V7 III Special, first impressions after owning various V7 iterations

[jpv7]

It's way more than the spec sheet.    I do own and enjoy a few more powerful bikes (see list below) with better handling and brakes, etc, and have ridden some properly fast bikes such as the Motus, DucatiDiavel,BMW XR1000, BMW S1000R, Suzuki GSXS1000R.

The V7 is a competent street machine that has character, style and class.    It yields more smiles per mile than many more powerful machines.

I can have more fun on the V7 on public roads than I can on any of the 4-cylinder liter bikes on the list above.     On those machines, my reaction was, "Nothing good would come of it."

+1. After owning a number of +100 hp bikes, i have learned that it's more fun to go fast on a slow bike than to go slow on a fast bike.  After "fixing" the suspension on my V7ii, i can go fairly fast without scaring myself and keep up with the big bikes until it's time to climb a mountain.

[jas67]

Well said J. I've had 8 prvious MGs' and 12 Ducs and my stornello and  othe rbikes too numerous to mention yet for no reason I can show you on paper my stornello has become one of my top 3 favorite bikes. And Ican barely park it anywhere that someone doesn't come over and comment on what and excellent looking bike it is. Guess you got everytthing under control back there in PA. I miss those good riding roads

Good to hear form you, Warren.   Things are going OK here in PA.    We do have some nice riding roads, but, you've got a year-round riding season.   Winter went on forever this year.   We had some light snow as late as mid-April.   

Definitely get in touch whenever you're back in town.

[jas67]

Well I can't wait to ride it... Not to cast aspersions but Jay might also be a little jaded from the rest of his fleet.

I do think it is hard to compare a smallblock that is just starting break-in with one that has thousands or tens of thousands of miles more.

I remember when Jay and I compared his first smallblock (V7C) side-by-side with my then too new V7 Stone (MkI). The Stone felt more torquey at lower rpm, but tight and less free or willing to rev. Thousands of miles later I suspect that side-by-side might have sounded a little different.

Absolutely, it isn't a fair fight this early in the break-in.     That said, power isn't what this bike is all about.   As you said, I've got more powerful bikes in the fleet.    I may have been a bit negative in my review, but, I want to reiterate that I'm happy with the purchase of this beautiful bike.   I guess I expected a bigger difference in power, based on some reviews that I've read.    Looking at the torque curves from the motorcycle.com article:
www.motorcycle.com



I haven't yet really experienced the difference between these two motors.    So, I'll definitely update this thread as it gets broken in, and I explore the power band.

I'm curious on the transmission too just because since I added the RK with the 6-spd to the fleet (we already had the 6-spd Duc) I find myself looking for 6th more on the V7.

I wish they had made it less of a close ratio box than they did.    1st and 6th are roughly the same as 1st and 5th on the 5 speed.   It would be better if the ratios were a little more spread out.   I don't know if duplicating 1-5 and adding a 6th gear on top of that would've been too tall for the small block, but, maybe somewhere in between.    I think that the new small block could push a little higher top hear on the highway.

[bpreynolds]

That's funny.  I had not seen this graph but it does mirror what I was trying to say earlier in the thread.  Thanks for posting this.

[Kev m]

Iirc (and maybe that graph shows it in torque) the V7II was rated a tiny bit lower in power than the V7I, so maybe that's part of the perception problem too.... You
Iirc you haven't ridden the II right (though nor have I).

Also perception is a bitch and easily fooled. Remember how your V7C pulled on my barely broken-in Stone.... Then again I weigh a good bit more....

[egschade]

Thoroughly enjoying my Mk3 Stone after being on a Griso. The power is fine for the way I ride. The much lighter weight and more upright position is kinder on my back. Compared to the Griso, it feels more balanced at refined. I do miss the Griso's power and the higher performance level at times but truthfully, I rarely used it.

The V7 tranny is a revelation after being on big block bikes. My 1100's we real clunk fests and while the Griso was better, it feels crude in comparison to this bike. A little curious that both 5th and 6th are overdrive ratios and would have preferred a lower 1st and 2nd for riding in slow traffic or dirt roads.

Winter weather and work have conspired to keep my mileage down. I'm finally approaching first service though and am looking forward to exploring life beyond 4500 RPM which is where the fun is just starting with this engine. The OEM Pirelli bias tires stick well enough but the front feels hard and nervous. I'm upgrading radials and going to the 'optional' 110 width on the front which should provide the feel I prefer.

[jas67]

I put another 73 miles on the V7 III today.   I had a lot of fun.  What a great bike!
It’s near 500 miles now.   I was shifting at 5k on the more spirited parts of the ride.    It pulls nicely.

I put gas in it, 4 miles after the fuel light came on, took 3.97 gallons.    So, that’s a lot more reasonable than the 3.3 gallons that the V7R comes on, and 3.6 for the ’14 V7S.     I averaged 54.5 MPG today (if the MPG readout is to be trusted).   So, that works out to 218 miles ‘till the low fuel light, and another apprroxy 60 miles ‘till dry (assuming total of 5.1 gallons usable as I determined on the racer).   So, with 278 miles 'till dry, that’s a safe 250 miles of range.    The MPG readout is nice, as it’ll help adjust expected range as MPG varies with temperatures, aggressiveness of riding, wind, hills, etc.

[Socalrob]

I was pushing a bit today and ran out of gas at 63 miles past the fuel light coming on.  Luckily I was 150 ft from the gas station and it was easy just to paddle the bike up to a pump, looking like an everyday cruiser rider.  Tried to start the bike a time or two, I'd died right away, as I rolled or paddled along.

Only fit 5.3 gallons in, on the sidestand, to the metal neck part.

5.8 gal tank seems a bit of a stretch.

63 miles to empty.  Anybody else have a number for this?

I posted this a while back.  Lately I am seeing around 44 mpg, but it has long seemed to me we get gas here in CA that has been modified for emissions and does not give good mileage.

My low fuel light has been coming on around 165 miles.

[egschade]

I posted this a while back.  Lately I am seeing around 44 mpg, but it has long seemed to me we get gas here in CA that has been modified for emissions and does not give good mileage.

My low fuel light has been coming on around 165 miles.

Hope you're not getting E15 laced gas - that stuff will ruin your fuel system. I read that some stations are using it w/o posting it on their pumps (which is illegal). Were you using a brand name gas? I'm wary of off no-name brands and what's in them.

[blu guzz]

that's pretty bad.  if i am careful, the 1400 will manage about 42-44.  maybe it is different formulation as we don't have even 10% around here.

[twowheeladdict]

Thanks for the review.  I really want a V7 III but can't see myself parting with the Cafe Classic and not sure if I want to part with my Yamaha FZ07 for one. 

I compare the Cafe Classic to all the YouTube reviews of the new Miata.  A lot of fun at speeds that won't get you a ticket.  The furthest I have ridden the Cafe Classic from home is the 80 miles to Sloans to have the fuel tank recall performed.  Other than that I have never ventured further than about a 30 mile radius of home and just enjoy all the little curvy back roads where I live.

[bpreynolds]

I posted this a while back.  Lately I am seeing around 44 mpg, but it has long seemed to me we get gas here in CA that has been modified for emissions and does not give good mileage.

My low fuel light has been coming on around 165 miles.

I'm on Fuelly for nearly every tank fill and keep up with my mpg closely.  Oddly enough, the V9 returned significantly better mpg than either of my previous V7s and it had nothing to do seemingly with grip twisting, roads, weather, or whatever.   

[Kev m]

I put another 73 miles on the V7 III today.   I had a lot of fun.  What a great bike!
It’s near 500 miles now.   I was shifting at 5k on the more spirited parts of the ride.    It pulls nicely.

I put gas in it, 4 miles after the fuel light came on, took 3.97 gallons.    So, that’s a lot more reasonable than the 3.3 gallons that the V7R comes on, and 3.6 for the ’14 V7S.     I averaged 54.5 MPG today (if the MPG readout is to be trusted).   So, that works out to 218 miles ‘till the low fuel light, and another apprroxy 60 miles ‘till dry (assuming total of 5.1 gallons usable as I determined on the racer).   So, with 278 miles 'till dry, that’s a safe 250 miles of range.    The MPG readout is nice, as it’ll help adjust expected range as MPG varies with temperatures, aggressiveness of riding, wind, hills, etc.

This post sounds very familiar... Like a text I got yesterday...[emoji33]

[Numbercruncher]

I'll be picking up my first Guzzi in about a week.  A V7III Stone.  I have heard mixed reviews about the stock suspension but I am not above swapping out the standard rear shocks for better ones.  My 2016 Ducati Scrambler had the world's worst rear suspension and I went so far as to buy a shock out of England from Winding Road (Shock Factory out of France makes the actual unit).  The bike went from near unrideable to fantastic.  If only I could fix the forks . . .

So I know next to nothing about aftermarket shocks for Guzzi but at least want them to look as good as they'll ride on a V7III Stone with the blue fuel tank.  Yellow Ohlins on a yellow Scrambler?  Oh yeah!  But on a blue V7III Stone, nah-ah.  If you could post here or via PM what your shocks set you back I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

NC

I enjoyed your review jas67. I too own a V7 III special and every ride brings a smile to my face and, in the past, a grimace of pain shooting up my spine when the sub par suspension bits encountering a bump in the road.

After several test rides on a V7 III I decided I wanted one in my stable but would need to do something about it's less then mediocre suspension. Prior to delivery last September the dealer installed emulators in the forks. After consultation with Ted Porter at the BeemerShop about 8 weeks ago decided on custom built Wilber shocks for the rear with springs and valving to match my weight and riding style. I  installed them last week. The V7 Special, also a purdy blue one, now handles as I would expect any modern motorcycle, without electric suspension bits, to handle. No more wagging of the tail when pushed aggressively into the mildest of curves, and no more bone breaking jolts when riding over even the slightest if sharp bumps, it's a safer and far more comfortable motorcycle now.   

The only remaining issue I have is the lack of electrons making it impossible to run a Nav unit, heated grips, and a heated jacket liner without discharging the battery. Because of this limitation I use one of my other bike for touring.

I will offer that I'm pleasantly surprised by the comfortable ergonomics, especially the all day seat that makes easy work of 800 mile days. 

Paul

[Numbercruncher]

One thing I have not been able to find out about my soon to be delivered Stone is the output of the Alternator.  I can't believe it doesn't have enough output for a Nav unit and heated grips.  Those two alone should draw less than 8 amps which is only 72 watts.  I would assume standard lights and other electrical requirements would be somewhere around 100 watts so if the alternator is putting out 250 or more you should be good.

Anyone know the alternator's output?

NC

I enjoyed your review jas67. I too own a V7 III special and every ride brings a smile to my face and, in the past, a grimace of pain shooting up my spine when the sub par suspension bits encountering a bump in the road.

After several test rides on a V7 III I decided I wanted one in my stable but would need to do something about it's less then mediocre suspension. Prior to delivery last September the dealer installed emulators in the forks. After consultation with Ted Porter at the BeemerShop about 8 weeks ago decided on custom built Wilber shocks for the rear with springs and valving to match my weight and riding style. I  installed them last week. The V7 Special, also a purdy blue one, now handles as I would expect any modern motorcycle, without electric suspension bits, to handle. No more wagging of the tail when pushed aggressively into the mildest of curves, and no more bone breaking jolts when riding over even the slightest if sharp bumps, it's a safer and far more comfortable motorcycle now.   

The only remaining issue I have is the lack of electrons making it impossible to run a Nav unit, heated grips, and a heated jacket liner without discharging the battery. Because of this limitation I use one of my other bike for touring.

I will offer that I'm pleasantly surprised by the comfortable ergonomics, especially the all day seat that makes easy work of 800 mile days. 

Paul

[Warren Rhen]

Last summer when I had my Stornello back in PA for a few months I got ~52-53 MPG consistantly. Here in AZ I average 46-48 MPG same riding style. I figure it's probably the fuel blend

[F-22]

I thought they only made hemispheric heads for the V9, and even that seemed very odd to me - why not go for 4 valves already?

With a single spark plug, the Heron head can be quite effective - they usually have high intake speeds and a lot of squish, directing and mixing the fuel right under the spark plug. But the straight head does limit the valve diameter...

[egschade]

One thing I have not been able to find out about my soon to be delivered Stone is the output of the Alternator.  I can't believe it doesn't have enough output for a Nav unit and heated grips.  Those two alone should draw less than 8 amps which is only 72 watts.  I would assume standard lights and other electrical requirements would be somewhere around 100 watts so if the alternator is putting out 250 or more you should be good.

Anyone know the alternator's output?

NC

Kiwi Dave said in a different post that, "The stated alternator output capacity is 268 watts @ 12 volts, or just over 22 amps.  Measure the existing load through the 30 amp fuse (fuse F) with the alternator temporarily disconnected."

read it here: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=92940.0

[bpreynolds]

One thing I have not been able to find out about my soon to be delivered Stone is the output of the Alternator.  I can't believe it doesn't have enough output for a Nav unit and heated grips.  Those two alone should draw less than 8 amps which is only 72 watts.  I would assume standard lights and other electrical requirements would be somewhere around 100 watts so if the alternator is putting out 250 or more you should be good.

Anyone know the alternator's output?

NC

Install an Advmonster LED Native H4 headlight bulb and you’ll save yourself a little bit of draw for other things. 

[Kev m]

I thought they only made hemispheric heads for the V9, and even that seemed very odd to me - why not go for 4 valves already?

With a single spark plug, the Heron head can be quite effective - they usually have high intake speeds and a lot of squish, directing and mixing the fuel right under the spark plug. But the straight head does limit the valve diameter...

They did (only make the Hemi heads for the V9), until the V7III came out.

The herons have been a limiting factor in smallblock power for decades, the Hemi seems to be a logical and worthwhile improvement.

[jas67]

My 2014 V7 Special is now listed in the "Swap Meet": http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96092.msg1520652#msg1520652

[bpreynolds]

My 2014 V7 Special is now listed in the "Swap Meet": http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96092.msg1520652#msg1520652

Good lookin’ Special.

[F-22]

The herons have been a limiting factor in smallblock power for decades, the Hemi seems to be a logical and worthwhile improvement.

Yes, but I don't think it makes them any more ecological (and that might be why the stuck with the Heron heads for so long). They could tune the engine for more power with the hemi head if they used dual sparks (which I think they still do not), or simply go to four valves (which I believe they are planning with the V85).

[Kev m]

Yes, but I don't think it makes them any more ecological (and that might be why the stuck with the Heron heads for so long). They could tune the engine for more power with the hemi head if they used dual sparks (which I think they still do not), or simply go to four valves (which I believe they are planning with the V85).

Not sure what your point is here.

The new hemi heads seem to be making more power and same fuel economy with lower emissions.

So who cares about the Heron Head?

Now a 4V (I've been told the V85 is NOT a 4V despite everyone's expectations) might be nice on say the V85 or maybe a higher output Racer. But it wouldn't be my choice just like I wouldn't have chosen a 4V head Griso over a 2V head. I like simplicity.

[jas67]

I'm up to 680 miles now.   The MPG readout is a about 4% optimistic.
The second fill-up calculated to 52.4 MPG.   While, the MPG readout for the tank was 54.5.   I'm pretty sure it was a very accurate measurement, as I filled right to the metal thing down in the filler both times.

Stats for the fillup:
4.889 Gallons
256 miles

The fuel light came on and stayed on at 202 miles.  That works out to 3.85 gallons based on 52.4 MPG.

If the fuel tank and fuel pump inlet at the same as my 2013 V7R, then usable fuel to empty should be about 5.1 gallons, so, I cut it real close (had an MSR fuel bottle with me just in case).

So, that gives me about 1.2 gallons of reserve, or about 60 miles.

I can safely look at my current MPG readout for the tank and use that as the number of miles I can go after the low fuel light turns on.

Once nice thing that the V7 III has, which the older ones didn't is a readout of number of miles ridden since the fuel light came on.
My 2006 Breva 1100 had this.   I never understood why the V7 didn't.

I've gotten used to the transmission and clutch, and am really gelling with this bike now.   It is brilliant!
The engine seems to be breaking in nicely, it seems rev more willing now, even at just under 700 miles.    I've run it up 6,000 RPM a couple of times (yeah, I know, I'm supposed to wait until after 900 miles according to the book).   It pulls nicely from 5,000-6,000.

[Kev m]

I'm pretty sure it was a very accurate measurement, as I filled right to the metal thing down in the filler both times.

I dunno man. It's too easy for there to be air stuck in the corners on the tank one fill and not the other. I bet you didn't sit there and shake and lean the bike a couple of times to make sure all the air was purged.

And did I miss this the first time through:

http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/081717-2017-Moto-Guzzi-V7-III-Stone-hp-torque-dyno.jpg

Look at that chart again and think about what you first wrote about not feeling the differences. MOST of the differences occur above 5k rpm not at the point where you run around in gear all the time. And you said you were keeping revs down closer to 4k for break-in right?

So it wouldn't have made sense for you to really feel anything at that point. Yes?

[roadscum]

I'll be picking up my first Guzzi in about a week.  A V7III Stone.  I have heard mixed reviews about the stock suspension but I am not above swapping out the standard rear shocks for better ones.  My 2016 Ducati Scrambler had the world's worst rear suspension and I went so far as to buy a shock out of England from Winding Road (Shock Factory out of France makes the actual unit).  The bike went from near unrideable to fantastic.  If only I could fix the forks . . .

So I know next to nothing about aftermarket shocks for Guzzi but at least want them to look as good as they'll ride on a V7III Stone with the blue fuel tank.  Yellow Ohlins on a yellow Scrambler?  Oh yeah!  But on a blue V7III Stone, nah-ah.  If you could post here or via PM what your shocks set you back I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

NC

My V7 III rides on a pair of Wilbers shock absorbers type 630 TS Road Blue Line No.: 630-1239-00. They have custom springs and valving to suite my weightand riding style and  have a BLUE spring that that I think would look nice on your Stone. I believe the Stone and the Special ride on the same shock. Take a look here:
https://www.wilbers-shop.de/en/Motorcycle/Moto-Guzzi/V7-III-Special-wilbers-1/Shock-absorber-type-630-TS-Road.html?cur=3&manufacturer=dl91e05422dc5692c4ca327051a98bad&year=2017&catname=55c7c7b69353345d219ad337438532f2

I sourced them from Ted Porter nd his team at the BeemerShop. These guys are the best, I've used them in the past for suspensionupgrades on my BMW's, Guzzi 1200 Sport, Honda CB500X, etc... . Give them a call and see what they can do for you. http://www.beemershop.com/Ted_Porters_BeemerShop_Motorcycle_Suspension_Specialists_All_Brands_Sales_Service_Installation.html

Paul

[usedtobefast]

And did I miss this the first time through:

http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/081717-2017-Moto-Guzzi-V7-III-Stone-hp-torque-dyno.jpg

Look at that chart again and think about what you first wrote about not feeling the differences. MOST of the differences occur above 5k rpm not at the point where you run around in gear all the time. And you said you were keeping revs down closer to 4k for break-in right?

So it wouldn't have made sense for you to really feel anything at that point. Yes?

Before buying, I test rode a Stornello (V7ii) and a V7iii Stone.  I do not know how many miles were on each one, they were demo bikes, so probably pretty low.  I noticed on the V7 iii Racer I bought, it was big difference between how it ran at 3-100 miles vs. 800 miles.  My first two ride on my Racer I was a bit worried, but around the 100-150 mile it really started running better. 

On the initial test rides, from my butt dyno, the iii engine just felt more zippy and livelier.  Maybe it has less flywheel and/or other rotational mass?  For me, on the iii demo, twist throttle, wheeee!, on the ii no wheee.      But who knows, maybe the Stornello had 75 miles on it and the Stone had 500 miles? 

To me the iii felt like a much improved package ... clutch, shifting, power, all felt better to me on the iii.  The iii also felt more refined, but I understand if you are after chug & shake the ii might be better for that.  And I went there thinking I was going to buy a Stornello ... so I was predisposed to loving/wanting the ii, so I thought my test ride was going to be a rejection of the iii improvements and going with the ii.  But not so, for me. 

Also, I believe the stock fueling on the iii is way better than the stock fueling on the ii.  So another good comparison would be a beetle map loaded in a ii vs. a stock iii.   In my opinion, a stock iii doesn't need an improved map unless you modify the exhaust.

So I'd suggest getting as many rides in as possible on various v7's.  If dealer demos, make a note of how many miles are on it.

[roadscum]

One thing I have not been able to find out about my soon to be delivered Stone is the output of the Alternator.  I can't believe it doesn't have enough output for a Nav unit and heated grips.  Those two alone should draw less than 8 amps which is only 72 watts.  I would assume standard lights and other electrical requirements would be somewhere around 100 watts so if the alternator is putting out 250 or more you should be good.

Anyone know the alternator's output?

NC

Running heated grips(R&G) and nav. unit(Garmin 6XX/BMW Nav. V) hasn't been an issue on my V7 III Special. It's when I add the heated jacket liner that I quickly run out of electrons.   The owners manual list alternator output at meager 268 watts. 

I think the only fair way to compare engine performance of the VIII vs the VII is if both bikes have about the same number of miles on them. My III has 6K+ miles on it and seems to fell a little more zippy each ride. I'm thinking the motor has not yet fully broken in. I hesitate to say this because, in general, I have little faith in butt dyno reviews..... 

I agree with the others who commented on better fueling on the III, significntly better I thought. Before making the purchase I thought perhap a tune would be needed to make me happy but after a good test ride I knew no tune would  be required.


Paul

[jas67]

I dunno man. It's too easy for there to be air stuck in the corners on the tank one fill and not the other. I bet you didn't sit there and shake and lean the bike a couple of times to make sure all the air was purged.

And did I miss this the first time through:

http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/081717-2017-Moto-Guzzi-V7-III-Stone-hp-torque-dyno.jpg

Look at that chart again and think about what you first wrote about not feeling the differences. MOST of the differences occur above 5k rpm not at the point where you run around in gear all the time. And you said you were keeping revs down closer to 4k for break-in right?

So it wouldn't have made sense for you to really feel anything at that point. Yes?

In both cases, I did stand the bike up vertically to to see the level and then back on the side stand (no center stand yet).

Yes, I had been keeping it below 4k at that point.   Then I looked at the manual and saw it's actually 4,500 that they recommend.   Now that I'm past 600, I'm going as high as 5,500, and on yesterday's ride went to 6,000 a couple of times.

I'd need to ride them back to back again to be sure, but, yes, I think it feels stronger between 5k and 6k.