Author Topic: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.  (Read 8093 times)

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« on: July 11, 2016, 10:00:31 AM »
Ok. Possible stupid question.

First, the issue.

Both my and my wife's V7s have (as of this weekend) had the same issue.

Mine happened at about 8000-ish km. Mid ride, started surging, loss of power, cooked my right muffler. Blued before and and after the Cat. Mine required a call to roadside and a tow into the shop. Issue? Plug boot. Still waiting on replacement muffler 8 weeks later, gotta love Piaggio's "snap to it" service philosophy.

My wife's happened mid-road trip this past weekend. She's at about 3500 km. Highway speeds, loss of power, pulled over, same deal. Pipes blued before and after Cat. Hers, however, cleared up and ran fine afterwards. Appointment made, under warranty. We'll see what they say.

So...

My questions, possibly stupid:

1)Are all plug boots "resistors"? I ask because I made the mistake of combining a resistor cap with a resistor plug on one of my SOHC CB750s, and it resulted in piss-poor performance, until I figured it out and went back to a non-resistor plug.

2) any suggestions for boots? I've had good results with NGK on my SOHCs... but curious if anyone has replaced them and had good results, and if so, with what?

« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 10:02:21 AM by Toecutter »
Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

Offline sib

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Location: Smallest state, 221 times smaller than Texas, often compared to the size of an oil slick, forest fire, or ice sheet
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 10:05:20 AM »
Both the boots and the plugs have resistors on the V7s and V7IIs.  I know it seems redundant and possibly not a good idea, but that's the way they come.  Some have suggested replacement boots on other threads here, but they all seem to have resistors.

I have never had plug boot problems on my V7 and V7II, but I avoid riding in the rain.
Current: 2021 V7 Stone E5
Previous: 2016 V7II Stone
Previous: 2013 V7 Stone
Several decades ago: 1962? Honda CB77 Super Hawk

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 10:09:43 AM »
Service claims it's due to them being "easily torn"... I am skeptical. But... as it's under warranty... they can spend all the money they want on fixing it.

For the record, both bikes have the latest factory map, and are in mechanically stock condition (until warranty is up, and then it's "game on").


As for this "issue"... my dealer has seen about a half dozen of them, all with V7s.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 10:15:59 AM by Toecutter »
Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

Online Dave Swanson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4245
  • Northern Illinois USA
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 10:16:24 AM »
This is a common issue as you have found out. 

Here is a short tech article from Moto International

http://www.motointernational.com/service/tech-update-all-single-throttle-body-moto-guzzi-v7-models
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1974 Police Eldo
1976 Convert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario
2022 V85TT Guardia d'Onore
2023 V100S

MGNOC L-780

Wildguzzi.com

Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 10:16:24 AM »

Offline sib

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Location: Smallest state, 221 times smaller than Texas, often compared to the size of an oil slick, forest fire, or ice sheet
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 10:33:53 AM »
This is a common issue as you have found out. 

Here is a short tech article from Moto International

http://www.motointernational.com/service/tech-update-all-single-throttle-body-moto-guzzi-v7-models
Those recommended replacements still have resistors in both the plugs and the caps.  The difference is that the recommended replacement CPR8EA-9 plug has a threaded terminal, rather than the solid terminal of the OEM CPR8EB-9 plug, and the replacement cap is designed to engage the threaded terminal.  The new combo presumably makes a more secure connection

Incidentally, both the CPR8EA-9 and CPR8EB-9 plugs come with 0.9 mm gaps.  Although Moto Guzzi specifies a smaller 0.6-0.7 mm gap, I find that the engines run better with the 0.9 mm gaps.
Current: 2021 V7 Stone E5
Previous: 2016 V7II Stone
Previous: 2013 V7 Stone
Several decades ago: 1962? Honda CB77 Super Hawk

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 11:12:42 AM »
Dave. Nice! Thank you for that.
Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 04:16:51 PM »
XD05F

Offline Mikecocos

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 95
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 04:27:28 PM »
The same thing happened to me two weeks ago. My V7 Stone is not under warranty anymore and only has about 4Kms on it.  I replaced the plugs and plug covers using the parts listed in the Moto International article. With some help from this forum, the installation was pretty painless too.

I haven't gotten around to replace the mufflers yet. Luckily, I found a low mileage pair available on  ebay. They arrived late last week. Replacing the mufflers would have cost me a pretty penny had I needed to buy new ones.

The bike is running fine now... (I am crossing my fingers).

Cheers,

Mike

Offline sign216

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4829
    • Guzzi 750s - Breva, Nevada, V7, etc
  • Location: Taunton, Massachusetts
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 05:53:45 PM »
I've heard of plug boot/wire issues on other late model V7s.  Odd.  It's not new technology.  Makes me feel like two steps forwards, one step back....
09 Guzzi V7C
58 BMW R50
65 Gilera 106
69 Benelli 350

https://groups.io/g/Moto-Guzzi-750

Offline cmgies

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 193
  • Location: Tigard, OR
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 07:42:02 PM »
This happened to me on my 2013 V7 Special.  Do the pipes have to be replaced?  What about the cat?
Michael Gies
'73 R75/5 (sold it)
'07 Norge (sold it)
'13 V7 Special

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 07:44:54 PM »
Cats are in the pipes. Most likely badly damaged by the fuel combusting in them.

Pete

Offline cmgies

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 193
  • Location: Tigard, OR
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 09:21:21 PM »
Cats are in the pipes. Most likely badly damaged by the fuel combusting in them.

Pete
So do the pipes need to be replaced?  I think the local shop just replaced a spark plug or some such...
Michael Gies
'73 R75/5 (sold it)
'07 Norge (sold it)
'13 V7 Special

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 07:42:27 AM »
My muffler is being replaced under warranty... ya know... whenever Piaggio gets around to it. But, it's been approved by them... however, it's *almost* August, so it's probably "nearly-time-to-shut-down better-start-shuttin'-down" time. So I might see it around November.

Another question... are the stock boots the "screw on" type? Or do I have to cut the wires to get them off? How about at the coil side of things?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 07:44:06 AM by Toecutter »
Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

Offline jas67

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5439
  • Location: Palmyra, PA
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 10:42:10 AM »
I need to get my V7S in to the dealer to get the process of having the left muffler replaced.
It looks just like the one pictured on M.I.'s tech update.
2017 V7III Special
1977 Le Mans
1974 Eldorado
2017 Triumph Thruxton R
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2013 848 Evo Corse SE, 1974 750GT, 1970 Mk3d 450 Desmo, 1966 Monza 250
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2
2007 Vespa GTS250
2016 BMW R1200RS, 80 R100S, 76 R90S ,73 R75/5
76 Honda CB400F, 67 305 Super Hawk, 68 CL175

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 11:21:13 AM »
My dealer has seen more than a half-dozen of them just like it.

Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2016, 12:02:20 PM »
If these dealers ever bothered reading the Servicepiaggio website they would see the problem is known an a 'Technocal Update', (Piaggio weasel-word-speak for a recall announced.

Pete

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2016, 12:43:13 PM »
My dealer told me that Piaggio was denying that it was an issue at all.
Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

Offline spowell

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Location: Long Island, NY
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2016, 12:49:37 PM »
The same thing happened to me two weeks ago. My V7 Stone is not under warranty anymore and only has about 4Kms on it.  I replaced the plugs and plug covers using the parts listed in the Moto International article. With some help from this forum, the installation was pretty painless too.

I haven't gotten around to replace the mufflers yet. Luckily, I found a low mileage pair available on  ebay. They arrived late last week. Replacing the mufflers would have cost me a pretty penny had I needed to buy new ones.

The bike is running fine now... (I am crossing my fingers).

Cheers,

Mike

Did you have to run new wires, or do the stock plug covers just screw off?
Guzzi Newbie
2014 V7R

Offline tonUPRacer

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
    • My Racer FB page
  • Location: Appleton, WI
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2016, 01:01:37 PM »
Alas, I thought I was done with tinkering for this summer after replacing the VR and fuel filter...
2013 V7 Racer #393
2001 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1999 Ducati 900M (sold)
1979 HD XLS Sportster (sold)

Online slowmover

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 824
  • Locked in the arms of a crazy life
  • Location: Northwest Indiana formerly bankrupt Illinois
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2016, 06:50:00 PM »
Surprised there isn't more discussion on this.Do you replace the whole wire? How difficult is it?Is this just an issue with the V7s?Why hasn't it been an issue with the older bikes?

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2016, 07:28:38 PM »
Only an issue with some V7's Why? Because they are built down to the lowest price possible and rather than using NGK caps like they used to they now use some sort of bogan 'No-Name' cap that probably saves them a few cents a bike. Then it all goes udders skywards and they have to have a 'Technical Update' which is the recall you have when you don't want to admit you're having a recall and can therefore avoid the legal ramifications of one. It's the Piaggio way. Isn't it grand?

Actually it has been an issue with the 1200's as well but not as bad, their caps don't just fall to bits like the V7 ones. They only fail if you butcher them taking them off the plugs but its very easy to do and could be easily avoided by using a better cap.

Pete

Offline leafman60

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6795
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2016, 07:20:59 AM »
Not sure if these numbers fit the V7 but for info purposes-

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=61267.0

Offline sib

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Location: Smallest state, 221 times smaller than Texas, often compared to the size of an oil slick, forest fire, or ice sheet
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2016, 07:37:58 AM »
Only an issue with some V7's Why? Because they are built down to the lowest price possible and rather than using NGK caps like they used to they now use some sort of bogan 'No-Name' cap that probably saves them a few cents a bike. Then it all goes udders skywards and they have to have a 'Technical Update' which is the recall you have when you don't want to admit you're having a recall and can therefore avoid the legal ramifications of one. It's the Piaggio way. Isn't it grand?

Actually it has been an issue with the 1200's as well but not as bad, their caps don't just fall to bits like the V7 ones. They only fail if you butcher them taking them off the plugs but its very easy to do and could be easily avoided by using a better cap.

Pete
Without disagreeing, I'd like to make a couple of more positive points.  First, these motorcycles are remarkably inexpensive, considering what you get.  I got my first V7, a '13 Stone, for $8300, the MSRP, and if I had waited a while, I would have paid even less.  Second, most owners (myself included) have NOT had problems with the spark plug caps, even if they are not of the highest quality.  Every manufactured product is a compromise between quality and cost.  I think that Piaggio and Moto Guzzi got this one almost perfectly right, quite an accomplishment.
Current: 2021 V7 Stone E5
Previous: 2016 V7II Stone
Previous: 2013 V7 Stone
Several decades ago: 1962? Honda CB77 Super Hawk

Offline Dofin

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 232
  • Location: Pensacola, FL
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2016, 09:06:36 AM »
8k and I am already having issues with Boot to Plug arcing.  The tip of the plug shows scars and I have intermittent strong vibrations at hiway speeds.  Replacing the boots but bummed cause I just baught 4  plugs with hard tips cant screw them off!  Oh well.
76' Yamaha RD400
76' Suzuki GT500
89' Honda PC800
15' Guzzi V7 Stone

Offline Vagrant

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2136
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
when I did the 600 mile service on my 2015 V7 the left hand wire fell out of the boot as I took the cover off. it had no misfire but I wonder if this isn't the true problem. the other side was 2 turns loose also. I guess the Italians just don't like to screw any more. the bike now has 8000 miles on it and it runs great.
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2016 V7II, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2022 V85 the fast red one! 2016 650 Versys
L-196, L-197

Offline Toecutter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1039
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2016, 10:05:10 AM »
Hey, Vagrant!

Need some verification before I start yanking and twisting... the boots *are* the screw-on type, correct?
Old enough to say I've done it, young enough to do it again.

Offline Vagrant

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2136
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2016, 10:54:49 AM »
yes, I forgot to say I did cut about 1/4" off the wire end of the one that fell off.
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2016 V7II, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2022 V85 the fast red one! 2016 650 Versys
L-196, L-197

Offline aiken

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2016, 01:13:53 AM »
I am experienced with this problem also. During my two year warranty period,  a Champion spark plug installed from the dealer at a scheduled maintenance tune up "shorted out" and burned up the left catalytic converter. Bought a suitable stock replacement set on Ebay, as MG offered no warranty replacement. Engine replaced under warranty at 20,400 miles (another long, disappointing story) and bad NGK spark plug and bad plug wire caps on the new motor caused the right catalytic converter to burn up. New motor supposedly under warranty until March 2017, but no help from MG. Dealer replaced spark plugs and one O2 sensor, and pulled a set of "new and improved" plug wires and caps from a new V7II and put them on my bike, and I paid for it all. Bought a pair of Mistral Racer reverse cone slip on mufflers. Purchased new in February 2014, currently have 25,000 miles on it, and have yet to make it between an oil change interval without problem.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 05:59:29 PM by aiken »

Offline sib

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Location: Smallest state, 221 times smaller than Texas, often compared to the size of an oil slick, forest fire, or ice sheet
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2016, 06:54:16 AM »
....Dealer replaced spark plugs and one O2 sensor, and pulled a set of "new and improved" plug wires from a new V7II and put them on my bike....
Your dealer is lying to you.  The V7II plug wires are identical (same part numbers) as the previous ones.
Current: 2021 V7 Stone E5
Previous: 2016 V7II Stone
Previous: 2013 V7 Stone
Several decades ago: 1962? Honda CB77 Super Hawk

Offline stevet

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2111
  • What would Mr. Happy Puppet do?
Re: V7 Special/Stone plug boots.
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2016, 05:26:51 PM »
So which plug cap is it:
MI's NGK XBO5F, or
Pete Roper's NGK XDO5F?

Is there agreement on the spark plug, NGK CPR8EA-9?

And where is the likely place to obtain the caps?  I've been web searching some of my local auto parts stores websites for that NGK part and they don't have them.  And it's too late on the Saturday afternoon to start calling local MC shops.

I'll email my local MG dealer and ask them about the tech update.  Closed til Tuesday, though.

Thanks,
Steve.
Steve T.
Twin Cities, MN
Sophia, '16 Moto Guzzi V7 II Stone
Feejer, '10 Yamaha FJR
"Il Viaggiatore", The Traveler. A.K.A. Via. 2017 FIAT 124 Spider Classica

"What we do during our working hours determines what we have; what we do during our leisure hours determines what we are."
-George Eastman.

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here