Moto Guzzi California EV- Loses power.

[dnfordps]

Looking for some information before I take it to the shop.  I have a 2003 Moto Guzzi California EV...ran great until this spring.  Full tank of gas seems to run great...but once I start getting down to about half a tank I lose power.  I pull over shut the enigne off (if it hasn't already died) check everything out I can..including looking into the tank. Turn it back on and runs great for another mile or two than the same thing happens.  When its losing power bike rides like it's out of gas. I am the second owner the first was my dad he never had this issue.  Looking to take it cross country this summer.

[Tom H]

Start with the simple things, like a clogged tank vent line. If you feel it's safe, ride it until it seems to run out of gas, then try riding it with the fuel cap loose. If it continues to run fine, look for a clogged vent.

The other option is the fuel line on the pump inside the tank has broken or come loose. Bit more work, but easily fixed.

Hope this helps,
Tom

[dnfordps]

Thank you...

[fotoguzzi]

when you open the tank do you hear a whoosh? that would be tank suck, a vent problem.
also there is a screen on the fuel tap that might be getting clogged.. or the electric tap is not opening, you should hear a metallic clank when you turn on key (put ear on tank).

[Kent in Upstate NY]

More than likely you have a clogged petcock filter. My bike had the same symptoms. I drained and pulled the tank and then pulled the petcock. Tons of crud. Cleaned the tank and filter and it was good to go.

[Wayne Orwig]

Does it happen worse at different RPM? I've seen mis-adjusted sidestand switches vibrate on and off.

[dnfordps]

Yes, whoosh when I pull the gas cap.
No, the RPM dont seem to matter.
The only real difference I notice is how full the tank is.

[rodekyll]

Your vent circuit isn't working -- reversed tipover valve/deliberately plugged hose/kinked hose/evap canister removed/vent in tank plugged, etc.  Sometimes it's just the way the tank was set obstructs the hose.  Clear the vent line and the problem should go away.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

10 bucks it is the petcock. The crud settles around the bottom of the filter. When you have a full tank the gas can enter through the top of the filter. When the gas level becomes even with the crud you get a loss of power. Letting it sit allows gas to seep past the crud and fill the fuel pump and you can go again. When I asked this question a year or so ago I got the same responses regarding venting. Pull your tank and give it a good cleaning.

[balvenie]

".............rides like it's out of gas".
Boy, that so reminds me of when my EV fuel pump died. It is possible to have the flow tested.

[rocker59]

I'd make sure the petcock screen is clean, then make sure the tank vent is working properly.

[Kiwi_Roy]

My EV would lose power on the hills it was a blocked main filter due to a very rusty tank
It sounds like yours is just tank suck though.

The EV is a great bike for a road trip, I suggest though you replace or carry a spare wheel bearing for front and back

[krglorioso]

Am I missing something here...Or maybe having a "Senior Moment"?  I have an '03 Stone Touring which uses the same power train as the 03 EV and there is NO PETCOCK on the '03 or '04 California (hydros) models, which all have the pump inside the tank. 

[Tom H]

Yes, whoosh when I pull the gas cap.

Your vent circuit isn't working -- reversed tipover valve/deliberately plugged hose/kinked hose/evap canister removed/vent in tank plugged, etc.  Sometimes it's just the way the tank was set obstructs the hose.  Clear the vent line and the problem should go away.

Am I missing something here...Or maybe having a "Senior Moment"?  I have an '03 Stone Touring which uses the same power train as the 03 EV and there is NO PETCOCK on the '03 or '04 California (hydros) models, which all have the pump inside the tank. 

I was thinking the same thing krglorioso. But since I'm new to the '04 EVT, thought there may have been one in the tank? But not listed per the parts diagram.

dnfordps: If you are mechanically inclined, I would check a few things. If not, you are now armed with some info to help cut the repair cost.

If it were me, I would run down the gas in tank or siphon it out to reduce it's weight. Pull seat, side covers and tool tray and unlock the gas cap. Remove tank bolt and slide the tank back a few inches so that you can CAREFULLY tilt the front of the tank up a few inches to access the vent in the front of the tank. I would pull the vent hose and add a new section of hose to blow through into the tank. With cap removed if you can blow into the tank, that's clear. If not use a fuzzy pipe cleaner or the like to clear it. If the tube was clear, then I would check the check valve. I would use a brake bleeder type suction gun attached to the hose, or just suck on the hose, to see if air can get past the check valve. Depending on how long the bike was sitting, it could have gummed up. Not sure how to clean it, but replace if required.

If this does not solve the problem, it may be farther down in the vent  system, like rodekyll mentioned.

This is where I would go first. If the vent system is not the problem, then it could be the fuel filter or the fuel pump in the tank as has been mentioned.

Hope this helps and good luck!
Tom

[Kiwi_Roy]

Do you have a chrome cylinder hanging down below the tank at the rear LH side?
If so thats the electric petcock, take the hose off it and run a temporary one into a can, gas should pour out there when you turn the key On.

Before you take the tank off always remove the ground lead off the battery that minimizes the chance of turning the key on and spraying fuel everywhere.

At the rear of the tank filler is a tiny hole designed to drain any water out of that area instead of running into the tank, dribble a little gas or light oil into
it to make sure it drains away.

[Wayne Orwig]

Am I missing something here...Or maybe having a "Senior Moment"?  I have an '03 Stone Touring which uses the same power train as the 03 EV and there is NO PETCOCK on the '03 or '04 California (hydros) models, which all have the pump inside the tank.

In 2003, there was a mix. Whatever they had on the shelf. By 2004, they all had the pump in the tank and no petcock.

One thing that will happen, if you have a bad petcock or plugged strainer, when the fuel gets hot, it will start to vapor lock until it cools off.

[dnfordps]

great Suggestions! Thank you all...I think I can get the tank off clean it and check the simple things myself. But for the fuel pump or anything further down I will have to send it to the shop.  Hoping the weather will cooperate and I can get this done tomorrow.

my manual is a little confusion and there seems to be a difference in what is in the tank verses what is hanging off the tank when i look at the diagrams. I had heard that the problem with this year that they just grabed stuff off the shelf

[dnfordps]

Great Suggestions! I really appreciate the help...though I have been riding most of my adult life I am by no means a mechanic. For those of you that are following up...problem solved bike is running perfect. The problem was caused by a Clogged Vent line.

Thanks Again!

[rocker59]

Great Suggestions! I really appreciate the help...though I have been riding most of my adult life I am by no means a mechanic. For those of you that are following up...problem solved bike is running perfect. The problem was caused by a Clogged Vent line.

Thanks Again!

Thanks, for the followup.   

[Wayne Orwig]

That is interesting. Since the pump should have enough power to suck a full vacuum, the vent shouldn't mean much.
But, if you have the pump in the tank, that would also goof up the regulator reference. So......maybe....
Need more coffee.

[rodekyll]

That is interesting. Since the pump should have enough power to suck a full vacuum, the vent shouldn't mean much.
But, if you have the pump in the tank, that would also goof up the regulator reference. So......maybe....
Need more coffee.

Not to be argumentative, Wayne, but why do you think the pump should be able to pull a vacuum?  I've got vacuum pumps in my shop -- believe me -- they're a completely different class of animal than a fuel pump.

Everything I've read and been told (I talked to the good folks at Carter Racing, who makes efi pumps) says the pump is very weak on the 'suck' side.  That's one reason the filter is downstream of the pump why the external pumps are under the tank, and one reason why they eventually moved the pump to inside the tank.  I've used the external pump to evacuate a marine fuel tank, and it was unable to suck a 2' column of gas.  On the trike I starved a pump to death trying to suck gas the height of a jerry can.

And think about it another way -- if the pump WAS capable of pulling a full vacuum AND the tank vent was plugged, you'd crumple the tank like a wad of tin foil with the pressure differential.

So I'll respectfully disagree.   

[Wayne Orwig]

Not to be argumentative, Wayne, but why do you think the pump should be able to pull a vacuum?  I've got vacuum pumps in my shop -- believe me -- they're a completely different class of animal than a fuel pump.

Everything I've read and been told (I talked to the good folks at Carter Racing, who makes efi pumps) says the pump is very weak on the 'suck' side.  That's one reason the filter is downstream of the pump why the external pumps are under the tank, and one reason why they eventually moved the pump to inside the tank.  I've used the external pump to evacuate a marine fuel tank, and it was unable to suck a 2' column of gas.  On the trike I starved a pump to death trying to suck gas the height of a jerry can.

And think about it another way -- if the pump WAS capable of pulling a full vacuum AND the tank vent was plugged, you'd crumple the tank like a wad of tin foil with the pressure differential.

So I'll respectfully disagree.   

You are apparently correct, but I would have thought that a pump that could push over 3 bars of pressure all day would have little issue pulling 1 bar. (at some point it would vapor lock though)

And I have seen a number of external pump bikes with the fuel tap broken, and the pump has little issue sucking it open.

I have to wonder, if this is a pump in the tank model, the internal pressure regulator will get screwed if the tank has a vacuum on it.

[rodekyll]

If the pressure regulator referenced tank pressure I could see it getting confused by a bad tank vent.  However, I *think* it's a simple spring and ball - type regulator and just pumps against the resistance until the spring valve opens, peeing the excess back into the tank.

The external pump on the other hand uses a regulator with an atmospheric reference.  We know that messing with the little 'vent' spigot on that regulator changes the way it sees atmosphere and therefore pressure (there's a current topic where the OP is describing what happens when he plugs it). 

I have an internal and an external pump on different bikes.  There's virtually nothing I can do to change the fluid pressure on the internal pump.  I can wreak havoc on the external one by playing with the spigot on the regulator.  And tinkering with the fuel pressure even by 1.5# (0.10 BAR) changes the running characteristics of the engine.  Try it.  You'll be amazed.