Author Topic: V7 850 trouble in paradise  (Read 10093 times)

Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2021, 03:25:03 PM »
Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2021, 03:33:08 PM »
Well, if no one else can fix it, he'll have to do it himself.
That reminds me, it’s laundry day.
But it’s only a small load, I’ll do it by hand.. :rolleyes:

Offline greer

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2021, 05:28:31 AM »
Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.

I hope you'll pester for the exact particulars, and whether or not the part is immediately available.  Thanks for bringing us along.

Sarah 
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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2021, 09:56:08 AM »
Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.

Geeez, half the sensors are Incorporated into the throttle body ECU, wonder if that is what they are replacing?

Though it's super odd that, if it was actually identified, the part isn't ALREADY ordered. WTF would they be waiting for, a special planetary alignment before they actually press the button and order it?!?
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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2021, 09:56:08 AM »

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2021, 10:23:15 AM »
I hope that they are not doing a “ let’s try this sensor, and see if it fixes it...” method.
That can be an exercise in futility.

Well further update. Seems to be a sensor. The tech is Not into today but the counter person says the problem has been identified and the part will be ordered soon. He is just not sure what sensor the tech mentioned.
John
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2021, 11:03:55 AM »
I don't have a wiring diagram.  Does this bike have a "bank angle" sensor (tipover sensor)?...

Good thought.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2021, 08:33:02 AM »
I’m trying to be patient but must admit I’m pretty aggravated with the dealer’s lack of communication. They tell me they will call update and never call. I usually call the day after they are supposed to call. I do not wish to specifically hate on anybody but I’m not happy. I wish I had the time to get it Austin but it was between that and leaving it in a public parking lot for too long. Getting it towed was like pulling teeth this time of year. If the sensor fixes it great if it doesn’t I’m headed to Austin.


Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2021, 12:03:55 PM »
So final update it turned out to be a bad fuel sensor that’s been ordered from piaggio. It’s coming from Italy according to the tech so at least two weeks out. But at least I know now.

It’s been pulling teeth to get a call back.

Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2021, 01:04:26 PM »
Can you get us the part number for this sensor?
I will attempt that but the service department was barely able to tell me a fuel sensor was the problem. They just said they don’t know. I will look up a parts catalogue and try and find it.

Offline Yan

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2021, 01:17:24 PM »
How can they don't know when they just ordered it?
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2021, 02:23:05 PM »
So there’s a disconnect between the counter guy and the tech or lack of communication. Usually when I call the counter guy explains the tech isn’t in and he doesn’t know.

Offline TN Mark

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2021, 02:37:22 PM »
What dealer in what city?

Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2021, 03:42:40 PM »
What dealer in what city?
[/quote. I’m not happy with my experience with this dealer as when I call asking questions they seem put out. They haven’t called back any time they told me they would. Is it ok to post who they are. In one hand I appreciate that found the problem but I think the customer service is lacking.


Online Kev m

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2021, 05:12:45 PM »
You're either dealing with a completely incompetent dealer/staff or you are getting a very conscious run around.

A parts guy is gonna know the proper name and description for the part they've been asked to order by the tech.

What pray tell is a "fuel sensor"?

There's a fuel level sensor, but that would only effect the low fuel light circuit.

Someone might call the other sensors generally "fuel system sensors" or "EFI sensors" but that's almost a useless description cause it's a category not an actual single part.

No other sensors that affect EFI operation tend to have the word "fuel" in them.

There are things like crankshaft position or camshaft position sensors (I believe Guzzi only used the former).

There are things like throttle position sensor, intake air temperature, air pressure, cylinder head or engine temperature sensor.

Like I said earlier MOST of these sensors on the smallblock are integrated into the throttle body/ECU and aren't separately replaceable.

Anyway, you're either talking to a moron or they are treating you like one.

Sorry to be indelicate.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 05:18:06 PM by Kev m »
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Offline Dirk_S

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2021, 05:15:52 PM »
I’m trying to be patient but must admit I’m pretty aggravated with the dealer’s lack of communication. They tell me they will call update and never call. I usually call the day after they are supposed to call. I do not wish to specifically hate on anybody but I’m not happy. I wish I had the time to get it Austin but it was between that and leaving it in a public parking lot for too long. Getting it towed was like pulling teeth this time of year. If the sensor fixes it great if it doesn’t I’m headed to Austin.

This is far from an isolated experience. I almost 100% expect a store or service shop to not call back by the specified time they mentioned anymore. I admit I’m an idealist, but when I say I’m going to do something for someone by a certain time, I really push to do that, and I expect likewise. Sure, work gets in the way for everyone from time to time, but I think it’s a cultural issue in today’s society to see it happen so much. Add to that the fact that there aren’t enough dealerships to compete with the bad ones to push them to be better.
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Offline blu guzz

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2021, 05:18:47 PM »
Dirk:  Too many of the greatest generation are gone.  They once set the tone for civility in relationships with one another.
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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2021, 05:26:03 PM »
Dirk:  Too many of the greatest generation are gone.  They once set the tone for civility in relationships with one another.

I mean, my uncle who fought in Korea was a big racist, so there are stinkers and sweethearts in every group ;)

I do think this fast-paced world and some of the spoils that come along with it get to us, regardless of the demographics we fit in.
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Offline 9fingers

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2021, 06:19:37 PM »
ON the other hand........IF they do actually have a part on order from Italy (you could probably check with Piaggio to see if this dealer has ordered parts....unless they ordered it from AF1, which some dealers do), maybe it won't take so long after all. I just received a skid plate from Greece (for my V Strom).....2 days shipping, and also a pair of shocks from UK for my V7III, 2 days shipping. Going thru Piaggio will likely slow it down but keep your hopes up..........maybe they will actually cure the issue. And yes, I am an optomist.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2021, 07:05:16 PM »
You're either dealing with a completely incompetent dealer/staff or you are getting a very conscious run around.

A parts guy is gonna know the proper name and description for the part they've been asked to order by the tech.

What pray tell is a "fuel sensor"?

There's a fuel level sensor, but that would only effect the low fuel light circuit.

Someone might call the other sensors generally "fuel system sensors" or "EFI sensors" but that's almost a useless description cause it's a category not an actual single part.

No other sensors that affect EFI operation tend to have the word "fuel" in them.

There are things like crankshaft position or camshaft position sensors (I believe Guzzi only used the former).

There are things like throttle position sensor, intake air temperature, air pressure, cylinder head or engine temperature sensor.

Like I said earlier MOST of these sensors on the smallblock are integrated into the throttle body/ECU and aren't separately replaceable.

Anyway, you're either talking to a moron or they are treating you like one.

Sorry to be indelicate.


Not indelicate at all. I feel I have gotten the run around as the service desk never picks up my calls or returns my messages. I explained I had a thread going and people were curious as to what part and what is going on. But to talk to them I call the sales department and they transfer me over to service at which point they tell me the tech isn’t there. I hope they are just treating me as a moron and know how to fix this .

The unit being one unit makes sense but I don’t know much about the electronic side.

Online bad Chad

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2021, 07:17:59 PM »
What is the reason you don’t identify the dealer you’re working with?
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Online Kev m

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2021, 07:29:17 PM »


Not indelicate at all. I feel I have gotten the run around as the service desk never picks up my calls or returns my messages. I explained I had a thread going and people were curious as to what part and what is going on. But to talk to them I call the sales department and they transfer me over to service at which point they tell me the tech isn’t there. I hope they are just treating me as a moron and know how to fix this .

The unit being one unit makes sense but I don’t know much about the electronic side.

Fingers crossed....
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2021, 07:32:34 PM »
What is the reason you don’t identify the dealer you’re working with?
well I read the rules said no dealer bashing or something to that effect. I’m also not sure it’s wise while they have my bike. Just suffice to say don’t buy a Moto Guzzi in Houston

Offline smdl

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2021, 09:40:31 PM »


Not indelicate at all. I feel I have gotten the run around as the service desk never picks up my calls or returns my messages. I explained I had a thread going and people were curious as to what part and what is going on. But to talk to them I call the sales department and they transfer me over to service at which point they tell me the tech isn’t there. I hope they are just treating me as a moron and know how to fix this .

The unit being one unit makes sense but I don’t know much about the electronic side.

If anyone is interested in the MIU G3 looks like and does (ECU, throttle body, etc.), there is some good info here:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.guzzitek.org/documents/injection/ECU_MIU-G3_Training.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiV1_XNsuf0AhU3GTQIHYUuCf4QFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw1JMaG9Br6_xlDrZPm5Knwu

Cheers,
Shaun



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Offline lucky phil

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2021, 10:19:32 PM »
If anyone is interested in the MIU G3 looks like and does (ECU, throttle body, etc.), there is some good info here:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.guzzitek.org/documents/injection/ECU_MIU-G3_Training.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiV1_XNsuf0AhU3GTQIHYUuCf4QFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw1JMaG9Br6_xlDrZPm5Knwu

Cheers,
Shaun

Thanks for posting that, very interesting and at the same time disappointing. I don't like this integration of components. It's brilliant until a single component fails or wears then it's an expensive nightmare. Add it to the pressed up plain pin crank with 1 piece rods. They ain't doing it for the customer that's riding it in 10 years plus time.

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Offline krglorioso

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2021, 10:26:34 PM »
Given your patience and your calm chronicling of your dealer's lethargy, I don't think it would be dealer bashing to out him. There was a time when we had a fair number of small but very committed Guzzi dealers.  One by one, they mostly fell by the wayside. 

Just my two cents' worth.

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2021, 10:46:14 PM »
Pressed together cranks aren't a big issue. They have been used forever. Look at all the Harleys on the road. They really only have a problem when someone bumps them way beyond what they were designed to do.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2021, 07:04:56 AM »
well thank you for posting that manual regarding the electronics. My favorite part :"

As a result, the functionality of these devices can only be
tested with the diagnostic software. The unit is contained in a sealed casing. In the event of
malfunction of any of the internal devices, the entire unit must
be replaced."

I know this was mentioned a few times. Does not seem like a bad system but I dont like the integrated unit. If this craps out after warranty I might be tempted to do something crazy like carbs. Hopefully wont come to that and I dont know if thats feasible.

Just to be clear the dealer I took this to is not MPH and I would like to state I have not had any dealings with MPH but I what I heard is positive and that I know they are always busy. Im glad I bought the bike from AF1 but Im hoping this sorts this out and I dont see this Houston dealer lasting long.

Online Kev m

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2021, 08:31:15 AM »
well thank you for posting that manual regarding the electronics. My favorite part :"

As a result, the functionality of these devices can only be
tested with the diagnostic software. The unit is contained in a sealed casing. In the event of
malfunction of any of the internal devices, the entire unit must
be replaced."

I know this was mentioned a few times. Does not seem like a bad system but I dont like the integrated unit. If this craps out after warranty I might be tempted to do something crazy like carbs. Hopefully wont come to that and I dont know if thats feasible.

Just to be clear the dealer I took this to is not MPH and I would like to state I have not had any dealings with MPH but I what I heard is positive and that I know they are always busy. Im glad I bought the bike from AF1 but Im hoping this sorts this out and I dont see this Houston dealer lasting long.

A lot of people have that reaction to technology, which is funny, because cars for instance are so much more heavily reliant on it these days with a dozen separate computer modules all networked and tons of components that are integrated and only replaceable as a unit. And guess what? Most last for hundreds of thousands of miles and decades without failure. Sure some will happen, that's life.

If you drop your phone (and don't have insurance) or tablet or laptop you could be out as much as the unit in question.

Ride more, worry less. ... at least once they fix it. Which they or someone will.

On the diagnostics, I'm assuming GuzziDiag (free shareware) could also tap into it for error codes and some live data collection to see what's wrong.

But scan tools aren't everything and a tech needs to also think through a problem. A significant number of "electrical" malfunctions are actually mechanical in nature - a physically damaged component that isn't acting properly but the scan tool doesn't just name it, it names the system that is affected.

As for retrofitting carbs, that sorta idea will get support from the luddites who are scared of or don't understand the aforementioned technology but it's a bad idea on so many levels. Not the least of which for someone who is a daily rider, as when straightened out the EFI bike will start and run easier and require less attention its entire life.

Poop happens to everything once in a while. Once this is sorted you'll be good to go.

PS MPH is/was once very loved here. They are good people who Piaggio screwed to give another dealer a franchise. I'm not even sure if the guy you're talking to is the same one for whom Piaggio screwed them, might be, or he might have already failed and this is another. But for future reference, MPH is definitely a good resource. Of course, I have no idea if they have any official relationship with Piaggio NA anymore so I don't know if they could do warranty work per se, still it's good to be aware of them if you're in their area.

Good luck!
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2021, 08:48:16 AM »
 :boozing:Good point on the carbs. This bike is my daily transportation so I get the point of fuel injection. So anyways I miss it terribly. thanks to all

Offline lucky phil

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Re: V7 850 trouble in paradise
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2021, 02:39:28 PM »
A lot of people have that reaction to technology, which is funny, because cars for instance are so much more heavily reliant on it these days with a dozen separate computer modules all networked and tons of components that are integrated and only replaceable as a unit. And guess what? Most last for hundreds of thousands of miles and decades without failure. Sure some will happen, that's life.

If you drop your phone (and don't have insurance) or tablet or laptop you could be out as much as the unit in question.

Ride more, worry less. ... at least once they fix it. Which they or someone will.

On the diagnostics, I'm assuming GuzziDiag (free shareware) could also tap into it for error codes and some live data collection to see what's wrong.

But scan tools aren't everything and a tech needs to also think through a problem. A significant number of "electrical" malfunctions are actually mechanical in nature - a physically damaged component that isn't acting properly but the scan tool doesn't just name it, it names the system that is affected.

As for retrofitting carbs, that sorta idea will get support from the luddites who are scared of or don't understand the aforementioned technology but it's a bad idea on so many levels. Not the least of which for someone who is a daily rider, as when straightened out the EFI bike will start and run easier and require less attention its entire life.

Poop happens to everything once in a while. Once this is sorted you'll be good to go.

PS MPH is/was once very loved here. They are good people who Piaggio screwed to give another dealer a franchise. I'm not even sure if the guy you're talking to is the same one for whom Piaggio screwed them, might be, or he might have already failed and this is another. But for future reference, MPH is definitely a good resource. Of course, I have no idea if they have any official relationship with Piaggio NA anymore so I don't know if they could do warranty work per se, still it's good to be aware of them if you're in their area.

Good luck!

"That's life" it's an easy throw away statement until it's your own machine that's affected. It's a bit like "no worries it's got a warranty" Has anyone ever utilised the wonderful and amazingly easy and hassle free pathway most warranty claim end to end processes are for anything of a remotely technical nature is these days? I love fuel injection, wouldn't want to go back to carbs for any money but integrating the ecu and sensors into one unit is beneficially done for the manufacturer not the future owners. Cheaper, easier assembly, easier packaging and less wiring. It's not done for the good of the owner. Combine this with incompetent dealership mechanics and short warranty periods for motorcycles compared to the car world and there's room for concern. 
My V11 sport which has only done 42,000klm has had the ecu replaced (recently by me) for a failed baro sensor which is not that uncommon and has happened enough for there to be "home ecu repair" information on it for those with the abilities to carry out ecu disassembly and micro soldering. The previous 16M ecu had the baro sensor separate and easily replaceable. On the same bike I've re bushed and replaced the seals on the throttle body shafts ( a task I've done on 2 other Guzzi throttle bodies now) and they are good for about 50,000klms before shaft bushing wear starts affecting the low speed running and idle.
It's not an objection to technology for many it's an objection to integrating technology in a manner that's a risk for the owner in the medium to long term future. I know many people that stick to older vehicles because of this very concern and they aren't fools and luddites with regards to engineering skills believe me. What they are is smart enough to read the "tea leaves" with regards to future potential grief when "that's life" happens.
I love advancements in technology, bring it on I say but be aware who's the ultimate beneficiary, the owner or the manufacturer. Not really an issue for those that turn their vehicles over every 3-5 years but for those without access to a convenient technically competent dealer or are the "keeper type" it's worth considering the "modularisation" of the componentry.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 02:52:15 PM by lucky phil »
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