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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Duvn8r on September 19, 2021, 08:16:33 PM
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Hi All,
just after some general advice here if you guys can spare a moment:
I've pulled the rear wheel off my 2000 Cali Special to give it some much need rubber and wonder whether I need to do rear wheel bearings at the same time.
on the bike there is no play but off the bike if I use the axle bolt I can see a minute amount of play on each bearing, what's normally tolerable in this space? and is it worth just doing coz i'm there?
the bike has about 46500kms on it....
I'm also chasing a couple of oil leaks and have found what seems to be seeping form the RPM/TDC sensor mount and the neutral indicator mount gasket, these seem easy enough to reconcile with some sealant on the former and a gasket on the latter, just wondering of it's "normal" so to speak
But whilst I'm here and we're in another bout of - lockdowns should I be checking other things like clutch, rear drive, rear driveshaft uni joints....etc..etc. ..
Gear oil and final drive oil were replaced at 39600kms, also had top end rebuild at 41750kms (minus rocker arm pivot bushes....)
I know this is a how long is a piece of string type query but I'm more interested in what normally gives grief and would be worthwhile checking out, replacing etc. at this stage of the bike's life.
Also are there any recommendations for lithium batteries to replace the lead acid? I've slowly been customising her and realised in the removal and redesign of side covers and guards I can now see the battery poking out at the back of the frame and am looking to redesign the battery bay layout so a smaller battery will be in order.
Many thanks in advance
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Some will call me crazy but I'd replace all wheel bearings on a 2000 M/Y motorcycle as a matter of course. And a lot of other stuff, too.
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465,000 km and you live in Victoria/Australia.
My # is 0437070946
May I have the honour of meeting you ?
Peter...(Huzo)
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Some will call me crazy but I'd replace all wheel bearings on a 2000 M/Y motorcycle as a matter of course. And a lot of other stuff, too.
ok cheers, so all wheel bearings are a go, what other stuff comes to mind?
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The bearings are available at almost any bearing house , cheap .
What happened that the top end needed rebuilding at that low mileage ?
Dusty
Hi Dusty, it started when i found a crack in the RH cylinder bore that went up from the bottom to just before where the fins start and then did a T intersection and started radiating around the cylinder necessitating barrel replacement, whilst apart I found the valve stems were loose and leaking so i got Basil @ headworks to put in K liners and new valves etc. there's also wear in the rocker pivot pins but I'll get to those another day
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465,000 km and you live in Victoria/Australia.
My # is 0437070946
May I have the honour of meeting you ?
Peter...(Huzo)
Hi Peter,
only 46500...but would be keen to meet, i'm on the south side of Geelong, I'll shoot you a text.
Cheers,
Phil
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Is the mileage 400 thousand K's or 40 Thousands K 's ? Not trying at all to be snarky , just curious . Thanks .
Dusty
thousands, not hundreds of thousands
46,000km
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Hmmm, must be living on borrowed time. All the bearings where replaced in 1990 when it had about 40,000 miles and has over 107,000 miles now. The front wheel and bearing was replaced at around 80,000 miles after a small street accident. Everything seems good and tight.
GliderJohn
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OK , thanks , Huzo was confused , his normal state :evil:
I just know you were joking Dusty, weren’t you.....(I left the question mark out on purpose).
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the bike has about 46500kms on it....
:embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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OK , thanks , Huzo was confused , his normal state :evil:
Anyway , can't hurt to do the bearings while you have the wheel off , have known them to go 100,000 Kms , and the other end fail at 30,000 Kms .
Oh , the rear bearings are different than the fronts , although you probably already know that .
Dusty
re: bearings, i'm learning the differences and things as I pull bits apart
re: Huzo, I'm leaving that one alone!
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As for your other questions , do a quick search here , the U joint etc are probably OK .
Trust me , you can't ignore Huzo , he's like a force of Nature :laugh:
Dusty
Jeez mate....
Hardly.
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Since you’re there and have the time..
Pull the swingarm too..large really fine thread mini axles, and their bearings on both sides like attention…they get creamed in wet weather…measure them sticking out before dissassembly…lube/check/replace shock bushings…
With the swingarm out, check the driveshaft bearing and universal…zero play on the uni…if you replace one replace both w the understanding it’s an interference fit before you reinstall the swingarm…the right plumbing tube can hold the uni straight while being pressed in…local machine shop can help…
When you pick up the new bearings, feel how smooth they are by pressing and turning…compare that ‘feel’ w the old ones in the bike…no grit, no grumbles thru your fingers, don’t replace them…put the new ones in your luggage and you’ll never need them again…just because you have spares on the bike..lol
Ceracote or paint the swingarm?
Measure by caliper the reinstalled swingarm mini axles..Lube the driveshaft fore and aft on reassembly…close the swingarm by tightening the four bolts on the drive to swingarm, last…after torquing the axel
Lots of gritty mess underneath the rear once the swingarm is out
Great fun
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Since you’re there and have the time..
Pull the swingarm too..large really fine thread mini axles, and their bearings on both sides like attention…they get creamed in wet weather…measure them sticking out before dissassembly…lube/check/replace shock bushings…
With the swingarm out, check the driveshaft bearing and universal…zero play on the uni…if you replace one replace both w the understanding it’s an interference fit before you reinstall the swingarm…the right plumbing tube can hold the uni straight while being pressed in…local machine shop can help…
When you pick up the new bearings, feel how smooth they are by pressing and turning…compare that ‘feel’ w the old ones in the bike…no grit, no grumbles thru your fingers, don’t replace them…put the new ones in your luggage and you’ll never need them again…just because you have spares on the bike..lol
Ceracote or paint the swingarm?
Measure by caliper the reinstalled swingarm mini axles..Lube the driveshaft fore and aft on reassembly…close the swingarm by tightening the four bolts on the drive to swingarm, last…after torquing the axel
Lots of gritty mess underneath the rear once the swingarm is out
Great fun
Hi Chuck,
thanks for the task list and tips, much appreciated.
the swing arm will come off for sure but I'll probably leave the rear drive alone i.e. I'm not planning to disassemble unless there are known problems in the area.
It actually looks good coating wise....it's the frame that's looking for a powder coat , just not sure if I'm gonna go that far....i do want to ride it after all...
which are the shock bushings? are they the spacers that sit between bearings and frame on the swingarm pivots?
Thanks again, let the fun begin!
Cheers,
Phil
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You say you've oil weeping from the rev sensor. I use some Threebond on the o-ring to fix that. Threebond will likely work fine for the neutral sensor as well.
Re the battery - you're lucky 'cos you live in Aust - recommend SSB - Powersports lithium - I get mine from Batteries Direct in Padstow NSW - sometime the postage is free & sometime it's $10. There's 2 or 3 different ones that should be suitable. Superior CCA are fantastic & 1.1kg is a bonus. Check out the website for the sizes & more details.
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You say you've oil weeping from the rev sensor. I use some Threebond on the o-ring to fix that. Threebond will likely work fine for the neutral sensor as well.
Re the battery - you're lucky 'cos you live in Aust - recommend SSB - Powersports lithium - I get mine from Batteries Direct in Padstow NSW - sometime the postage is free & sometime it's $10. There's 2 or 3 different ones that should be suitable. Superior CCA are fantastic & 1.1kg is a bonus. Check out the website for the sizes & more details.
thanks Malik,
I'll definitely look both items up
again much appreciate the tips coming thru from everyone!
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As a shock moves up and down, it also wants to rotate very slightly at the mounts..
Most shocks like a little grease there to help smooth the rotation…it’s also an opportunity to check the bushings, or whatever method your bike uses
(https://i.ibb.co/ncwDWgq/D058-D978-76-C3-427-F-A273-FE65-D79603-BF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncwDWgq)
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No one mentioned to lube the drive shaft and rear drive to wheel splines when you have it apart, very important thing to do. DonG
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As a shock moves up and down, it also wants to rotate very slightly at the mounts..
Most shocks like a little grease there to help smooth the rotation…it’s also an opportunity to check the bushings, or whatever method your bike uses
(https://i.ibb.co/ncwDWgq/D058-D978-76-C3-427-F-A273-FE65-D79603-BF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncwDWgq)
Cheers, Chuck
I've replaced the original rigid set up with some Ikons for a slightly better ride about a year or so ago so they should be ok but will check and also lube the pivot bushes/mounts.
Cheers,
Phil
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No one mentioned to lube the drive shaft and rear drive to wheel splines when you have it apart, very important thing to do. DonG
Thanks Don, good call,
just pulled the rear drive off and there was some interesting thick gunk on the drive shaft so it'll get cleaned and lubed....
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another question (or 2), is it worth pulling the rear drive apart?
or checking cush rubbers in the rear wheel assembly?
I'm not really wanting to if they are know to be relatively trouble free areas or known points of wear and gremlins....the rear drive looks ok from the outside looking in and I don't think the bike has had a hard life except for what I've given it over the past 10,000 or so kms.....
just handy to know the life expectancy of some of these things to see if i can keep unnecessary costs down.
thanks again all, you've been a great help
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You could pull the pinion assembly out and check the pinion nut torque just cuz your there. if it is not leaking dont open it up. DG
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so i got the swing arm off , seems you have to hold your tongue the right way to get there tho....
the uni looks good, no wear type movement at all, but there was this brown oily kinda sludge hanging out in the bottom, is this normal? (see photo)
(https://i.ibb.co/jZHnTRy/20210924-140823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jZHnTRy)
Also is it possible to get the bearing oil/dust seal on the pivots out without breaking them so I can repack the pivot bearings or are these a one hit consumable item?
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You could pull the pinion assembly out and check the pinion nut torque just cuz your there. if it is not leaking dont open it up. DG
hmmm....I'll see how i go...might let that one be and agree with your second point
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Your foto is a great example of that uni joint area..I’m guessing the heating and cooling inside that closed area creates moisture. That is h2o not oil? Rust, then grit, then no more uni over time
Makes me think of drilling a small hole to vent…or alternatively…push some grease/oil/lubricant into that closed section just to keep water out
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Your foto is a great example of that uni joint area..I’m guessing the heating and cooling inside that closed area creates moisture. That is h2o not oil? Rust, then grit, then no more uni over time
Makes me think of drilling a small hole to vent…or alternatively…push some grease/oil/lubricant into that closed section just to keep water out
It's definitely oil based mixed with rust I think, just hoping it's not pushing thru from the gearbox...didn't smell too feral.... there's some solid brown clumps further down the swing arm drive shaft tube on the sidewall that I'll need to clean off, i'm thinking a thin coat of grease on all internal surfaces to keep the moisture off the metal tubing could be worthwhile.
Also I read somewhere (can't recall where) that soaking the uni joint overnight in engine oil was a worthwhile thing to prolong it's life, has anyone done this or recommends it?
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Well I would check the pinion nut, they seem to have a habit of coming loose and ruining your day, pull the nut and apply red loctite, have seen many drives ruined due to this. DonG
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Well I would check the pinion nut, they seem to have a habit of coming loose and ruining your day, pull the nut and apply red loctite, have seen many drives ruined due to this. DonG
cool, will do, ta muchly
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Well I would check the pinion nut, they seem to have a habit of coming loose and ruining your day, pull the nut and apply red loctite, have seen many drives ruined due to this. DonG
If you pull the nut, can you be confident you have pre loaded it correctly upon re assembly ?
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Here's a couple of photo's of the uni...just for interests sake...
It has a shiny end (the gearbox end)
and a dark end, the bearing end.
during disassembly the uni kinda just fell out of the bearing.
(https://i.ibb.co/PjHp9bd/20210925-001440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PjHp9bd)
(https://i.ibb.co/5rVKN5y/20210925-001450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5rVKN5y)
Chuck, you mentioned these are a press fit together so I'm slightly concerned, the uni can just slot in and out of the bearing with relative ease.
As per the photo it looks like the uni has been spinning in the bearing independently of the bearing which would explain discolouration due to heat.
The bearing itself feels fine and the rest of the uni feels perfect i.e. zero play....
is this cause for concern?
Also the outer ends measure up slightly differently, the discoloured end is 29.98mm and the gearbox end is 30.28mm.
can i just turn it around and press it back in? or is that asking for trouble?
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If you pull the nut, can you be confident you have pre loaded it correctly upon re assembly ?
are you talking about this one? item N
(https://i.ibb.co/bXC5zPb/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXC5zPb)
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Here's a couple of photo's of the uni...just for interests sake...
It has a shiny end (the gearbox end)
and a dark end, the bearing end.
during disassembly the uni kinda just fell out of the bearing.
(https://i.ibb.co/PjHp9bd/20210925-001440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PjHp9bd)
(https://i.ibb.co/5rVKN5y/20210925-001450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5rVKN5y)
Chuck, you mentioned these are a press fit together so I'm slightly concerned, the uni can just slot in and out of the bearing with relative ease.
As per the photo it looks like the uni has been spinning in the bearing independently of the bearing which would explain discolouration due to heat.
The bearing itself feels fine and the rest of the uni feels perfect i.e. zero play....
is this cause for concern?
Also the outer ends measure up slightly differently, the discoloured end is 29.98mm and the gearbox end is 30.28mm.
can i just turn it around and press it back in? or is that asking for trouble?
So Oil based fluid…is coming forward from the rear drive…think of a slightly pressurized rear drive spinning furiously. When the uni backs out of the bearing like that then the rear drive oil is allowed forward
I’ll stop here for recommending solutions. My source is Dr Dave/Guzziology, and fussing w Convert universal joints myself. But you’re seeing the results of not being pressed in…lots of friction/heat going on in there
I think a factory workshop manual might have the specs on the interference fit. Your correct to measure, now measure inside the bearing.
Now that i think of it, i remember it’s a press fit on the tonti wristpins done by heating.
I’m wondering, and that’s dangerous..
Could one insert uni into bearing before installing in the swingarm? By using heat, like the wrist pin method to Press them together per spec then install to the swingarm..uhhhh that makes sense…maybe…never done it that way and I don’t have any to try
I’ll note the /2 bmw swingarms of that period ran the entire shaft and uni in gear oil
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So Oil based fluid…is coming forward from the rear drive…think of a slightly pressurized rear drive spinning furiously. When the uni backs out of the bearing like that then the rear drive oil is allowed forward
I’ll stop here for recommending solutions. My source is Dr Dave/Guzziology, and fussing w Convert universal joints myself. But you’re seeing the results of not being pressed in…lots of friction/heat going on in there
I think a factory workshop manual might have the specs on the interference fit. Your correct to measure, now measure inside the bearing.
Now that i think of it, i remember it’s a press fit on the tonti wristpins done by heating.
I’m wondering, and that’s dangerous..
Could one insert uni into bearing before installing in the swingarm? By using heat, like the wrist pin method to Press them together per spec then install to the swingarm..uhhhh that makes sense…maybe…never done it that way and I don’t have any to try
I’ll note the /2 bmw swingarms of that period ran the entire shaft and uni in gear oil
I was thinking the same re fitting uni to bearing first but there's a circlip holding the bearing in to the swingarm and I don't think there'd be a way to install that after the fact....
I'll ref Dr Dave bible for specs, cheers
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I think you can "peen" some dimples into the u-joint surface using a hammer and punch. This will increase the interference fit between the joint and the bearing .