UK singles chart on 3rd Feb 1976? Yep, ABBA with Mamma Mia! Seemed as appropriate a name for an old Italian lady as any. :wink:
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(https://i.ibb.co/RTcQfg4/37-E17-FAD-A2-A7-48-BA-86-A1-6172-A2-CA39-D1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RTcQfg4)
Yes, it's horrible, I know!
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So Mamma arrived Monday morning and it's now Thursday, so there are already a few things to report.
First is a comedy of errors... The ignition switch (probably original) had been drilled through and worked with half a broken key. The bike came with a spare new one from Gutsibits, so I set about fixing it. New switch has spades and the old one bullets, so chop off the bullets and fit nice new heatshrinky spade terminals. Then try and fit the new switch. The very water resistant new terminals are too stiff to bend in the right place to get the loom to miss the bolts... a little bit too much force and the bottom pops off the new switch springing all the little pingfuckits everywhere. Two attempts at reassembly later, I decide it's a lost cause and make up some jumper cables... ignition comes on and life is fine. Tank back on temporarily and she bursts into life and settles down to a contented and not too rattly idle... lovely.
Now I haven't wasted the time while waiting for Mamma to be delivered, I've been reading all the horror stories on t'internet about what goes wrong with these things and I have, of course, heard all about chrome bores and don't, whatever you do, start an old T3 that has been sitting for 30 years. Unfortunately PO has already got it going and ridden it down the road, so all a bit late for finding out. Anyway, before we go any further, best find out the worst... Off with her heads!
To cut a long story short, some kind soul has, long time past, bored the barrels out and fitted cast liners. These are relatively new, with no wear whatsoever. Win! If I'm being honest, they ain't perfect. They've been sitting a long time and there has been a bit of rust in there. They're clean with a little bit of pitting in one bore, but there are worse horrors on this beast, so for now they're going back together. For the price of a couple of gaskets, I'll run it for a while and find out what else is wrong before I have to buy new barrels and pistons at some point in the future.
Quick look around and a read through Mr Haynes finest service schedule... The oil and filters been done and the brake fluid refreshed by the PO. Gearbox and Final drive oil hasn't, so I've ordered some of that, along with a new air filter element (yes, it's still fitted!).
Tyres are a 34 year old Phantom (with lots of tread left, shame to waste it :evil:) and a 32 year old bald Dunlop. Ordered a new set of Bridgestone BT46s this morning in nice narrow 100/90 and 110/90 sizes. Borrani rims look good and run straight with no dings that I can see. Another win.
Plan is to get the heads back on when the bits arrive (Please, Mr Postman), finish the service, and get the thing onto a historic registration and out on the road... hopefully our lockdown will be over soon and we'll be allowed out to play.
The rest of the horrors will be attacked piecemeal while keeping her mobile... I've done two restorations on bikes a lot younger than this that took four years of guilt and anguish each... this ones a roller. Plan is to eventually get her reliable and half presentable in a high mileage, patina'd way, not a resto...
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Sounds like a good plan!! You know once you get the worst sorted, there is no saying you cant just ride the thing and fix stuff while its a rider. Good to hear you have cast liners in the bores. Thats the big one right there. Ive run a lot of engines with some pitting from sitting, and while maybe not the best... Ive gotten good service out of them. A little clean up hone, and make sure the rings are fine and ship it! Enjoy the project!
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Thanks for the encouragement.
I've spent a few hours cleaning things up a bit. Some ancient owner thought it would be cool to paint the cylinder heads black. Thirty years on, about 20% of it is missing and it looks awful. I popped the valves out, degreased the heads and covered them in paint stripper. After two goes, it's getting better but still needs another couple of goes and now I've run out of stripper!
More importantly, the exhaust valves have been running a bit tight and the seats need lapping. Can't find my old kit, so have ordered a new one. Valve guides are ok, so it'll all go back together.
I'm having problems with not rebuilding everything as new. I am NOT restoring this bike!
Yet. :rolleyes:
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That's a really nice project, the normal T3 instead of the california's look like a motorcycle should. Especially with the borrani wire wheels. And I think it's very cool to make the bike ridable and reliable without restoring it, makes the bike have more history!
How are the electricals? Is the wiring still okay and not ''improved'' by previous owners?
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Thanks. Yes, I've never been a massive fan of footboards in any guise really; I'm just not that guy. The standard T3 is still pretty laid back compared to all the other Italian vees I've had!
History is something this bike doesn't have for me... I've been hoping someone on here or FB would say "hey, that's my old bike!" but nothing so far.
The wiring seems ok, so far... everything seems to work. It's all very original, switches (ugh!) And points ignition. Headlight has been swapped out along with fork stanchions and headlight brackets so probably a front ender at some time. Needs another replacement ignition switch since my cock up last week.
I'm concentrating on getting it running safely at the moment and will then fix stuff as it shows up. Not sure what to do with paint. It's not original and it's pretty nasty but repainting it will look too new. I may sand it down a bit and see how it cleans up or falls off. I'm fairly handy with a rattle can, which will be appropriate for this "beauty".
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One question? Has anyone acquired the knack of reassembling the air filter tube thing under the tank? Having two pairs of eyes and three arms would be really useful. (Zaphod! I've got a job for you :evil:).
I consulted Guzziology, which suggests taking the distributor off and giving it a service at the same time, so you can remove the filter box and do it off the bike... probably a great idea, but I really want to do one thing at once here and not try to fix stuff that seems to be working (with the likelihood of adding new problems to the mix).
I should probably have left the old filter in for now, but pleased I didn't... it's fairly disgusting and given the supposed low mileage, may have been fitted by Luigi at the factory.
I assume this instrument of torture is the reason every T3 I've ever seen has K&N type filters on?
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That’s a wonderful bike to ride as is or restore as much or as little as you want. If you have access to a vapor blaster locally those cylinders and heads will clean right up.
(https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e27/Zehnderllc/37303A6F-6799-4B63-AB27-67573C329F9C_zpshaclr8dh.jpeg) (https://s36.photobucket.com/user/Zehnderllc/media/37303A6F-6799-4B63-AB27-67573C329F9C_zpshaclr8dh.jpeg.html)
Best of luck.
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Here am I determined not to restore my bike and you're showing me porn pictures of nice shiny bits! :rolleyes:
I work (on the Engineering side) for a company that designs, supplies and overhauls rail components. In the strip and clean shop of the overhaul side of the business are some lovely industrial cleaning machines including vapour blasting, shot blasting and some of the biggest "dishwashers" you've ever seen. I've had three or four sets of engine components in the vapour blaster, and am getting quite good at it. Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, I'm working from home and not allowed in that area of the factory, due to --19 restrictions.
Maybe next time it comes apart...
As a query... are those cylinders in your picture the Chrome bores?
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One question? Has anyone acquired the knack of reassembling the air filter tube thing under the tank? Having two pairs of eyes and three arms would be really useful. (Zaphod! I've got a job for you :evil:).
I consulted Guzziology, which suggests taking the distributor off and giving it a service at the same time, so you can remove the filter box and do it off the bike... probably a great idea, but I really want to do one thing at once here and not try to fix stuff that seems to be working (with the likelihood of adding new problems to the mix).
I should probably have left the old filter in for now, but pleased I didn't... it's fairly disgusting and given the supposed low mileage, may have been fitted by Luigi at the factory.
I assume this instrument of torture is the reason every T3 I've ever seen has K&N type filters on?
Nice! Gotta love a HGG reference!!
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One question? Has anyone acquired the knack of reassembling the air filter tube thing under the tank? Having two pairs of eyes and three arms would be really useful. (Zaphod! I've got a job for you :evil:).
I consulted Guzziology, which suggests taking the distributor off and giving it a service at the same time, so you can remove the filter box and do it off the bike... probably a great idea, but I really want to do one thing at once here and not try to fix stuff that seems to be working (with the likelihood of adding new problems to the mix).
I should probably have left the old filter in for now, but pleased I didn't... it's fairly disgusting and given the supposed low mileage, may have been fitted by Luigi at the factory.
I assume this instrument of torture is the reason every T3 I've ever seen has K&N type filters on?
It was a while ago, but I've replaced pod filters with the original airbox on my V1000 G5 which is the same assembly as on the T3. I also remember it was quite an annoying task. I took out the battery and its straps and removed the fuel tank. Along with them, I might have loosened the carbs at the cylinder side but I'm not totally sure about that. It definitely required a lot of patience. Good luck! :thumb:
Also, are those Busso exhaust mufflers on your bike? They look similar to mine. How is the condition of your chrome?
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(https://i.ibb.co/kHMgWtM/CD2248-AA-9-D70-4-B9-D-9577-6-BD4859-CC295.png) (https://ibb.co/kHMgWtM)
Haha... battery, tank, carbs and cylinder heads are off at the moment... doesn't seem to help!
Silencers... they're marked Marmitta Brevettata Decibel. Guess you either love them or hate them. :wink:
They seem to strike a nice note between quiet and raucous just running it in the garage... they'll do nicely. And the chrome is Italian... :sad:
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Got an email today to say that the Bridgestone BT46 tyres I'd ordered would be delivered in about two months. Nope! Especially as they'd already charged my card.... Have ordered some Avon Roadriders instead.
Edit: And then, this morning, get a call from company I've ordered Avons from to say they aren't in stock! :rolleyes: I've just ordered BT46s again, from a different company who claims, on their website, to have stock... hope all the refunds come through!
Seems like tyre stocks are somewhat depleted/confused/inaccessible at the moment!
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Those BT46s are a new model, right? That might explain why they are not yet in stock? I'm currently running Metzeler Roadtec 01's on my Sport and they perform great, so that might be another option for you if the other company also cannot supply the bridgestones.
As for the air filter, maybe letting the rubber parts warm up in warm water will give you the flexibility you need to install them on the bike?
Interesting silencers, I haven't head of them but they might be the originals Busso ''copied'' the design from? I'm looking forward to see your bike running again! I was wondering, have you checked the camchain tensioner as well? the originals in the T3 I believe are solid rubber ones which must be manually adjusted. Replacing them with a valtec bow type adjuster is cheap and relatively easy.
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HI. Yeah, the BT46 has replaced the BT45 which has been around for 22 years, apparently. Thought if I was buying them I may as well have the updated design although they look identical and I'm sure I won't be troubling their limits of grip. The order has been acknowledged - seems that even though I bought them from a UK website they are coming from Andorra - or at least that's where the business is registered. I'd have been perfectly happy with Avon Roadriders, except that I want a 110/90-18 on the rear and Avon no longer make that size. Loads of people still advertising them, but no-one has stock. It's not a listed size in the new Roadrider II so I wouldn't ever be able to get more... The BT tread pattern is sort of more classic looking anyway. Hopefully these will arrive eventually - no big rush, not going anywhere in a hurry!
Air filter... not the rubber bits that are the issue tbh... it's just a lot of awkward bits to assemble in a difficult place and needs to be under axial force to get the nut on the end... maybe I haven't got the filter seated in the end properly. A second set of hands might help, if there was room to get them in.
Edit... and it's together. Big lever in one hand to compress it while fiddling the nut on with the other. Easy when you have the knack!
No, haven't checked the tensioner yet... thanks for the tip... let me get it running again first and I'll start fixing and modifying. I suspect an electronic ignition might be useful too.
Silencers... they sound OK, look a bit droopy to me. They don't have the axle cut out of the originals, so have to sit lower. They seem solid though and sound like a V twin should, so I guess they'll be around for a while. I may try to lift them a few mm and see if they look a bit better. Another job for another day... must start making a list!
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Had a very productive afternoon. My new can of paint stripper arrived, so I finished cleaning the heads up. Then my valve grinding kit arrived so I put that to good use too. Reassembled the heads, got them back on the bike, set the valve clearances, cleaned up and fitted the valve covers... I have an engine again. A bit cleaner than it was before, but still aged and unrestored... should have a bit more compression with valves that seal. I'm happy. Or I will be when it runs again.
Unfortunately my carb gaskets fell apart during the cleaning process, so I have to wait for new ones to arrive...
Still plenty of odds and sods to be getting on with...
And my Japanese made tyres have now been dispatched... from Villingen-Schwenningen in the Black Forest!
It's all coming together, really slowly.
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Busy again today. Started messing about with the paintwork. Then the postman arrived with some carb gaskets.
Fitted the carbs, popped the tank and seat back on, and, after messing about with a fouled plug (assembly oil in bores) I got her fired up and running.
Grabbed a helmet to take her round the block... got about 50 yards and she died. Started again, ran a similar distance, died again. I suspect electrical. Or mucky carbs... PO said he'd cleaned them but who knows.
Life is a series of problems to be solved. Life with an old motorcycle, doubly so. :wink:
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Wow you've got it running quick! The carbs are really easy to work on, so maybe remove them from the bike and put them in an ultrasonic cleaner. If you don't have acces to one, removing the jets and blowing the passages through with compressed air will work as well. Mr. Bender has a very nice walkthrough of refurbishing the carbs:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_rebuild_-__vhb.html
Hopefully you'll get it running right soon!
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Thanks, but turns out I'm just an idiot... with the fuel taps in the right position it works just fine. Found out by mistake that what I thought was reserve was off and vice versa! :embarrassed:
Just took her for a first spin, up the road a mile and back on the 80s tyres... they seem fine don't know why I'm wasting money on new ones! :wink:
Bike goes well, saw 65-70 on the clock briefly, seems to have all the gears and as many neutrals... brakes work after a fashion, all feels a bit stiff and hard work, but a lovely motor. I'm sure some things will get better with maintenance and others are what they are. I'm not expecting modern user friendliness.
Biggest problem is bad oil leak. Could be sump gasket or sump plug, but my guess is rear oil seal. Difficult to see exactly where it's coming from.
Next hurdle is historic registration and getting it "taxed" (free) and on my insurance.
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Quick update... Bridgestones have arrived ( in two separate deliveries, one from Hermes, one from Parcelforce... odd?). Will get them fitted as soon as I can get the wheels in to someone decent.
Bennetts have insured her for the princely sum of 97 quid for the year (although I also splashed out for decent breakdown cover) and thanks to the luverly lady in the post office, she's now on a historic registration and taxed for free! No MoT needed either, so we're all legal.
Bargain!
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Had to pop over to my folks yesterday near Swindon where my favourite tyre fitter lives so spent a happy half hour fighting the wheels out of the bike before I left. With a fully rusted exhaust system still to be sorted it's a really good job I have a lift with a removable panel under the back wheel. Probably the first time the wheels have been out since the rear tyre was new in 1988, but I have a big mallet! Drive spline in rear end looks perfect and seals not leaking (yet).
The lovely guys at Bike Treads (highly recommended) popped the new Bridgestones and Michelin tubes on for me and made a lovely job. Both wheels run true and the front balanced up with no weights added - incredible. All wheel bearings are good enough for now - will replace them later when I've fixed the stuff that actually needs fixing.
Got home and had a quick look round the brakes before refitting the tyres. PO has fitted new pads (no idea what) but they all work and the pads are not nearly bedded in yet. Should improve with a few miles on it. The dust seals are horrible though, all expanded and floppy - my guess is they've been washed in paraffin or something they don't like. I'll be ordering some seal kits. Don't want to trust my life to 30 year old brake seals (quite probably original 1976 brake seals). I'm not looking forward to bleeding the linked system, but needs must.
Got the wheels back in easier than they came out. Having the right size tyres on helped. Everything back together now... might take her out for a slightly longer ride later. :grin:
And later...
Just got back from a 10 mile ride. The new tyres have transformed it from a slow steering dog into a much more manageable device. Feels about 20kg lighter. The carbs aren't too happy... first 2 miles was on one cylinder, to garage and back. I was just about to park it and investigate when the second cylinder chimed in, so I kept going. She goes all right on an open throttle, not so clever on a closed one... I'll buy some carb kits with those brake seals and give them a good clean out. Then check the timing. Exhaust gasket is leaking on the left, making more and more of a row on the way back... hopefully just needs tightening a bit.
Seems like she'll be a very useable bike!
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Fantastic, you've made quick progress!
Where are those pics you promised?
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Nice bike you have there.
I just saw its twin this morning, a friend of mine was offered a 1973 black T3 that had been sitting in a guys garage for over twenty years, it is in very nice shape but needs a full going over before it will run again, the seller just wanted $300 to get it out of his garage, talk about a good deal!
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(https://i.ibb.co/BfHPQsR/EFB49514-3-AA6-41-C9-B9-A8-8-E1-EFE079-F03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfHPQsR)
(https://i.ibb.co/fnMszxH/CDC2-FAB5-6-E71-4766-BB92-3-D4-D87-B7-B91-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fnMszxH)
(https://i.ibb.co/bPm1fSK/8605-D328-69-F2-44-FF-A5-FB-86118-ADE49-EC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPm1fSK)
(https://i.ibb.co/4K19SdR/BF638-AE2-07-D6-43-CB-8-E71-800202259-ED8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4K19SdR)
(https://i.ibb.co/Hd9jM8M/7817-B2-EB-672-B-493-A-96-AD-FD88-BBA67997.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hd9jM8M)
(https://i.ibb.co/R3ZdBk2/8-D0041-AA-7530-4192-9112-E1-BD17-E8061-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3ZdBk2)
Some pics of how she arrived...
That is quite a deal... US prices of old bikes seem very sensible compared to here though. Can’t get cheap, interesting bikes here. I paid about 10 times that for mine.
Suspect it’s not 73 and a T3... but who cares at that price. Take it home and work out what it is later!
Recent Pics? Mmm. Nothing I’ve done so far has improved it cosmetically in any way, in fact my exploratory attempts at finding out what is going on with the paintwork have made it even uglier!
I’ll see if I can take some more today... hopefully it’ll be the worst it ever looks!
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OOPS,
I should have said 1975 T3.
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Nice bike you have there.
I just saw its twin this morning, a friend of mine was offered a 1973 black T3 that had been sitting in a guys garage for over twenty years, it is in very nice shape but needs a full going over before it will run again, the seller just wanted $300 to get it out of his garage, talk about a good deal!
Wow, that is unbelievably lucky! $300 for what I assume is a complete bike?
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(https://i.ibb.co/BfHPQsR/EFB49514-3-AA6-41-C9-B9-A8-8-E1-EFE079-F03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfHPQsR)
(https://i.ibb.co/fnMszxH/CDC2-FAB5-6-E71-4766-BB92-3-D4-D87-B7-B91-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fnMszxH)
(https://i.ibb.co/bPm1fSK/8605-D328-69-F2-44-FF-A5-FB-86118-ADE49-EC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPm1fSK)
(https://i.ibb.co/4K19SdR/BF638-AE2-07-D6-43-CB-8-E71-800202259-ED8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4K19SdR)
(https://i.ibb.co/Hd9jM8M/7817-B2-EB-672-B-493-A-96-AD-FD88-BBA67997.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hd9jM8M)
(https://i.ibb.co/R3ZdBk2/8-D0041-AA-7530-4192-9112-E1-BD17-E8061-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3ZdBk2)
Recent Pics? Mmm. Nothing I’ve done so far has improved it cosmetically in any way, in fact my exploratory attempts at finding out what is going on with the paintwork have made it even uglier!
I’ll see if I can take some more today... hopefully it’ll be the worst it ever looks!
Thanks Stu, any and all pics pf the bike are welcome. Pictures of the area where you ride are not banned either!
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Guzzis here are undervalued, maybe because there are so few? I paid $200 for an original but rusty and 30 year dormant 17000 mile G5 about a year ago.
(https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e27/Zehnderllc/B13A99B4-41F5-4F79-AA4D-46D1ACFD26DA_zpsgybvifar.jpeg) (https://s36.photobucket.com/user/Zehnderllc/media/B13A99B4-41F5-4F79-AA4D-46D1ACFD26DA_zpsgybvifar.jpeg.html)
I’ll have well over 20 times that into the bike when done.
Hopefully they will keep surfacing.
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God, I wish you could still pick bikes up like that here. Everyone is looking for a project to cut the back off, put a flat brown seat and pipe wrap on and call it a cafe racer...
I paid £2500 for mine ($3000). There was one in not dissimilar condition advertised for almost twice that. While £2500 wasn't a bargain, it was certainly a fair price in the market here.
I got lucky, it doesn't need everything doing to it... at least not immediately...
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(https://i.ibb.co/7kg7fDD/D9-B7-BDBD-5-EDA-4-F46-9-F29-BE8-C0-C52976-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7kg7fDD)
(https://i.ibb.co/F8wgpSm/8-C7-B2-EED-0-F55-4-A41-95-E1-85-F758263158.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F8wgpSm)
(https://i.ibb.co/d4ZRr2t/86-FED01-F-2-BAE-4-F33-8425-E6-FA3-D67-C317.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4ZRr2t)
(https://i.ibb.co/3CtgVR1/133981-B6-F00-C-4-AB2-A2-C0-4-B705-BA0-CC7-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3CtgVR1)
So, while none of my T3 is pretty, one real eyesore for me was the red shocks. Yes, I know they're iconic aftermarket Marzocchis but they're tatty and the red doesn't match anything.
Took them off this morning, took them apart (cable tie spring compressors... if it works don't knock it), stripped off all the loose paint and corrosion, gave the bodies a coat of primer and satin black, cleaned up the collars, and reassembled them...
Good news is they both work perfectly, don't leak and have great damping in both directions.
Can't refit them, need a set of new bushes...
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The shocks look 107.5 % better now!
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Very nice.
Inspiring!
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Spent a chunk of change Friday ordering some of the bits to do the exhaust (stainless clamps – mine are horribly rusty and mismatched), Brakes (new innards for master cylinders and seals for calipers, bleed nipples, etc.), carbs (rebuild kits), front tank rubbers (mine are perished) and a new ignition switch (again, don’t F it up). All told, about £300’s worth. Bloody scary for a few little bits, but it’ll give me some stuff to be getting on with. Probably should add a new set of brake pipes… it already has braided hoses all over, but the fittings are rusty… no, keep reminding me this isn’t a resto.
Started on the exhaust Friday. Managed to get both silencers off easily enough with a bit of soaking in WD40. Took headers and crossover off the bike complete. Left header came off with a bit of effort, right is putting up a hell of a fight. I left it soaking overnight to no effect – blowtorch next! De-rusted them with a pot scourer… chrome is dulled where it still existed, but more consistent overall and at least 95% of the rust is gone. Lots of pitting. I now understand why exhaust wrap has become a fashion… would cover a multitude of sins! Will leave as is for now…
Fought the shocks back on Saturday, another comedy of errors… and still wrong. The reason I damaged one of the bushes taking it off is because the mounting pins on the frame are oversize. Someone’s plated the frame at some point, and three out of four of the pins are plated and about 0.3mm over the nominal 14mm. The one on the final drive which obviously didn’t go to the platers is 13.95mm and fine! Anyway… the shocks are on… a lot of filing and sanding, three original bushes and one bodged from a thin sleeve bearing bush and a smaller OD shock bush. For now it's tight and solid! From past experience, 30 year old shocks will die pretty soon after being forced back into use, so I’ll sort it all out when needs must.
Keep reminding myself of the plan… get it back on the road, useable and reliable. And don’t worry too much about what it looks like for now.
Is it a coincidence that I just reopened this and an advert for header wrap appeared? Maybe it's destiny... :wink:
Oh, and this arrived...
(https://i.ibb.co/VjGhYBK/CE1460-B5-F8-A3-43-F3-8-B1-C-217-D56-F1360-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VjGhYBK)
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Nice work on the bike, new brake caliper components will definitely do it some good. It's hard to see from the picture, but your calipers are the twin bleed type with chrome pistons right? Are you upgrading to the alu brake pistons? I don't know the quality of the marzocchi shocks but the original koni ones regularly used on old tonti frames seem to be almost indistructable unless seriously neglected. Your's might be as well. At least they look much nicer now!
Looking forward to your progress! Also, you guys have way nicer licence plates than in europe (or the Netherlands at least). I think these will look very nice on the bike. :thumb:
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Thanks... parcel just arrived with caliper seals... still a couple more to come from all over EU. Yes, twin bleed type. Haven't ordered pistons at this point... will have a look at them first.
Had Marzocchis on my old Ducati. They were working perfectly well one day and seized and bent the next! They feel perfect at the moment, so who knows.
License plate is an old style one - only for "historic" vehicles over 40 years old. Standard ones are reflective yellow and not pretty!
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Coming along! :thumb:
I share your (fiscal) pain. I ordered a few parts for my SP1000, it was a rather large sum for a pretty small box of parts.
If the brake pads aren't separating from the metal backing plate, it's probably fine to reuse them. BTW, on my bike the rear caliper (F09) has plain steel pistons which were rusty and needed replacement, but the two front sets (F08) are coated and in perfect condition. I will order new caliper kits and MC kits too -eventually. I need to let my credit card cool down!
Just curious, how does a vintage license plate work in England? Does a vintage plate restrict where and how often you can ride? We have historic plates available in the province of Ontario (Every one of the Canadian provinces have their own plates and rules.) and they are much less expensive than regular plates. But the restrictions on where and when one can ride with historic plates makes them useless for someone who wants to ride the bike regularly. They are intended for people who ride seldomly and then only to specific exhibitions, events, parades, etc.
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Bike already has three sets of new EBC pads, fitted by seller, so no problems there!
Historic registration seems to be all advantages... no road tax, no annual MoT test, no restrictions (as far as I am aware). Plate is purely cosmetic... I could fit the standard yellow one if I wanted and no one would know the difference. Only vehicles over 40 years and registered as historic are allowed to wear the old style black and white plates, so they're pretty rare on the road.
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Bit of an update... much has gone on since I was last here.
Started cleaning things up a bit and am pleasantly surprised how well it's scrubbing up. There are no plans to make anything as-new, but the Borranis, final drive and engine cases are responding well to a bit of a deep clean and the exhausts now look suitably used but solid. Biggest surprise was the nickel plated frame, which cleans up nicely, and looks suitably shiny. Jury's out on whether it's staying in the long term, but it's presentable for now.
I've removed a few of the PO's 'orrible black bits... his attitude to anything slightly dodgy seems to have been cover it with thick gooey black paint. The crash bars got removed and parked under the bench. The seat grab rail would have too, except that the seat hinges on it, so I managed to buy a reasonable chrome one and it's been replaced. Footrest hangers came off and got a coat from a silver aerosol. Two bits left that need attention; the rear light bracket (needs replacing with a half decent chrome one) and the fork sliders which shouldn't be impossible to clean up when I get to the front end. Oh, and it needs some new horns... the Voxbells are a) horrible, b) painted black, and c) silent.
The other nasty black bits were the tank and side panels… which are currently baking in the sun outside having been stripped and resprayed over the course of the last ten days. They're looking rather good, despite my cheapskate addiction to Halfords rattle cans, somewhat closer to original (although not completely so), and much less depressing. No photos yet, I'll wait till it's reassembled. You'll have to wait a week or so as I'm letting the paint harden properly and need to rebuild the front master cylinder (and caliper) so it no longer drips brake fluid onto the tank!
Spoiler... having just got my V5 back with "Historic Vehicle" on it, I've now got to send it back again to change the colour.
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As promised, front caliper and master cylinder came apart last night. Who decided at the factory to use a master cylinder that needs to be slid off the bars and requires removal of throttle and switchgear? Stuff that... I rebuilt it in place on the bars! One buggerance… it's been broken and welded at some point where the lever attaches, which has left the entrance to the bore somewhat obscured by the weld. The cylinder itself is OK, but sliding the washer and locking ring into position from the open end was impossible (the fitted ones were severely bent out of shape by a PO hammering them in - animal!). Some intervention with small round file on the weld cleared the path and all went back together fine. It's all good in terms of operation, but I may be tempted to replace it, especially if it still has a tendency to drip! Cap and seal will be renewed; I think that's where it was leaking from.
Caliper was also stripped and new seals put in... I think the whole operation was a bit pointless; it has nice new Teflon pistons in and the seals were soft and probably recently replaced during the PO's minor resurrection. Anyway, all done and I know what's in there now. Tonight's job - new fluid and get it bled.
I haven't found the courage to start on the linked system yet, but I need to - the dust seals on those calipers basically fell out when I popped the pads out.
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Hey Stu, nice to see you continuing the improvements to the bike! I'm very curious to how the painting turned out. With proper preperations you can get very nice results. Did you apply the decals and/or emblems back onto the covers and tank?
It's always sad to see that you're in the process of replacing something that wasn't necesary, I had the same experience checking the distribution chain tensioner in my G5 which was apparently already replaced by the previous owner :rolleyes: Don't worry about starting on the linked system, it really isn't that big of a deal. Only the bleeding can be a bit of a chore but a little help from someone else can go a long way. pressuring the system overnight to bleed also works wonders.
I'm looking forward to the pictures! :gotpics:
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(https://i.ibb.co/Dgv6WvG/0-F316-A52-BFC2-4-B22-85-B8-6-C37-A79-AAA4-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dgv6WvG)
(https://i.ibb.co/tKL8KKK/CBEEE52-A-BCB4-4-EB4-8-FD2-4-EA6-D2-C0-E98-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tKL8KKK)
Only the bleeding can be a bit of a chore
It's only the bleeding I'm worried about!
I'm looking forward to the pictures!
Did you apply the decals and/or emblems back onto the covers and tank?
Well, since you ask nicely... here's a spoiler... Tank obviously not sitting quite right, but I couldn't resist popping them on for two seconds last night to have a look... I have to sort the seat out - the base is a bit mangled and was scratching the back of the tank before.
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So, the front brake was a bit of a nightmare... bought new seal kits from Gutsibits which were pattern parts, not Brembo. As I said above, the caliper already seemed to have good bits in, but I swapped them for the new pattern parts to be sure. I spent an hour or so trying to bleed it, and eventually got some pressure, at which point fluid started pissing past one of the new piston seals in the caliper. :sad: Stripped it again last night, replaced all the seals with the "good" ones I'd taken out and it has bled up nicely and is not leaking. Now to have a discussion with Gutsibits. I have two more sets of those seals to go in the linked system, and the last thing I want to do is do it more than once. I've never, ever had a problem with pattern seals before... they've always worked perfectly. Had to be a first time, I suppose :rolleyes:
The next job... try to turn this into a seat :shocked:
(https://i.ibb.co/CnYRY3s/B3978670-BFC9-41-D8-AA6-F-A78-E29-CC6-B93.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CnYRY3s)
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That paintwork is looking nice :thumb: Too bad about the brake caliper seals.. Luckely you have working ones and don't have to wait for a new order to come in.
What's that about the seat, that looks fine to me, nice and comfy :evil:
Were you able to source a new seat cover or are you going to reuse the one that was on it when you bought the bike? It might be different in the US but in Europe these seats seem to have disappeared, making finding replacement seats or even covers very hard.. My G5 seat pan looked like that as well but I've replaced it with a Stucci plastic pan with the original foam on top and a new seat cover, might be something to consider if these are available second hand.
Here's a picture of my ''as good as new'' original seat pan;
(https://i.ibb.co/Wsxb8xf/IMG-9367-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wsxb8xf)
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Happy with paint. Not the easiest one I’ve ever done, but turned out ok eventually.
Pan is pretty solid. The seat is a sofa off a SP/G5/convert and not what I want. I’ve managed to buy a nice moulded seat cover for a T3 from “old school covers” on eBay. Hopefully the foam will cut down to accept the new narrower cover. If not, there are new foams on eBay too.
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So, after several weeks fiddling on and off in the garage, she saw the light of day today and went for a first 20 mile shakedown ride. Still lots I want to do to her, but she's on the road.
(https://i.ibb.co/QjWgthH/IMG-2527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjWgthH)
(https://i.ibb.co/XySJKQw/IMG-2526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XySJKQw)
(https://i.ibb.co/zN0J9HL/IMG-2525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zN0J9HL)
I've got most of the bits to go through the linked brake system, rebuild the forks (and sort out the long stanchions) and rebuild the carbs... all still to do.
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That looks great, nice work! :thumb:
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Very nice. :thumb:
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Time for an update.
The test ride I mentioned in the last post went well, everything seemed to work (at least everything that was fitted... ) and the old girl went quite well considering it's still set up the way it was put away 30 years ago. The one thing I was really trying to avoid dealing with was the massive oil leak pissing out twixt engine and gearbox. Anyway after basking in the glory of having a complete bike for a week or two, I admitted to myself it wasn't going any further until it was fixed and pulled it apart again.
Crabbed the frame, pulled off the gearbox. There's clear evidence that it was leaking from both the rear crank seal and the front (and rear) gearbox seals. The clutch plates, while in good condition, were the old design Surflex jobs that have about 10mm wide sintered friction surfaces and wear the metal contact surfaces away. Luckily I'd caught them in time, only the intermediate plates (they use two thin ones for some reason) were worn too badly to reuse, and thanks to a paragraph in Guzziology about the subject, I was confident to just replace the clutch plates (Newfren) and intermediate plate along with new springs and flywheel bolts.
Borrowed some tools from previously unknown contacts on facebook (massive thanks, guys) and changed all the offending seals and a few o rings etc., replaced the breather gasket, checked over everything else and put it back together... after much fiddling I managed to get the gearbox aligned with the clutch and back together with the engine. Haven't gone any further yet, but did connect the clutch cable... It certainly feels like it's working properly.
On the way back together, I've got all the bits to rebuild the carbs (new choke plungers, float valves, o rings and gaskets). I also want to check the timing (she's still on points... I'm leaving it that way for now... and yes I did get the flywheel back in the right place!) and check through the rest of the ignition system. While the bike was running well at sensible speeds the once I really opened her up I got a bit of a misfire/resistance. Probably carburation, I would think, but I want to make sure all is working fine.
Must buy myself a strobe timing light... gave my last one away 20 years ago!
(https://i.ibb.co/zXdvXjh/A75-D71-A2-5-A37-428-C-B9-C1-6-DA4-E89-D513-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zXdvXjh)
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So, I've moved on a bit from above.
Timing light arrived from an ebay buy and I checked the ignition timing... all good, no adjustment required. I did pop the points plate out, strip the advance /retard thingy, and put a bit of Copperslip in there to make sure it was all free and moving properly.
Stripped and rebuilt the carbs with new choke plungers (one was seized which may explain the hesitancy I was experiencing), new float valves, new inlet filters, etc. They're reasonably unworn and clean. Reset the floats which were miles out. Put it all back together and set the carbs up with the Carbtune that's been on the shelf for 15 years and used about 4 times.
Wow... now running beautifully smoothly on the first test run and going nicely. Until I stopped and couldn't get it to restart... A bit of a rest and wiggling and she fired up reluctantly and headed home. I charged the battery and checked the bike was charging... yes. Cleaned terminals on battery cables and solenoid. Went out for another test run. Exactly the same issue... Came home, removed the starter motor and took it to bits. Dirty contacts in the solenoid, dirty commutator, dry bushes with no lubrication whatsoever... Cleaned and lubed everything and reassembled it (about four times... should have taken better notes on the way in!) and put it back on the bike. Bike seemed happier starting.
Tried a longer test run this time, out across Salisbury Plain and Stonehenge... about 75 mile round trip. Bike was running beautifully and fired up OK after a stop 10 miles in and again 5 miles later. As I was at the furthest point from home, just before I passed Stonehenge, the clutch cable snapped slowing for a changing traffic light... I gassed it and went through a couple of seconds after it turned red. And rode home without stopping once... managed to predict all the junctions and lights and got lucky with it. Guzzi gearbox not the easiest I've ever used for clutchless changes... a couple of them went in quietly, most didn't! New cable arrived from Gutsibits yesterday, but was too long and didn't have any adjustment... they're kindly sending me another one FOC today.
Also fitted a new tacho cable and miraculously the tach is working for the first time since I got it.
Last piece of the starting puzzle arrived yesterday in the form of a new Exide AGM battery from Tayna (highly recommended!). I'd kind of decided the old one was probably OK and I probably didn't need it. Boy, was I wrong. The Guzzi now bursts into life at the first touch of the button instead of cranking like an old Morris Minor... we're getting there!
(https://i.ibb.co/sQryHcF/7307219-B-BCB4-44-C3-9-C8-A-2885-F8-A6-AC2-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sQryHcF)
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Very nice work Stu! :drool: Also nice to hear she's seeing the road again. I've always got an extra clutch cable in the pannier just for that scenario. Maybe you can store one underneath the saddle or taped onto the battery?
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Did the cable break at the hand lever? If that's the case, that's often because the bushing is worn out, allowing the lever to wobble. The sharp edge of the lever eats the cable and weakens it. Also, because it's not pulling on the barrel end squarely, it flexes it as well. It's the bushing in the lever.
The ones I've seen also use the wrong bolt - the lever should 'ride' on a solid shank, but instead they always seem to have threads clear to the head. The bushing then rides on the threads which wears the bushing and the bolt threads giving much more slop. I find a bolt with a longer shank then cut the threaded end to length.
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Over a month since the last update and a lot has happened. Was desperate to get out on the bike again before the new clutch cable arrived so I modified the end of the old cable to make a spacer and take up some slack on the too long cable. Works perfectly! Friday lunchtime arrives and I clock out and take the bike for a spin in the late summer sunshine. A perfect afternoon and the bike runs happily for 50 miles or so with no issues. 15 miles from home and I'm getting used to the bike and a bit cheeky. Approaching a row of slow moving cars, I pull out and overtake them. As I get to the front of the queue, the front car (which just happens to be an AC Cobra replica) turns across my path. I instinctively grab a handful of not very effective front brake, can't find the horn button (120 miles on a new bike is not enough to retrain the brain!) and crash into the very pretty Cobra's rear wing. Probably only 10-15 mph but hard enough to hurt. Four weeks ago today, and the swelling has just about gone down! Still kicking myself for being so stupid... Been riding as long as the T3 has been around... I should know better!
Cobra had a bit of surface paint damage (I'd put a sticker over it, but he'll claim a £1000 respray) and Guzzi picks up looking remarkably OK. Two broken plug caps and one broken plug. Bent handlebar. And, I discover later, one bent fork leg (which may have been bent before!). Phone call to my son, who pulls the old plugs off the shelf and some caps off my old Kawasaki and brings them out to me. 10 minutes later, I'm riding it home, and having fun!
If you've been following, you'll know the bike had the wrong fork legs on and lots of gloopy black paint on the sliders, so this little event just brought forward time for a front end rebuild. This has escalated just a bit!
Forks have been stripped, the tubes have been replaced with new ones the right length. The FAC dampers I picked up cheaply have gone in, mostly because they have nice tops... my old ones were a) extended ones to take up the extra length and b) gouged to hell. The sliders were treated to some more paint stripper, given a light polish and reassembled. Legs look great and are ready to go back in. FAC dampers and existing, presumably standard springs at the moment... we'll see how that works before spending any more money.
I was gifted a set of original chrome headlight brackets by the guy I bought the grab rail from. Not perfect chrome, but very fitting for the rest of the bike. Had to import the support rubbers from the US as no local places had stock.
Bent handlebars are unfortunately kinked a bit and no way I was going to straighten them. I've ordered a new set but they seem to be coming on a slow boat from somewhere. Taking the old ones off involved removing the original switchgear which is threaded through the bars. The old switches are very, very naff and yet sought after by restorers (of Mk1 Le Mans presumably). I was promptly offered good money for them and relieved to see them go away... Of course, removing the switches involves disconnecting them at the headlight. Some wonderful previous owner, obviously fed up with bad connections, had removed all the connectors and soldered all the wires together... he'd also replaced half the wires with random colour ones, removed the bulb holders in the instruments and soldered the wires straight to bulbs. The resulting wiring in the headlight has to be seen to be believed, looks like an explosion in a spaghetti factory.
Fortunately the main loom plug is till there, and relatively intact (just the kill switch wires soldered together!) so I've disconnected it there, repaired the kill wires, and removed everything forward of that to start again. Bought some new switches (Chinese specials from AliExpress, look like Domino), rewired them with proper wire and Molex plugs, made up a new loom for the headlight connections, bought LEDs for the bulbs, added wiring and warning lights for some indicators. And ordered a new LED headlight... my old one is a Lucas sealed beam in a Suzuki shell so definitely not original. I'll see when it arrives if I want to use the modern LED or go more vintage looking. Either way I'll need a new shell. Replacing all other bulbs with LED.
Oh and someone's selling me a Dyna III ignition, BNIB, for half price. May treat myself to the coils to go with it. Or not... I've spent far too much already this month!
I was going to reassemble the front end last night but stripped head bearings to grease them while it was apart. Of course they are notchy and rusty so a new set has been ordered... at this rate everything in front of the steering head will be new!
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Damn! What a way to end the first ride! But you've definitely turned lemons into lemonade.
Coulda been much much worse!
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That sucks Stu... No serious injuries or pains I hope?
Of course it's also a shame that the bike has damage, especially as you've just gone over it, but I'm sure you'll make it even nicer than it was before
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Hi Stu,
I’ve just discovered this thread and enjoyed reading it. Seems like you are well on the way to having a very nice usable T3. I’m just up the road in Cheltenham if you’re a sociable type with time on your hands - post lockdown of course!
Cheers,
Derek
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It looks like a g5 seat,the best Guzzi seat of all time.The t3 seat on mine was terrible.Back in the day people were wanting goofy aftermarket seats.I was complaining to the dealer about thet3 seat and he sold me the g5 seat someone left behind for$ 40.
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Well, the garage has been cold and untidy for weeks, so I haven't been doing much.
The handlebars I ordered back in September got delayed by - and then Brexit... I finally got them last week, which got me going again.
All the wiring I put together a few months ago went in without a hitch. Everything now works... or it does after I remembered I removed the bypass on the kill switch! Cheap Chinese switches seem to work OK, certainly better than the originals!
Also fitted a cheapo LED headlight in the existing Suzuki bucket. I really tried to buy a better one, have had three headlight units here, but sent them all back for one reason or another. Couldn't keep the Lucas sealed beam unit now, could I?
I saw a Facebook ad for a crowd stripping a SP3 to do a cafe job, so managed to buy the footrests cheaply. Not only do they look better than the originals (provided you're not a rivet counter, but if you were you'd have stopped reading this some time ago) they are also about 20mm lower, which will help my legs and provide some pillion pegs which I was lacking. Bolted straight on like they were made for it, including the silencer mounts lining up!
Fitted some HH pads in the front calipers, which will no doubt wear the discs quicker, but might stop me before the car next time! Also stripped the discs off the wheel, refaced them a bit to remove any glaze and contamination, and resprayed the centres. New wheel bearings and all back together with new bolts. Stripped all the black gunk off the forks and yokes as well... may have said that before.
Anyway, after replacing everything forward of the headstock, the electrics all switched on OK, no smoke leakage... and the bike jumped instantly into life first push of the button. I was well chuffed after standing idle for four months or so. Everything's working including the new indicators I've plumbed in.. I even have Hazards and a running light in the headlight!
I need to have a walk round and check I haven't left anything loose and it's test ride time. When it warms up a bit :embarrassed:
(https://i.ibb.co/bmzPKNN/Bars-L.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bmzPKNN)
(https://i.ibb.co/y6qVhXm/Bars-R.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y6qVhXm)
(https://i.ibb.co/tHg2XXZ/Footrests-SP3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tHg2XXZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/C6sHg49/Funky-LED-Headlight.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C6sHg49)
(https://i.ibb.co/cy24CqC/Front-End.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cy24CqC)
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:thumb:
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Very nice!
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Spot the difference... (yes, the z4's pointing the other way!)
(https://i.ibb.co/YtrzB9h/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YtrzB9h)
(https://i.ibb.co/B24wG8M/Feb21-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B24wG8M)
Note:
New, shorter fork stanchions
Headlight brackets
Indicators
Gaiters removed
Fork legs, yokes, and rear caliper carrier now bare ally
Discs cleaned up and new fixings.
SP3 footrests with pillion pegs.
Black plug caps instead of red ones!
At least the front end doesn't look like a black hole now :smiley:
You can't see:
Electrical rewire of front end
New switches
FAC dampers in forks
New headlight
New brake pads, wheel bearings and steering head bearings
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Before pic for contrast! This pic actually does not begin to show how horrible it was... all that black paint on everything was thick, gloopy and very soft.
I think I'm pretty much done cosmetically... I don't want to make her look any newer - just maintenance and positively promoting patina from here on...
(https://i.ibb.co/5Y57HQT/Guzzi2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5Y57HQT)
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Hi Stu, I bought the same handlebar switches last summer! (Great minds...) They are bound to be better than the originals. At this point I have a naked frame and boxes. Slowly accumulating parts. I really like the red with gold accents on your bike. Nice work and inspiring for me. :thumb:
"Not quite" riding season yet here in Ottawa. View is from my front door just now. About 80-90 cm snow accumulation on the front yard. Looks like we'll get about 10cm today.
(https://i.ibb.co/YQ4j62Z/P1070395.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YQ4j62Z)
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The bike looks great Stu. Motorcycles are always either getting better or getting worse. Yours is getting much better.