KBB value took quite the nosedive...

[Adk.IBO]

09' Norge, holy crap. Almost like the first year. Glad I bought a leftover. $5200 trade in value!? $8 grand last year, unless Harley (2 different dealerships?) just really wanted my business. What made me look? The Ducati Scrambler. And the fact that there is a dealer close by that I did not know about. This North country seems so isolated sometimes :-\. Moto Guzzi's closest 6 hours one direction, and 6 hours the opposite direction. V7II or Scrambler. Ducati dealer under 2 hours. I want to downsize a bit. + and -'s to both. At $5200 trade in it might be smart to keep the Norge and add the smaller bike to the stable. That way I get to see which gets the most seat time. Decisions decisions ???....

Stay safe, John

[Kev m]

There's a lot to like about the new Duc Scrambler!

Hell, it could almost get me to buy a Duc for myself...

http://www.cycleworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Scramblerparts.jpg

[rboe]

Keep the Norge. The Scrambler ain't no touring bike (you could, but the Norge is so much better) and it would take some bucks to make it worth touring on (e.g. windscreen, bags, heated stuff, seat......). Darn bikes can be so specialized today, it's hard to find a good all arounder.

With the "value" of the Norge taking a hit, to me, it makes more sense to keep her and get some use out of her.

But it's a slippery slope and the next thing you have too many bikes to maintain and use.  :P

[Tobit]

Wonder how much water that exhaust system holds when parked in the rain?  Bet it's a fun bike but I'd rather find an old XR650R and keep two sets of wheels.  Street and dual purpose.



Keep the Norge unless you just don't gel with it.  Agree, the dealer situation is awful.

Tobit

[rocker59]

09' Norge, holy crap. Almost like the first year. Glad I bought a leftover. $5200 trade in value!? $8 grand last year, unless Harley (2 different dealerships?) just really wanted my business. 

If you didn't look at KBB last year, then you don't have any idea what it was.

When you're trading for a high margin vehicle like a Harley (or luxury car), they can move some of the money from the new vehicle over to the "trade value" of your trade-in.  You will never know what the ACV (actual cash value) is that the dealer places on your trade. 

Plus, KBB and NADA are notoriously inaccurate with Guzzi values.  Mainly because the market is so small for the bikes, they just don't have enough data to make good estimates of value.

Anyway, yes the Norge has a horrible resale value.  Most modern Guzzis do.  They're not bikes to flip, but bikes to keep and use. 

[Adk.IBO]

Ha, now that you mention it, it kinda does look like a rainwater collection device. That XR is just outa reach for me. 5'3" 130# 28" inseam. I can ride it, did motocross for 4 seasons, just don't want to as I approach my 6th decade. I think I saw $1200 for a Termi slip on for the Scrambler, angled more the way it should. I'd buy (already have one) a plug to slip in the exhaust to park in the rain before I'd spent $1200 for a slip on that would just annoy people. Trade offs with every bike. My wife isn't riding much anymore. She might be more comfy on a Cali 1400, a Gold Wing or a touring HD but that doesn't do anything for me downsizing and it may not change how much she rides. I like the idea of less tupperware, lighter weight, dirt road capable, probably a bit faster than my Norge (no needs there, just fun I guess). It sure is easy to want when the snow is on the ground and the temp hovers around zero.

Stay safe, John

Just for giggles I'll ask the HD dealer what he'll give me this year. They've been trying since before I got my Norge. I keep telling them I ought to have one HD before it's over ;).

[segesta]

I think I saw $1200 for a Termi slip on for the Scrambler, angled more the way it should.

Aside: the Scrambler "Full Throttle" version comes with Termignoni pipes standard. Which is cool.

[Adk.IBO]

Yeah, at a $1400 premium. And I can't get by the "faux" number plates on the seat and black. I had one black motorcycle, never again. The lower bars might work though.

[LongRanger]

This time of the year really provokes my moto fantasies. I've lusted after, and bought, most of my bikes in the winter, nostalgically hoping it would make summer arrive that much sooner. The Duc Scrambler is on my short list too, just like the CB1100 was last year. But by the time the new bikes arrive at the dealerships, I'm already out riding and rediscovering what I like about the bikes I already have.

[Lannis]

If you didn't look at KBB last year, then you don't have any idea what it was.

When you're trading for a high margin vehicle like a Harley (or luxury car), they can move some of the money from the new vehicle over to the "trade value" of your trade-in.  You will never know what the ACV (actual cash value) is that the dealer places on your trade. 

I guess people like to think they're getting a "real deal" using "trade-in" values.

There are ONLY two things to remember when buying and selling bikes.

1) The dealer BUYS bikes at wholesale.

2) The dealer SELLS bikes at retail.

So, no matter what you talk yourself into to justify the new bike, no matter what the book says, no matter how much of the "price" the dealer "moves" from the retail price to the "trade-in" offer he makes, he HAS to buy bikes (including your trade-in) at Wholesale, and HAS to sell them at retail (whatever that is in the market you're in at the moment).  Otherwise, he's not a dealer, he's a hobbyist and is making his living some other way than selling motorcycles.

IF the "trade-in" value offered is ABOVE the wholesale value of the bike, then the dealer will compensate by selling ABOVE the actual cash retail value of the bike.   

It's fine to "trade-in" a bike IF you hate selling them yourself.   It's worth it to some people.   But don't fool yourself.   When you "trade-in" a bike, you are paying the dealer $1000 or $2000 or so to sell your bike for you so you don't have to do it.   

And for a "spur-of-the-moment" impulse buy, the pleasure of riding in to the shop on one bike and riding out on a new one may be worth the premium .....  But it IS a premium.   

[rocker59]

It's fine to "trade-in" a bike IF you hate selling them yourself.   It's worth it to some people.   But don't fool yourself.   When you "trade-in" a bike, you are paying the dealer $1000 or $2000 or so to sell your bike for you so you don't have to do it.   

And for a "spur-of-the-moment" impulse buy, the pleasure of riding in to the shop on one bike and riding out on a new one may be worth the premium .....  But it IS a premium.   

 :+1

[Cheese]

Up here in the tax haven of NY, when you trade, your sale price is reduced by the trades value, and so is the tax. So if you sell the bike yourself for the same price as you are offered in trade, you loose some money. Not sure about the structure of the Guzzi "rebate" or how it's written though..

Peter

[Lannis]

Up here in the tax haven of NY, when you trade, your sale price is reduced by the trades value, and so is the tax. So if you sell the bike yourself for the same price as you are offered in trade, you loose some money. Not sure about the structure of the Guzzi "rebate" or how it's written though..

Peter

Playing tax games might be a way to save some money in those states.   Given that the difference between wholesale and retail might be thousands, however, it'd have to be an awful lot of tax ....  !

Lannis

[kirkemon]

There's a lot to like about the new Duc Scrambler!

Hell, it could almost get me to buy a Duc for myself...

 :+1 I agree and I've been spending a little time on the Ducati Scrambler Forum gathering more info on it.

[Travlr]

Just to play devils advocate, but I'm not sure $5200 was that crazy.

My buddy bought a new Multistrada 1200 Touring in 2010.  He paid $20K for it.
Last week he stopped by the Duc dealer to look at a new Diavel.  Another $20K bike.
They offered him $9K in trade.  45% of his original retail.

I'm not sure what you paid for the Norge.  But if you paid $14K an offer of around $6K would be
similar depreciation to his Duc. 

Plus you are trading on a $10K bike, not a $20K bike.
And my buddies Duc is a year newer.

Just saying, it wasn't that bad an offer.

M

[Lannis]

I'm not sure what you paid for the Norge.  But if you paid $14K an offer of around $6K would be
similar depreciation to his Duc. 

Just keep in mind that the Ducati didn't depreciate from $20K to $9K.   The $20K is a full retail figure.   The $9K is the wholesale figure minus the dealer's cost to sell it.   Apples to oranges in this case .....  ;-T

Lannis

[blackcat]

Playing tax games might be a way to save some money in those states.   Given that the difference between wholesale and retail might be thousands, however, it'd have to be an awful lot of tax ....  !

Lannis

Exactly. In this case the savings is about $495.00. Of course the question is, how much can the seller of the above Norge get on the open market and how quickly will that sale take place? And can he get more than $5,700 for the Norge?  

I have also considered the above on my Norge and decided that I like the bike and while it has its faults and the new Norge model (or insert whatever is the latest) is clearly better, I am just going to continue to ride mine.

[rocker59]

Just to play devils advocate, but I'm not sure $5200 was that crazy.

My buddy bought a new Multistrada 1200 Touring in 2010.  He paid $20K for it.
Last week he stopped by the Duc dealer to look at a new Diavel.  Another $20K bike.
They offered him $9K in trade.  45% of his original retail.

I'm not sure what you paid for the Norge.  But if you paid $14K an offer of around $6K would be
similar depreciation to his Duc. 

Plus you are trading on a $10K bike, not a $20K bike.
And my buddies Duc is a year newer.

Just saying, it wasn't that bad an offer.

M

50% +/- depreciation over five years is pretty normal...  For cars and motorcycles, and probably boats, RVs and everything except maybe Harleys and Jeeps.

[Tom]

The dealer makes money on the trade=in and money on the sale of a bike.  The use of KBB is a marketing tool for sales based on numbers.  NADA is based on reported sales by member dealers.  Either will give you skewed results based on their data.  You as an informed consumer do the best you can and bend over when buying new. 

A new vehicle doesn't have to leave a dealer to lose "value".  Zero miles on the bike and left sitting at a dealership.  Title gets changed into you name.  Booooom!  The bike is used before moving off the lot.  Keep the MSO and put some mileage on the bike.  It's still new with mileage.  Of course not feasible but you get the idea.

Don't forget the taxes that have to be paid.  Some states base their license fees on MSRP plus add in sales tax.  Big bucks. :-* :-* :-*

[AH Fan]

The dealer makes money on the trade=in and money on the sale of a bike.  The use of KBB is a marketing tool for sales based on numbers.  NADA is based on reported sales by member dealers.  Either will give you skewed results based on their data.  You as an informed consumer do the best you can and bend over when buying new. 

A new vehicle doesn't have to leave a dealer to lose "value".  Zero miles on the bike and left sitting at a dealership.  Title gets changed into you name.  Booooom!  The bike is used before moving off the lot.  Keep the MSO and put some mileage on the bike.  It's still new with mileage.  Of course not feasible but you get the idea.

Don't forget the taxes that have to be paid.  Some states base their license fees on MSRP plus add in sales tax.  Big bucks. :-* :-* :-*

Often wondered about that............. Had a peak at a brand new one year old stock BMW a while back.Shop gave me a price that was pretty close to a 2015 model and made it sound like it was a favor Hmmmm? Not sure who would take a run at that one when they will be taking a first season bath on depreciation on a 20K bike before they reach for the pen.

Takes all kinds ........ and I guess they gotta make a living.           ;D

[cruzziguzzi]

Nosedive?

Broker, realtor and managers tell me this is not the symptom of a "nose dive", merely a  correction. :wife:

Me? I'm quantitatively easing into the new realities.

Todd.