Author Topic: Larios can do the elephant walk  (Read 8146 times)

Offline Simmoto

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2019, 03:39:56 PM »
Been a while....how's the Lario going with the elephants feet etc upgraded valvetrain?
Cheers
Dave
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 03:40:40 PM by Simmoto »

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2019, 04:35:03 PM »
Been a while....how's the Lario going with the elephants feet etc upgraded valvetrain?
Cheers
Dave
Totally perfect, cannot break it

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2019, 04:44:35 PM »
Just because



Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2019, 06:18:37 PM »
How many miles, now?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2019, 06:18:37 PM »

Online frozengoose

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2019, 07:46:34 PM »
up and running,  tickety boo, revs to moon, now only time will prove how long for but I am confident, first 100 miles awesome
pics for chuck, just looks like a v50 with funny  plumbing!!







Looks just like my v65 except for the pipes and front fender. Pretty suhweet!
Big Jon

Two old Guzzi's (V65 & T), 250E CZ, and 6 happy huskies.

Well, I've got a baby, she's a bad motorcycle
Brrooom-pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa-pa-paw
When we ride together, all through the night
She's got a real wild machine and it's out of sight
She goes brrooom-pa-pa-pa, paw-paw, motorcycle
Jerry Zee

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2019, 12:20:02 PM »
Chuck
Just over 6k miles but like you I disappear for winter so won’t see it again till nearly October.
Did check tappets before leaving, no movement, am happy

FG
Didn’t stay like that for long, plastic Racer tank gave me a couple more litres and 25 odd miles more range
Le Mans seat saved me some weight , missus won’t like it but actually way better for me , v65 seat was just too short in front section, will fit a v7 seat for 2 up as on my bb.
Front guard is same as yours, I just took it back to bare plastic, white is under paint
Pic as is now,



Online frozengoose

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2019, 03:04:01 PM »

FG
Didn’t stay like that for long, plastic Racer tank gave me a couple more litres and 25 odd miles more range
Le Mans seat saved me some weight , missus won’t like it but actually way better for me , v65 seat was just too short in front section, will fit a v7 seat for 2 up as on my bb.
Front guard is same as yours, I just took it back to bare plastic, white is under paint
Pic as is now,




Yeah that tank would come in handy here, gas stations, especially those that sell premium, are few and far between.

I replaced the plastic fenders with steel ones. The front is from a Honda, the back from a Triumph. I hate plastic stuff on a bike!







« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 03:06:44 PM by frozengoose »
Big Jon

Two old Guzzi's (V65 & T), 250E CZ, and 6 happy huskies.

Well, I've got a baby, she's a bad motorcycle
Brrooom-pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa-pa-paw
When we ride together, all through the night
She's got a real wild machine and it's out of sight
She goes brrooom-pa-pa-pa, paw-paw, motorcycle
Jerry Zee

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2019, 05:09:12 AM »
Yeah that tank would come in handy here, gas stations, especially those that sell premium, are few and far between.

I replaced the plastic fenders with steel ones. The front is from a Honda, the back from a Triumph. I hate plastic stuff on a bike!

Funny that, I’ve gone full circle, bought my Le Mans new with plastic front guard and glass seat base/mudguard
Fitted it and many others with ss front guards .
Eventually they cracked, as did T3 etc ss rear guards
Of course the glass seat base survived through hell and back
So, on that I refitted orig plastic guard, about to do same on my uk bike
On the v65 I had to bog the glass rear where people had drilled extra holes but easy as
Front I just got rid of paint and sanded back some road rash scars
Lighter and should last forever, I’m back where I started
But I do hate plastic bits that don’t do anything, didn’t intend to run sidecovers but when I rewired it I found that space where big battery, rectifier etc etc was is perfect for tools, puncture kit , spare gloves, etc. Sidecovers stop it all falling out so they do have function on my bike

Offline Simmoto

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2019, 05:46:27 AM »
Great to hear its running well  :thumb:
Cheers

Online frozengoose

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2019, 12:56:22 AM »
Funny that, I’ve gone full circle, bought my Le Mans new with plastic front guard and glass seat base/mudguard
Fitted it and many others with ss front guards .
Eventually they cracked, as did T3 etc ss rear guards
Of course the glass seat base survived through hell and back
So, on that I refitted orig plastic guard, about to do same on my uk bike
On the v65 I had to bog the glass rear where people had drilled extra holes but easy as
Front I just got rid of paint and sanded back some road rash scars
Lighter and should last forever, I’m back where I started
But I do hate plastic bits that don’t do anything, didn’t intend to run sidecovers but when I rewired it I found that space where big battery, rectifier etc etc was is perfect for tools, puncture kit , spare gloves, etc. Sidecovers stop it all falling out so they do have function on my bike

I guess I prefer the metal stuff cause I've gotten used to it on the old Triumphs and the T. The only time I had cracking issues with the SS fenders was on an old Tiger Cub that was ridden off road. Most of them had painted or chrome fenders, mild steel rather than SS, and didn't crack. The ones that are on the v65 are chrome, so we'll see how that goes.

I left the the side covers off cause I've only one battery that I switch off between the v65 and the T. I have looked into making metal covers, talked to a local shop and they said sure, make us patterns we'll do'er. So I made some wood patterns, followed the T's side covers mostly, cause they looked like a simpler shape to duplicate, but when I brought'em in, they said no way, can't do anything like that. So I'll probably put the plastic ones back on at some point, but I'd sure prefer metal.



« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 09:48:40 PM by frozengoose »
Big Jon

Two old Guzzi's (V65 & T), 250E CZ, and 6 happy huskies.

Well, I've got a baby, she's a bad motorcycle
Brrooom-pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa-pa-paw
When we ride together, all through the night
She's got a real wild machine and it's out of sight
She goes brrooom-pa-pa-pa, paw-paw, motorcycle
Jerry Zee

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2022, 04:49:42 AM »

[/quote]
up and running,  tickety boo, revs to moon, now only time will prove how long for but I am confident, first 100 miles awesome
Maybe biggest understatement on the net
Nearly 4 years later, thing still amazes me, gearchange  at 8500-9000 with a little pop, straight into the meat, then another, property addictive.
Or ride it slowly, gentle as a lamb
TICKETY BOO
Anyone contemplating Lario build
JFDI
But please, ignore the nonsnse google will find


Offline nsmith

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2022, 08:35:29 AM »
I just picked up a Lario 1986 with 10k miles. how can I tell if the valves have been worked on? Is there a simple (look at this) or am I in for a bunch of digging around? I ride very conservatively compared to what I'm reading here. Thanks 
Neil formally from South Dakota now living it up in Arkansas

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2022, 02:59:54 AM »
I just picked up a Lario 1986 with 10k miles. how can I tell if the valves have been worked on? Is there a simple (look at this) or am I in for a bunch of digging around? I ride very conservatively compared to what I'm reading here. Thanks
I can probably tell if someone’s been in there if you post a pic of valve spring compressed (valve FULLY open)
But read first post in this thread, it’s the cam you need to measure.
No matter how conservatively you ride, if the hardening is worn through (as it probably is) it will only wear more, until............
Measuring lift is not difficult but it is possible you could short cut that by getting an oil analysis , ring first and check they can tell, but logic says bits of camshaft have to show up in oil.
Or post pushrod or valve lift measurements here(dial gauge not ruler)
Measure all 4 lobes accurately

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2022, 11:04:59 PM »
Hi

I'm about to start preventative work on my Lario. It's done 50kms, and I know the first owner who rode it hard, including valve float a couple of times. It's history between him selling it in the early 90s and me acquiring it this year is unknown!
It might have had some work, it's an 88 and I've heard talk of lash caps used on the last ones? Mine has none and was running fine when I got it. However I have decided not to run it until I've made sure every thing will last.

Tomorrow I'm using a dial gauge on the rockers to see if there's any cam wear evident, but I'll probably pull the pistons and look. I'll post my findings once done.

I have a set of the later 2v springs as used by Iceblue, jacksonracingcomau you have spoken (I've been reading the threads!) of installed height etc being critical, but I've seen no figures, is there a figure I should be aiming for? Head assembly will be done by a local engine shop.

Also with the elephant feet mod, what ones exactly did you use? And what exactly needed doing to fit them? I think you said pushrods needed shortening?

I really want to get it right first time and have all the info to triple check everything before lighting the fuse!
Any help greatly appreciated!

Offline Muzz

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2022, 12:26:37 AM »
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Rev.

Don't forget to detail your journey.
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Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2022, 02:01:44 AM »
Well, got the heads off today. Before I did I measured as best I could the cams by dial gauge on the rockers over the push rods. First of all that's a really tricky thing to do when your dial gauge adjusts each axis individually.
So side to side they are within 0.1mm of the other side.
However I got figures of 5.5mm exhaust and 6.3mm inlet. I'm not sure what they should be.

the only sign of any wear so far is one adjuster on the L/H inlet has some marks on it. Everything else appears pristine, however someone has been in at least the L/H side before, head gaskets a different type (colour) and a missing washer on the top stud.

Am going to ponder on whether I just do the heads and put it back together, or pull pistons and do the bearings and rings as well. Doing that also apparently gives visual access to the cam 

Offline Bulldog9

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2022, 07:39:09 AM »
Different application, and not sure if it will hep, but when building High performance VW motors, it has become common to use elephant (swivel) foot adjusters for the swivel head and constant flat contact on the valve stem. My last build used 911 swivel foot adjusters in 1.7l Type 1 rockers due to the thickness of the adjuster screw (10mm?)  In order to get the rockers to clear the swivel foot (aka elephant foot) you had to machine 2mm off the valve side of the rocker. Pretty simple to do.

When I did my first Guzzi valve adjust in 2015, I was pleasantly surprised to find swivel foot adjusters. Part of the reason Guzzi's can rev as high as they do.  I actually run 0 clearance on my 2 liter Type 4. With a cam profile that provides a fat torque curve, and proper valve springs, that engine dyno'd at 155 at the crank, and a redline of 6500 (up from 5500).

Point of the ramble is if you find the swivel foot adjusters hit the bottom of the rocker, you can machine/grind the rocker a bit to get clearance. YMMV
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Offline Muzz

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2022, 03:45:20 PM »
Does it have the wider cams in it?

Not being a Lario guy I gather there are two widths and the wider type is a must.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2022, 05:21:23 PM »
It's supposed to being one of the later ones.

I might need to pull pistons and look for my self

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2022, 01:12:53 PM »
It's supposed to being one of the later ones.

I might need to pull pistons and look for my self
Trust nothing. If you want to have a reliable 4 valve, *everything* will need to be addressed. Don't ask me for the details, though.. as I've said many times I've forgotten more about Guzzis than some know.. but.. I've forgotten.  :sad:  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
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Online Huzo

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2022, 01:22:07 PM »
Quote from: jacksonracingcomau link=topic=98265.msg1824630#msg1824630 date=1657014582
JFDI
[/quote
HA…!
Good one.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2022, 07:47:56 AM »
Well, got the heads off today. Before I did I measured as best I could the cams by dial gauge on the rockers over the push rods. First of all that's a really tricky thing to do when your dial gauge adjusts each axis individually.
So side to side they are within 0.1mm of the other side.
However I got figures of 5.5mm exhaust and 6.3mm inlet. I'm not sure what they should be.

the only sign of any wear so far is one adjuster on the L/H inlet has some marks on it. Everything else appears pristine, however someone has been in at least the L/H side before, head gaskets a different type (colour) and a missing washer on the top stud.

Am going to ponder on whether I just do the heads and put it back together, or pull pistons and do the bearings and rings as well. Doing that also apparently gives visual access to the cam
It doesn’t, cam comes out through timing chest, then followers drop
I’d be pulling cam and followers before moving on if your numbers are even slightly accurate, Much easier to remove rocker pedestal and put dial gauge in pushrod cup OR measure valve travel directly on top collar
Elephant feet part number post #1
Pushrods need shortening to fit, all clearances checked (rockers to each other and to post)
Valve spring installed height depends on pressures with springs you use
I set mine at 75 on seat 150 fully open from memory, crucial that you don’t end up coil bound, no way I could work with Guzzi 2 valve springs for both reasons

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2022, 05:28:37 PM »
Thanks for that.
Yes this weekends job is to remeasure with the rockers remived.
Will see what that does. Was really hoping to not have to pull the cam

75 and 150, what units?


Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2022, 08:48:52 AM »
Thanks for that.
Yes this weekends job is to remeasure with the rockers remived.
Will see what that does. Was really hoping to not have to pull the cam


All the hope in the world will not fix it and you have to pull cam to get followers out for inspection anyway.
Half an hour of your life to do, an hour worst case

quote author=Mr Revhead link=topic=98265.msg1829466#msg1829466 date=1660256917]


75 and 150, what units?
[/quote]
English pounds, pressure (weight) not currency, yank ones the same, I think

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2022, 10:29:23 AM »
Thanks for that.
Yes this weekends job is to remeasure with the rockers remived.
Will see what that does. Was really hoping to not have to pull the cam

75 and 150, what units?

Any update ?
Don’t give up, all will be worthwhile when you ride it

Offline Mr Revhead

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Re: Larios can do the elephant walk
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2022, 09:05:25 PM »
Not giving up! Waiting on parts!

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore as I've decided I won't use elephants feet adjusters.

Anyway I pulled the heads off and measured direct on the pushrods.
All measured exactly 5.9mm.
I then pulled a cylinder and you can see the cam easily.  Cam looks as good as new, 14mm lobes.

So next step is to remove valves and springs and measure them up to see how they are as there is a chance someone has been in here before and applied a fix.

I have coming the Nevada springs, and I'll get my head shop to looking into sourcing valves.

So far it should be on the road for summer  :bike-037:

 

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