Riding Hairpins

[tris]

I live in Lincolnshire where hills are rare and hairpin bends nonexistent.

BUT in May I'm off on a mission to Wales where they have both in abundance......espe cially on the route I have planned.

Any recommendations from the great and good on this forum to avoid my being out in the back of beyond lying under the bike having dropped it on a tricky corner 

[Markcarovilli]

Go slow.....

And have fun

Mark

[mtiberio]

2 things...

1) more people crash because they THINK they are going too fast.

2) if you think you can or if you think you can't, you're right.

[Gliderjohn]

Start slow. True hairpins are a different animal even than sharp, tight turns. After a few miles you will feel much more confident. Maybe try to find and watch some videos of folk on hairpins. It is fun!
GliderJohn

[Rough Edge racing]

  There are only two types of curves, clear sight and blind curves  ...In the case of hairpins where you can see it in advance, that's one thing. With a blind hairpin ,one hidden by trees or terrain, that can be more difficult and any number of surprises may greet you  requiring avoidance maneuvers

[Scud]

In addition to the visibility issues, hairpins usually involve slopes and elevation changes. For example if you are going uphill approaching a left-hand hairpin, the pavement could be sloping to your right, then it could change quickly to sloping to your left as you round the corner. Off camber hairpins (where the road slopes away from the direction of turn) take more effort. Whereas a banked turn is great fun - the road slope actually helps you turn.

I try to carry a constant speed through the hairpin - braking before, and accelerating after. For uphills, I like to keep a constant light throttle in fairly high RPMs. For downhills, I like to apply light front brake pressure through the curve, so if I need more brake, it doesn't come on suddenly and upset the bike.

Turning your head and looking where you want to go is great advice. Maybe you could find an empty parking lot or someplace to practice doing tight U-turns - that uses the same head-turning technique. If you can do increasingly tighter U-turns, you'll find some similarities to he hairpins.

Enjoy it. Go slow at first, and don't out-ride your vision.

[Bill Hagan]

What the others have said.

Hairpins are, IMO, a vacuum.   

I have never understood why so many folks want to ride the big passes, e.g., Stelvio, Spluga, and others of fame.

I love curves, but riding straight up or down to come every 1/2 K to a near 180 is way less fun than big sweepers and rock & roll "normal" back-road turns. Rite of passage, I suppose.

That who-cares opinion out of the way, to negotiate the worst of those uphill challenge, recommend you consider using trail braking and move off the saddle to the appropriate side.

My biggest concern going up or down, especially in the blind ones that RER mentions, and which are the rule at lower elevations, was less my own competence -- an omnipresent sphincter-tightener  -- but worry about others coming over the line.  On the bright side of that, most such tight corners have pretty generous pavement, so I use every bit of those to give the crazies a wide berth.

Enjoy the new challenges; post some pix.  Have always wanted to see Wales.

Bill

[Murray]

Although wales has a little variable road surfaces look where you want to go, on a guzzi the gear change is so slow is better not to, carry speed and let the motor die off in second it what and then grind out.

[tazio]

Take up mountainbiking. I've learned some valuable skill sets that cross over to motorcycling..

[Daniel Kalal]

...way less fun than big sweepers...

I'm with you, Bill.  There are more fun ways to get around a corner.

Stelvio Pass is an example of true multiple zero-radius hairpin turns.  On RH turns, if you were to turn your bars full-lock to the right and just idle around the turn, you will end up in the opposing lane when you're done.  Don't do that.  Yes; if you were to increase your speed and add a bit of lean, you'd be able to turn sharper (but, if you were that person you wouldn't be asking the question).  But, the general technique is to crank your head around and check for traffic coming, and then (if clear) swing out into the opposing lane and smoothly circle around the turn, ending up fully in your own lane.  If you ever end up completing the turn in the wrong lane, you've done it wrong.  Going down, you'll be riding the rear brake; going up, you'll be fanning the clutch.

It's not uncommon to see BMW GS riders with their feet dabbing the ground as they get turned around.  If they lean the bike over in the turn, they can do it easily enough, but when full upright, there's just not enough turning radius for the beast.  It might be embarrassing for them, but that's better than dropping a heavy GS in the turn to the cheers of those up top watching.

Frankly, I find Stelvio Pass about like doing figure-eights in my garage.  The view is spectacular, which is why we love it.

[Wayne Orwig]

After 1000's of miles in the Alps for years the one thing that I would recommend is to look thru the turn to where you want to go. (that will require you to turn your head a bit more than you are probably used to.)

To truly enjoy the hair pin turn this a must do.

:-)

^^^^^^^^^THIS

Rule #1. TURN your head. LOOK through the turn. LOOK well ahead.
Rule #2. See rule #1.
 

[Tobit]

As mentioned in a post above, watch for elevation changes in the turn and consider your cornering clearance.  You may not be leaning much, but when the road rises to meet you mid-turn, you must compensate.  Nothing wrong with dabbing a foot down but don't stop and lose momentum.

I don't know if you'll encounter anything this severe but it's an example of the turn I described above. 



Have fun!

Tobit

[kirby1923]

I'm with you, Bill.  There are more fun ways to get around a corner.

Stelvio Pass is an example of true multiple zero-radius hairpin turns.  On RH turns, if you were to turn your bars full-lock to the right and just idle around the turn, you will end up in the opposing lane when you're done.  Don't do that.  Yes; if you were to increase your speed and add a bit of lean, you'd be able to turn sharper (but, if you were that person you wouldn't be asking the question).  But, the general technique is to crank your head around and check for traffic coming, and then (if clear) swing out into the opposing lane and smoothly circle around the turn, ending up fully in your own lane.  If you ever end up completing the turn in the wrong lane, you've done it wrong.  Going down, you'll be riding the rear brake; going up, you'll be fanning the clutch.

It's not uncommon to see BMW GS riders with their feet dabbing the ground as they get turned around.  If they lean the bike over in the turn, they can do it easily enough, but when full upright, there's just not enough turning radius for the beast.  It might be embarrassing for them, but that's better than dropping a heavy GS in the turn to the cheers of those up top watching.

Frankly, I find Stelvio Pass about like doing figure-eights in my garage.  The view is spectacular, which is why we love it.

Stelvio is fun but the one thing that you really have to watch for is tour busses, that rear grows longer as he turns. Ha!

[ken farr]

Just my observation, based on nothing and worth the same:

  In my neighborhood we have a lot oc canyon roads, and mentally challenged individuals who treat them as if they were clean and clear closed circuits.

  I enjoy long sweepers and challenging canyon roads, but I keep in mind that I cannot see around the corner for road debris, traffic or livestock.

  When a few of us get together, very good seasoned professional riders to weekend warriors, I always say " ride for yourself, not for anyone else- first one there buys                                                                                                                                                                                           
  lunch."

  Enjoy, your gonna have fun.

kjf   

[Xlratr]

When I rode the Stelvio Pass a good few years ago (on my Quota, the Stelvio came later), I remember encountering a guy trying to pick up his fully laden Triumph Tiger. He was going very slowly through the hair pin and tried to put his foot down. The ground wasn't there!!!.  :-O


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[Cross-tie Walker]

Wales and hairpins?  Be sure to keep to the LEFT

[Daniel Kalal]

watch for is tour busses, that rear grows longer as he turns. Ha!

Recently, I saw one of these short wheelbase busses with a long overhang in the back scrape the full length of a rather expensive parked Land Rover while making a sharp turn in a parking lot.  The owner of the Land Rover was irate...

[LowRyter]

Keep your head up and look ahead as far up the road as you can.

Keep the gears low and the revs up,

and the bike will follow where you see.

Once you get the feel for it, get a rhythm and gain confidence. 

[Adk.IBO]

Ride your own ride, don't try to keep up with someone that has more skills if you're not ready.

[groundhog105]

Keep your head up and look ahead as far up the road as you can.

Keep the gears low and the revs up,

and the bike will follow where you see.

Once you get the feel for it, get a rhythm and gain confidence.

I just spent 2 1/2 months in the European alps this last summer and concur with the above advise.  I would add to this that you use your rear brake slightly to tighten up your line in the real sharp 180 degree turns.  You will have great fun. 

[RANDM]

You guys have this covered, though I'm surprised no-one
Has mentioned throttle control, so I will in case in case it's
a bad habit I've picked up that you guys can correct.

The R1150R is pretty chubby at 557lb and with snatchy low
end fuelling I used to fan the clutch, but with that fixed I
approach the turn on a trailing throttle, go to a neutral
throttle as I initiate the turn, a gnats dick  of pos. throttle
at the apex and then smoothly add more as I exit. I tend to
have just a touch of rear brake going through too.

For me this keeps the bike stable, and if I'm doing it right
remembering to also have my weight centered and be able
to do the " Flappy Duck" mid turn it's smooth and very
pleasing to do.

Maurie.

[canuck750]

One of my favorite roads is in Arizona, Coronado Trail from the copper mining town of Morencia north to Alpine. Plenty of twisty curves with a few hairpins to make it fun but not too tiring and almost no traffic. A KLR 650 with wide handlebars works just fine for that road, a heavier or larger bike just isn't as much fun, I road it on my BMW R1150RT once but have had way more fun on the KLR.

The Chief Joseph Scenic Highway in Wyoming is probably #2.

[malik]

Go into the corners wide, and turn late - but not over the centre line (if they have one) - that gives you maximum view of anything coming the other way and of the road surface - don't cut the corners (you are on a Breva, not a Cali) - keep looking as far up the road as you can - remember your counter steering -and practice smooth.

You may be slow at first, but as you build confidence, you'll be faster. If you try keeping it smooth, you'll get the hang of it & flow around those corners more. Take it easy & you'll enjoy it. Tight, winding roads are the best fun. And you are on a Guzzi - it's built for it.

Mal

[rodekyll]

My biggie is the hairpin with the decreasing radius (hope I described that correctly) where you get your line set and the curve gets tighter as is goes through the apex.  That and the reversed camber.  These are amplified when there is bad or no pavement. 

Out of your control to an extent is the blind hairpin with the oncoming logging truck in your lane.  You can't plan for it.  You need to always anticipate it.  Got one of those with the trike on the Natchez Trace on a road where there was supposed to be no commercial traffic.  Uphill hairpin to the left with no shoulder and a cliff on the right.  18  wheeler hauling ass the other way, completely in my lane.  I was spilling the right rear wheel over the edge trying to avoid the truck.  I had a very clear view of his rearmost wheel looking like it would bisect the trike.  I could see the "Oh Shit!" expression on the driver's face as he hauled the wheel hard over.  I still don't know how I wasn't either wearing his doublewide tire or balled up at the bottom of the cliff.  I had to stop and get off for a moment to recollect myself.

[nobleswood]

Wales ain't too different to Lincolnshire: Watch out for the sheep !

The rest is following the advice from everyone else here, start slowly and build your confidence.

[LowRyter]

read this and you'll be ready for Cedar Vale Ks.   

 

[Lannis]

Shoulderless hairpin turns and cliffs on the Natchez Trace?

Learn something new every day here!

[Scud]

Watch for snow and ice at higher elevations... and dramatic changes of light and shadow... with lots of sharp turns, you need to know when the sun is about to be in your eyes.

[rodekyll]

Yessir!  Once you're off the actual parkway, the Natchez Trace region is a literal rabbit warren of bad roads and twisties.  I did almost 200 miles in the hollows and gullies and only made about 60 miles good.  I don't think I covered the same real estate twice, but I might have.  I got into some little tangled backroads there that all seemed to reference churches, if they referenced anything.  And if you followed one long enough, there'd be a church, too.  And some other road.  Little roads leading to littler ones.  The only way to tell if you were ascending or descending into it was the type of road -- shoulders and foglines/guardrails give way to centerline only, then no markings, then less than 2 lanes wide, etc.  Maintenance optional.  Somewhere in all that the road signs go away.  And the only way to tell if you were coming or going is the sun, when you can see it.  I found my way out by trending west and choosing the more developed road at every choice.  Popped out on the main highway about two exits down from where I'd left it.   

Some of these roads are in the park and some aren't.  Once you launch on it you're taking all the roads not taken, anyplace, ever, and you lose any sense of boundaries and direction pretty quickly in the alternation of small farms and thickets and trees.  I don't know if I had left the park when I met the truck or not.  There had been park service signs and a sign about no commercial traffic over 10,000gvw several miles before the encounter.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.   

[LowRyter]

someone told me the Nachez Trace had the same speed limits as the Blue Ridge without the curves or beauty.