Rollerisation of the 8V.

[Wayne Orwig]

So, how are you getting along, Wayne?

It is a little hard to start. I think the ECU needs to learn the new mixture.

[Chuck in Indiana]

It is a little hard to start. I think the ECU needs to learn the new mixture.

Maybe needs a bump start? 

[Wayne Orwig]

Maybe needs a bump start? 

I thought about that, sitting in the rain, at 1 am, in the parking lot,  as I was trying to leave work. But then I realized that I would then simply then be at the bottom of a hill, in the dark, in the rain, at 1am. Trying to push that pig back up the hill with healing neck bones. Probably a bad idea.

[Vasco DG]

Some models require re-mapping after rollerisation. Can't remember if the early Stelvios fall into that category? Thing is I haven't used a factory map for eons, they're at best average. Would you like me to flip you Mark's single lambda non ABS Stelvio map to try?

Pete

[Wayne Orwig]

Some models require re-mapping after rollerisation. Can't remember if the early Stelvios fall into that category? Thing is I haven't used a factory map for eons, they're at best average. Would you like me to flip you Mark's single lambda non ABS Stelvio map to try?

I think I have a handle on that for now Pete. I have a couple of lambda off maps already. I'll get back to you later if I need it.

I cleared the ECU learned parameters. (I think) I reset the TPS of course. I found that I had the valve clearances a bit too wide (I had a heavy layer of assemble lube on everything initially) Also, I had the spark plug covers off, and as noted it was raining, so arcing at the caps may have also been involved.
In the dry, and after resetting the valve clearances, and (maybe) the ECU learned a new fuel trim, all is well. Or should I say, all is back to stock like conditions. Stock always did have a bit of a cold start issue.

Once I have the hardware stable, I may then tweak the map.
 

[Vasco DG]

The one I did yesterday we broke open the 'C' kit and Lo and behold one of the bags supposed to contain a valve shim was still perfectly sealed........ But empty! how do they manage to do that? Ship a bag of air halfway round the world! Luckily I had *Another* kit I raided for the shim but really! It is a bit hopeless!

Pete

[Wayne Orwig]

And there is a bag, per o-ring, for the valve covers.
Really. Just put two or three orings in a bag and save the time and effort.
I wonder how many dollars they spent, saving those pennies? Or Euros I guess.

Are you seeing a lot of variation in head gasket thickness? Both of mine were the thinnest versions.

[tazio]

So, how are you getting along, Wayne?

could be wrong, but Mr.Chuck may have been referencing your surgery outcome.
 How has that turned out, Wayne?
"Keeping your head on a swivel" whilst riding, and all that.??
Hoping for full recovery.

[Vasco DG]

And there is a bag, per o-ring, for the valve covers.
Really. Just put two or three orings in a bag and save the time and effort.
I wonder how many dollars they spent, saving those pennies? Or Euros I guess.

Are you seeing a lot of variation in head gasket thickness? Both of mine were the thinnest versions.

My 'C' kits come with all three thicknesses and they all seem to be fairly accurate to spec. Personally I'd prefer it if the parts droid just put the right number of bloody shims in a kit rather than a polythene bag full of his farts!

[canuck1969]

Just finished rollerizing my 2012 Stelvio.  All went well with the swap and no issues but I did notice one thing.  I have noticed that the cam chain clatter on cold startup on the right cylinder is more pronounced now.  Only does it for a second while the tensioners pump up.  If I turn the bike off and then back on again the chatter is gone as one would expect. If I leave it for 10 minutes or so and try again I get a very short clatter as the tensioners bleed down.   

No concern as the tensioners are doing what they are supposed to do and know this is completely normal as the sound goes away within a second, but has anyone else noticed this after their conversion.  May just be my mind playing tricks on me after preforming major surgery on the bike.  Only thing I can think of is the initial oil resistance has gone down causing it to take a little longer to pump up, but can't imagine from where (roller vs flat tappet oiling,....extra spark plug tube in the cam box.....???)

[pete roper]

Yup, I've noticed it too, no explanation I can think of as none of the bits that are changed should have any relevance to how long the tensioners take to pump up. Later engines also use a much larger reservoir in the barrel and these seem to be noisier on start up as well. I have no idea why the change was instituted as the earlier *Small* reservoir system never seemed to cause any problems I'm aware of.

Anyway, it's not something I plan on fretting about.

Pete

[Xlratr]

Same here. Just for a second.
John

[canuck1969]

Yup, I've noticed it too, no explanation I can think of as none of the bits that are changed should have any relevance to how long the tensioners take to pump up. Later engines also use a much larger reservoir in the barrel and these seem to be noisier on start up as well. I have no idea why the change was instituted as the earlier *Small* reservoir system never seemed to cause any problems I'm aware of.

Anyway, it's not something I plan on fretting about.

Pete

Me neither Pete, but just strange.  The 2012 does have the larger reservoir on the right.  Didn't take a close look at the difference between the cam boxes other than the big ass plug tube for the second non existence spark plug in the casting. Somehow changing the time for the overall pressure buildup in the system and therefore taking longer to build pressure in the tensioner, but who the heck knows from what.  Reduced resistance somewhere.......... ...

Like you said, nothing to fret about, but puzzling non the least.  Glad to know it wasn't my senility kicking in early.   

[Wayne Orwig]

I have noticed that the cam chain clatter on cold startup on the right cylinder is more pronounced now.  Only does it for a second while the tensioners pump up.  If I turn the bike off and then back on again the chatter is gone as one would expect. If I leave it for 10 minutes or so and try again I get a very short clatter as the tensioners bleed down.   

Same here. I thought I was imagining it. Once pumped up, mine is quieter though. No more cam thrashing front to back to rattle around like a bunch of loose gravel.

Maybe the cams against the rollers are a touch easier to load and unload the cam chain, so it is more noticeable for that 1.43729 seconds.

[Gliderjohn]

Will be picking up my now "rollerized" Norge from Harpers tomorrow and will ride it 220 miles home. Should be a good shakedown ride. Suppose to be sunny, 60s and with a light tail wind. Doesn't get much better than that.
GliderJohn

[twowings]

Congratulations!  I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight....

[pete roper]

Will be picking up my now "rollerized" Norge from Harpers tomorrow and will ride it 220 miles home. Should be a good shakedown ride. Suppose to be sunny, 60s and with a light tail wind. Doesn't get much better than that.
GliderJohn

Just remember John, no need to be gentle with it, just ride it *Normally*. Last 1200 Sport I did it did 193 on the break in. I left it as elapsed speed on the dash.....

Pete

[Gliderjohn]

Just remember John, no need to be gentle with it, just ride it *Normally*. Last 1200 Sport I did it did 193 on the break in. I left it as elapsed speed on the dash.....

Pete

I just have to remember to go slow enough most of the time so that my wife can keep me in sight following me in her Honda Accord until we get closer to familiar territory, then I can thrash it a bit. 
GliderJohn

[MotoG5]

Just finished rollerizing my 2012 Stelvio.  All went well with the swap and no issues but I did notice one thing.  I have noticed that the cam chain clatter on cold startup on the right cylinder is more pronounced now.  Only does it for a second while the tensioners pump up.  If I turn the bike off and then back on again the chatter is gone as one would expect. If I leave it for 10 minutes or so and try again I get a very short clatter as the tensioners bleed down.   

No concern as the tensioners are doing what they are supposed to do and know this is completely normal as the sound goes away within a second, but has anyone else noticed this after their conversion.  May just be my mind playing tricks on me after preforming major surgery on the bike.  Only thing I can think of is the initial oil resistance has gone down causing it to take a little longer to pump up, but can't imagine from where (roller vs flat tappet oiling,....extra spark plug tube in the cam box.....???)

Same here. Bugged me too at first. Does not seem to be an issue. 1200 miles on so far.
One question for the recently rollered. My bike is a 12' NTX. The mapping seems to be working for the most part but the popping on closing the throttle or engine braking seems to have become worse than with the flats. No that it was not present before but seems somewhat worse
now. It might just be need a TB balance or need to look at the the plug wires as they are the originals. Over all performance is OK. Any thoughts would be welcome.

[pete roper]

Pretty sure I know the problem. Gimme a bit of time I'll explain.

Pete

[MotoG5]

Pretty sure I know the problem. Gimme a bit of time I'll explain.

Pete

All ears Pete.

[WitchCityGuzzi]

Just finished rollerizing my 2012 Stelvio.  All went well with the swap and no issues but I did notice one thing.  I have noticed that the cam chain clatter on cold startup on the right cylinder is more pronounced now.  Only does it for a second while the tensioners pump up.  If I turn the bike off and then back on again the chatter is gone as one would expect. If I leave it for 10 minutes or so and try again I get a very short clatter as the tensioners bleed down.   

No concern as the tensioners are doing what they are supposed to do and know this is completely normal as the sound goes away within a second, but has anyone else noticed this after their conversion.  May just be my mind playing tricks on me after preforming major surgery on the bike.  Only thing I can think of is the initial oil resistance has gone down causing it to take a little longer to pump up, but can't imagine from where (roller vs flat tappet oiling,....extra spark plug tube in the cam box.....???)

My 09 as well. Sometimes takes 5 seconds or so to quiet down.

[MGrego]

2500 miles on my 8V since rollerization and I haven't noticed anything out of sorts at all.
No weird noises, no rattling timing chains, nothing --
It runs great, just like I would expect.  Yes, I hear some valve train noise, but that is a subjective assessment, and nothing that seems abnormal to me.
I'm beginning to believe it may not actually explode after all .....

[pete roper]

Same here. Bugged me too at first. Does not seem to be an issue. 1200 miles on so far.
One question for the recently rollered. My bike is a 12' NTX. The mapping seems to be working for the most part but the popping on closing the throttle or engine braking seems to have become worse than with the flats. No that it was not present before but seems somewhat worse
now. It might just be need a TB balance or need to look at the the plug wires as they are the originals. Over all performance is OK. Any thoughts would be welcome.

With certain bikes, I can't offhand remember if yours is one of them, a remap is required after the rollerisation. If this hasn't been done it will cause problems. I suggest clearing the trims as a first step though.

Pete

[MotoG5]

With certain bikes, I can't offhand remember if yours is one of them, a remap is required after the rollerisation. If this hasn't been done it will cause problems. I suggest clearing the trims as a first step though.

Pete

OK Pete, I am on board. Just treat me like a somewhat challenged step child. "Clear the trims"?????

[pete roper]

When the bike is running a closed loop map the ECU alters the fuel delivery using input from various sensors. There are short term 'Learned' parameters that take a few minutes for the ECU to adapt delivery for and then a longer term process that occurs over a period of hours and is stored in a less *flexible* manner within the programming.

When anything to do with the tune is changed these stored parameters may no longer suit the engine's condition. Yes, eventually, the ECU will once again trim around the changes but the process can be speeded up and aided by clearing what the ECU has 'learnt' and taking the ECU's settings back to the factory's baseline. This can be done using a diagnostic tool such as P.A.D.S or Guzzidiag by choosing the 'Re-set self learning parameters' option and clicking 'Yes' but for those without access to this tooling the same result can be achieved by either disconnecting the battery for thirty seconds or pulling the main 30A fuse. The only difference is that if you do it by the second method you'll loose your time settings an will have to re-set the clock when you reconnect.

Pete

[Gliderjohn]

Rode the Norge home from Harpers this afternoon. Differences? None that I could notice overall. Whether due to the battery being disconnected or whatever, the first 30 miles or so the motor was unsettled at idile and not as smooth as before at lower speeds. After that it smoothed out and behaved well and has ran as it should with no concerns since.
Because of the oil leak and wanting the mechanic to see the situation Harpers received a very messy bike. When I picked it up today it was cleaned up very nicely. Even got the free T shirt to say I have been there and done that.
Very nice ride home. Was 62 degrees when I left Harpers and and 70 degrees when I arrived at home with high cirrus clouds and light winds.
GliderJohn

[MotoG5]

When the bike is running a closed loop map the ECU alters the fuel delivery using input from various sensors. There are short term 'Learned' parameters that take a few minutes for the ECU to adapt delivery for and then a longer term process that occurs over a period of hours and is stored in a less *flexible* manner within the programming.

When anything to do with the tune is changed these stored parameters may no longer suit the engine's condition. Yes, eventually, the ECU will once again trim around the changes but the process can be speeded up and aided by clearing what the ECU has 'learnt' and taking the ECU's settings back to the factory's baseline. This can be done using a diagnostic tool such as P.A.D.S or Guzzidiag by choosing the 'Re-set self learning parameters' option and clicking 'Yes' but for those without access to this tooling the same result can be achieved by either disconnecting the battery for thirty seconds or pulling the main 30A fuse. The only difference is that if you do it by the second method you'll loose your time settings an will have to re-set the clock when you reconnect.

Pete

Got it! I have the diagnostic tool needed. I will give it a go and see what happens. Not a problem that was any kind of deal breaker but just one of those things that is kind of annoying. Using the second method is no issue either as with all the early leaking battery issues I had resetting the dashboard clock is one thing I have down pat. 

[pete roper]

If you have Guzzidiag and cables ask Jeff about Mark's Norge map and if it sounds like what you want just buy it. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[Xlratr]

If you have Guzzidiag and cables ask Jeff about Mark's Norge map and if it sounds like what you want just buy it. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Norge Map?? Isn't MotoG5's bike a twin probe Stelvio?
John