Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on November 26, 2019, 10:59:54 AM
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Just got it in the mail... Road & Track in their Dec. 2019 compared all the greatest cars in the world on the track and on the road, from McClaren Porsche, Corvette, Lambo, and others. All the testers voted the $30,000 Hyundai Veloster N "The 2020 Performance Car of The year"! A SHOCKER! $30,000 buys you the best performing car!?!
Anyone else read this?
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https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29685009/2020-hyundai-veloster-n-video-review-track-matt-farah/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-comparison-tests/a29640493/2020-performance-car-of-the-year/
*Outright speed and testing numbers are part of the package, but they don’t determine the winner. Beyond sheer pace, a car has to bring emotion to the table.
*The car must embrace track duty while still being enjoyable on the road.
*Technology has to be used in service of the driver, not just added speed. Feedback and sensation via complexity is great, but complexity alone doesn’t cut it.
*Lastly, we ask ourselves, would any other manufacturer build it? Does the car feel uniquely of its story and brand, with a personality all its own?
Meh it's just an opinion that they think it is more well rounded even if it doesn't match many of its competitors in certain performance metrics.
That's basically like saying The Guzzi Smallblock is the performance bike of the year....
Mostly it sounds like a magazine trying to remain relevant.
It had the second slowest 0-60, second slowest lap time (both times only the Miata was slower in the odd field they chose to test).
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Just got it in the mail... Road & Track in their Dec. 2019 compared all the greatest cars in the world on the track and on the road, from McClaren Porsche, Corvette, Lambo, and others. All the testers voted the $30,000 Hyundai Veloster N "The 2020 Performance Car of The year"! A SHOCKER! $30,000 buys you the best performing car!?!
Anyone else read this?
Yep Hyundai / Kia make some very good vehicles. I have a 2011 Kia Soul that gets the crap run out of it as a grocery getter and it has never had an issue.
I hate to admit it but my BMW M550 gets a very good run for its money by the new Genesis line, maybe not up to the same level of fit and finish as the BMW but getting better every year.
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The former head of BMW performance for the past 30 years now works for Hyundai
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The former head of BMW performance for the past 30 years now works for Hyundai
Wow, the Koreans are going very hard at developing a world class line of vehicles.
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My brother just bought a Hyundai Palisade after previously owning a BMW and a Lexus. For the options he wanted the BMW or Lexus was in the $80,000 range where the Hyundai was about 1/2. He also is hands off on service so he relies on the dealership. With the former the service costs were high whereas the Hyundai was a lot more reasonable. It a really nice vehicle.
Hyundai has done well for themselves.
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This one happens to be about cars.
Magazines about other subjects will have End-Of-The-World fonts and colors on their cover from now to the end of the year:
"The World's Most Beautiful Women of 2019!"
"The Greatest Athletes of 2019!"
"Greatest Golf Comebacks of 2019!"
All will be a combination of measurable things (women's proportions, number of goals made, number of shots to come from behind to win) and extremely subjective things, which can't even be listed, much less measured.
I would put 0 importance to any of this in real world terms, but it's all in good fun like "Greatest Bond Villains" or "Most Beautiful Disney Princesses". I'll take on anyone arguing my preferences for either of those ....
Lannis
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Over on the Corvette Forum, the members are having an absolute conniption fit over it. Most are convinced the new mid engine Corvette will be the best vehicle ever made despite that no one has driven one, not yet in production and few folks have seen one in person. The fact that a rational peppy car that costs half as much and gets double the mileage wins this silly comparison just makes their heads explode. And then they go nuts when you mention that a Hyundai is "driver's car" because it has a stick shift whereas the new 'vette is only available as an automatic.
I got the magazine in the mail and it's just awful. The entire issue is dedicated to this subject, nothing else. It's a complete joke so far as anything enjoyable or any variety. I've never seen a single story or article morph into the entire monthly magazine. I wonder how many more issues I'll get before it finally runs out?
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In what is probably the most competitive automobile market ever , Hyundai has become a major player . Gotta give them credit for what they have managed to do .
Dusty
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Good for Hyundai! I tried to test drive a Veloster a couple of years ago and did not fit. It did not have enough head room. :sad:
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I looked up a bunch o' motorcycle mag riding reports on my Monster. They were all, without exception a$$kissing infomercials about how effing great the bike is. Guess the bike rags have to say nice things about the bikes that the manufacturers give them to play with or they won't get any more. Bet it's the same with car mags...
Larry
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Performance Car of The Year is front wheel drive?
This says more about Road and Track magazine than the Hyundai.
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Performance Car of The Year is front wheel drive?
This says more about Road and Track magazine than the Hyundai.
The Mini Cooper S was front wheel drive , and it shamed many a car with 3 times its power .
Dusty
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The Mini Cooper S was front wheel drive , and it shamed many a car with 3 times its power .
Dusty
Look at the link to the article, the result is completely subjective. The Veloster didn't shame anything but the Miata.
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Look at the link to the article, the result is completely subjective. The Veloster didn't shame anything but the Miata.
So ?
Dusty
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So ?
Dusty
I was pointing out that UNLIKE the mini (in it's time) the Veloster has not managed to shame anything and seems unlikely it will. That's all.
Which makes the article title pretty dumb.
You should have seen it from my first analogy. I LOVE THE smallblock, it's the second coming (of the airheads), TO ME.
I'm not dumb enough to claim it's the best performance bike of the year...
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I was pointing out that UNLIKE the mini (in it's time) the Veloster has not managed to shame anything and seems unlikely it will. That's all.
Which makes the article title pretty dumb.
You should have seen it from my first analogy. I LOVE THE smallblock, it's the second coming (of the airheads), TO ME.
I'm not dumb enough to claim it's the best performance bike of the year...
Actually, they said they had no trouble keeping up with the Mclaren over a mountain road with it. A Hyundai....chasing a supercar....
Having fun is more important than a spec sheet. All of the testers agreed the car drove great, had the least shortcomings and was rewarding to drive fast. 275hp may not sound like much compared to a 600hp supercar but the Hyundai only weighs two fat Americans more than a Miata.
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Best bang for the buck seems to be the metric.
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The good old “Car Of The Year Award” here are a few forgettable ones:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15147668/dishonorable-mention-the-10-most-embarrassing-award-winners-in-automotive-history/
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Actually, they said they had no trouble keeping up with the Mclaren over a mountain road with it. A Hyundai....chasing a supercar....
Having fun is more important than a spec sheet. All of the testers agreed the car drove great, had the least shortcomings and was rewarding to drive fast. 275hp may not sound like much compared to a 600hp supercar but the Hyundai only weighs two fat Americans more than a Miata.
Again, I LIVE the difference every day. I would potentially agree with their verdict if they simply phrased it differently.
It kept up with a McLaren on a public road like a Harley keeps up with a Ducati (the argument I always make and you guys dismiss). But I wouldn't ever say that Harley was the "best performance bike" that year.
That's my objection... The crappy semantics... The ingenuous title and theme...
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The good old “Car Of The Year Award” here are a few forgettable ones:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15147668/dishonorable-mention-the-10-most-embarrassing-award-winners-in-automotive-history/
That's hilarious. At least they're admitting it!
The VEGA? Car of the Year?
Who knows what folks will be saying about this years' winners in 40 years .... ?
Lannis
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Very entertaining. Reminds me of Persig: "And what is good, Phradus, need we someone to tell us these things?"
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Saying the Hyundai kept up with the McLaren at legal road speed on a mountain road is irrelevant, probably most anything made today with four wheels could do that. My old V6 Ford Ranger will keep up with my M550 on any road, the difference is the Ranger will be running at its handling, speed and braking limit while the BMW will be barley working. I will likely never 'need' the performance of the BMW on a legal road but if car manufacturer's only made what we 'needed' we would all be driving small displacement normally asperated four cylinder compacts.
And for my 2 cents a 275 hp subcompact is nothing to sneer at, 5.5 seconds zero to sixty, MSRP under $30K, those are better performance numbers than a 68 Shelby GT 500KR ( 335 hp and 6 seconds to 60)
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Pretty meaningless article. I don't know how you can have any kind of "Performance car of the year" award when you can't get all of the manufacturers to participate.
Kind of lame. It did get me to check Hyundais web sight though.
To bad they didn't include the kia stinger.
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Pretty meaningless article. I don't know how you can have any kind of "Performance car of the year" award when you can't get all of the manufacturers to participate.
Kind of lame. It did get me to check Hyundais web sight though.
To bad they didn't include the kia stinger.
If you tried to get ALL the cars together at the same time, it would never happen.
I'm not complaining, I'm celebrating!!! Technology has made it to the point where you can get a GREAT performance car for for the track and the road for around $30,000. That to me is a reason to celebrate! I can understand why the millionaires and billionaires car enthusiasts are upset. I'll bet all the other car forums tonight are lighting up with rage.
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Pretty meaningless article. I don't know how you can have any kind of "Performance car of the year" award when you can't get all of the manufacturers to participate.
Kind of lame. It did get me to check Hyundais web sight though.
To bad they didn't include the kia stinger.
The manufacturers did participate. They all sent “minders” along with the cars. There was a funny sidebar about Nissan sending a guy with a set of tires for the GT-R. By the way, the Stinger is a wonderful car. The only thing it’s missing is a great exhaust note.
They were well beyond legal speeds on public roads when they stated the Hyundai would keep up with the McLaren. It’s like the guys throwing shade didn’t read the article. No, your Ford Ranger isn’t going to stay in even the same zip code as a McLaren when they’re both driven hard.
The article stated up front that it wasn’t entirely track based and real world driving was weighted equally. I have no doubt that using this metric a Scat Pack Charger would come out on top over a Hellcat equipped Charger. Anyone who has driven both would understand that. Just like anyone who has driven a Viper would understand that as soon as you include the words “real world” and daily driving it loses to cars that have much lesser numbers because they do things like..I dunno...allow you to stay dry when driven in the rain or go more that 17 miles on a tank of gas.
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I should go try one. A decent front driver can be a hoot.
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Wait John, did you read the article?
Where does it say they were well beyond legal limits on the road?
As a matter of fact they specifically noted in a few places that track and road paces were different for example:
"The McLaren, for all its supercar glory, could be simultaneously dull and exhausting at a public pace."
The article was way more about their field trip and how the article was written than it actually was about the cars in question. And as noted the "winner" was far off pace on the track which means the only way it was going to chase down the McLaren on the road was:
A. Worse driver in McLaren and/or
B. Far below mechanical limitations that proved the McLaren more capable on the track.
Thing is I should be jumping for joy about this article since it validates everything I tend to say about Harleys and Guzzis vs superbikes/sportbikes on the street.
I just recognize the sensationalistic disingenuousness of the article itself.
Now if it was billed not as "performance car off the year" but more like everyday hero's car, realistic fun performance car on the street or the like I'd be less critical.
I also wish Subaru had freed up one friggin STI that week lol.
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I just wish they made a pickup truck👍
I got curious about these cars and took a look see on the web. It appears a person who wants a top rated sports car that has been ordained rated right along with the best, can buy one a couple years old and low mileage for 15k and that’s with 8 years warranty left. Like I said at first, sure wished they made a truck:)
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I just wish they made a pickup truck👍
They've teased one for almost a decade but the Chicken Tax makes importing a competitively priced small truck impossible.
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They've teased one for almost a decade but the Chicken Tax makes importing a competitively priced small truck impossible.
What’s a chicken tax?
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What’s a chicken tax?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
In short, it is the reason Toyota and Nissan build their "imported" trucks in US plants.
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I thought this was a motorcycle site.
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"Its not the crate, its the guy in the crate" Chuck Yeager
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https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29685009/2020-hyundai-veloster-n-video-review-track-matt-farah/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-comparison-tests/a29640493/2020-performance-car-of-the-year/
Meh it's just an opinion that they think it is more well rounded even if it doesn't match many of its competitors in certain performance metrics.
That's basically like saying The Guzzi Smallblock is the performance bike of the year....
Mostly it sounds like a magazine trying to remain relevant.
It had the second slowest 0-60, second slowest lap time (both times only the Miata was slower in the odd field they chose to test).
Very few to none of us drive a car on the road using performmance you use on a track..Most of the time is just driving at a reasonable speed...How the car feels in this situation is far more important than bragging right to track perfromance..
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Very few to none of us drive a car on the road using performmance you use on a track..Most of the time is just driving at a reasonable speed...How the car feels in this situation is far more important than bragging right to track perfromance..
You're preaching to the choir. My point - well, basically that it's a dumb article. Stupid to compare a McLaren to a Hyundai or Miata just like it would be dumb to compare a Panigale to a Guzzi Smallblock.
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Performance Car of The Year is front wheel drive?
This says more about Road and Track magazine than the Hyundai.
I have to disagree about FWD. I think it's great for lightweight cars, like hot hatches. Try a Mini Turbo, GTI, Focus ST, Kia/Hyundai Turbo, Civic SI/T-R. And I think my Accord stick shift drives great and sporty- I like it better than the slushbox 3 series I tested.
They handle great, you can throw them into curves. I have a 'vette and have to turn down the traction control to even feel the 430 lb ft of torque kick the back end, much less power slide it. I think on a mountain road, agile FWD with a little understeer is great. My son's ST is quicker around town than my 'vette due to its size and agility.
And should a performance car have a stick? Only the Mazda and Hyundai in the test had manual transmissions available.
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Look at the link to the article, the result is completely subjective. The Veloster didn't shame anything but the Miata.
factor in cost, gas mileage, maintenance costs, miles cars are actually driven, emissions. There are many "performance" parameters that Veloster wins. It's also one of the few "drivers cars" with a stick shift. Subjective, yes but tangibly better in several categories.
I think most important is miles actually driven. I don't see a lot of performance for $200k car, driven 2k miles per years and needing a new set of tires. I think it's got to be driven to perform. If it's not driven, it's largely a white elephant.
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Real hot rods have clutches .
Dusty
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You're preaching to the choir. My point - well, basically that it's a dumb article. Stupid to compare a McLaren to a Hyundai or Miata just like it would be dumb to compare a Panigale to a Guzzi Smallblock.
You're in a related business. Do you think that the main, career-enhancing, money-making motivation of the writers of the article was:
1) Making sure that the tests are as absolutely objective and fact-based as possible?
2) Maintaining standards of journalistic integrity regardless of the cost or results?
3) Making sure that the magazines largest advertisers are happy with the results?
4) Selling the greatest number of magazines and maximizing profits?
Choose more than one! I think I know the answers, but ....
Lannis
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Real hot rods have clutches .
Dusty
Every car I have owned since I got my license in 1964 has had a third pedal...Although only a few were hot rods... :grin:
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factor in cost, gas mileage, maintenance costs, miles cars are actually driven, emissions. There are many "performance" parameters that Veloster wins. It's also one of the few "drivers cars" with a stick shift. Subjective, yes but tangibly better in several categories.
I think most important is miles actually driven. I don't see a lot of performance for $200k car, driven 2k miles per years and needing a new set of tires. I think it's got to be driven to perform. If it's not driven, it's largely a white elephant.
Again, you're preaching to the choir here and every one of you Mofo's better STFU about the Moco after making my arguments for me. :kiss: :evil:
THESE are similar reasons why I ride Harleys and Guzzis (especially the smallblocks these days), and I GET IT I really do, I just don't claim that they ARE "performance bikes of the year" when I choose them.
Lannis I think we all know the answer there... and I don't necessarily disagree with the reasoning why they PREFERRED the Hyundai for the real world, but then again that's NOT what most of those other cars were about in the first place.
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It’s nice to see more manufacturers continuing to up their game and offering stylish cars with nice driving dynamics that are also reliable and inexpensive. Companies without inbred arrogance tend to get my business as well as my respect. Life is too short to spend money on fading overplayed image over lively function.
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Performance Car of The Year is front wheel drive?
This says more about Road and Track magazine than the Hyundai.
:thumb:
No idea why people read that stuff. If those types of articles meant anything, we certainly wouldn't be riding Moto Guzzi's.
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I'd rather read about anything than Hyundai's. I am sitting on a time bomb, 2011 first year of the recalls to hundreds of thousands of Hyundai and Kia 4 cylinder engines that were not cleaned correctly after milling. They even installed a governor in it incase the engine starts to fail and it doesn't allow you to go about 1900 RPMs so you can limp to a dealer before it locks up. They extended the warranty by 10,000 miles but did not extend the years. I only have 67K on it and and most of the failures start occurring from from the 60K to 100k miles although some engines failed at 5K.
I am using a quart at 3K. I have bought many cheap used cares that never used a quart at 3K. I am probably going to pull this oil at 2500 miles and send it off to be analyzed. I have all oil changes done at Sonata so they cannot claim I did it incorrectly.
I talked to the service manager at my dealer 2 years ago and he said they were a month behind on replacing short blocks in these cars. Only my 2nd new car and waiting for it to fail.
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As a side note. Electric cars are now out selling manual transmission cars by almost two to one in the US.
According to JD Powers, stick now has a market penetration of 1.1%, while EV are at 1.9% and rapidly increasing.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-cars-outsell-manual-transmissions/
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As a side note. Electric cars are now out selling manual transmission cars by almost two to one.
According to JD Powers, stick now has a market penetration of 1.1%, while EV are at 1.9% and rapidly increasing.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-cars-outsell-manual-transmissions/
Makes me want a stick shift E car :grin:
Dusty
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So far as driving a Mclaren vs Veloster on a spirited twisty road? I'd take the Hyundai anyday. The former would get you killed while the later would be fun.
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The Hyundai Genesis is a damn fine car. Right there with Lexus for less money.
As for the Vette, Chevrolet put on a dog and pony show in late summer. A dealer could get the car (orange) for one day at the dealership for a mere $30,000. Lots of displays came with it. Kitty Van Bortel, a Rochester NY Subaru and Chevy dealer brought it in. Her allotment of Vettes for 2020 is 120 cars. They sold 20 that day and half their allotment by one week later! Consider this - the car went to 3 Rochester area dealers for that one day showing. It went to no dealers in Buffalo or Syracuse. Ya think there is still a lot of money in Rochester?
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Quote from: bad Chad on Today at 11:51:12 AM (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=103635.msg1641069#msg1641069)As a side note. Electric cars are now out selling manual transmission cars by almost two to one in the US.
According to JD Powers, stick now has a market penetration of 1.1%, while EV are at 1.9% and rapidly increasing.
>https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-cars-outsell-manual-transmissions/ (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-cars-outsell-manual-transmissions/)
Actually it's quite easy to sell more EVs as fewer vehicles with manual transmissions are offered.
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The last I knew Ram is the only diesel heavy pickup manufacturer to offer a manual transmission. However they reduce power because the trans can't handle the full amount of torque the the engine can produce.
kk
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That’s part of my point twochecks. Electric car sales are rising rapidly whilst sticks are declining rapidly.
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Hyundai Santa Cruz
-AJ
I just wish they made a pickup truck👍
I got curious about these cars and took a look see on the web. It appears a person who wants a top rated sports car that has been ordained rated right along with the best, can buy one a couple years old and low mileage for 15k and that’s with 8 years warranty left. Like I said at first, sure wished they made a truck:)
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I suppose it all depends on someone's point of view.
I just read an article about ten or twenty muscle cars nobody wants to be seen in. Amongst many that I would never even consider to be a muscle car in the first place, was most notably a Pinto. Yeah, a Pinto. From the factory, it was considered an economy car grocery getter. Not really a performance vehicle by any means. Could be, but not from the factory.
Well, you know what they say about opinions...
ZZ
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an article about ten or twenty muscle cars nobody wants to be seen in.
gotta love Facebook!
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gotta love Facebook!
Not on faceplant, or twizzler, or something else. But I get what you're eluding to. :violent1:
ZZ
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I bought a brand new Vega in 72. It was an absolute blast to drive. No rattles or clunkiness, sharp as a tack in tight cornering, very well balanced. I can see why it was highly regarded. The cost cutting BS problems from GM (thinned out the cylinder coating to save money, no rustproofing) showed up far beyond what any test magazine finds. If GM had sleeved those things and did any kind of rust proofing, they would still be highly thought of. BTW, a GM tech told me he never saw a warped block on a Vega with the proper amount of antifreeze in it. Even today that is a critical issue. It was not close to challenging a real supercar, tho, and I would never have made that claim.
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My son has a 2016 Ford Fucus ST that I get to drive all winter while he is in college in snow country (I trade him my old 4x4 suburban).
The Focus ST is the car the Hundai is a copy of. Same 275 turbo ponies, same hot hatch, and same price. A real hoot to drive. In fact nicest car I have ever driven.
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I bought a brand new Vega in 72. It was an absolute blast to drive. No rattles or clunkiness, sharp as a tack in tight cornering, very well balanced. I can see why it was highly regarded. The cost cutting BS problems from GM (thinned out the cylinder coating to save money, no rustproofing) showed up far beyond what any test magazine finds. If GM had sleeved those things and did any kind of rust proofing, they would still be highly thought of. BTW, a GM tech told me he never saw a warped block on a Vega with the proper amount of antifreeze in it. Even today that is a critical issue. It was not close to challenging a real supercar, tho, and I would never have made that claim.
Yes, the Vega was the considered the best handling US made sedan....GM devoloped the car and then handed it over to Chevy to finish...Chevy engineers were applaed at the engine design and wanted to put in a different engine..Chevy wanted to install inner fender liners...GM said no...The car was dipped in a rust proofing solution but the body has many small voids that prevented full coverage...
This story is the Vega doing the impossible...
https://chevyvega.fandom.com/wiki/Car_and_Driver%27s_SS/Sedan_Challenge_1973_Vega_GT (https://chevyvega.fandom.com/wiki/Car_and_Driver%27s_SS/Sedan_Challenge_1973_Vega_GT)
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Just got it in the mail... Road & Track in their Dec. 2019 compared all the greatest cars in the world on the track and on the road, from McClaren Porsche, Corvette, Lambo, and others. All the testers voted the $30,000 Hyundai Veloster N "The 2020 Performance Car of The year"! A SHOCKER! $30,000 buys you the best performing car!?!
Anyone else read this?
Nope, I quit reading that magazine about 25 years ago, some lame article similar to what you describe.
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I bought a brand new Vega in 72. It was an absolute blast to drive. No rattles or clunkiness, sharp as a tack in tight cornering, very well balanced. I can see why it was highly regarded. The cost cutting BS problems from GM (thinned out the cylinder coating to save money, no rustproofing) showed up far beyond what any test magazine finds. If GM had sleeved those things and did any kind of rust proofing, they would still be highly thought of. BTW, a GM tech told me he never saw a warped block on a Vega with the proper amount of antifreeze in it. Even today that is a critical issue. It was not close to challenging a real supercar, tho, and I would never have made that claim.
I had many, many cars in high school and college. I would buy them from junkyards or on the side of the road, get them running and usually they’d last a few months before they were sold, died or crashed. I found an honest to god Cosworth Vega in a junkyard when I was about 17. They weren’t collectible in 1986 and most people had no idea what they were. I resurrected it in a week and drove it for six months. Yes, Vega’s absolutely warped heads on the regular. In fact, 33 years later I still have scars across the tops of three fingers from when I picked up a Vega block partly by the flywheel. It spun when I lifted it and peeled back the flesh of three of my knuckles to the bone.
It lasted six months before the entire rear axle was ripped from under the car during some late night shenanigans that involved alcohol, racing an IROC Camaro down a dirt road with our lights off and a very large stone wall.
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I get called in to my son's work every now and then when they get busy doing power steering and wheel alignment. I must say I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to working on vehicles the Hyundai overall would have to be about the best when it comes to doing post-assembly work on them. Their design makes sense and thought has gone in to helping poor suckers who have to work on them at a later date.
The absolute worst are the European vehicles. For example, there is a Mercedes 4WD SUV which, when you have to take the steering rack out you have to drop the entire front end and take the front diff out. :rolleyes: There is a vital bolt which has to be removed. It can't be. :shocked: You have to sneak up a very narrow gap with a pneumatic hack saw and cut the head off, it will then slide out. This bolt is high tensile with a hardened surface. There is no-one who makes this bolt; it has to come from Mercedes at great cost. If they had put this bolt in the other way round it could be easily withdrawn; they didn't. :evil: :evil: :evil: There is absolutely no crap like that with Hyundai.
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Real hot rods have clutches .
Dusty
Well my 2000cc Pinto had a clutch and rack and pinion steering.
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Well my 2000cc Pinto had a clutch and rack and pinion steering.
:laugh: Well , the 1600 CC OHC engine was used in thousands of FF race cars .
Dusty
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Well that is interesting! There is in the moment a single car that has the potential to "rock the automotive world": the new Mazda 3 with the self-ignited petrol engine (and yes I know it has and uses spark plugs). An engine that is as frugal on gas as a modern Diesel but at least as clean as a very good normal petrol engine. Light because they build it with intelligence and just invented very hard and tensible steel that they could put into their presses. And at least in my eyes it does not look good but stunning. And its ride is not as good as that of a Golf or Focus. It is as good as that of a Jaguar (I have driven all of them).
All other cars in the moment are just - cars. And Hyundai? Well here my experience is limited. I had a brand-new I10 for a week ant it was by far the worst car I have ever driven. Making a good small car is an art. Renault and Ford can do that. And Mazda. Hyundai? No.
Interesting regarding the Mazda 3: Most journalists who have driven that car (be it in GB, US, NZ, AUS, India, CH, ...) say it is that good. Only our German journalists try to hide these characteristics. A bigger booth suddenly seems to be of more importance to them.
And no, I don´t drive that model. My car is a Mercedes C-Class that is in the family for 25 years now and will stay there until it dies.
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:laugh: Well , the 1600 CC OHC engine was used in thousands of FF race cars .
Dusty
The 2000 cc OHC were cam eaters, very few made it to 30K miles without a cam replacment...But they and the 2300cc made their mark when modified for midget car circle track..I believe the 1600 cc engine standard in the early Pintos was the Kent OHV ? Same engine used later in the German built Fiesta....
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The 2000 cc OHC were cam eaters, very few made it to 30K miles without a cam replacment...But they and the 2300cc made their mark when modified for midget car circle track..I believe the 1600 cc engine standard in the early Pintos was the Kent OHV ? Same engine used later in the German built Fiesta....
Fiesta, Escort (in a Cosworth - version this model achieved the Rallye World-Championship), Ka, Lotus, De Tomaso (!),...
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..I believe the 1600 cc engine standard in the early Pintos was the Kent OHV ? Same engine used later in the German built Fiesta....
Yup, and in the Morgan 4/4 ....
Lannis
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Yup, and in the Morgan 4/4 ....
Lannis
Yup, and in the Caterham Super Seven Sprint...
(and maybe in late Lotus Sevens?...hafta pull the book)
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I just read an article about ten or twenty muscle cars nobody wants to be seen in.
ZZ
1970 AMC Rebel Machine
(https://static3.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/maxresdefault-17.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=416)
Not a beauty, but it would be fun to own.
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:laugh: Well , the 1600 CC OHC engine was used in thousands of FF race cars .
Dusty
Well now I know I had a hot rod cause after I posted I remembered it was a 1600 cc. It was the engine that the timing belt could break and not wreck the valves. I had it break on me and pulled off the road. I was able to fix it roadside without much work.
It really was a fun little car and got 30+ MPG if I wasn't "hot rodding" it. :grin:
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Well now I know I had a hot rod cause after I posted I remembered it was a 1600 cc. It was the engine that the timing belt could break and not wreck the valves. I had it break on me and pulled off the road. I was able to fix it roadside without much work.
It really was a fun little car and got 30+ MPG if I wasn't "hot rodding" it. :grin:
The 1600 was an overhead-valve design, not overhead-cam, so no cam belt.
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The 1600 was an overhead-valve design, not overhead-cam, so no cam belt.
Well there goes another hole in my memory. I guess it was a 2000 cc. One thing for sure it had a timing belt that broke at 40 mph and the valves were just fine and I did fix it road side.
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Yup, and in the Caterham Super Seven Sprint...
(and maybe in late Lotus Sevens?...hafta pull the book)
Yes. My Seven had the 1600 Kent block. Elan’s did too.
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A good friend has a Super 7 back in the 1970's...His had a 1000cc engine and was not very fast at all..He had sort of 1600 DOHC engine but he never got around to swapping it in.He sold the car in 1981 for $6800..Was the DOHC based on the Kent block?
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A good friend has a Super 7 back in the 1970's...His had a 1000cc engine and was not very fast at all..He had sort of 1600 DOHC engine but he never got around to swapping it in.He sold the car in 1981 for $6800..Was the DOHC based on the Kent block?
Everything you want to know about the various 1600 cc Fords including the Kent as well as 2000cc.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00149
From the above link
"A belt-driven DOHC version was made just for Lotus in the 1960s using a short-deck 1500cc Kent engine block. Cosworth put their own belt-driven DOHC heads on many different Kent engines, including the "uprated" 1600cc block."
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Takeaway....they make a very good auto, at a reasonable price.
Did not read. What was mpg?
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1970 AMC Rebel Machine
(https://static3.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/maxresdefault-17.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=416)
Not a beauty, but it would be fun to own.
I didn't own that model, but I owned a '68 AMC Rebel sedan. Even for a guy who was used to driving older cars, the AMC was a rolling anachronism. It still had vacuum-operated windshield wipers, the kind that came to a stop when you punched the gas to pass someone in the rain, and then went like mad when you backed off. The sheet metal was heavy; it was build like a tank. No power steering so it took a stout man to handle it, everything was over-built and solid feeling, though. It FELT older than the '64 Ford Falcon that I had before it.
Lannis
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1970 AMC Rebel Machine
(https://static3.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/maxresdefault-17.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=416)
Not a beauty, but it would be fun to own.
Yes it would. I'm not sure if it was that model, ( I think it was), or a different one that made a a showing at a local car show this past year, but it had a V8, 4 speed, bucket seats, ram air and body graphics like or similar to your pic. Anyway, neat. I don't know anything about its performance though. My buddy has a '69 AMX. Green, white stripes, 390 4 speed, side pipes. It had its shortcomings but it was pretty fast and really looked cool. At high speed, (breaking the law), the rear of the door windows would gap away from the quarter glass by about an inch.
I suppose in '98 when the motorcycle world named the '98 Cali EV as the bike of the year, the motorcycle got rocked too. :laugh:
John Henry
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Yes it would. I'm not sure if it was that model, ( I think it was), or a different one that made a a showing at a local car show this past year, but it had a V8, 4 speed, bucket seats, ram air and body graphics like or similar to your pic. Anyway, neat. I don't know anything about its performance though. My buddy has a '69 AMX. Green, white stripes, 390 4 speed, side pipes. It had its shortcomings but it was pretty fasy and really looked cool. At high speed, (breaking the law), the rear of the door windows would gap away from the quarter glass by about an inch.
I suppose in '98 when the motorcycle world named the '98 Cali EV as the bike of the year, the motorcycle got rocked too. :laugh:
John Henry
Your example was likely a Hurst Rambler Scrambler , and yes , the early 390 AMX models were considered fast in their day .
Dusty
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My buddy has a '69 AMX. Green, white stripes, 390 4 speed, side pipes. It had its shortcomings but it was pretty fasy and really looked cool. At high speed, (breaking the law), the rear of the door windows would gap away from the quarter glass by about an inch.
John Henry
Probably the only AMC car I ever wanted to own.
(https://assets.hemmings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2018/08/250741.jpg)
The interiors were pretty boring compared to what GM or Ford were offering at that time.
(https://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/69247360-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=25)
The latest season of Better Call Saul has a 71 Javelin in the show owned by a drug dealer, which has to be the first time I've ever seen that vehicle in any entertainment show or movie.
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Your example was likely a Hurst Rambler Scrambler , and yes , the early 390 AMX models were considered fast in their day .
Dusty
(https://www.classiccarstudio.com/speedshop/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/10/AMC-AMX-5.jpg)
(http://knowhow.napaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Rambler_SCrambler_Lead.jpg)
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(https://www.classiccarstudio.com/speedshop/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/10/AMC-AMX-5.jpg)
(http://knowhow.napaonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Rambler_SCrambler_Lead.jpg)
It's odd , I simply don't miss the good old days at all . Of course not ever being a car guy , those cars didn't cause me any excitement even in 1970.
Dusty
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It's odd , I simply don't miss the good old days at all . Of course not ever being a car guy , those cars didn't cause me any excitement even in 1970.
Dusty
Dusty doesn't like cars? For a guy who just came up with this bit of trivia "Well , the 1600 CC OHC engine was used in thousands of FF race cars." Surely you jest. :grin:
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Dusty doesn't like cars? For a guy who just came up with this bit of trivia "Well , the 1600 CC OHC engine was used in thousands of FF race cars." Surely you jest. :grin:
There is an exception for open wheel racing cars :grin:
Dusty
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In the early 70s I worked at a gas station and every nice Sunday afternoon this older couple would come to gas up their gold colored AMX 390 4-speed. She was dressed like a typical little old lady and he like an English gentleman complete with the tweed jacket and leather driving gloves. Bet that car would have been a great used buy a few years later.
GliderJohn
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There is an exception for open wheel racing cars :grin:
Dusty
Take a load of this one, it didn't stay in one piece very long and dang near killed the Flyin' Hawaiian but it was a one of a kind.
(http://500legends.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Danny-Ongais-1981-Indy-50012.jpg)
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Take a load of this one, it didn't stay in one piece very long and dang near killed the Flyin' Hawaiian but it was a one of a kind.
(http://500legends.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Danny-Ongais-1981-Indy-50012.jpg)
[/quote
Penske ?
Dusty
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Not Penske. "The Batmobile". I thought it was a one-off built for Danny by Ted Field/Interscope Team but it might have been a variation of that year's Eagle. Crashed to oblivion and smashed Danny's legs. (You can google the photos) Danny wasn't done and competitive years after and raced at Indy in the '90s. He's still kicking.
Danny raced everything: bikes, Top Fuel Drag Champion, IMSA Champion in Top Level Porsche Turbos , Lemans Porsche Turbo, F-1, and Indycar.
He was going to field a Factory Porsche Indycar but it was banned before entry.
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It's odd , I simply don't miss the good old days at all . Of course not ever being a car guy , those cars didn't cause me any excitement even in 1970.
Dusty
i'll have to agree that old guys look back on 60's Muscle cars and pony cars with rose colored glasses...I clearly remember, as compared to modern vehicles the harsh ride, limited handling ,not so good brakes and cowl shake and rattles over rough roads...Like a vintage Triumph, the are fun for certain situations until some punk in his mom's V6 family car blows you off.. :grin:
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i'll have to agree that old guys look back on 60's Muscle cars and pony cars with rose colored glasses...I clearly remember, as compared to modern vehicles the harsh ride, limited handling ,not so good brakes and cowl shake and rattles over rough roads...Like a vintage Triumph, the are fun for certain situations until some punk in his mom's V6 family car blows you off.. :grin:
:laugh:
Yeah , aren't the new Camry 4 cylinder cars capable of 130 MPH ? Have ridden in Gliderjohn's V6 Altima , it is really quick .
Dusty
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:laugh:
Yeah , aren't the new Camry 4 cylinder cars capable of 130 MPH ? Have ridden in Gliderjohn's V6 Altima , it is really quick .
Dusty
The V6 Camry has 300hp and ticks off 0-60 in 6 seconds.
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But you can't be cool in a Camary like you can be cool in a 60's car...
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But you can't be cool in a Camary like you can be cool in a 60's car...
To paraphrase Robert Pirsig , the only cool you will have in any car is the cool you bring with you .
Dusty
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I have a 70 el Camino with a 396, lumpy cam, headers,etc and recently some guy pulled up next to me with a late model Boss 302 Mustang and proceeded to rev his engine at the traffic light. I laughed as that car could eat the el Camino and the last thing I needed was a ticket for racing.
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I have a 70 el Camino with a 396, lumpy cam, headers,etc and recently some guy pulled up next to me with a late model Boss 302 Mustang and proceeded to rev his engine at the traffic light. I laughed as that car could eat the el Camino and the last thing I needed was a ticket for racing.
Go get em tiger....
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/02ea2e1a0dcd7a9f35ae76e52c76873b/tenor.gif?itemid=15035152)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQUfsq-0z-s
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Go get em tiger....
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/02ea2e1a0dcd7a9f35ae76e52c76873b/tenor.gif?itemid=15035152)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQUfsq-0z-s
:laugh:Yeah, he took off in that Mustang.
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???????
kk
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But you can't be cool in a Camary like you can be cool in a 60's car...
Sleepers are cool. A bone stock Camry with 300hp will destroy most stock muscle cars of the 60’s and 70’s. It’ll do it in with a silent cabin, getting 30+ miles to the gallon, with a 70 year old grandma behind the wheel. It’ll do it for 250,000 miles with no work besides replacing consumables. There are all different kinds of cool.
Do I want a Camry or the Hyundai this thread is about? Nope. Doesn’t mean they aren’t both really impressive and good cars though. All that being said, I drive a ten year old Tacoma with a five speed, bench seat and roll up windows so wth do I know?
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Road on Crack strikes again............
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I drive a ten year old Tacoma with a five speed, bench seat and roll up windows so wth do I know?
You are cool because you have a manual transmission...I am cool because I have never owned a vehicle with a self shifter, everyone here with a clutch pedal vehicle is cool...Using two arms and two legs to drive shows we are cool.... :thumb:
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All that being said, I drive a ten year old Tacoma with a five speed, bench seat and roll up windows so wth do I know?
And 4 wheel drive? hens teeth! The perfect vehicle!
as for Camry's (tangents abound) I had a 96 Camry Wagon with the 3rd row rumble seat and the 1MZ-FE motor. All around the finest car I've driven. For years these wouldn't even make it onto lots for sale as they were so sought after, when traded in the the list of 'call me when you find one' customers meant they were detailed and sold within hours. Fantastic cars. The ex totaled it. Drove it under an F-350 in the early days of smart phones...texting, of course.
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A friend of mine owns a 2003 Camry with a manual transmission. Rare is putting it mildly.
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Are all you Toyota cultists also Linux cultists?
Asking for a friend.
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This fun 66, Corvette vs 2015 Camry, but really which is more fun to drive?
https://youtu.be/w6RIb9EyDtE
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You are cool because you have a manual transmission...I am cool because I have never owned a vehicle with a self shifter, everyone here with a clutch pedal vehicle is cool...Using two arms and two legs to drive shows we are cool.... :thumb:
Well, sometimes if you want a particular vehicle and it was never sold in the US with a manual, then you pretty much have no choice. Case in point: my '93 VW Eurovan was a five cylinder with five speed, but finally got to the point where it wasn't worth fixing. I wanted another newer Eurovan, one that wasn't rusted all to heck. My only choices? VR6 engine with automatic. :sad:
Same with my 190E 2.6 - very few were ever imported with a manual transmission and finding a low miles, rust free one like mine is hard enough. So I "settled" for one with an automatic. :rolleyes:
I still use "two arms and two legs to drive" - I've always left foot braked when driving automatics. :wink:
Of course, I'm one of those weirdos that loves their Convert as well.
Signed,
Shiftless Charlie. :grin:
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And 4 wheel drive? hens teeth! The perfect vehicle!
as for Camry's (tangents abound) I had a 96 Camry Wagon with the 3rd row rumble seat and the 1MZ-FE motor. All around the finest car I've driven. For years these wouldn't even make it onto lots for sale as they were so sought after, when traded in the the list of 'call me when you find one' customers meant they were detailed and sold within hours. Fantastic cars. The ex totaled it. Drove it under an F-350 in the early days of smart phones...texting, of course.
Took me forever to find it. Regular cab, 4 x 4, 5 speed, 4 cylinder with a bench seat and roll up windows. They're exceedingly hard to find in New England and Tacoma resale is borderline absurd. I bought it almost three years ago with 65,000 miles on it. It just cracked 100k. If I can keep the rust off it, I think it'll last another ten years.
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This fun 66, Corvette vs 2015 Camry, but really which is more fun to drive?
https://youtu.be/w6RIb9EyDtE
The real question is which car would you rather be seen in by a group of young ladies . The Camry is likely more fun to drive , and certainly a lot safer and less maintenance intensive , but won't impress the ladies , right ?
Dusty
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If you want a stick in a nice 4 door car, there's the Accord. I have a 6SM in mine with a sunroof. They handle great and have all the practicality. As I've said many times, it's hard to justify spending anymore or any less for any car than an Accord.
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If you want a stick in a nice 4 door car, there's the Accord. I have a 6SM in mine with a sunroof. They handle great and have all the practicality. As I've said many times, it's hard to justify spending anymore or any less for any car than an Accord.
It is an impressive car :thumb:
Dusty
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Not sure I’m reading the Honda web site right, but I don’t see any manual transmission Accords.
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Not sure I’m reading the Honda web site right, but I don’t see any manual transmission Accords.
You're reading wrong Chad. But unlike previous years, the stick is only available on Sport Trim. It used to be available on all the trims in limited selections like my '14 EX (only in Silver or Gray w/black interior). Now only in Sport Trim with many colors and options.