Cali 1100i help.... (probably silly questions, but at least they should be easy)

[Andy B]

Hi guys,

First off - apologies, as I may be starting off with some pretty dull/silly/etc questions... but bear with me...

been lurking a fair while, but not posted since I was building my old v50 up....

long story short, i've upgraded to a Cali 1100i with the plan to de-cruiser it similar to the likes of this thread (This is the only kind of info i've found on the likes of this build....)

Got a nice v7 tank and seat i'd like to put on it but have a few issues...


Now, this is my first injection bike and with the tank off there's an awful lot of wires and parts i'm unfamiliar with..... so will start off hoping some of you could help me with what's what and what can be rid off..

With the tank off, biggest issue is the massive airbox... will need to cut and modify or think about pod filters but how does this affect the fueling/ECU?



Massive multi-plugs by the headstock are getting in the way of the tank fitting properly... but i suppose that's not too much of an issue as i'm getting rid of the dash (or would like to at least) so could use less bulky connectors for that..


Fuel supply is a bit of a head scratcher..

So i've got the two outlets off the cali tank, going into one larger pipe, that goes to the fuel pump, then round into the large can in the photo under the middle frame rail (- is this just a fuel filter? - and so just be swapped for a smaller unit?) and onto the pressure reg which splits to two  - one to the tank and one to the TB's?

I was hoping to get a single connector from the tank to the pump, but the size of the pipe going to the pump looks massive!
upload image online

and then there was this little thing i noticed... I have no idea what this is...


Any help would be appreciated.... It's all a little daunting at the moment, and im thinking perhaps i should have held out for a carb'd Cali 3?

Cheers,
Andy

[Kiwi_Roy]

The little sensor in your last picture is the air temperature sensor, it can be relocated anywhere not effected by engine heat.
I took mine apart and located the thermistor up near the headstock under the tank.
There is another one similar in the LH valve cover in picture 2 measuring oil/engine temperature.
See page 12 and page 26 item (10) of attached.


Print this out, it's a gold mine of information on that bike's fuel injection.
http://www.dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf
The fuel normally re-circulates back to the tank so you could drop out of one tank connection and back into the other.
It's not really necessary to have a petcock with FI in fact the document shows it attached to the tank with normal size hoses.

Look at the schematic, all the FI stuff is in the top right hand corner it only has 2 wires going to it 12 Volts and a signal telling it to go
The other 2 wires are a signal to the tach and an idiot light.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1996_California_1100i.gif
(the sensor is item 49 on the schematic)

I look forward to seeing how your project comes out, keep us posted.

[Old Jock]

As Roy has said, the fuel on that bike will go from the tank via the larger diameter pipe to the suction side of the pump. From the discharge of the pump it runs to the fuel filter (the massive canister) from there to the injectors and from the injectors spills back to the tank. The extra fuel helps cool as well as being available immediately should the injectors demand it

I've never tried to replace the fuel filter with something smaller, I agree its a bit of a porker but it works and is identical to some car filters (Fiat Panda and some others)

The fuel line feeding the pump on mine was 12mm ID, it's a different model but I'd guess its the same diameter

Again aping Roy, the ambient air sensor can be placed anywhere engine heat won't affect it.

Many run pods but they will only take away power, as I recall their effect on fuelling is not too dramatic. I've run pods on an injected bike and had no issues.

Oh the way Guzzis are wired can be a bit of a nightmare, that said it's a Tonti Frame (after its designer Lino Tonti) so you have many more options to hide wiring compared with say a spiny (spine or beam frame) that I'm rebuilding.

On your first pic of the airbox you can also see the head temp sensor on the LHS rocker box too

Welcome, I really like your tank and seat.............yo u should not be short of advice here and there are hundreds who have cafe'd all sorts of Guzzi models

Looking forward to watching your progress, Good Luck

John

[radguzzi]

That tank and seat combination will not work on the Cali but I would be glad to take it off yer hands... ;)

Best,
Rob
 

[fotoguzzi]

if you find a smaller filter it will need to be for fuel injection as the gas is pumped through it not just gravity fed..

as said above the tank needs somewhere for the gas to flow back in after the pressure regulator.

if you ditch the air box, keep the velocity tubes and put pods on them..it can run w/pods but intake sound will increase.

[Wayne Orwig]

I think you are going to need a fuel RETURN line in the tank no matter what. Does that tank have a left and right tap? If so, then you may have what you need. Or you can get a return fitting welded in underneath there somewhere.
That large fuel line to the pump can be downsized. It may be covered it steel braid. One of the reasons for that is to keep the line cool. If the line from the tank to the fuel pump gets hot, it can easily vapor lock. So keep it away from engine heat.
You are going to need to dramatically modify the air filters. This is an opened loop FI system. It will not correct for that mod automatically. I don't know anyone that has made a map like that for the P8. I have a rom burner and such tools, but I don't think I will be on this planet that long.

[guzzisteve]

If that is a newer V7 tank and you get it to fit on that frame and if you have the resources just use the in tank pump & plate. It will clean up all of the fuel hose mess. Good luck, you bit off a big chunk, now you have to chew it. All it takes is time & $.

[Andy B]

cheers for the replies guys... cheers for the wiring diagram roy - missed that one when i went looking. will have a read through that pdf.. see if it improves my undertanding a bit...nice to get some definitive answers    I had wondered about the sensor in the valve cover... forgot about that when i posted....



the tanks a metal mk2 v7... no fittings as such in the tank, just a mounting hole for the intank fuel pump....



I looked for a pump to fit the tank thinking it would save me some time and hassle..... which it would, but after finding out the costs of said pump.... i'll take the hassle...

I was going to make a plate with a pipe welded into it that goes down to the bottom as fuel pickup, and another pipe to work as the return... it's just finding the right size to use.

Is the pressure much? as i'm wondering about what fittings would be adequate if i did go down this route?

You are going to need to dramatically modify the air filters. This is an opened loop FI system. It will not correct for that mod automatically. I don't know anyone that has made a map like that for the P8. I have a rom burner and such tools, but I don't think I will be on this planet that long.

As mentioned before - this is my first FI bike... carbs would be a lot more within my comfort zone... and that being said, i have to ask - what's open loop? (I did warn about possibly silly questions  )

I looked for info within the GuzziDiag regarding the p8 ecu but didn't yeild any results..? Part of me thinks if the only downside of running pods is it takes away power, to just cope with it - i'm not a fast rider anyway...

will start tearing into the project at the end of the month... giving the old girl her last ride out as a standard cali on the 25th for the distinguished gentlemans ride.....hopefully by then i'll have enough info to go at it without worrying too much 

[guzzisteve]

3 bar is the pressure. FI clamps work for putting it together. New stuff is pricey, looks like the same hole as the rest of newer tanks, maybe a used intank part.

[guzzista]

Open Loop in EFI means that the system does not use the Oxygen Sensor/ AFR to monitor its running( Closed Loop).This is used in Catalytic Converter type setups and its intended for cleaner emissions. In cases when the Cat is removed,the system is reverted to  Open Loop  as the Oxygen Sensor is removed/ bypassed. Cheers on the  intensive build you are undertaking.  Surely the rewards will make it worth the effort.

[guzzisteve]

Hey, a used one---cheap

http://www.ebay.com/itm/08-MOTO-GUZZI-NEVADA-CLASSIC-750-IE-Fuel-Pump-Sending-Unit-/181942434395?hash=item2a5c9d3a5b:g:6bMAAOSw8-tWVg6n&vxp=mtr

[antmanbee]

This may work too and it's cheaper and from someone on our forum.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=85493.0

[Kiwi_Roy]

Go to the auto wreckers and get an in tank pump from any fuel injected car, the filter can be outside, the pressure regulator can be outside or you might
find room for it on the plate.

[Andy B]

I had a quick look on ebay, purely to see the setup, and the plate doesn't seem to incorporate a return line



I think i'll cut out a plate with some sheet i've got lying in the garage, and see how it goes making a line down to the bottom of the tank, the return will be easy at least. I had thought about putting a intank pump from whatever inside the tank too, but the concern there is the wiring...? how would i go about getting the wiring through the plate and having it air-tight and petrol resistant?

Had a bit more of a gander at the bike last night and found a couple more things...

took the covers off the TB's for curiosity's sake and found the right hand had this thing on it? wires cut, not connected to anything, and i can't find where the other side of the wiring is... i'm guessing (hoping) its not factory and something a PO has put there for whatever reason... no part numbers or anything on it.... I've been using the bike self-regularly and done about 1000mi since having it and its runs great...



noticed the fuel reg was also missing  a vac pipe?



going by the pdf Roy posted earlier it should go to the TB's, but there doesn't appear to be anywhere on my TB's for them to go.. again - assuming it doesn't require one as the bikes been running really well so far...




I'll try and make this the last set of probably silly questions for now.... thanks again for the answers so far... has been a big help and given me plenty of stuff to think about until end of the month...

[Kiwi_Roy]

Geeze, the one thing I forgot to mention you saw.
No don't put a vacuum line on there, that must have been an early idea they are just left open to atmosphere setting the pressure ~45 psi if you
put a vacuum line on there the fuel pressure will be all over the map.

The two tank connections will be at tank pressure less than 1/2 psi all the way to the pump, from pump to regulator past the injectors 45 psi
after the regulator back to the tank less than 1/2 psi again normal fuel line with hose clamps

[Andy B]

Cheers Roy, one less thing to worry about 

with 45psi in mind after the pump, would jubilee clips be strong enough or would it be better to look at some compression fittings?

I keep going back to the idea of throwing an in tank pump on it... would be easy enough to make with the plate.. but getting the wiring through is still giving me headaches... i've looked at perhaps butchering modifying one from a car with a connector already at the top, but dont know how chunky it'd end up being with regards to frame clearance... and looking for wiring glands that are fuel resistant doesn't get me very far...

I suppose I could go after a v7 pump and it would be easier to make a return line into the ali with some fittings and viton washers...?

[Wayne Orwig]

I had a quick look on ebay, purely to see the setup, and the plate doesn't seem to incorporate a return line

If you get that plate, with the motor , filter, regulator, and all inside the tank, your problems are solved. The return line and everything is inside the tank. Just run a fuel line to a Y and to the injectors. Job done. Strip the old stuff off the bike.

[Andy B]

If you get that plate, with the motor , filter, regulator, and all inside the tank, your problems are solved. The return line and everything is inside the tank. Just run a fuel line to a Y and to the injectors. Job done. Strip the old stuff off the bike.

I thought the plate only housed the pump and the filter... so its got the pressure reg aswell and so doesn't need a return line?

Having a second look, its got 4 wires.. so I suppose it will give me a fuel light too which would be handy... maybe I might splash out on one....

[Wayne Orwig]

I thought the plate only housed the pump and the filter... so its got the pressure reg aswell and so doesn't need a return line?

Having a second look, its got 4 wires.. so I suppose it will give me a fuel light too which would be handy... maybe I might splash out on one....

The regulator should be attached to the plate. You could see it if you have a picture of the opposite side. That plate makes it super easy to feed the injectors.
Yes, two wires are for the fuel level thermistor. Cross the fuel level with the pump and you fry the thermistor.

One thing to investigate first. You are looking at very different generations of systems. The fuel pressure might be wrong. I think they are both three bars, but double check that.

[Andy B]

thats the other photo of the pump on the ad...



i suppose if i did end up with one, only to find the pressure wasn't eanough, it wouldn't be too difficult to replace with another... all the other (universal fit) in tank pumps ive seen are 43psi which seems close enough to 3 bar..

Thanks for clarification on the plate... looking more and more like it would cure a lot of my issues...

[Wayne Orwig]

Yep, the regulator is on the top of the photo with the outlet to dump the excess fuel back in the tank.

thats the other photo of the pump on the ad...



i suppose if i did end up with one, only to find the pressure wasn't eanough, it wouldn't be too difficult to replace with another... all the other (universal fit) in tank pumps ive seen are 43psi which seems close enough to 3 bar..

Thanks for clarification on the plate... looking more and more like it would cure a lot of my issues...