V9 vs Harley 1200 Custom Review

[TalbotMatra]

Fairer comparison is the 883 vs V9

And here the facts why a comparison between the HD 883 and the V9 is absolutely not fair: 

Top speed: HD 883: 160 km/h; MG V9 170 km/h
0-100 km/h: HD 883 7,1 sek; MG V9 5.3 sek
0-140 km/h: HD 883 14,5 sek; MG V9 10.4 sek   
60-100 km/h: HD 883 7,5 sek; MG V9 5.8 sek
100-140 km/h: HD 883 9,9 sek;  MG V9 7.8 sek
(HD 883 = Harley-Davidson Sportster Iron 883 )

lame duck vs wildgoose 

Ciao
Lars

[Kev m]

And here the facts why a comparison between the HD 883 and the V9 is absolutely not fair: 

Top speed: HD 883: 160 km/h; MG V9 170 km/h
0-100 km/h: HD 883 7,1 sek; MG V9 5.3 sek
0-140 km/h: HD 883 14,5 sek; MG V9 10.4 sek
60-100 km/h: HD 883 7,5 sek; MG V9 5.8 sek
100-140 km/h: HD 883 9,9 sek;  MG V9 7.8 sek
(HD 883 = Harley-Davidson Sportster Iron 883 )

lame duck vs wildgoose 

Ciao
Lars

It should be noted that the export 883's are normally given the taller final gearing of the 1200's for better highway manners.

For US/North America models they are geared lower for better acceleration and more fun in backroads at the cost of highway comfort.

So those numbers would be different in the home market.

[MMRanch]

My first Sportster was the 04-1200   I liked that tall gearing
My second Sportster is the 07-883 ... it didn't take me long to put the TALLER  PRIMEARY off a 1200 on it , and the TALLER FINAL drive too.   Now my 883 just Loves the Super-Slab ...     If ya could run up to the 6000 rpm limit , you'd be running about 155 ish.   

Yea , the drive sprocket on the primary of the 1200 is 4 teeth bigger , and the final drive pulley on the 1200 is 2 teeth bigger.

The V-7II is a lot quicker , but on top-end there ain't much difference .   They both will do 100 mph but not much more.

On a twistie road , I'll take the V-7 every time ! 


 

[Kev m]

On a twistie road , I'll take the V-7 every time ! 

It's different for me since the players are an 07 1200Lr (Roadster) vs a 13 V7 I Stone.

The Sporty has a clear advantage in power,  comfort (highway or back road), and 2-up.

When it gets twisty I enjoy both equally but differently, though the Stone had a slight edge in handling.

No matter, I love them both.

[Kev m]

Oh John got me curious earlier.

Looks like the 2018 114" Heritage Softail is a 13.23 1/4 mile according to CW:

https://www.cycleworld.com/2018-harley-davidson-softail-heritage-classic-114-cruiser-motorcycle-review#page-7

That sounds reasonable based on my demos.

[JohninVT]

So....despite being 568CC's smaller than the biggest, baddest, newest HD engine the Touring is still .4 seconds quicker to 60 and more than .3 quicker in the 1/4 when tested by the same magazine(4 seconds 0-60 and 12.88 in the 1/4).  Cycleworld also got a 12.48 in the 1/4 from the Custom.   

https://www.cycleworld.com/2014/05/27/honda-ctx1300-deluxe-vs-moto-guzzi-california-1400-touring-cruiser-comparison-test-review-photos-specifications#page-3

https://www.cycleworld.com/2013/04/09/exclusive-test-moto-guzzi-california-1400-custom-review-photos

Not that 1/4 mile times really matter when choosing a bagger.  I was only trying to make the point that if engine performance is a criteria MG is more than competitive with the competition whether it's the Touring against the Softail or a V9 against an 883.  One thing Harley has really knocked out of the park is in braking performance.  The days of being scared you're going to bounce off the back of a car at stop lights because a death grip on the brake lever merely slightly impedes forward motion are LONG gone.  Some of the big Harleys have stopping distances on par with the best sportbikes.  Last Fall for the first time in my motorcycling life I seriously cross shopped Harley's.     

[Kev m]

So....despite being 568CC's smaller than the biggest, baddest, newest HD engine the Touring is still .4 seconds quicker to 60 and more than .3 quicker in the 1/4 when tested by the same magazine(4 seconds 0-60 and 12.88 in the 1/4).  Cycleworld also got a 12.48 in the 1/4 from the Custom.   

https://www.cycleworld.com/2014/05/27/honda-ctx1300-deluxe-vs-moto-guzzi-california-1400-touring-cruiser-comparison-test-review-photos-specifications#page-3

https://www.cycleworld.com/2013/04/09/exclusive-test-moto-guzzi-california-1400-custom-review-photos

Not that 1/4 mile times really matter when choosing a bagger. 

Not sure where I raised any points against all of this, I just pointed out the 15's were a bit misleading.

And I would circle back to that last point I quoted.

My only reason for still mentioning it is that it gives a frame of reference to one aspect of both bikes so a little more precision isn't bad.

I will say that personally I've never been bothered by any differences in acceleration between my Harleys and my other bikes (like BMWs and Guzzis). Maybe that's why I can buy any of them in the first place as none of them (at least the models they have held any interest for me) have never been top dogs and the differences in that category are largely RCHs in my book.

I'll go so far as note that just as I chose my V7 over my 100 rwhp Buell I also chose a 103" RK over a Cali.

The RK is even quicker than I need it to be, but it's not problematic (i.e. as recklessly tempting) as the Buell and I expect the Cali would be the same for me in the long run.

But I purchased on a number of other factors, the most important one being I just liked the RK more.

Oh yeah you're right, after many years they did finally get brakes right lol, by going to Brembos and, I'm shocked I'm saying this, but the electronically linked ABS system is impressive. I never thought I would haul down an 800# beast of a Harley with one finger. Go figure.

I know a lot of Guzzisti are frustrated with offerings that don't speak to them, but I'm pretty happy with most of the offerings from Guzzi right now. I count myself lucky to have bikes from a number of brands that very closely match my wants these days.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I don't believe you can farily compare Sportster to any Moto Guzzi due to so many differences in design and intended use...it would be the same as comparing a V9 to the several other European 900 cc twins that  are a lot faster..And as always with a Harley comparison to any other bike, it's always about how "slow" Harleys are for the engine size...

[Kev m]

I don't believe you can farily compare Sportster to any Moto Guzzi due to so many differences in design and intended use...it would be the same as comparing a V9 to the several other European 900 cc twins that  are a lot faster..And as always with a Harley comparison to any other bike, it's always about how "slow" Harleys are for the engine size...

No no no,

My Jackal and my Sporty were WAY MORE similar than different.

Size, weight, comfort, power, handling.... There were differences sure, but much smaller between the two than between a bunch of other bikes even in the same general categories.

[Rough Edge racing]

No no no,

My Jackal and my Sporty were WAY MORE similar than different.

Size, weight, comfort, power, handling.... There were differences sure, but much smaller between the two than between a bunch of other bikes even in the same general categories.

 Well, not to me, because first and foremost, the engine is centerpiece of any bike, in my opinion....A Guzzi has a very unique engine feel,   ...The rubber mount Sportster has a completely different engine feel and it affects the sensations the rider gets from the machine. And from my experience, in certain handling situations, a difference in feel due to the engine and swing arm not directly bolted to the main frame. It's similar to how a rubber mount vintage Norton Commando feels.. It's not bad, just different.
 

[Kev m]

Well, not to me, because first and foremost, the engine is centerpiece of any bike, in my opinion....A Guzzi has a very unique engine feel,   ...The rubber mount Sportster has a completely different engine feel and it affects the sensations the rider gets from the machine. And from my experience, in certain handling situations, a difference in feel due to the engine and swing arm not directly bolted to the main frame. It's similar to how a rubber mount vintage Norton Commando feels.. It's not bad, just different.
 

I can't argue with any of that being true to an extent though that feeling of the swingarm will vary with condition of the motor mounts and you can install stiffer bushings if desired.

Also, I will say the those are among the biggest differences between the two.

But then I'll argue extent.

I mean the Guzzi 2V Tonti motor and Harley Sportster motor are much more similar to each other than either is to a parallel twin, or boxer, or triple, or L4, etc.

[Rough Edge racing]

I can't argue with any of that being true to an extent though that feeling of the swingarm will vary with condition of the motor mounts and you can install stiffer bushings if desired.

Also, I will say the those are among the biggest differences between the two.

But then I'll argue extent.

I mean the Guzzi 2V Tonti motor and Harley Sportster motor are much more similar to each other than either is to a parallel twin, or boxer, or triple, or L4, etc.

  You have more experience on those bike so I can't argue the point...

[twowheeladdict]

Yeah I see a lot of mid 12's and a few reports of 13's on the Cali 1400.

But I don't know where you're getting 15's on the touring models as the vast majority of reports are in the 13's and 14's.

A few sources (and I checked my old MCN chart too, it had maybe one Ultra in the 15s):

Most reports here were 13.3. - 13.9 with ONE 15.5 (and that was a 2011):

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/harley-davidson-0-60-mph-times/

TC96 2010 Street Glide 13.87:

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/harley-davidson-street-glide-vs-victory-cross-country-town-country

TC103 2014 Street Glide Special 13.31:

https://www.cycleworld.com/2013/09/03/2014-harley-davidson-street-glide-special-road-test-review-photos-specifications

Having a Harley touring bike with fast drag race times is definitely not why I buy a touring bike.  For me it is about all day in the saddle, day after day.  Creature comforts and enough handling characteristics to not be dangerous.  For me a frame mounted fairing is a requirement for a good touring bike.  My touring bikes have been the Kawasaki Voyager XII, the Vulcan Voyager 1700, and now the Road Glide Ultra.  My sport touring was the Concours 1400, and the Triumph Trophy SE.  I could never get comfortable on the Goldwing even though I made numerous attempts during test rides. 

Of course, if you want your Harley to be quick, there are definitely a plethora of aftermarket vendors that will oblige you and your wallet.

[twowheeladdict]

I don't believe you can farily compare Sportster to any Moto Guzzi due to so many differences in design and intended use...it would be the same as comparing a V9 to the several other European 900 cc twins that  are a lot faster..And as always with a Harley comparison to any other bike, it's always about how "slow" Harleys are for the engine size...

My 103 Road Glide is noticeably faster than my '10 Voyager 1700 was.  And smoother at low RPMs as well.  In '10 the Voyager was a better bike.  In '16 the Road Glide Ultra is a far superior ride.  Kawasaki has made no improvements since '09 when the Voyager 1700 was introduced.

[Darren Williams]

The V9 and the Sportster (almost all the Harley cruisers) have similar riding positions, that are similar to the Guzzi California lines, which are similar to any number of Japanese and Triumph cruisers.  Feet forward of your butt, low seat, longish wheel base.

I could stuff a CBR600RR engine in any one of those bike and I would still have a cruiser, just one with a radical high revving beast of a motor. The engine would not change low seat and forward feet and long wheel base.

The Harley motor is different from the Guzzi motor and that is different from a Triumph Speedmaster parallel twin motor. A lot of the Japanese "Harley clones" are similar by design, but still different.

I think it's great we have all these choices for what characteristics we want our cruiser bikes engines to have. To me the comparison of the V9, older V11, or new 1400 Guzzi's to the big lineup of Harleys is good because it shows we have choices.   

My choice is for a bike with my feet under my butt, with a slight lean forward. YMMV