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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: leafman60 on January 15, 2015, 07:46:11 AM

Title: Griso ABS
Post by: leafman60 on January 15, 2015, 07:46:11 AM
Do any of the Griso models come with ABS? What about the 2015 models?

Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: smdl on January 15, 2015, 07:58:56 AM
Current models do not, but it will be a requirement in Europe next year.  The local dealer tells me that Piaggio is adapting a very small ABS pump (Aprilia-based) for use on the Griso.

Cheers,
Shaun
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pauldaytona on January 15, 2015, 08:31:23 AM
not on 2015 models
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Nic in Western NYS on January 15, 2015, 12:58:31 PM
not on 2015 models
File under the heading "How not to be competitive in the marketplace"
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on January 15, 2015, 02:33:22 PM
It doesn't really matter how small the pump is. There's still nowhere to put it unless they hang it out the front of the sump.

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pauldaytona on January 15, 2015, 03:37:14 PM
or they put in a lipo4 battery
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: bad Chad on January 15, 2015, 03:51:18 PM
The Griso and big block Breva where spawned at the same time, and the Breva was set to go with ABS from the get go.  Because they where born brothers, I have to assume that the engineers forsaw the day the Griso would need ABS, and thus had a plan for it.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pauldaytona on January 15, 2015, 04:16:33 PM
The griso and breva were designed in 2003, ABS was't a big thing for anything other then big touring bikes.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Mark111 on January 15, 2015, 09:24:29 PM
From my perspective ABS would be nice to have but is not essential and the lack of it will never impact the sales of this bike whilst it is available.
 
As Pete said there is nowhere to install the parts, you only have enough room on the thing to store a packet of gum.
Before it could be added there will need to be a major redesign and this is only likely if they bring out a totally new version.
Also for those who are going to buy a Griso I don't believe this would make jot of difference, as if you are buying a Griso it is because you want one irrespective of any failings or perceived limitations.
There are 50 other bikes out there with greater technology if that is your main requirement but none of them will ever be a Griso. (I know this sounds a bit wanky but that is how it is)
This is based on my experience as an owner of 2 Griso's and someone who has spoken to and associated with many other owners of this wonderful machine.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on January 15, 2015, 09:39:48 PM
And Mark is keen. His warranty claim for a roller top end was knocked back because the original owner was never given books and there was no official record of service. Sucks I know but I tried. ??? Luckily I've been able to source a kit for him for about half what they retail for here so at least it won't be cripplingly expensive!

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: bad Chad on January 15, 2015, 10:19:39 PM
The griso and breva were designed in 2003, ABS was't a big thing for anything other then big touring bikes.

Maybe so, maybe not.  But the Breva, a standard that makes a great road bike, but I wouldn't call it a "big touring bike" was engineered with ABS.  To think that they never considered it for the Griso, is in my opinion naive.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Bill Hagan on January 16, 2015, 07:46:40 AM
From my perspective ABS would be nice to have but is not essential and the lack of it will never impact the sales of this bike whilst it is available.
 
****

Also for those who are going to buy a Griso I don't believe this would make jot of difference, as if you are buying a Griso it is because you want one irrespective of any failings or perceived limitations.
There are 50 other bikes out there with greater technology if that is your main requirement but none of them will ever be a Griso. (I know this sounds a bit wanky but that is how it is)

****


From my perspective, that is not naiveté, but reality.  It's all about lust.  Even at my age, still works for me.  [No, I'll likely not mention this thread to Kathi, lest she see that and make some hurtful comment.   :D]

Bill
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 16, 2015, 10:55:43 AM
From my perspective, that is not naiveté, but reality.  It's all about lust.  Even at my age, still works for me.  [No, I'll likely not mention this thread to Kathi, lest she see that and make some hurtful comment.   :D]

Bill


Absolutely. The kid has a Grease O, and says nothing else does if for him. However, he was slumming in the new Ducati shop and saw a MV Brutale dragster... and is at least thinking about a dalliance.  ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pebra on March 07, 2015, 04:40:11 PM
I got the Guzzi 2015 catalogue at an exhibition today.
It says the Griso 1200 8V SE has ABS.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 07, 2015, 04:49:37 PM
The catalog is wrong.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: sib on March 07, 2015, 05:14:21 PM
The catalog is wrong.
It's not wrong, it just refers to a different model year.  What is called a 2015 model in most of the world will be marketed as a 2016 model in the USA.  The world 2015 models haven't arrived in the USA yet.  When they do, they'll have ABS.  Moreover, if by 2016 the Griso doesn't have ABS, it will not be allowed to be sold in Europe.  For that reason alone, all European bikes above 250 cc will have ABS, even the crotch rockets aimed at 20-somethings who think they're immortal.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pauldaytona on March 07, 2015, 05:22:08 PM
you are counting wrong way, If model 2016 in europe has abs, then model 2017 in the usa will have it. The 2015 europe model does not have abs.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 07, 2015, 05:50:30 PM
Behold! And before you ask the EU version is exactly the same.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7641/16127207443_8d0c8cddae_z.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8618/16559766740_a2fd75da44_z.jpg)

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: sib on March 07, 2015, 06:32:38 PM
you are counting wrong way, If model 2016 in europe has abs, then model 2017 in the usa will have it. The 2015 europe model does not have abs.
Fair enough, but whatever the model year is called, all "new" motorcycles sold in Europe starting January 1, 2016 will have to have ABS.  There is some wiggle room for bikes not considered to be "new": they will have an extra year to comply, so there is a chance the Griso will be able to wait until January 1, 2017.  And, I was inaccurate about the minimum displacement triggering mandatory ABS.  Although the initial proposal was for above 250 cc, in the final rule it's 125 cc.  Smaller bikes must have either ABS or "combined" braking.

From what I can determine from the parts catalog and other info for for the V7II models, they use a Continental MK 100 MAB ABS unit, which weighs about 600 g (1.3 pound) and can be disabled by simply removing the fuse.  Things might be different for the Griso, especially if there are space constraints.  The law was first discussed in 2010 and voted in in late 2012, so presumably the manufacturers have figured out how to comply with it by now.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: dan407 on March 07, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
I got the Guzzi 2015 catalogue at an exhibition today.
It says the Griso 1200 8V SE has ABS.


Pete's right.
I went to Daytona today and picked up the 2015 brochure.
I can't find any reference in the brochure that the Griso 1200 8V SE has ABS.

By the way, the MG display and demo bikes are in the back of the Speedway.
They have about 10 Californias and 2 V7s that you can take demo rides on.
The MG representative said they were busy and all the bikes were going out with each demo ride.
Great to see that people are interested in MG.

From the front of the Speedway you can take a tram shuttle (near the HD display area) to get to the demo bike section.

MG  has a nice first class display with bikes you can sit on.
They have the new for 2015 Eldorado and a Audace.

Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 07, 2015, 07:49:01 PM
Fair enough, but whatever the model year is called, all "new" motorcycles sold in Europe starting January 1, 2016 will have to have ABS.  There is some wiggle room for bikes not considered to be "new": they will have an extra year to comply, so there is a chance the Griso will be able to wait until January 1, 2017.  And, I was inaccurate about the minimum displacement triggering mandatory ABS.  Although the initial proposal was for above 250 cc, in the final rule it's 125 cc.  Smaller bikes must have either ABS or "combined" braking.

From what I can determine from the parts catalog and other info for for the V7II models, they use a Continental MK 100 MAB ABS unit, which weighs about 600 g (1.3 pound) and can be disabled by simply removing the fuse.  Things might be different for the Griso, especially if there are space constraints.  The law was first discussed in 2010 and voted in in late 2012, so presumably the manufacturers have figured out how to comply with it by now.

No I'm not disputing the mandated requirement for ABS, simply saying that the '15MY bikes don't have it and I fear that the requirement may spell the death knell for the Griso. There simply isn't anywhere to put the pump, believe me, everything is already squished in so tight you can barely get a finger in anywhere and there is no fuel capacity to loose. Hopefully y they'll manage some sort of makeover and will be able to find somewhere to stick the pump but I'm buggered if I know where it'll be? Perhaps if they relocate the oil cooler they could mount the pump where the cooler housing is?

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Yeahoo Whoyah on March 07, 2015, 07:54:55 PM
Quote
the requirement may spell the death knell for the Griso.

I've been lurking around over at the Griso Ghetto and that seems to be the prevailing opinion, the Griso is a goner after this model year. 
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 07, 2015, 09:07:46 PM
If it isn't discontinued it'll need major changes to be compliant.

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pebra on March 08, 2015, 05:23:16 AM
Seems there must be an error in the Norwegian catalogue then. Not that that's unlikely....
I'll get in touch with the importer.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: sib on March 08, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
Maybe some clever engineer will figure out a way to incorporate the ABS stuff into the calipers.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 08, 2015, 04:47:59 PM
I hope that's a joke.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: rocker59 on March 08, 2015, 04:54:33 PM
No I'm not disputing the mandated requirement for ABS, simply saying that the '15MY bikes don't have it and I fear that the requirement may spell the death knell for the Griso. There simply isn't anywhere to put the pump, believe me, everything is already squished in so tight you can barely get a finger in anywhere and there is no fuel capacity to loose. Hopefully y they'll manage some sort of makeover and will be able to find somewhere to stick the pump but I'm buggered if I know where it'll be? Perhaps if they relocate the oil cooler they could mount the pump where the cooler housing is?

Pete

Since the Griso is long in the tooth, and due for replacement, I tend to agree that there may never be an ABS Griso. 

Unless the name is applied to a new platform.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: lucydad on March 08, 2015, 05:30:00 PM
Just maybe, perhaps the boys in Mandello will release a new bike:  total redesign, brilliant, and beautiful with ABS and modern fueling, and around 100 hp, and no more than 450 pounds?  Could happen.  But the patience required in the USA is beyond my timeframe.  The Bellagio would work great, if ABS added.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 08, 2015, 06:06:53 PM
450lbs isn't possible with the current motive unit, really, it isn't. To think otherwise is pure fantasy.

I'd be overjoyed to see a 'Next Generation' Griso as long as it retains some character and doesn't end up as bland and soul-less as the Cappo 1200.

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: sib on March 09, 2015, 07:21:03 AM
I hope that's a joke.
Well, they thought it was a joke when someone proposed to make a computer that would fit into your shirt pocket, connect to the internet, run all day on a battery, have no typing keys, take pictures, play music, play movies, find where you are and map your route, and also make phone calls.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: kirb on March 09, 2015, 08:12:18 AM
Piaggio has some 'interesting' ways of complying with regs...
The location of the carbon can on some models (like Griso) for one.
The horrible Stelvio USA mirrors for another.

It is possible to outfit a Griso with ABS, but they are going to have tweak a lot of things to get it to fit somewhere. I'm sure it can be done. Griso fills a large gap in the line for it to 'go away' without a replacement.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: molly on March 09, 2015, 08:28:52 AM
I'm sure the Griso name isn't dead yet. I would welcome a slightly larger version with optional cast wheels and nose fairing. The 1200 Sport is finished so a ABS Griso with a bit more long distance potentional wouldn't go a miss.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: rocker59 on March 09, 2015, 09:07:54 AM
What would you like to have "larger" in a Griso?  Other than fuel tank capacity, my wish would be for things to be "smaller".

Mainly smaller wheelbase and smaller weight.  

As for "optional cast wheels", you have the option of sourcing cast wheels from the Norge/Breva/early Griso and bolting them right on.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: rboe on March 09, 2015, 12:43:14 PM
A strong argument could be made that the Griso is due, if not over due, for a make over. Taking that opportunity to add ABS to a next generation Griso makes sense (or making ABS mandatory a good excuse to come out with the next major redo for the Griso).

I guess it will be up to the market if that second generation Griso fills the shoes of the first. Or would this be the third generation? I guess that depends on how radical the redo is. If it is really different; drop the Griso name and come up with a new model.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: not-fishing on March 09, 2015, 01:09:00 PM
I'm just a simple construction worker but the thought hit me;  Where does the Stelvio NTX have the ABS pump?

Couldn't a little redesign of the airbox provide the room in the Griso?

Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: twhitaker on March 09, 2015, 02:17:55 PM
Quote
Or would this be the third generation?

Not sure which generation it would be but I believe there is a Centauro in the first generation.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: kirb on March 09, 2015, 03:39:47 PM
I'm just a simple construction worker but the thought hit me;  Where does the Stelvio NTX have the ABS pump?
Couldn't a little redesign of the airbox provide the room in the Griso?

The pump is under the fuel tank on the Stelvio. The tank design is slightly different on the Griso and there isn't much room under there. The frames of both bikes are very similar, but the tank is not.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pauldaytona on March 09, 2015, 04:21:14 PM
Sure you can mount an abs somewhere but not invisible without redesign.

The Stelvio has ecu and electrics tucked in the fairing. These parts have found a place somewhere else in the griso.  Where the griso has the ecu, is the stelvio ABS.  The ABS unit is about 3 inches square. 
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: beetle on March 09, 2015, 04:42:40 PM
Put the pump where the alternator is and add a wet alternator. Tee hee. :D
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: guzziownr on March 09, 2015, 04:43:32 PM
The Stelvio has ecu and electrics tucked in the fairing. These parts have found a place somewhere else in the griso.  Where the griso has the ecu, is the stelvio ABS.  The ABS unit is about 3 inches square.

Here is my design brief:

Stick the horns out in the breeze and reshape the wings to accommodate the ABS.  

Piaggio can send me a check at the usual address or Paypal is fine...
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: pauldaytona on March 09, 2015, 04:44:48 PM
Put the pump where the alternator is and add a wet alternator. Tee hee. :D

 yes that cn, but now they have same engine for norge/stelvio/griso thats to easy in factory.
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: Vasco DG on March 09, 2015, 05:25:04 PM
Put the pump where the alternator is and add a wet alternator. Tee hee. :D

And then the red Suspender brigade will piss and moan because it doesn't have enough current to run a cardio thoracic emergency ward!

Pete
Title: Re: Griso ABS
Post by: rboe on March 09, 2015, 06:35:08 PM
They could put it where the Stelvio has it and redesign the tank. This could be good or bad.