V7iii First Service

[slopokes]

I will take a air filter please—————oh. +— first service on my stornello was $105 at wayne Guzzi— I did the oils..💸

[malik]

.........

Malik,
Air filter change in the earlier V7/Breva/Nevada bikes isn't easy, especially if you use the factory approach.  But I found easier way on a Spanish site, and I used it for my tutorial, posted below in mssg #8.

Joe

Thanks, Joe. That's the way I do it, plus I have to lift the tank off to get to the airbox's top screws - one of the costs of the 21L metal tank. The last time I did it (Saturday), it took me more time than ever before to get the filter & its guide into its rails (a good hour or more for that alone) where usually it just slides in, albeit awkwardly - probably because I was in the middle of getting the Special's clutch off the block (not my day - sheared one of the screws holding the sprung clutch on). Ended up solving it with a little smear of rubber grease on the foam sides, a step before the new filter was dirtier than the old one. I much prefer the 1TB's arrangement - seat off, unscrew the lid (don't drop the screws), remove filter, swab up any oil or dust in the airbox, drop in new filter, replace the lid (don't drop any of the screws), seat back on. But, you can't have everything, and I do prefer the lower idle of the 2TB.

As an aside, a better day yesterday - took the rear wheel & final drive off the get to the lower clutch adjuster behind the swing arm, and the wheel went back on with only 1 stutter. ?GPPPPP?

Roy,
Did you find out what those 6 rubber washers were for? Or did I miss the reply?

Mal (tejpatta on yahoo).

[malik]

Valve cover bolt grommets for the V9 & V7 III - $4.71 each from AF1 - ouch. Guess you found out when you did the tappets.

[usedtobefast]

You are all missing SMDL's point.  Look at Shaun's post closely, particularly what he put in italics. 

Is this really so hard?

Yes, I guess I need help!  First, BC not UK, whoopsie.  2nd, I never clicked on the flickr links, and now I get it.  Call me a lazy 10 watt light bulb.   

[Kiwi_Roy]

Valve cover bolt grommets for the V9 & V7 III - $4.71 each from AF1 - ouch. Guess you found out when you did the tappets.

Is that what they are, I couldn't figure out what there are six of, surely most of the elastomer parts are still like new?
No I haven't started yet.

[egschade]

Is that what they are, I couldn't figure out what there are six of, surely most of the elastomer parts are still like new?
No I haven't started yet.

I re-used the valve cover and bolt gaskets. No leaks. My only costs were for the fluids and filters.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Over the last couple of days I did the first service, I thought I would point out a few items, I won't try to teach you how to suck eggs but if you haven't done a V7 before it's a little different.
I don't have a lift table so everything is at ground level.

Doing the tappets you need
3 & 5 mm Allen keys
16mm deep socket (for plugs, not the usual 18mm)
T20 Torx driver (remove spark lead support screws) careful you don't lose the spacers on the screws
Feelers 0.1mm (0.004") Inlet
           0.15mm (0.006") Exhaust
11mm Ring Spanner (tappets)
Small wrench or adjustable (hold tappet screws)
If you have to move the tappet more than about one flat, you are doing something wrong.
This bike is hard to lift squarely but I found sitting on it is a good way to rotate the engine in top gear you can easily rock back and forth at TDC feeling the straw at the same time.

Oil Change
I found 2 4x2 on edge fits snuggly under the exhaust to hold the bike vertical
Rear Drive
17mm Ring Spanner (drain and vent)
10mm Allen Key (Fill Plug)
I'm certain my rear end had a Molly additive, the oil was quite grey in colour and there was a paste on the drain plug
I found it easier to fill in the vent hole, you can just get a finger tip in the overflow hole to feel the rising level rather than overflow it to make a mess.

Gearbox
24mm Wrench (drain) this is the same size as the wrench for rear axel.
10mm Allen Key (fill hole)
Tip: Leave the fill plug in-place until you have the box draining, this will slow the rate of discharge to a fraction, less mess that way.
The filter shown in the manual is sitting in the drain hole
I don't know how you are supposed to check the level, the Service manual says 500mL so thats what I put back in, just used the gauge on the bottle.

Engine
17mm Ring Spanner (drain)
13mm Socket (filter bolt)
Remove filter after the sump has drained, this is a messy bloody job, oil goes everywhere, there must be a better tool.
Tip: Same again don't pull the Dip Stick first like the manual says, wait until you have the sump draining, this will slow the flow down so it's more manageable.
According to the service manual sump capacity is 2 L, mine was full at 1.75 L

Suggestion, if you see anything wrong in this post how about sending a PM and I will correct it
Thanks
Roy

[Siamese]

Well, crap-a-doodle-doo...I used the valve clearance on the sticker under the seat of .15mm and .20mm, not the .10mm and .15mm as discussed in this thread. Also, the shop manual I downloaded says .10mm and .15mm.  Jeesh.  Now, I have to do them over.  No big deal though, as it's easy. 

The valves seem kinda noisy at .15mm and .20mm, so it'll be interesting to note if there's any change. 

[Kev m]

Over the last couple of days I did the first service, I thought I would point out a few items, I won't try to teach you how to suck eggs but if you haven't done a V7 before it's a little different.
I don't have a lift table so everything is at ground level.

Doing the tappets you need
3 & 5 mm Allen keys
16mm deep socket (for plugs, not the usual 18mm)
T20 Torx driver (remove spark lead support screws) careful you don't lose the spacers on the screws
Feelers 0.1mm (0.004") Inlet
           0.15mm (0.006") Exhaust
11mm Ring Spanner (tappets)
Small wrench or adjustable (hold tappet screws)
If you have to move the tappet more than about one flat, you are doing something wrong.
This bike is hard to lift squarely but I found sitting on it is a good way to rotate the engine in top gear you can easily rock back and forth at TDC feeling the straw at the same time.

Oil Change
I found 2 4x2 on edge fits snuggly under the exhaust to hold the bike vertical
Rear Drive
17mm Ring Spanner (drain and vent)
10mm Allen Key (Fill Plug)
I'm certain my rear end had a Molly additive, the oil was quite grey in colour and there was a paste on the drain plug
I found it easier to fill in the vent hole, you can just get a finger tip in the overflow hole to feel the rising level rather than overflow it to make a mess.

Gearbox
24mm Wrench (drain) this is the same size as the wrench for rear axel.
10mm Allen Key (fill hole)
Tip: Leave the fill plug in-place until you have the box draining, this will slow the rate of discharge to a fraction, less mess that way.
The filter shown in the manual is sitting in the drain hole
I don't know how you are supposed to check the level, the Service manual says 500mL so thats what I put back in, just used the gauge on the bottle.

Engine
17mm Ring Spanner (drain)
13mm Socket (filter bolt)
Remove filter after the sump has drained, this is a messy bloody job, oil goes everywhere, there must be a better tool.
Tip: Same again don't pull the Dip Stick first like the manual says wait until you have the sump draining, this will slow the flow down so it's more manageable.
According to the service manual sump capacity is 2 L, mine was full at 1.75 L

Suggestion, if you see anything wrong in this post how about sending a PM and I will correct it
Thanks
Roy

Thanks, all sounds good.

I might have to buy a 24mm wrench. I've got that in sockets but only have standard wrenches in anything approaching that size (say over 19mm or so).

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thanks, all sounds good.

I might have to buy a 24mm wrench. I've got that in sockets but only have standard wrenches in anything approaching that size (say over 19mm or so).

A 24mm wrench is very large see if you have one of those flat 24mm wrenches for the rear wheel it will fit between frame and header pipe or carve one out of aluminium,
I don't think there is room for a socket. An 8" Crescent wrench will do at a pinch, its an "O" ring seal so not over tight.

I had to laugh when I saw the grounding spring under the valve covers otherwise they would be isolated from the engine by the rubber parts, my guess is owners complained about sparks jumping onto their kneecaps. We had the same problem with glass lined piping.

[Kev m]

A 24mm wrench is very large see if you have one of those flat 24mm wrenches for the rear wheel it will fit between frame and header pipe or carve one out of aluminium,
I don't think there is room for a socket. An 8" Crescent wrench will do at a pinch, its an "O" ring seal so not over tight.

Yeah, I've got adjustables that are big enough, but I'd rather have a box end wrench.

Looks like it would be less than $10 at Home Depot

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-24-mm-12-Point-Metric-Full-Polish-Combination-Wrench-HCW24MM/202916174?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CG%7CBase%7CD25T%7C25-1_HAND+TOOLS%7CNA%7CLIA%7c71700000043839315%7c58700004592003384%7c92700038837660279&gclid=CjwKCAjwlPTmBRBoEiwAHqpvhbmzw-FMK8pv1PgF3auS9J3BV3oI_f3N7b6K-2yqE9qkHjXxp6N94hoCV2YQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

or $22 at Lowes, which is probably worth it as I really like Kobalt tools much better than Husky

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-24mm-12-Point-Metric-Standard-Combination-Wrench/3387172

Either way, not a big deal.


Ohh, though I have to admit - $20, Amazon prime, a ratcheting one (no name though so I would worry about the fit on higher torque applications) is tempting too:

https://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-9124-Combination-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B0002NYDAI/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=CjwKCAjwlPTmBRBoEiwAHqpvhaiNlUi9Z-q6g3Rkm55oV9KFB56Gka3VW6Yqbf18prSVrMonRWlgNRoCankQAvD_BwE&hvadid=177832863281&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003815&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1o1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=14727680601453992346&hvtargid=kwd-125206159995&hydadcr=1640_9901518&keywords=24mm+ratcheting+wrench&qid=1558015497&s=gateway&sr=8-3

[Red]

I had my dealer do my first service for my v7ii. I deeply regret it.
I managed to fix the issues associated with the first service performed by the dealer. But in end the dealer did not understand Guzzi, did not set valves correctly overfilled my oil and did not retorque my heads. Also left my seat loose. Charged me 360 bucks. What Ive learned from this is  to do it myself because I care about the bike and the dealer does not.

Is/was re torquing heads a Moto Guzzi thing?  I have had many motorcycles and don't recall this being part of something you checked unless something went amiss.

[Kev m]

Is/was re torquing heads a Moto Guzzi thing?  I have had many motorcycles and don't recall this being part of something you checked unless something went amiss.

When I was a youngling it was commonplace on s lot of motors, mostly bike, marine...

But it vanished largely before I went to college.

Except for Moto Guzzi who soldiered on all the way to 2016 with the heron head smallblock!

[sign216]

When I was a youngling it was commonplace on s lot of motors, mostly bike, marine...

But it vanished largely before I went to college.

Except for Moto Guzzi who soldiered on all the way to 2016 with the heron head smallblock!

That's my attraction to the Small Block.  It's a living dinosaur.  A lot of small block aficionados are former BMW airhead owners (like me), who left BMW went they super-technical with their bikes.  You can scarcely change your own oil on a BMW now.  It's all "the dealer does it."

The Heron head small block is also similar to the Royal Enfield.  An old bike, still in current production (at least until a couple of years ago).

Joe

[SmithSwede]

Good point Joe.  A lot of us small block aficionados are former airhead types.  I had a 1978 R80/7.   How about you Joe?

[sign216]

Good point Joe.  A lot of us small block aficionados are former airhead types.  I had a 1978 R80/7.   How about you Joe?

Swede,

I've got a '58 BMW R50 (500cc).  I bought it 35 yrs ago as my first "big bike."  Remember when 500cc was big?
Thankfully I still have it, but it's in storage.

And Swede, as an aside, I visited a local Swedish shop to get a genuine Mora laminated knife, only to find they sell only candies and sweets.  Gave me a dumb look went I asked about the famous Swede steel industry.  Sad, right?
I got my Mora laminated knife elsewhere, and it's terrific! 

Joe 

[Kev m]

So Father's day (after the Guzzi lunch ride) I threw the IIID on the lift and drained the fluids, but didn't have a chance to get back to the service until today.



I still have to do the valves, but at least all the fluids and most of the other inspections are done.

I'll try to get the valves in the next couple of days.

Meanwhile here are a couple of thoughts to add to KRoy's excellent notes about the servicing these beasts.

* 24 mm wrench for the transmission drain plug. My 15/16" wrench fit almost perfectly. I'll probably buy a 24 eventually but if anyone else is in a pinch a decent 15/16" should work. Just be careful as there will be a tiny bit more play than with a 24. Access is tight, enough so that I have to use the open end as the offset box end won't fit between the pipes and frame.



* There was something that looked like black sealant or a destroyed O-ring on my transmission plug and filter screen. The O-ring for the screen was in place, and the O-ring for the plug was stuck to the bottom of the trans. Just be on the lookout for stuff like this.




* I measured fluids removed, I didn't quite get 475cc's out of the transmission, and that was after leaving it on the lift with the drain open for days. I did get almost exactly 170cc's out of the rear. I put about the same amounts I got out back in.



* I don't know if they actually greased the steering head bearings or the shaft drive, but they used so much on the wheel bearings that it was squizzing out a little bit from the front right wheel bearing seal. Wiped that up, will keep an eye on it.

* Oh and what's with all the different part numbers for oil filters. I have two different part numbers in the Mk I spare parts box, and got a third part number from AF1. But the filter that came OUT of the V7 was a different part number than what AF1 sent, and matched the part number of one of my MK I spares. And, other than labels, they all look exactly the same.



All in all, dead simple stuff.

[Muzz]

Malik,
Air filter change in the earlier V7/Breva/Nevada bikes isn't easy, especially if you use the factory approach.  But I found easier way on a Spanish site, and I used it for my tutorial, posted below in mssg #8.

Joe

You're right there Joe!

When I looked at your tutorial I found that it is the same method that I came up with.

[Muzz]

* I measured fluids removed, I didn't quite get 475cc's out of the transmission, and that was after leaving it on the lift with the drain open for days. I did get almost exactly 170cc's
All in all, dead simple stuff.

Interesting Kev that you got 170cc from the rear.  The Breva states 190, and the diff capacity is something I would have thought has not changed.

For my servicing I use a welded up conglomeration which uses the bottom rails and has two settings.  The first one for doing the fluids still has both wheels touching the ground.  On my first diff service I drained it, then added 190cc with the top drain open.  The oil just started to dribble out, so now I don't measure, just add oil through thee vent hole until the oil dribbles out the top inspection hole.  The first motor service I did the same thing, drain, add the 1.8 lit (for the 2TB), the check the dipstick once the motor was warm.  Level was spot on "full" and as it has never done the dreaded puke that's where I fill to now.

The second setting on my Muzza patented conglomeration has the rear wheel off the deck enough to be able to get it out to do tire change/spline lube tasks.  A bit Heath Robinson but it does the trick.

[Kev m]

My SWAG is that the change in recommended capacity doesn't represent a physical difference, but that it represents a change in philosophy.

I think they reduced the capacity perhaps to reduce instances of seal failures and/or vent overflow.

When I added 170cc I could see the level wasn't quite up to the level plug hole. Then I added another maybe 10 or 20ccs to bring it up to the hole. Which is what I've done with the mkI in the past too (and the mkI stated capacity is the same 170cc).

But in retrospect, I think I should have left it and probably will next time. But old habits (filling to the level plug) die hard.

The transmission is really hard to do.... To fill without any way of checking. I hate that!

[Muzz]

My SWAG is that the change in recommended capacity doesn't represent a physical difference, but that it represents a change in philosophy.

he transmission is really hard to do.... To fill without any way of checking. I hate that!

One area the old 5 speed comes out in front.

Again, 1 lit measured, and it just starts flowing out the side filler.  Makes servicing dead simple.   I can handle that!

[sign216]

One area the old 5 speed comes out in front.

Again, 1 lit measured, and it just starts flowing out the side filler.  Makes servicing dead simple.   I can handle that!

I never felt the bike needed a 6th gear.  It's got a broad torque range, making 5 speeds fine.  Was the 6th gear a marketing idea, to keep up with the industry?

[Kev m]

I never felt the bike needed a 6th gear.  It's got a broad torque range, making 5 speeds fine.  Was the 6th gear a marketing idea, to keep up with the industry?

Have you ridden one yet?

I love my MKI Stone, but I might like everything (except the trans refill procedure lol) better on the III.

It's funny though, as our fleet has morphed into 6-spd bikes with abs I've found myself searching for an additional gear more and more on our two remaining 5-spds (including the Stone).

I believe in an earlier thread I noted it meant a couple hundred lower rpm in top gear with the 6-spd.

Edit yeah:

MkI Stone - 75 mph = ~4700 rpm in 5th
MkIII D - 76 mph = ~4500 rpm in 6th

[Muzz]

I never felt the bike needed a 6th gear.  It's got a broad torque range, making 5 speeds fine.  Was the 6th gear a marketing idea, to keep up with the industry?

I sometimes wonder Joe if it was as much to get rid of the 5th gear running on the shaft with that Guzzi only split cage needle bearing.  Tolerances critical for both the shaft which acted as the inner and the gear that acted as the outer.

[sign216]

I sometimes wonder Joe if it was as much to get rid of the 5th gear running on the shaft with that Guzzi only split cage needle bearing.  Tolerances critical for both the shaft which acted as the inner and the gear that acted as the outer.

Muzz,
You hit it.  Guzzi improved the design of the top gear, and hey, if you are going to change things, why not add a 6th speed.
Thanks for injecting some of your hard-won knowledge. 
Joe

[Muzz]

Muzz,
Thanks for injecting some of your hard-won knowledge. 
Joe

    Bloody Ligi. 

[Kev m]

One more update on this thread in case others find it helpful.

First THANKS to the OP - his notes saved me time in multiple places as I grabbed  the right tool the first time/each time.

I finally had a morning to check and adjust the valves on the V7IIID in order to complete the break-in service I started last week. Then I took her for a test test ride.



I have to say that I'm pleased with everything I touched. My whole impression of the 18' V7III is that it shows a continual attention to details by the designers to improve/modernize the individual components and overall build if the bike.

I think my 13' Mk I showed similar improvements over my 06' Breva 11, as did the Breva over my 00' Jackal.

It's good to see and helps give me a lot of confidence in the product.

The valves were all pretty close, furthest off was intake on right side which was 007 instead of 004. No big deal, easily set.





Tips:

* Everything came off easily enough. I did find that on the left side the spark plug wire retainer with the torx bolts doesn't fit between the tank and the valve cover with the cover still installed. But the easy work around without having to raise the fuel tank was simply to remove the Torx head screws on the retainer, then remove the valve cover bolts and start to remove the cover. With the cover partially off it can be re-positioned so you can slide the spark plug wire and retainer out of the way.

* Finding TDC - I'm anal-retentive and I HATE not having timing marks to look at, but it wasn't too horrible using the straw method. I set the shifter to a higher gear and rotated the rear wheel (on the lift rollers) while watching the valves move. Once the intake valve closed I finally inserted the straw and bumped the wheel a few inches further at a time. I had to keep checking and pulling the straw out by hand and reset its position to keep it from getting pinched. An assistant here would be super helpful to keep their hands on the straw to pull it back slightly to keep it from getting pinched and then most importantly to tell you the second the piston starts to go the other way. I had to keep stopping, pulling the straw, and then checking each of the valves for play. The intake seemed to stay on the lobe longer than I would have expected after the valve closed. But in the end it was no big deal.

This adjustment reminds me that I need to get a proper valve adjustment tool to hold the valves when tightening the nut. I've always just used a pair of pliers, but it's too easy to allow it to nudge just slightly and then I have to loosen the nut again, readjust, tighten again. If anyone has a suggestion of a better way to hold the adjuster tab I'm all ears.

Anyway, after the adjustment I reset the Low rpm shift lights to 5500. I have to figure out what the actual redline is so that I can reset the high light too.

I geared up for a test ride and reset the traction control to the lowest setting (T1).

Then I was off for a little 60 test miles.

We're good!

[Bulldog9]

What a ripoff.  $230.00 for parts?  Oil and and an oil filter?  $230.00?!?! 

The valve tappet clearances are on a sticker under the seat.

I did my first service on my V7ii (which needs a head retorque)

Is basically:
A once over the bike
Head retorque (V 1 & 2 only)
Oil & filter change
Trans oil change
Final drive oil change  (I used vent plug to fill, uber easy)alve adjust
Check plug gaps
If you have guzzi diag relearn of parameters, if not, pull the main fuse or disconnect the battery to reset fuel trims.

I'm a goober, and used to the .10 and .15 valve adjustments on my other Guzzi's, will set to the correct .15 & .20 at the 3k mark when I install the Beetle Map.

[Muzz]

to get a genuine Mora laminated knife, only to find they sell only candies and sweets.  Gave me a dumb look went I asked about the famous Swede steel industry.  Sad, right?
I got my Mora laminated knife elsewhere, and it's terrific! 

Joe

My main "hunting" knife is a Frost laminated steel jobbie.  A story behind how I got it but over the years it has cut through hundeds of rabbit bones and has been given a quick tickle up twice.  A beautiful knife.

[Kev m]

Maybe Roy and I chose the wrong thread to leave break-in service tips for future V7III owners? Hope they can find it in here with everything else.