Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: steven c on March 15, 2016, 07:23:12 PM
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https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2016/03/15/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-review-10-quick-facts/
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Finally :bike-037: Thanks Steven .
Dusty
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Steven,
Thanks for the find. Subsequent reviews will be interesting. I wonder if Houston, TEXAS will ever see a V9?
Sucks that I would have to go to Dallas or Austin to see one.
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Not very informative, but it's something.
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Must be comparing the clutch to the V7 and not the V7II? I wouldn't mind the higher handlebars on my V7II but they might need longer cables?
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What strikes me is the squat, knees up riding position, and how the knees extend over the sharp lines of the tank. Not sure how comfy that would be...
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Thanks!
Some clip:
Around the lake with the V9 Bobber (Italian).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsT3tzsNV_Y
Around the bike and the engine (French).
http://www.moto-station.com/article107302-essai-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer-en-direct.html
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What strikes me is the squat, knees up riding position, and how the knees extend over the sharp lines of the tank. Not sure how comfy that would be...
Of course, each rider's inseam is different but eVery picture I've seen with someone aboard a Bob or Roamer, then comparing it to pictures of folks aboard the V7, it is clear to be more of a cruiser with, yes, knees in a different position. Importantly, however, is that it doesn't appear knees are higher than hips, or at least from what I've seen.
As with almost all Guzzis - I can't say this about a great many other brands - but the bike on the video is sharper in person than in pictures even. Very nice.
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What strikes me is the squat, knees up riding position, and how the knees extend over the sharp lines of the tank. Not sure how comfy that would be...
For all intents and purposes is the riding position really all that different from the other current smallblocks?
V9 Roamer
(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer-10-quick-facts-3.jpg)
V7 Stone
(http://images.mcn.bauercdn.com/PageFiles/519353/1752x1168/AS3Y0420_preview.jpg?mode=max&quality=90&scale=down)
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/201403/moto-guzzi-v7-stone-5w.jpg)
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It seems that the riding position essentially depends from how far from the tank you decide to seat.
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Looks tiny. Is it smaller than an 850-T3?
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That classic Guzzi tank on the V7 is much better looking.
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sounds like a nice bike and an upgrade to the V7.
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i see the bobber comes with a 16" front wheel.... is that to show remind us how bad the 850-t5 was :violent1:
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i see the bobber comes with a 16" front wheel.... is that to show remind us how bad the 850-t5 was :violent1:
Different thang, altogether. The Bobber has the Harley/Cruiser 130/90-16 front. Pretty common in the cruiser world, and not an oddball like the 16s from the 1980s.
Bobber and Roamer both are running 16s in the back, too.
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i see the bobber comes with a 16" front wheel.... is that to show remind us how bad the 850-t5 was :violent1:
It's more appropriate to remember the Lario and how the 16" front on it wasn't bad at all.
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Part of how a 16" front tire feels is the profile of the tire. My LM IV had a 120/80-16 front tire which was kind of twitchy, so I put on a 110/90 and it was fine. My CX100 had a 100/90-18 front tire and I liked the 16" front on the LM IV so much I put a 110/90-16 on the CX and liked it better(quicker turn in). I like 16" tires, front or rear. :thumb:
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My Ducati 750 Paso had 16's front and rear, handled fine.
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The wheel base and length of the bikes are slightly longer than their 750 cousins.
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It's thanks to the slightly longer swingharm.
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Nice little bullet-statement style of review.
I like this in an initial observation rather than getting caught up in the two things which wear my literary behind out in product reviews for all things guy.
1. Form: Trying to hit on any of the most recent tech-speak whether it applies or not and filling the review with clumsily inserted cleverness.
2. Function: Telling the reader what the product is not in continual comparisons, solicited by the manufacturer or not.
This one gave me one man's sense of the bike much in the manner of us talking over a gas pump, This, rather than him writing a sample for his next résumé or pumping a pet product which is not actually being reviewed in straw-man comparisons.
Thanks for the link and I got a lot out of it. Spurtster's in further peril for it.
Todd.
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Yeah...the prediction on cycle ergos website was that it would be a more relaxed hip angle but I don't see that at all. Put the chick on the bottom photo on the V9 and see what we see. Her hip angle is quite relaxed on the V7.
For all intents and purposes is the riding position really all that different from the other current smallblocks?
V9 Roamer
(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer-10-quick-facts-3.jpg)
V7 Stone
(http://images.mcn.bauercdn.com/PageFiles/519353/1752x1168/AS3Y0420_preview.jpg?mode=max&quality=90&scale=down)
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/201403/moto-guzzi-v7-stone-5w.jpg)
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Put the chick on the bottom photo on the V9 and see what we see. Her hip angle is quite relaxed on the V7.
She's also about 4'-10"...
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/201403/moto-guzzi-v7-stone-5w.jpg)
Here's me on mine. 5'-10"
(https://rocker59.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/2015-August-8-V7-Special/i-Q5fzb7k/2/L/DSC_1182-L.jpg)
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Looks like I would be fine at 5'8" (generous measurement)
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Yeah...the prediction on cycle ergos website was that it would be a more relaxed hip angle but I don't see that at all. Put the chick on the bottom photo on the V9 and see what we see. Her hip angle is quite relaxed on the V7.
FWIW:
Cycle ergo : V7ii: 82 degrees; V9: 86 degrees.
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Visordown weighs in:
http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-moto-guzzi-v9-review/31001.html
Interesting picture starts to form of handling that perhaps not that of a canyon carver. Not a surprise. But this review hints a something a little dysfunctional in the design. They seem to love the motor, though.
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Must be comparing the clutch to the V7 and not the V7II? I wouldn't mind the higher handlebars on my V7II but they might need longer cables?
Me too, are the scramblers some shops build fitted with higher bars if so maybe the cables would work. I'm not too worried about control cables but would be reluctant to mess with electrical cables to switches. Steve.
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Interesting picture starts to form of handling that perhaps not that of a canyon carver.
no kidding...
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Like I said, no surprise. What's more concerning is the accumulation of reports that there's something funny (queer, not ha ha), about the overall handling.
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Like I said, no surprise. What's more concerning is the accumulation of reports that there's something funny (queer, not ha ha), about the overall handling.
These testers are stepping off of modern sporty bikes and riding these basic retros, then finding the handling odd and lacking.
No surprise there.
I find the same thing with my V7 Special's handling. It's shite compared to my Sport 1100, and SHITE compared to a modern naked or sporty bike.
But, ridden within its envelope, it's very enjoyable. The other night I had to stop by my office for something. I chose to hop on the V7 Special and run surface streets the 15 miles up to the office, and back. Lovely evening ride at suburban speeds of 35-50. My Sport 1100 would've been a chore on the same ride.
I don't really think there is a "problem" with the V9's handling, so much as there is an expectations and perception problem from the lackeys who are "reporting".
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THe V9 seems to be a nice motorcycle .....nice.....is the operative word here, its built to a price and a purpose and it seems that Guzzi has done a good job of it .. I think if you start comparing it to motorcycles that excel in performance as in handling and HP your being unfair to the V9, and you have to justify the money spent ..you get what you pay for ..
oh and both of these reviews so far are IMO .. lame
:wink:
My thoughts
Keener
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I don't think there's any tale tale signs here of a so called "problem" with suspension and handling. The biggest problem is the stakes are higher now. In these folks' minds these bikes are "supposed" to handle with or compete against the Duc Scrambler, that hideous new retro Yammer with the stonking triple engine, the Bonnie that had its own team of engineers and years to coax out a new one. As the one review - and even the MG guy himself notes - they have always made these retro bikes and aren't gonna go and try to reinvent the wheel just because mustaches and open face helmets are fashionable again. Seems like MG has always moved at their own pace that is somewhat behind the market. They've upgraded the engine and made some nice styling touches. I can't say I would have expected more. I'm sure the 850 engine will appear next year in the old standard V7 mold.
Rocker is dead on about the V7s handling. It's great if you play within its envelope. My Griso is in some kind of other league wtih regard to this. But I can't bitch about the V7 I owned lacking that kind of handling. You want the V7 to compete with these bikes, stop whining about them, stop throwing money and money at suspension, and instead go back to school yourself. Figure out how to be a safer, faster, better rider yourself with the bike you are on. That would be my advice. That nobody is taking, I'm sure :thumb: :boozing:
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Wish they could make a proper bike for real men (6' 2" tall). :thewife:
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My Griso is in some kind of other league wtih regard to this. But I can't bitch about the V7 I owned lacking that kind of handling. You want the V7 to compete with these bikes, stop whining about them, stop throwing money and money at suspension, and instead go back to school yourself. Figure out how to be a safer, faster, better rider yourself with the bike you are on. That would be my advice. That nobody is taking, I'm sure :thumb: :boozing:
Yeah. It's real easy to make an $8000 V7 handle like at $13000 Griso !!!
Just throw $5000 at the suspension/wheels/brakes !!! :evil:
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These testers are stepping off of modern sporty bikes and riding these basic retros, then finding the handling odd and lacking.
No surprise there.
I find the same thing with my V7 Special's handling. It's shite compared to my Sport 1100, and SHITE compared to a modern naked or sporty bike.
When I go from riding my Ducati Monster 796 to one of the V7's, yes, the handling feels, well, primitive. But, that is what makes them enjoyable.
I rode my V7 Special for the first time in a couple months on Wednesday. It was very foggy in the morning, so, I had driven the car to and from work, but, 65 degrees and sunny, and the salt finally gone (sadly will be back on Sunday), I had to get it out.
I really enjoyed the ride. Unlike the Ducati, or even my BMW F800GT, I get less annoyed when I come up behind vehicles going at a less fun pace. The V7, while fun to ride briskly, is also fun and engaging at slower speeds, where the Ducati is like a race horse chomping at it the bit. That's not to say that the V7 can't be ridden fast. It can safely handle any curve around here at 10-15 MPH higher than the marked "warning" speed.
As has been stated many times on other V7 threads. Either you get it, or you don't get it.
I'm sure that the V9 experience will be much the same.
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We all get it, that's why we're here.
In fairness to these moto-journalists, they have to write for different audiences. They have to describe the V9 to folks who are likely to get it, and those who won't, and provide a fair description to each.
I guess what I'm really eager for is someone on this Board -- someone who speaka-the-language -- to ride and report. And that will happen soon enough.
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I'll ask about a test drive when the Norge is picked up for service.
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The Visor down reveiw is obviously flawed. The reviwer has problems with the bike pushig tk the right under heavy revs in N?? Really???
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The twonk who wrote the first one clearly shows his lack of research and knowledge by stating that the V9's "Retain the two joint driveshaft'. This is completely new on the smallblock design and is the very reason for the redesigned swingarm but obviously finding such stuff out isn't important to a 'Reviewer'.
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I was a little confused by one of his statements. Taken from the article:
"5. The Roamer and the Bobber are decidedly different in character. The Roamer has lots of chrome, classic colors, a 100/90-19 front tire and pull-back high handlebars. The Bobber has little chrome, mostly flat black and subdued shades, a 130/90-16 front bun and drag-style black handlebars.
6. Personally, I preferred the Bobber as I liked the heft and response of the larger front tire. It felt more planted to me. I also found that while the Bobber’s flat bars would appear to cause the rider to tuck into a more forward position the use of a much taller pair of bar risers resulted in about the same, all-day comfortable riding position."
He says the Bobber has a 130/90-16 front tire, and prefers it over the roamer because of the larger front tire (which he says has a 100/90-19). 16 is now larger than 19???
Ken
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Width Ken , width .
Dusty
Ahhh, that's something I know nothing about. Please don't ask for details!
Wish he would've said wider and not larger, but I guess there's more than one way to determine which way a tire is larger.
Ken
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Motorcycle.com has a pretty decent/informative review:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-and-v9-roamer-first-ride-review.html
I'm not sure anyone has yet mentioned that the fenders are steel and the sidecovers are aluminum. Nice touches.
It also mentions how wide the torque band is > 44 ft lbs from 2500 on.
Oh and that the head design is easier to cool and less prone to detonation.
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Motorcycle.com has a pretty decent/informative review:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-and-v9-roamer-first-ride-review.html
I'm not sure anyone has yet mentioned that the fenders are steel and the sidecovers are aluminum. Nice touches.
It also mentions how wide the torque band is > 44 ft lbs from 2500 on.
Oh and that the head design is easier to cool and less prone to detonation.
Nice review
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Motorcycle.com has a pretty decent/informative review:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-and-v9-roamer-first-ride-review.html
I'm not sure anyone has yet mentioned that the fenders are steel and the sidecovers are aluminum. Nice touches.
It also mentions how wide the torque band is > 44 ft lbs from 2500 on.
Oh and that the head design is easier to cool and less prone to detonation.
I like this review. For better/worse it's also the first review I've read that doesn't dwell upon nor even mention the recent Retro craze nor mention comparisons to Triumphs, Ducs, etc.
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Speaking of handling, the larios 16 X 16 wheels (when front-end is dropped down) is an amazing handling bike. It's actually suggested to drop down about 10mm if memory serves me correctly, but I've found if dropped until the sump is level (same with Sport 1100's) it's like it's on rails it's so stable feeling yet quick to lean. I can't imagine a 19 in the front having any sort of good turn-in as the ass is so low. Drop these guys through the yokes and you should have some fun in the twisties.., especially the 16 x16.
My two pennies on experiences with sb front-ends.
K
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I'm really glad I have my V7 and have no intention of it going anywhere.
But I have to admit the V9 is growing on me. I could see a Bobber or, better yet, a V9 Stone to keep it company someday.
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great review from MC on what appears to be a pretty nice bike...good on Guzzi ,this may be a game changer for them..
i hope there is more to come...
:azn:
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good on Guzzi ,this may be a game changer for them..
:azn:
That was my thought as well. A glowing review like this from Kevin Duke could mean a major sales boost, maybe.
The riding position on the Bobber looks quite fun, while the Roamer may be more all day comfortable.
Description of rear shocks sounds exactly like the V7 -- adequate until you hit a big bump.
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Agreed, a fine review. And that Guzzi could deliver at this price point bodes very well. Looks like a winner.
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I did not see this mentioned in the reviews, but hopefully there is either a low-fuel idiot light or a reserve-fuel petcock. Otherwise, I would risk riding one until it ran out of fuel. (Apparently there is no fuel gauge.)
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I did not see this mentioned in the reviews, but hopefully there is either a low-fuel idiot light or a reserve-fuel petcock. Otherwise, I would risk riding one until it ran out of fuel. (Apparently there is no fuel gauge.)
I don't think I've ever seen an EFI bike without at least a low fuel light, though some also have gauges.
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I like "proudly air cooled" without the complications of oil or water radiators and still able to meet stringent emissions requirements; but I love my two large analog dials on my V7II. Are analog tachometers going away like center stands?
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http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-moto-guzzi-v9-review/31001.html
Not entirely positive but then I find this particular mag only ever criticizes low volume producers and doesn't really 'get' practical, low tech bikes that you can easily maintain yourself for a 100,000 + miles.
I like the look of the v9 but I'd personally like this engine in a standard frame with a 22+ liter tank.
Does anyone know what the advantage of the double cardigan drive will be?
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but I love my two large analog dials on my V7II. Are analog tachometers going away like center stands?
I think it largely depends on the style of the bike, but if it's not a classic/retro styled bike then yes I think they largely are.
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Omega1987, FYI. this bike is built on the same frame as the V7.
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http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-moto-guzzi-v9-review/31001.html
Not entirely positive but then I find this particular mag only ever criticizes low volume producers and doesn't really 'get' practical, low tech bikes that you can easily maintain yourself for a 100,000 + miles.
I like the look of the v9 but I'd personally like this engine in a standard frame with a 22+ liter tank.
Does anyone know what the advantage of the double cardigan drive will be?
I skimmed over it.
Questioning the horsepower output of the V9 is fair game but they got hung up again over the longitudinal crank's tendency to make the bike nod sideways when it's revved. They went so far as to say this tried to twist the bike off its wheels when powering out of a curve. Good lord.
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....
Does anyone know what the advantage of the double cardigan drive will be?
From one of the section photos shown in one of the articles, it looks to me they had to double the joint to allow a wide tire.
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I skimmed over it.
Questioning the horsepower output of the V9 is fair game but they got hung up again over the longitudinal crank's tendency to make the bike nod sideways when it's revved. They went so far as to say this tried to twist the bike off its wheels when powering out of a curve. Good lord.
Surely most decent riders know to maintain revs and speed through corners, I can imagine any bike would feel too stable being revved mid corner
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Bikesocial weighs in with another lukewarm review but by far the most lengthy and descriptive one I've read. Still belabors the handling :rolleyes:
http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-bobber-2016---first-ride-review/#.Vu6w7_D3arV
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I like the look of the v9 but I'd personally like this engine in a standard frame with a 22+ liter tank.
It might be worth watching salvage auctions for a light wrecked V9. I could see combing a V9 with a V9 Stone or Special to build a V9 Stone or Special. I'm pretty much thinking V9 engine, frame, swing arm, plus everything else from the V7.
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It might be worth watching salvage auctions for a light wrecked V9. I could see combing a V9 with a V9 Stone or Special to build a V9 Stone or Special. I'm pretty much thinking V9 engine, frame, swing arm, plus everything else from the V7.
Why not just buy a V9 and install a V7 fuel tank?
Or, just wait until MY 2017 and buy one new ?
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Can't wait to see the "V9 LeMans". New engine in an old "Racer" package (without the numbers).
Hell, paint it in the retro 850 LeMans scheme, with a record fairing to match!
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The "bikesocial" test ride has some funny remarks: Since when have the V7 (STB-models) a torque maximum at 5000/min? Below 3000 would be the right data point. And plastic tanks cannot be found at the V7 since at least 2012. I wish those "motor journalists" would begin with some recherche and stop writing nonsense.
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Meanwhile, there had been an official test drive in Mandello for the Guzzi Clan members today.
From the review i read, it seems the suspensions had been vastly improved over the previous small blocks.
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Bikesocial weighs in with another lukewarm review but by far the most lengthy and descriptive one I've read. Still belabors the handling :rolleyes:
http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-bobber-2016---first-ride-review/#.Vu6w7_D3arV
That review strikes me as better than "lukewarm", especially for $10,000 motorcycles.
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I cannot help but believe that the V9 engine will find its way into the other V7 models.
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Also, has anyone seen an independently-done dyno run of the V9?
I have been reading up on the new H-D Street 750 that I test-rode in Daytona. I was favorably impressed with its engine.
Cycle World has put the 60 degree 750 H-D on the dyno and read 58 HP@ 7955 RPM with torque of 43.2 @ 3790 RPM.
Guzzi publishes specs for the V9 of 55 HP @ 6250 RPM, torque of 45.7 @3000 RPM.
Of course, the Guzzi numbers are at the crank and the H-D numbers are at the wheel.
Assuming a 15 percent power loss to the wheel, the Guzzi would need about 68 at the crank to yield 58 HP at the wheel to match the smaller H-D VTwin engine.
The H-D is competitive with the Honda 700 and others.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/04/02/2015-harley-davidson-street-750-versus-competitors-on-cw-dynojet-dyno/
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Then again aren't the numbers on the new Street Twin more like the V9. That might be a more important comparison.
I wish Harley well with their Street, but I'm not a fan of the looks and the bike itself feels cheaper than a smallblock.
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Also, has anyone seen an independently-done dyno run of the V9?
I have been reading up on the new H-D Street 750 that I test-rode in Daytona. I was favorably impressed with its engine.
Cycle World has put the 60 degree 750 H-D on the dyno and read 58 HP@ 7955 RPM with torque of 43.2 @ 3790 RPM.
Guzzi publishes specs for the V9 of 55 HP @ 6250 RPM, torque of 45.7 @3000 RPM.
Of course, the Guzzi numbers are at the crank and the H-D numbers are at the wheel.
Assuming a 15 percent power loss to the wheel, the Guzzi would need about 68 at the crank to yield 58 HP at the wheel to match the smaller H-D VTwin engine.
The H-D is competitive with the Honda 700 and others.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/04/02/2015-harley-davidson-street-750-versus-competitors-on-cw-dynojet-dyno/
And the Harley is what? 50 lbs heavier than the V9 ?
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What Honda 700 are you referring to?? The HD is also liquid cooled. It makes more sense to me, to compare air cooled to air, and vice versa.
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Then again aren't the numbers on the new Street Twin more like the V9. That might be a more important comparison.
I wish Harley well with their Street, but I'm not a fan of the looks and the bike itself feels cheaper than a smallblock.
These are crankshaft but
Guzzi V9 vs. Triumph Sreet Twin
55 hp @ 6250 vs. 55 hp. @ 5900
46 ft. lbs. @ 3000 vs. 59 ft. lbs. @ 3230
Hey LEAF, thanks for that link, I find the Duc 696 vs. Street dyno comparison to be particularly interesting!
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The V9 is growing on me, and the initial reviews have been intriguing. If I were in the market for another bike, it would definitely be in contention. Of the two versions, I prefer the style and riding position of the Roamer. Also, the matte black finish on the exhaust and other parts of the Bobber looks good when brand new, but with some real world dirt, grime and wear, gets tired looking pretty fast.
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And the Harley is what? 50 lbs heavier than the V9 ?
The factory specs say 489 pounds in running order, 455 as shipped.
Best I can find is a weight spec for the V9 of 200KG or 440 pounds. Not sure of that's wet or dry.
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Best I can find is a weight spec for the V9 of 200KG or 440 pounds. Not sure of that's wet or dry.
In working order, but without fuel.
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Why not just buy a V9 and install a V7 fuel tank?
Or, just wait until MY 2017 and buy one new ?
:thumb:
Can't wait to see the "V9 LeMans". New engine in an old "Racer" package (without the numbers).
Hell, paint it in the retro 850 LeMans scheme, with a record fairing to match!
:food:
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Why not just buy a V9 and install a V7 fuel tank?
You know Todd is talking about offering a Guzzitech V9 II built to order with V7 tank and your choice of Guzzitech suspension and other upgrades.
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All this talk about putting the V9 engine in the V7 series bikes is just that. Dave Richardson from Moto International says he has heard NOTHING about such a thing happening, and he's plugged in, no?
Sounds logical TO US, but does Guzzi and logic always go hand in hand?
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All this talk about putting the V9 engine in the V7 series bikes is just that. Dave Richardson from Moto International says he has heard NOTHING about such a thing happening, and he's plugged in, no?
Sounds logical TO US, but does Guzzi and logic always go hand in hand?
He may be plugged in for a US dealer.
But, and I could be wrong, but isn't Dogwalker a LOT more plugged in.
It certainly seems so from everything he's posted over the years.
But bottom line, the V7 is NOT EU4 compliant so we'll know soon enough.
So I'm not saying anything is certain, but the writing does appear to be on the wall. But you're right we won't know till we know.
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But, and I could be wrong, but isn't Dogwalker a LOT more plugged in.
Really not, no more than a dealer for certain.
All that I do is to report voices of those that are plugged in (sometimes an employee, or an employee of a supplier), or to make predictions based on logic.
Simply, for Moto Guzzi, doesn't seem logic to spend money to make the 750 Euro-4 compliant, and then to keep in production two engines so similar, yet different, when just one can cover the whole current range of small block bikes, and possibly some more, at reduced prodction costs (thanks to scale economies).
But Moto Guzzi can do illogical things. :wink:
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Really not, no more than a dealer for certain.
All that I do is to report voices of those that are plugged in (sometimes an employee, or an employee of a supplier), or to make predictions based on logic.
Well, having known a number of US dealers, I'm afraid those voices (of an employee or employee supplier) would tend to be MUCH more plugged in than the average dealer, especially those in the US.
That's not to say some aren't taken into confidence sometimes, but it's not uncommon for us to hear about things here in WG before a US dealer is informed through regulator channels.
So I for one appreciate any tidbits you are able to glean.
Grazie
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having known a number of US dealers, I'm afraid those voices (of an employee or employee supplier) would tend to be MUCH more plugged in than the average dealer, especially those in the US.
:1:
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Anyway, it's simply too early to know what will be presented at EICMA 2016.
Last year, something of the new engine began to leak in Maj, and some dealer saw the new bikes in september.
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You mean WG is RELEVANT Kev :shocked:
Dusty
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MI is not your average dealer, which is the only reason I mentioned it.
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MI is not your average dealer, which is the only reason I mentioned it.
I know that, but at one time neither was MPH or Speakers.
Hell, I remember a Piaggio rep just showing up at the MA rally with sketches of future products (which I believe included something on some Cali 1400 variants years before they were released) but you weren't getting much chatter elsewhere about it. With Piaggio and Guzzi and the US you just never know.
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Peter Jones of Cycleworld likes it. In fact I'd say he's a bit over the moon about it.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/21/2017-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-v9-bobber-cruiser-motorcycle-review-first-ride/
Couple of interesting tidbits from this review: Jones thinks the suspension is actually "just right" (not his exact words). I'm skeptical. I'd be happy if the shocks were something I didn't need to replace before riding home from the dealer.
Also, he says something like "at one point, 57 mpg was achieved." But this may have been only an instantaneous reading? If so, obviously doesn't mean much.
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Wow.
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Peter Jones of Cycleworld likes it. In fact I'd say he's a bit over the moon about it.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/21/2017-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-v9-bobber-cruiser-motorcycle-review-first-ride/
Couple of interesting tidbits from this review: Jones thinks the suspension is actually "just right" (not his exact words). I'm skeptical. I'd be happy if the shocks were something I didn't need to replace before riding home from the dealer.
Also, he says something like "at one point, 57 mpg was achieved." But this may have been only an instantaneous reading? If so, obviously doesn't mean much.
Damn, that's one of the most positive reviews of an MG I've ever read from a major MC publication.
I think he convinced me that I need one...
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I think he likes it. I'm seeing the's as a modern T-3 with a little more style, just a good honest motorcycle.
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"On the roadway, the machines maintained this low-weight feel without giving any unwanted sensation of over-tipping into curves."
What was that weenie in the other pub whining about how it wanted to tip over to the right and fight to get it to lay down to the left?
Weenies...
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That Cycle World review is great!
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That review will make the folks in Mandello smile! It should sell some bikes.
:boozing:
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All this talk about putting the V9 engine in the V7 series bikes is just that. Dave Richardson from Moto International says he has heard NOTHING about such a thing happening, and he's plugged in, no?
Sounds logical TO US, but does Guzzi and logic always go hand in hand?
Fair enough, but the V7 variants are 50% of Guzzi sales. Unless the current V9 models sell in a VERY big way, I can't see Guzzi being able to drop V7s in 2017, which is what they'll have to do per European emissions standards.
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^ According to one of the recent reviews, from a reviewer who was there in Italy listening to MG talk about the V9 and who got to ride it, MG is supposed to be coming out with a detuned version of the V9 a little later this year. Why would they do that when they have the V7 II?
Since the V9 uses the same basic frame as the V7 II, and since the V9 motor and transmission are more up-to-date than the V7 II motor and transmission, I like to think that MG will switch over entirely to the new V9 platform and drop the V7 II, with many different flavors available, not just the current Roamer and Bobber, but also with a beginner's version, a standard version, a scrambler version, and a cafe racer version. Oh, and most of them will have regular-sized wheels and horizontal top tubes!
But that is just my wishful thinking. ;)
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And what review would that be???
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^ http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-bobber-2016---first-ride-review/#.VvM9S_pHaK2
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The V7 motor can't comply with EU4 emissions standards, and since Europe is the biggest Guzzi market, it's dead. I used to to think that the popularity of the V7 would mean that we'd see a V9 Stone /Special/Racer line in a of couple of years. I no longer do. I think they're history. Guzzi will expand the V9 line, and probably the 1400s as well, but I think they'll retire the V7 to an honorable and successful place in their lineage, but will move on. As they should.
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^ According to one of the recent reviews, from a reviewer who was there in Italy listening to MG talk about the V9 and who got to ride it, MG is supposed to be coming out with a detuned version of the V9 a little later this year. Why would they do that when they have the V7 II?
for tiered licensing in Europe.
A learner V9 is a pretty good indicator that the V7s are done.
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Oh, and most of them will have regular-sized wheels and horizontal top tubes!
If they dropped the 19" front to 18", and put another 18 on the rear instead of the goofy 16, that top tube wd be pretty close to horizontal, as it should be.
Give them the Alpina system, too, so we'd have tubeless spoked wheels, lookin Sweet! Boranni small flange alloy rims and stainless straight-pull spokes, mmm...
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^ According to one of the recent reviews, from a reviewer who was there in Italy listening to MG talk about the V9 and who got to ride it, MG is supposed to be coming out with a detuned version of the V9 a little later this year. Why would they do that when they have the V7 II?
Cause the bike, as is, is too powerful to be driven by newly licenced drivers in EU.
To sell a detuned version is common practice here (IE, there is a detuned version of the Ducati Scrambler 800, even if there is the 400 version too). The advantage of the detuned versions is that they can be retuned to the original specs, when the driver acquires enough experience, or first to sell the bike.
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Guzzi will never drop the V7 line, as long as it sells.
The only question is if they'll take advantage of the mandatory Euro-4 to renew it with the V9 engine (there will be no need to even change the name. Moto Guzzi already produced 850cc "V7"), or they'll make the 750cc Euro-4 compliant, and wait a couple of years more to use the 850 on that line.
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Guzzi will never drop the V7 line, as long as it sells.
The only question is if they'll take advantage of the mandatory Euro-4 to renew it with the V9 engine (there will be no need to even change the name. Moto Guzzi already produced 850cc "V7"), or they'll make the 750cc Euro-4 compliant, and wait a couple of years more to use the 850 on that line.
I thought the learner requirements were now such that "detuned" wasn't good enough; that they don't want it to be easy to return to full power.
I would think that a learner compliant V9 based bike would be the new V9 engine with a smaller bore, and a displacement of 750, or maybe even a little less.
I would hope that we would get the 850cc engine in our V7 replacements.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVNok7obko
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Great scenery....not much of a review
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Uh. I guess this is a review from Motorcycle Cruiser.
:undecided: :shocked:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer-tested
One paragraph saying the Roamer is the long distance machine and will take you "far" then the very next paragraph saying he likes the Bobber better because he could drive it longer in comfort but doesn't say why.
Oh well. At least glad to see the bikes getting some mostly good press from the cruiser segment.
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All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another. I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed. Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler). Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate? Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.
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All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another. I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed. Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler). Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate? Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.
Maybe a test ride on the V9 will change your mind, yeah never know time marches on ................... .
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All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another. I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed. Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler). Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate? Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.
V9 supposedly has better design for cooling, larger flywheel, new improved bevel gear, and the list goes on. And it's competitive in price with the V7.
But I hear ya. I've owned a V7, and now that I'm thinking about getting another Guzzi, the V7 still looks very good to me. Do I need a faster Guzzi? No, not really, the V7 was fast enough. I like the look of the Roamer except that, as others have pointed out, the forks look like chopsticks framing the fat front tire. The V7 looks more proportional front to back.
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All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another. I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed. Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler). Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate? Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.
Yes I think you're nuts.
Why wouldn't an 853cc V9 Stone or Special with the same bodywork as the current V7II (except possibly all in metal) be just as good or better than the current V7II?
I mean, it's not like they have to use the instrument cluster, tank, or even controls of the Roamer/Bobber on a V9 Stone/Special/Racer ??? So what's the hesitation?
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I can see Guzzi doing exactly what Triumph did with it's Bonnie line. Same engine block in both, the T120 and the 900 twin, except the 900 has a shorter stroke.
So musings of a detuned V9 motor (via a smaller stroke) make complete sense, and I'll bet is the route Guzzi will go.
Economies of scare is the name of the game in achieving better profitability!
However, this would probably mean that the next iteration of the V7 might gain weight (heavier block), but probably not anymore power, which really does make a good case for grabbing one of the older V7IIs, if that's what you like.
Speculating is fun, can't wait to see what comes of it. :laugh:
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However, this would probably mean that the next iteration of the V7 might gain weight (heavier block), but probably not anymore power, which really does make a good case for grabbing one of the older V7IIs, if that's what you like.
But indications are that the V9 hasn't gained any weight over the V7, despite having all metal fenders and sidecovers, and the new block etc.
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Yes I think you're nuts.
Why wouldn't an 853cc V9 Stone or Special with the same bodywork as the current V7II (except possibly all in metal) be just as good or better than the current V7II?
I mean, it's not like they have to use the instrument cluster, tank, or even controls of the Roamer/Bobber on a V9 Stone/Special/Racer ??? So what's the hesitation?
This ^^
Why does Guzzi need a 750 when they have a new 850?? Why de-tune it here in the states? The 850 is still less ponies than most Jap 650's so no need to lessen the pull. The 850 should easily fill the 750 niche with bumped horses. It's not like it's a big difference guys, but updated yes. Get over the 750 thing vs. massive 850. It's not a big deal, but it's necessary. I say 750 is toast soon. Good move for Guzzi if they offer some resemblance of the V7 line with this new mille. Im not a fan of the V9's.
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I can see Guzzi doing exactly what Triumph did with it's Bonnie line. Same engine block in both, the T120 and the 900 twin, except the 900 has a shorter stroke.
So musings of a detuned V9 motor (via a smaller stroke) make complete sense, and I'll bet is the route Guzzi will go.
Economies of scare is the name of the game in achieving better profitability!
However, this would probably mean that the next iteration of the V7 might gain weight (heavier block), but probably not anymore power, which really does make a good case for grabbing one of the older V7IIs, if that's what you like.
The V9 engine is two kg (4.4 pound) heavier than the 750. The difference is only 1% of the weight of the bike.
An eventual shorter stroke V9, 750 with hemi heads (that I don't think they'll do), will likely have about the same power than the 850 (being able to rev higher) but with less torque.
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The V9 engine is two kg (4.4 pound) heavier than the 750. The difference is only 1% of the weight of the bike.
An eventual shorter stroke V9, 750 with hemi heads,(that I don't think they'll do), will likely have about the same power than the 850 (being able to rev higher) but with less torque.
That's awesome then. That's gotta be the route guzzi is going. It's the only thing that makes sense logistically, financially, etc. The v7 will still be a v7 just based on a different block. Perfecto!
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That's awesome then. That's gotta be the route guzzi is going. It's the only thing that makes sense logistically, financially, etc. The v7 will still be a v7 just based on a different block. Perfecto!
What makes you guys think Guzzi needs a 750? Is that some sort of magic number in the motorcycle world? Is 45 RWHP too much to warrant 38? When Guzzi updated their V11 series to a 1200, I'm not seeing an 1100 offered any longer. How is this different? When they went to 750, they no longer made 650's.
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This ^^
Why does Guzzi need a 750 when they have a new 850?? Why de-tune it here in the states? The 850 is still less ponies than most Jap 650's so no need to lessen the pull. The 850 should easily fill the 750 niche with bumped horses. It's not like it's a big difference guys, but updated yes. Get over the 750 thing vs. massive 850. It's not a big deal, but it's necessary. I say 750 is toast soon.
I would think that markets like the US that don't have tiered licensing will get the 850cc engine in the bikes currently known as V7II (Stone/Special/Scrambler/Racer).
But, for those markets that need < 50 HP learner bikes, they may go with smaller bores (or stroke) and make a 750cc version of the 850.
Good move for Guzzi if they offer some resemblance of the V7 line with this new mille. Im not a fan of the V9's.
:1:
But, if they don't, I've got my V7 Special and Racer to keep me happy for years to come.
That said, I think (and hope) they'll sell a lot of Roamers and Bobbers.
What makes you guys think Guzzi needs a 750? Is that some sort of magic number in the motorcycle world? Is 45 RWHP too much to warrant 38? When Guzzi updated their V11 series to a 1200, I'm not seeing an 1100 offered any longer. How is this different? When they went to 750, they no longer made 650's.
For learner bikes in the EU. They need to be under 36 KW (49ish HP) or something in that neighborhood.
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I thought we had decided that the Heron head V7 couldn't meet the new EU emission regs . Aren't most countries with tiered licensing inside the EU ?
Dusty
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I thought we had decided that the Heron head V7 couldn't meet the new EU emission regs . Aren't most countries with tiered licensing inside the EU ?
Dusty
Thank you Dusty; the other point I didn't make. This just doesn't add up to keeping the little guy around. The V9 was done for emissions I suspect and they said (I'm assuming) the bump up to 850 was reasonably easy. I'm told the jugs are the same size and Lario heads still fit the V9 like the V7. Maybe this is an interim engine to some real beast of a sb. 4-valve heads!!! Hmmmm...
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Yes I think you're nuts.
Why wouldn't an 853cc V9 Stone or Special with the same bodywork as the current V7II (except possibly all in metal) be just as good or better than the current V7II?
I mean, it's not like they have to use the instrument cluster, tank, or even controls of the Roamer/Bobber on a V9 Stone/Special/Racer ??? So what's the hesitation?
No argument from me, if that was going to be a true reality for the US market. I understand the arguments, but it still takes a leap of faith that it is truly in Piaggio's plans for the V7.
Too early to tell. But I do like the V7 II just fine in its current config. Really like it.
But, if they made this hypothetical V9 Stone a larger/taller bike than the V7, with the same layout, I would be salivating indeed.
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No argument from me, if that was going to be a true reality for the US market. I understand the arguments, but it still takes a leap of faith that it is truly in Piaggio's plans for the V7.
Too early to tell. But I do like the V7 II just fine in its current config. Really like it.
But, if they made this hypothetical V9 Stone a larger/taller bike than the V7, with the same layout, I would be salivating indeed.
It doesn't have to be larger and taller than the V7. The Roamer et al is the same frame as the v7 with a different swing arm. This gearbox in the latest v7 II was designed for the V9 not the V7. That's what we were told anyhow. I think you guys are thinking this is a bigger engine... it's hardly different from the 750 and fits the same spaces. They can drop it in a current V7 layout and there you have it. I think people are making s mountain out of a mole hill with this mille.
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It doesn't have to be larger and taller than the V7.
Correct. But I would LIKE a larger/taller bike. I'm 6'4' 285. What's wrong with a wish list?
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Correct. But I would LIKE a larger/taller bike. I'm 6'4' 285. What's wrong with a wish list?
Sorry... you confused me by stating it was great in its current configuration for you, then added the next text about it being bigger as a V9. I get what you're saying.
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Bigger does not always mean better. I think the vast majority of us on this board concur with this. There are a lot of reasons for why this specific increase would not, in theory, result in any annoying changes; rather, seems like most would be small gains here and there only. That being said, I totally get where Deswami is coming from per se. I think. I've owned bikes and scoots from Vespas to 1200s and nothing, I mean nothing fit me like the V7 Stone's state of tune right out of the box for my specific riding. Around town it was just charming. On the highway parked at 80, it was smoother than just about any bike ever owned, even bikes with twice the horsepower, and much moreso pleasurable for me to ride at those speeds (65-80) than my current Griso whose engine tells me at that speed or below that it basically would like to go a bit faster :copcar: It is almost a mystery to me how the small block could be so enjoyable at those highway speeds when it's top end was only about 15mph more than this. This has more to do with my riding than the bike but if they did something to mess with that then yeah, I get was Swami is saying. I miss that little Stone.
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So why did you sell such a perfect motorbike Bipper ? :evil:
Dusty
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So why did you sell such a perfect motorbike Bipper ? :evil:
Dusty
Well duh. Dusty. It's a Griso. :thumb:
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Well duh. Dusty. It's a Griso. :thumb:
So you are a horsepower junkie after all :grin:
Dusty
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I doubt you're going to find something around 17% increase in hp to behave that much differently than the sedate 750. I put 15% more into my 650 and it only feels bigger and stronger, but didn't lose its charm. I don't think this 850 is going to say "wring my neck you woosy bastard", but I bet when you do it feels better than the 750. If you had both bikes sitting next to one another dressed equal and priced nearly the same, you can't tell me you wouldn't go for the 850 over 750!
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So you are a horsepower junkie after all :grin:
Dusty
power corrupts and makes you smile :wink:
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So you are a horsepower junkie after all :grin:
Dusty
:boozing: I would say I'm more of a bike junkie, moving from one to the next for a fix. I now have 2" peg lowers on the G and Rox risers so it will go pretty much down the block or around the world, but if I had to choose a bike for the next state over, I'd suspect the V7 would still be my pick over any bike I can think of that has graced my garage or I have even ridden. I will own a V7/V9 again in the future. It really was the best bike for me and my riding I have ever owned.
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I know this is an imperfect comparison, but Moto Guzzi getting rid of the V7 (and by that I mean a retro pure standard with a 5.7 gallon tank, not a particular motor size) is like Ford getting rid of the F150. Both the V7 and the F150 are each company's best selling vehicles.
For Guzzi, the V7 is 50% of their sales.
From a business perspective, it makes zero sense to get rid of your biggest seller. Thus, the 850 motor will have to be put into the V7. Even if Roamer and Bobber sales eclipse the previous sales records of the V7 (not likely) it still wouldn't make sense to leave the V7 money on the table.
I would bet my current V7 that sometime in the near future, it will have a near identical stablemate, save for the extra 109cc.
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Why not make the V9 the new V7? They have the same basic frame. Why not create all the beloved V7 variants using the new V9 motor and transmission, along with the Roamer and Bobber if they sell well?
Triumph is not going to keep producing the old air-cooled Modern Classics. They are replacing them entirely even though they have accounted for a large portion of their sales. MG could do the same by essentially upgrading the motor and transmission again (as they have just done with the V9) and calling it the V7 III.
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From a business perspective, it makes zero sense to get rid of your biggest seller. Thus, the 850 motor will have to be put into the V7.
Why not make the V9 the new V7? They have the same basic frame. Why not create all the beloved V7 variants using the new V9 motor and transmission, along with the Roamer and Bobber if they sell well?
It is destiny.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5wAK-rl7Fu04_csJtdeE68cAd6wJ1GQI_2y7a6UR-8oyGBRx2)
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Why not make the V9 the new V7? They have the same basic frame. Why not create all the beloved V7 variants using the new V9 motor and transmission, along with the Roamer and Bobber if they sell well?
The V7II model came about because of the V9. The V9 is the mate to that transmission. It is destiny. Say goodbye my little friend.
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Rider review. Not as over the top positive as the Cycle World one, but still quite favorable. I'm not a tech/gadget guy but I'm intrigued by the multimedia options.
http://ridermagazine.com/2016/03/24/2017-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-v9-bobber-first-ride-review/
Motorcyclist Review. Kinda meh. Keeps emphasizing it's not friendly for women :undecided: or new riders. :rolleyes:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/first-ride-review-2017-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer
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Motorcyclist Review. Kinda meh. Keeps emphasizing it's not friendly for women :undecided:or new riders. :rolleyes:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/first-ride-review-2017-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer
SHORT gal, sitting way up on the front of the seat. Weird...
If she'd relax those arms and scoot back a bit, the cylinders wouldn't be in her knees... :undecided:
(http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/motoguzziv9_roamer_002.jpg?itok=gSkcSsQC&fc=50,50)
It really wasn't fair to the bike that she kept mentioning "average female height", but neglected to mention her own, which appears to be something less than "average".
Here is an average guy on the bike, and knees not even close to the cylinders...
(http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/031816-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-2976_MotoGuzziV9-584x389.jpg)
This is the Guzzi tester on the prototype:
(http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/100615-spy-photo-Moto-Guzzi-V7-Eldorrado-005-583x389.jpg)
(journalism is dead)
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^ Yep. She needs to sit back and relax.
Also, that stock seat is not a two-person seat, so scoot back. It is really a one-person seat, especially if one is an average-sized American.
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that stock seat is not a two-person seat, so scoot back. It is really a one-person seat, especially if one is an average-sized American.
Yep. It's a 1.5 seat.
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Yep. It's a 1.5 seat.
Seems that .5 seat was inevitable , we have been told for years the average American family consists of 2,5 members :huh:
Dusty
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SHORT gal, sitting way up on the front of the seat. Weird .
Yes, but ... there's just something about a girl on a motorcycle! :wink:
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Maybe she likes the vibes up there??? You dinks only think from your own perspective! The world is a whole lot bigger than you!
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Good grief. Seems like every mainstream American motorcycle mag scribe has to say things like "..the lager front tire made turn in slightly slower" and on and on and on. Or their may be too much torque for newer riders or some such nonsense. Yikes.
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Yes, but ... there's just something about a girl on a motorcycle! :wink:
Yep. Made me fall in lust with a Lario.. :evil: :smiley:
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Yep. Made me fall in lust with a Lario.. :evil: :smiley:
Sweet Melissa!
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SHORT gal, sitting way up on the front of the seat. Weird...
If she'd relax those arms and scoot back a bit, the cylinders wouldn't be in her knees... :undecided:
(http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/motoguzziv9_roamer_002.jpg?itok=gSkcSsQC&fc=50,50)
It really wasn't fair to the bike that she kept mentioning "average female height", but neglected to mention her own, which appears to be something less than "average".
Here is an average guy on the bike, and knees not even close to the cylinders...
(http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/031816-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-2976_MotoGuzziV9-584x389.jpg)
This is the Guzzi tester on the prototype:
(http://motorcycle.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/100615-spy-photo-Moto-Guzzi-V7-Eldorrado-005-583x389.jpg)
(journalism is dead)
Holy moly Batman that's playing it tight. Looks like me on a tricycle with elbows at my sides. Maybe she thought those were knee rests until she found two holes in her jeans after the ride. "Wondered why my knees were warm..." she says
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Here's an excellent video review of the Roamer, in Italian but with English translations. (I looked but couldn't find it posted in several threads.)
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1178789-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-riding-in-mandello/ (http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1178789-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-riding-in-mandello/)
Excellent because you can hear the motor (bella!), see the suspension in action (not so good), even see the vibrating handlebar at start-up. The motor appears to be torquey and not peaky.
Interestingly, there is a "guzzirent.it" sticker on the tank -- the Agostini rental operation's logo. Sign me up!
It's a heartbreaking video, too, in that all the beauty of Lake Como is on shameless display on a beautiful sunny day.
Enjoy.
Moto
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Doesn't look good, how the front end reacts to bumps, even in a straight iine. Well, if I was buying a V7, I'd be budgeting for a suspension upgrade front and back. Why should the V9 be any different.
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Doesn't look good, how the front end reacts to bumps, even in a straight iine. Well, if I was buying a V7, I'd be budgeting for a suspension upgrade front and back. Why should the V9 be any different.
Doesn't look any different from the V7 in that aspect.... <shrugs>
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^ Nice review!
How I wish my riding was on almost-deserted roads around Lake Como and not bumper-to-bumper freeway crawling interspersed with brief moments of joy...
The V9 looks really nice, and it sounds great in that video.
As for the suspension, I would have to try it myself. I am, I dare say, "sturdier" than the average young Italian male. I imagine my weight would do much to beat those springs into submission. Who knows how the V9 would then handle dips and bumps in the road?
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I like the idea of a V9 standard, I like it a lot :smiley:
I love my Breva 750 and for me its almost the perfect bike, the V7II with its larger tank and superior gearbox is my perfect bike but both bikes are too similar to warrant the upgrade whereas a V9 standard may temp me.
I am concerned that the redesigned heads will be less fuel efficient than the 750's Heron heads though as I've been impressed with my bike's MPG.
In some ways it'd be nice to see the V7 Stone kept on as a budget entry into Guzzi ownership but I doubt that'd be possible as manufacturing costs would probably be similar to the V9 :sad:
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Back to something Kev M mentioned earlier about Todd working on a whole V7 version of the Bobber/Roamer. Since it is the same frame, it does make me wonder just how much work - not much? a lot? - it would take to get a V7 tank on one of the new bikes.
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Doesn't look any different from the V7 in that aspect.... <shrugs>
That was my point, as well. It's what I expected. At 3:35-40 he hits a couple small potholes and has a very reaction very similar to what I remember of my V7C. You're cruising along having fun and then you suddenly say "whoa, that was not fun at all!"
But it's a cool video. The microphone doesn't really do justice to the sound, and yet it still sounds fantastic. Heroin for the Guzzi junkie.
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I get the impression this is a puff piece, but can't be sure parce que je ne parlais pas le francaise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqlFQjR9nYI
But worth watching for the video and audio.
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OK, Moto Guzzi needs to send one to Phoenix for me to ride around Arizona for a couple weeks. We've got roads that are fast and boring, twisty and terrifying and every thing in between.
I'll even wear my full face helmet so folks are not scared by my face. If they send it in time for the Not a Rally in May I can even show it around a bit.
And please Moto Guzzi, TWO proper analog gauges (or at least the option to add the second one).
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a bit like a forum rant but here you are:
http://www.motofire.com/2016/04/reviews/tested-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber/
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He pretty much hits it I think.. :smiley:
It would appear that stance is now more important than performance and handling on planet custom.
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This the first I've heard of the cooling air flow around the exhaust ports
An entertaining piece
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He noted the bosses on the frame that could move the footpegs back -- a future standard to replace the doomed V7?
I note that the brake and shift lever look like they were made in shop class from sheet metal.
Remember when Guzzi had lovely cast pieces there? (draws on corncob pipe)
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a bit like a forum rant but here you are:
http://www.motofire.com/2016/04/reviews/tested-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber/
merged into the threadfest...
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One of the most entertaining reviews I've read in quite a while. Great stuff.
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a bit like a forum rant but here you are:
http://www.motofire.com/2016/04/reviews/tested-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber/
Realize now the article was a slightly editted version of this original, some of the comments make more sense when you see the source website:
http://thebikeshed.cc/2016/03/30/the-new-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber/
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I like Polar Bears!
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Nice little article in Cafe Racer mag. April/May issue44.
V9 Bobber-"impressively lithe and maneuverable" etc..
They rave on it.
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Not a review, just 12 minutes of video, but one of the better ones that's up right now imo. The first couple minutes are good because the rider is passing and being passed by other V9's, so lots of different visual angles. After that they bog down on slower roads, but the end is cool where they ride into the factory.
Also gives some sense of the passing power of the V9, which even in this situation is clearly a bit step above the V7.
If I got a Roamer, I'd be putting a screen on it immediately. That Easy Rider slouch gets old quick at 70 mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZ3nbidh_s&ebc=ANyPxKrWjytR0R5wUcQRbAUliFbopvqBd1CdLGg-9IxW-Gvw98gWBPGtLdVyblk1_ebJXEcz_vTcaBC8TCsYWiQiUVz8DBOsEA
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Not a review, just 12 minutes of video, but one of the better ones that's up right now imo. The first couple minutes are good because the rider is passing and being passed by other V9's, so lots of different visual angles. After that they bog down on slower roads, but the end is cool where they ride into the factory.
Also gives some sense of the passing power of the V9, which even in this situation is clearly a bit step above the V7.
If I got a Roamer, I'd be putting a screen on it immediately. That Easy Rider slouch gets old quick at 70 mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZ3nbidh_s&ebc=ANyPxKrWjytR0R5wUcQRbAUliFbopvqBd1CdLGg-9IxW-Gvw98gWBPGtLdVyblk1_ebJXEcz_vTcaBC8TCsYWiQiUVz8DBOsEA
Not sure how you can tell the V9 has more "passing power" from that video? .
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Not sure how you can tell the V9 has more "passing power" from that video? .
My basis is having done 12,000 mi on a V7. But I grant you it's a subjective and highly unscientific observation. That vid features some moderately aggressive rolling on, and I liked how the V9 responded.
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"Not sure how you can tell the V9 has more "passing power" from that video?"
Believe me, it has.
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...@ www.cyclenews.com by Alan Cathcart. :azn:
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...@ www.cyclenews.com by Alan Cathcart. :azn:
http://www.cyclenews.com/2016/04/article/first-ride-moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-bobber/
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I think that's the first reviewer to prefer the Roamer with its more sensitive (other reviewers seemed to think over-sensitive) steering.
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I like these new V9s and may put off buying the V7II I planned to buy. I've only seen them in pictures and videos but so far they look good to me. I'll miss the tachometer, the bike doesn't really need one but when I bought my first motorcycle only the more expensive bikes had one and so everyone wanted one, I still do. The slightly forward pegs on the Roamer are a plus in my book. Forward pegs are a lot easier for an older rider like myself with stiff knees and hips. The styling is OK but the prominent ridges on the sides of the gas tank seem a little overdone. The only thing I would seriously like to see changed is the weight, I would like to see that go down to the weight of the V7II.
The main reason I ride a small block is that it is about the only standard bike that has decent performance and weighs in around 400 lbs.
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Right on! Looks like the press is fairly warm to the V9 series.
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I like these new V9s and may put off buying the V7II I planned to buy. I've only seen them in pictures and videos but so far they look good to me. I'll miss the tachometer, the bike doesn't really need one but when I bought my first motorcycle only the more expensive bikes had one and so everyone wanted one, I still do. The slightly forward pegs on the Roamer are a plus in my book. Forward pegs are a lot easier for an older rider like myself with stiff knees and hips. The styling is OK but the prominent ridges on the sides of the gas tank seem a little overdone. The only thing I would seriously like to see changed is the weight, I would like to see that go down to the weight of the V7II.
The main reason I ride a small block is that it is about the only standard bike that has decent performance and weighs in around 400 lbs.
I see, you want a similar bike to your V7II that has 7 more HP, less plastic on it, but weighs the same. :laugh:
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To Arizona Wayne, That's about it except I don't currently have a V7II, I have a 2007 2TB Nevada so I'm also looking for ABS, better styling, and a newer bike. I have other bikes I ride but nothing with traction control, ABS etc. One of my bikes is heavier than than the Nevada and I've decided it is too heavy and will probably sell it. And at my age I don't want to break down on the highway so I've decided that I should keep newer and hopefully more reliable bikes.
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A closer look at the v9 small block engine.
http://www.cycleworld.com/moto-guzzi-v9-motorcycle-engine-history-and-evolution?src=offramp&loc=region-3&lnk=txt (http://www.cycleworld.com/moto-guzzi-v9-motorcycle-engine-history-and-evolution?src=offramp&loc=region-3&lnk=txt)
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A closer look at the v9 small block engine.
http://www.cycleworld.com/moto-guzzi-v9-motorcycle-engine-history-and-evolution?src=offramp&loc=region-3&lnk=txt (http://www.cycleworld.com/moto-guzzi-v9-motorcycle-engine-history-and-evolution?src=offramp&loc=region-3&lnk=txt)
Unfortunately with a lot of misinformation. IE, the small block engine was not designed by the "De Tomaso Automobili technical staff", nor by a " limited competence" designer. It was almost single-handedly designed by Lino Tonti, who designed the chassis too ("vague" in the Lario? Maybe confronted with bikes made ten years later, but in 1984 it was one of the best handling and rigorous middleweight bikes around) and it's nearly incredible that his name is not reported even a single time in the article.
As for the comparison with the other 350cc twins, the Morini one was really an outstanding engine, but it was designed to be a "true" 350. The 500 was yet a lot less remarkable, and the engine can't grow further. The Ducati was a lot more fragile for a very limited, or null, gain in power (at the rear wheel: V35II 1987, 31.25 ps at 8800 rpm; Ducati Indiana 350 1988, 30.65 ps at 9100 rpm; Ducati SS 350 1992, 35.32 ps at 10400 rpm).
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Unfortunately with a lot of misinformation. IE, the small block engine was not designed by the "De Tomaso Automobili technical staff", nor by a " limited competence" designer. It was almost single-handedly designed by Lino Tonti, who designed the chassis too ("vague" in the Lario? Maybe confronted with bikes made ten years later, but in 1984 it was one of the best handling and rigorous middleweight bikes around) and it's nearly incredible that his name is not reported even a single time in the article.
No it wasn't! It was sweet in the way a sour lolly was sweet. It was, as stock, a complete, steaming, turd.
When Guzzi announced the Lario I really wanted one. On paper it was actually fairly good. In reality it was awful and its awfullness was exacerbated by idiots trying to *Tune* the f*** out of it.
It's taken thirty years of clever people retro-engineering the motor to get it to anywhere close to where it should of been.
Bit like the flat tappet 8V, eh Chuck..... :evil:
Pete
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I think that's the first reviewer to prefer the Roamer with its more sensitive (other reviewers seemed to think over-sensitive) steering.
The steering of the roamer is definitely not over-sensitive. The feeling is comparable to the V7 Stone in a way that the more rearward oriented rider´s position and the bigger front wheel compensate one another. The influence of the tyres can be neglected as both the V9 Roamer and my V7 Stone have the Sport Demons.
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The styling is OK but the prominent ridges on the sides of the gas tank seem a little overdone. The only thing I would seriously like to see changed is the weight, I would like to see that go down to the weight of the V7II.
The main reason I ride a small block is that it is about the only standard bike that has decent performance and weighs in around 400 lbs.
Where are you getting your information on weight? Are you just looking at the DRY (lie weights):
V7II Stone 417# dry - Scrambler/Stornello/Racer 419# dry - vs Roamer/Bobber 438#dry - that's 19-21#
But the V7II has a 5.8 gallon tank, and at 6.3 #/gallon that's an additional 36.5# which gives you a wet weight of AT LEAST 454-456#.
That number is pretty believable since MCN put the wet weight of the 2013 V7 Racer (factory claimed of about 395#) at 443#.
The Roamer/Bobber have only a 4 gallon tank - so fuel only adds an additional 25# to the claimed 438 dry which gives you 463# which is only 7-9# more than the V7II.
So you're worrying about less than 10#.
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Kev M: Thanks for pointing out the weight differences and yes I've been making comparisons based on dry weights. After reading your post I went back to see the various weights for the V7 models. They are right around 400 lbs, that's what I've been using. So the V7II has gained nearly 20 lbs over the earlier V7 bikes. I had not noticed that difference. So the Roamer is nearly 40 lbs heavier than what I am comfortable with.
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Kev M: Thanks for pointing out the weight differences and yes I've been making comparisons based on dry weights. After reading your post I went back to see the various weights for the V7 models. They are right around 400 lbs, that's what I've been using. So the V7II has gained nearly 20 lbs over the earlier V7 bikes. I had not noticed that difference. So the Roamer is nearly 40 lbs heavier than what I am comfortable with.
Well, you might want to rethink that yet again.
Looking just at WET weights (1st 4 from MCN):
2004 Breva7 448#
2005 Nevada 439#
2009 V7C 444#
2013 V7R 443#
Current models predicted wet weights
V7 II 454-456#
V9 (B or R) 463#
You said you've got a Nevada - so that's 439 vs. 463 meaning only 24# than you are currently "comfortable with" NOT 40#.
Next to my V7 Stone we've got a Ducati 696 which is reportedly 408# vs the Stone's 443# - that's a 35# difference.
I don't think I could possibly tell the different between those weights without a scale.
I'm not even sure my 5' 6" wife can tell.
YMMV of course, but I wouldn't write any of these off because of weight based solely on specs (without trying them).
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V9 sits a bit lower and has a smaller fuel tank than the V7, so those are both reasons why, all else being equal (which it seems to be), the V9 might not feel any heavier while moving. You'll probably only feel the extra weight while pushing it around.
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V9 sits a bit lower and has a smaller fuel tank than the V7, so those are both reasons why, all else being equal (which it seems to be), the V9 might not feel any heavier while moving. You'll probably only feel the extra weight while pushing it around.
Well, NQ is coming off a Nevada, I don't have the spec for the Nevada seat height handy, but that might be closer to the Roamer/Bobber.
But regardless, 24# more weight on a Nevada is equal to 5% - seriously 5%. I can't imagine that matters pushing it around.
I mean, we're not talking bench-pressing here.
I can tell a difference between pushing around my Sporty and my Guzzi - but that's over 100# (and even THAT isn't all that big a difference). But between our Duc and Guzzi... NO WAY.
<shrugs>
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Well, I did not feel much of a difference between the V9 and my V7 Stone. Both are fairly light bikes. This cannot be an important issue when to decide between the two bikes. The different seating position however is at least for me.
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Neverquit says he's "old" (his words). For seniors or petite women, 25 lbs might make all the difference.
For me, anything less than 475 lbs is A-OK.
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Neverquit says he's "old" (his words). For seniors or petite women, 25 lbs might make all the difference.
Yeah, I wasn't ignoring that, but still.
I got a 50.something year old 4' 10" friend who rides a 550#+ Sportster and can "push that around" - granted it's REALLY low... but still.
Ok, she's recently run a 1/2 marathon (And at that height, that's like a full marathon really lol).
But still... I guess in the end only NQ can really decide for himself. We've given him some facts and some opinions, but at the end of the day his butt will decide.
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I'm waiting for my V711 Special to be delivered (next week I hope, subject to the effect of miserable weather on the cross-channel ferry). I am really looking forward to it, and have test ridden it...BUT: there is a small voice saying that I should have waited, the V9 is a better version of the same bike, it has a bit more power...
Any one else have this nagging doubt? The answer is, of course, who gives a stuff - the V7 is a great machine, and whatever you have there's always a bigger boat. Of course it is. But still...
Beerman
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I'm waiting for my V711 Special to be delivered (next week I hope, subject to the effect of miserable weather on the cross-channel ferry). I am really looking forward to it, and have test ridden it...BUT: there is a small voice saying that I should have waited, the V9 is a better version of the same bike, it has a bit more power...
Any one else have this nagging doubt? The answer is, of course, who gives a stuff - the V7 is a great machine, and whatever you have there's always a bigger boat. Of course it is. But still...
Beerman
I'm anxious to test drive the V9, and it might be my next motorcycle purchase, but the V7 II is still very much in the running. Did I want more power from my previous V7? Only on rare occasions when I wanted to pass on the twisties. And even then I have to ask, why was I in such a big damn hurry? It's quite possible the V7 is still "just right" for me.
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Just curious, anyone here skilled enough to do a mock up of the V9s with more of a deck seat?
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I'm waiting for my V711 Special to be delivered (next week I hope, subject to the effect of miserable weather on the cross-channel ferry). I am really looking forward to it, and have test ridden it...BUT: there is a small voice saying that I should have waited, the V9 is a better version of the same bike, it has a bit more power...
Any one else have this nagging doubt? The answer is, of course, who gives a stuff - the V7 is a great machine, and whatever you have there's always a bigger boat. Of course it is. But still...
Beerman
Nah.
I mean, I expect the 850 motor to be great and I might want one someday. I might even prefer that motor, who knows.
But I'm so enamoured with my V7 I've no nagging doubts.
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Just curious, anyone here skilled enough to do a mock up of the V9s with more of a deck seat?
You mean like a folding chaise lounge ??? OK Pennie , get busy :laugh:
Dusty
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You mean like a folding chaise lounge ??? OK Pennie , get busy :laugh:
Dusty
Man, I bet a Russell Day Long would look sharp on that Roamer. :bike-037:
:boozing: :wink: :shocked:
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While the V9 might push some buttons, the V7 II Stone pushes them all. It's just dandy as is, will do the ton, handles great, I'm warming up to the ABS and traction control, looks great, it's pretty well sorted out. I had had intentions of getting a V9 but went with the V7 II (again).
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You've put your finger on it there DaSwami; I have no desire to ride around doing the ton, and the V711 can do everything I need it to do, and do it well. There is something in human nature that always wants a bit more, a bit faster - and it's probably wise to knock that on the head as soon as it shows itself!
Beerman
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I'm not certain they designed the V9 for the ton specifically. I think it's more about keeping up in the race and some customers appreciating going from 30mph to 40mph a little quicker. Pull factor is greater. That said, the V7 is fine. This ton thing is over the top as none of these bikes is designed for this.
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What always surprised me about my former V7 was that the top speed on the bike was maybe only a bit over 100 but parked at 80 on the highway the bike was smooth as silk to me.
Craig at C&D said he expected the V9s to get to our shores by the end of this month. Any word on their arrival in the States yet?
Also, though the V9 series have been reviewed up much, I can't seem to find much data as per mpg nor tank range? I recall maybe the Cycle World review saying at one time he was maybe reading 50ish but I think he might have been (?) looking at the real time calculations?
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What always surprised me about my former V7 was that the top speed on the bike was maybe only a bit over 100 but parked at 80 on the highway the bike was smooth as silk to me.
Craig at C&D said he expected the V9s to get to our shores by the end of this month. Any word on their arrival in the States yet?
Also, though the V9 series have been reviewed up much, I can't seem to find much data as per mpg nor tank range? I recall maybe the Cycle World review saying at one time he was maybe reading 50ish but I think he might have been (?) looking at the real time calculations?
3.9 gallon tank.
So, if you ran through 3.5 gallons and returned 45 mpg, that's 157 miles.
If you ran through 3.0 gallons at 50 mpg, that's 150 miles.
I'm going to say it's a 150 mile bike, under normal conditions...
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^ So, the range of the V9 will be about that of my Vespa Scooter, which I need to fill up every second or third day if I am riding it to and from work.
V9 owners may want to take a page from Vespa riders tired of filing up every other day and strap a fuel bottle somewhere to the bike...
Still, my Triumph Thruxton fared no better. 150 miles or so and the tank was empty!
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One of the nice things about my 2014 V7 Special is range. Last weekend on the way to Cedar Vale, I ran it to 208 miles and only added about 4.2 gallons. Still had a gallon useable left in the tank!
Though, for its intended mission, 150 miles is plenty for the V9.
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Got a left over bargain V7. Then the V7II came out. Thought about the leg room and smoother tranny. Now the V9. My favorite Star Trek quote comes to mind:
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical but it is true" Spock
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"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical but it is true." Spock
I like that quote !!!
I'd like more legroom, and I think the V9s are pretty cool. I'd also like one of those leftover blue Cal 14 Customs...
Will the madness never end ???
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Spock had it going on there. :thumb: I've often wondered where the fun of living would be if you could have everything you ever thought you wanted..
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I like the Spock quote :thumb:
On the other hand, like Oscar Wilde said... "Too much of a good thing is wonderful". :grin:
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^ So, the range of the V9 will be about that of my Vespa Scooter, which I need to fill up every second or third day if I am riding it to and from work.
V9 owners may want to take a page from Vespa riders tired of filing up every other day and strap a fuel bottle somewhere to the bike...
Still, my Triumph Thruxton fared no better. 150 miles or so and the tank was empty!
My Vespa claims 110mpg. That is with (I am sure) an 8 stone Italian female on it. I am not Italian, am not female, and I am not 8 stone. I do not get 110mpg.
Beerman
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"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical but it is true" Spock
That is perfect! I'll remind myself of this whenever I'm wanting a Thruxton R.
I'm sure I'd get bored with it anyway. I find running the V7R up to the ton to be more fun than a quick run up to 125 on the VFR800 that I sold last year. For one thing, the run up to the ton on the V7R takes longer, and feels like you're going faster.
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I want to see if the v7 gas tank will swap over to the v9.... Then some 17 inch rims from the V11 spine frames....then we are on to something. :bike-037: yeah it never ends when it comes to motorcycles...or we'd all be on our first ride yet...what is the fun in that?
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I find running the V7R up to the ton to be more fun than a quick run up to 125 on the VFR800 that I sold last year.
That reminds me of another good quote: "It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow". :laugh:
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That reminds me of another good quote: "It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow". :laugh:
Little known fact: Albert Einstein was trying to express this exact sentiment, but his mumblings were misinterpreted as "E=MCsquared."
The rest, as we know, is history.
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This ton thing is over the top as none of these bikes is designed for this.
My point was the V7 II is fast enough....nothing the V9 does will make me want to change steeds.
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Little known fact: Albert Einstein was trying to express this exact sentiment, but his mumblings were misinterpreted as "E=MCsquared."
The rest, as we know, is history.
Actually that makes perfect sense :bow:
Dusty
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My point was the V7 II is fast enough....nothing the V9 does will make me want to change steeds.
After having ridden the V9 Roamer and immediadetly after that my V7 Stone on the same lanes this is exactly my sentiment. The wonderful Hemi - engine nonwithstanding.
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I too have decided to sell or trade my fine Griso to go back to my formerly beloved V7.
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I too have decided to sell or trade my fine Griso to go back to my formerly beloved V7.
Whoa! :shocked: Let me offer a pre-emptive welcome back to the small block fold.
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I too have decided to sell or trade my fine Griso to go back to my formerly beloved V7.
This is beginning to sound like a movement!
Beerman
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To date, several comparative tests between Triumph Street Twin and V9 had been done. On the bench, I've always seen the V9 to be a pair of hp short of the ST, but, on the bench of Moto Station, it went a little different, with not only the V9 being ahead of the ST in terms of power, but showing probably the torque curve with the best shape I've ever seen in a new Guzzi.
(http://m.moto-station.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/comparatif-retro-vilo.jpg)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4c67ow_comparatif-neo-retro-2016-passage-au-banc_auto
http://www.moto-station.com/article109449-comparatif-neo-retro-2016-la-technique.html
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Nice surprise! This explains why this thing "goes" so good. I love that engine!
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Nice to see the curves and comparison. Torque is good, very good.
Maybe I missed it, but has anyone actually bought a V9 and given a review on this forum?
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I have not bought one, but I did take a Romer out for a ride. I wrote it up on one of these threads.
I liked it a lot. If I were smaller, i'm 6'6" 250b, I would like buy one. But alas, it is still a small block frame, and just a bit to small for me. But it did have very nice power delivery, super slick trans, and mucho fun to ride. like other small blocks, the front end felt a little light to me, the semi forward pegs were very nice for my knees, not sure for me, if they would splay my knees over a long ride, might be a manifestion of my size? I really liked it, and would buy one if it fit me. So if your in the size range, go for it, it's really nicely put together, and it pulls and sounds great!
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I rode it, you can read the report in the beginning of this thread. My sentiments are very comparable to that of bad Chat.
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Press release of V9 in Oz over the last few days. Those knobs will of had a fine old time in the weather! Inspection this weekend for the privileged few in Shitney. Called up the importer, hope to go down soon for a test ride and see if I can pry any actual *information* out of anybody :roll eyes:
'Official', (Whatever that means?) news is CARC bikes are dead.
Pete
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If you refers to what Daniel reported in another thread, is hardly a news. No CARC bike had been produced for at least six months by now.
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Yes, but there were a host of people who were refusing to believe it until it came from an 'Official' source. I was simply throwing in to the ring that the Australian importer has confirmed what Daniel and I were saying. Is that *Official* enough? Or does everybody need to get a gilded envelope delivered by Mercury to their letterbox? :rolleyes: :grin:
Pete
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One thing is the data, another is the significance one gives to it.
In Mandello there are two assembly lines, that are usually employed, one to produce all the small blocks and one the big blocks. The production is in "batches" of hundreds of samples, to reduce the dead time required to switch the production between different models. For several months, when the factory had to produce enough new V9s to fill the dealers' net, no V7 had been produced as well. That meant that the production of V7s had officially ended? No, that meant only that the assembly line was busy doing other things.
What's currently produced in Mandello is a picture of the present, not a guarantee for the future.
that said, the production of the current generation Griso and Stelvio will not be resumed, but, if form the Piaggio upper floors comes the order to begin the production of the next gen, it will be produced. It will have the CARC? Maybe, maybe not. The CARC is only a mechanical part that's not even produced in Mandello.
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Thanks for that marvellous insight.
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The production is in "batches" of hundreds of samples, to reduce the dead time required to switch the production between different models. For several months, when the factory had to produce enough new V9s to fill the dealers' net, no V7 had been produced as well. That meant that the production of V7s had officially ended? No, that meant only that the assembly line was busy doing other things.
What's
Do you think they will put the V7 back into production or do you think Guzzi will just start making the v7's replacement with the new 850cc small block mill?
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The V7s had been put back in production as soon as spring arrived. Hundreds of those are sold every month, so they can't go ahead only with those stored for a year or so. For the next year, they seems convinced to keep the V7 line at 750cc, but, for the rest (heron heads, hemi heads...) the details will probably not be revealed until EICMA.
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Here's a question on the V9 Bobber vs Roamer. Bobber has bigger front tire. How does the bigger tire affect handling? Roamer seems more typical like a current V7. Experts? Those that have ridden both?
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Go find a dealer and ride them. Its all better in the flesh.
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I've been pondering the same question, as I'm close to deciding to get a V9 (when they finally come to CA). Extrapolating from the various reviews referenced in this thread, it seems like the rake lends itself to quick turning, enough so that the intertia of the fat tire of the Bobber might actually be a useful opposing force. This is probably not how one would set out to design a performance motorcycle, but most of the reviewers seemed to think it worked to a reasonable degree. At the same time, most reviews seemed to indicate the difference between the two to be fairly subtle.
Due to my young chilluns, my next bike is going to be more of a toy than a real go-places bike. The bobber just seems more entertaining for a 20-mile ride to a piano gig. But that's just me.
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Good picture on the official website.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/dswansbiker/v9_zpsbxw1nb0h.jpg) (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/dswansbiker/media/v9_zpsbxw1nb0h.jpg.html)
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I guess Motorcyclist must REALLY love the Triumph Street Twin, as they ended their review of the v9 Roamer with the following sentences.
"Happiness after the sale requires one sacrifice: Don't ride your friend's new Street Twin. Ever."
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Am I in a minority of one on this one:
This retro chic is not such a hard game,
Take that bobber, get rid of that stupid tank, replace it with something very similar to a V50 tank only even so slightly more blimplike retaining and emphosising those beautiful lines, paint it an aluminium silver, call it a V9 Zeppelin, Airship Italia, even V-9 Norge,
jobs a good-un,
I'd buy one
ps why am i so wordy, where do I get a v50 tank and where will the fuel pump go?
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I looked at a Roamer and Bobber today.......very nice looking motorcycles. I'm gonna test ride them tomorrow and then decide which one I want.
For the last eight years I've been riding a Triumph Sprint ST 1050 and I need to slow down. I love my Sprint but it's getting heavy for me (aging), and as I said, I need to slow down. The 1050 brings my inner hooligan out of me. Not such a good thing anymore, not that it ever was. :wink:
I'm also gonna take the Triumph Street Twin for a test ride to compare. After seeing the two V9's and the Street Twin up close, the pair of Italians has the Britbike beat in the fit and finish department, but the test ride will be the determining factor. I'll let you know how it goes.
The dealer is in St Charles, IL and is a H-D, Triumph, and Piaggio group dealer, so that makes it really convenient.
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The dealer is in St Charles, IL and is a H-D, Triumph, and Piaggio group dealer, so that makes it really convenient.
That sounds perfect to me!
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slipper of horns,
Please, please write up your test ride impressions. I know the inner hooligan, that is why I ride a Triumph STRX--going to get a romp today.
Every once in a while I need to really feel that scream. V7R is very tame by comparison.
I think I like the Roamer style better than the Bobber. Need to see both. Plans for that will occur late June to early July at AF1 in Austin.
Before I make a final decision I also want to ride a Bonnie, probably the T120 though, although the weight is getting on the high side for me.
T120 performance is pretty impressive from videos comparing to a 675 Triple on low end.
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I had to go up to C&D yesterday to pick up my Triumph Turnip project. While there I first gazed upon the new Geese in the flesh. Very nice as expected; yet, one thing I wasn't expecting when sitting on them and trading off with the V7 right beside them is how much legroom there is - seemingly more even than the V7 though the pegs are forward. I expected the pegs to be forward but up annoying high. Each time I jumped on the Roamer for comparison I kept expecting to find the pegs up higher. I can't remotely buy one right now but it does bode well for my 32" inseam.
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slipper of horns,
Please, please write up your test ride impressions. I know the inner hooligan, that is why I ride a Triumph STRX--going to get a romp today.
Every once in a while I need to really feel that scream. V7R is very tame by comparison.
I think I like the Roamer style better than the Bobber. Need to see both. Plans for that will occur late June to early July at AF1 in Austin.
Before I make a final decision I also want to ride a Bonnie, probably the T120 though, although the weight is getting on the high side for me.
T120 performance is pretty impressive from videos comparing to a 675 Triple on low end.
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Hi Guys,
I just got back from my test ride. I ended up riding the V9 Roamer and a V7 Stone back to back. I did not ride the Triumph Street Twin because the one they had was no longer there. They are apparently selling like hotcakes. That's ok, because the V9's are a finely polished jewel compared to the Brit twin. I love Triumph's, but man, these V9's are gorgeous in every way.
Ok........The V9 performs WAY better than the spec sheet numbers would suggest. Power was immediate and linear with just a hint of that wonderful Guzzi vibe. I found that it liked to rev, and when I did so, the shifts were smooth and positive. Short shift it and it protests a wee bit. I really like the fact that it likes to rev. It's plenty quick!
The clutch pull was very smooth and light, and I found the mid mount pegs to be quite comfortable. Remember, I'm coming off a Sprint! So I simply rode the Roamer with my toes on the pegs (perfect for me), and move my feet forward when I needed to operate either the brake pedal or shift lever; same drill as my Sprint, just in a different position.
I found the V9 Roamer to be much nicer in every way than the Indian Scout that I test rode once. No comparison as far as I am concerned. I also found the V9 to be nicer than the V7. Frankly, the V7 felt weak in comparison. The V9 is just better, simple as that. I appreciated the extra leg room of the V9 Roamer too. Nice!
The seat on the Roamer is softer than the plank-hard one found on the Bobber. I decided not to ride the Bobber even though the Italian salesman said it handled a little better. There was just something about the gorgeous golden/yellow paint job on the Roamer that drew me in. I also found the handlebars on the Roamer to be more to my liking. No matter which V9 you would choose, the seat will have to be re-worked if you want to do any serious seat time. No biggie, I've had to do that with every bike I've ever owned.
I guess that's about it. Oh yeah, there was considerable wind blast at 50-55mph, which is to be expected, so I'd invest in some sort of shield if I buy one.
I guess that's about it
Ciao.........
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^ Nice review! I have been visualizing having a Roamer in my stable someday soon...
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I guess Motorcyclist must REALLY love the Triumph Street Twin, as they ended their review of the v9 Roamer with the following sentences.
"Happiness after the sale requires one sacrifice: Don't ride your friend's new Street Twin. Ever."
I don't know how much they had to love the Triumph to say that, since they sure weren't very happy with the V9.
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I forgot to talk about general handling characteristics. There were no surprises in any way, and that's a good thing. Look through the turn, boom, done. The suspension was also free of surprises, though admittedly the roads were smooth and in good shape. I'm 5'10" and go 225 in all my gear; helmet, gloves, jacket, overpants, and boots.
It'd be easy enough to upgrade springs and shocks if one so desired, but there was nothing glaring at me that said, "this sucks". Nothing! Damn fine motorcycle in stock trim.
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sliphorn,
Grazie! Thanks for a meaningful review. I am willing to bet the V9 engine breaks in and gains some high end and smoothness with miles. Comments I have read on the 6-speed transmission seem to indicate less clunky than the V7s? Who knows maybe Guzzi will make a gel seat for these bikes?
Can't wait to test one. Agree that the yellow Roamer is the looker, although white might be ok. I can imagine these bikes in the famed Tenni Green...
veloce!
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So, are you going to pull the trigger?
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I test road the Roamer today and really enjoyed the engine and the transmission. Shifting was very smooth and the power delivery was better than I expected, and it also handled quite well in the few turns that I got to take and it on, plus it was nice to see a shift indicator on the clock. Pushed it up to about 85 on the freeway and I didn't really need to get into 6th gear until about 80, and it felt planted at that speed. Of course it needs some kind of wind screen for those sustained freeway miles.
Both the Roamer and the Bobber are not my kind of bike, but I do think that the platform has potential for a more interesting bike. Quite frankly I like the older V7 tanks compared to the new Praying Mantis tank and I prefer a stand alone tach as the single instrument seems a bit busy, but I guess one can get use to that after awhile.
PS. I rode up to the dealer on my 1000S, so it was interesting comparing the contrast between bikes. I'd never sell my bike for a Roamer but the engine/tranny is definitely better, but I would expect that out of a bike that was 23 years newer. :cool:
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I enjoyed my test ride as well. Everything worked very well, and sounded good too!
My only real concern, aside from being too big for the bike, was that the peg location being ever so slightly forward of neutral, caused my legs to splay out at speed. I could feel that I was using my upper leg muscles to keep my knees from being pulled out by the wind. This would be no concern for lower speed riding, or rides less than 45min, yet, for me, knowing how I like to ride, Ie high speeds, it might cause some issues.
Aside from that, I really found it good, though like others, I was only on good quality roads. It does feel lie it's packing more punch than the spec sheet gives it credit for. I hope they sell well, its a good starting point for other derivatives.
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"My only real concern, aside from being too big for the bike, was that the peg location being ever so slightly forward of neutral, caused my legs to splay out at speed."
Yes, I didn't like the peg location either. Supposedly one of the guys who test road the bike liked it too, as he ordered a Roamer.
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I demo'd a Roamer at the WNY rally. Noticeably more grunt than I expected. Shifting was smoth, and the thin flat seat was pretty comfortable. The shift/brake levers are much nicer than the V7, and more forward. They are further out, and my legs felt splayed as well. The handle bars were awkward in combination with the pegs. Dealer brought a Bobber too, but it wasn't a demo. I like the looks better, and the drag bars might provide better ergos. All said and done, it's not enough for me to trade my V7. NICE engine though, and I'm curious to see where it ends up in the future. Smallblock Stelvio? Retro 850 LeMans? We'll see.
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sliphorn,
Grazie! Thanks for a meaningful review. I am willing to bet the V9 engine breaks in and gains some high end and smoothness with miles. Comments I have read on the 6-speed transmission seem to indicate less clunky than the V7s? Who knows maybe Guzzi will make a gel seat for these bikes?
Can't wait to test one. Agree that the yellow Roamer is the looker, although white might be ok. I can imagine these bikes in the famed Tenni Green...
veloce!
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Yes, I felt the trans was very smooth for a new bike, though I couldn't tell much difference between it and the V7 Stone's trans. It's my understanding that Guzzi offers a "comfort" saddle for the V9's.
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So, are you going to pull the trigger?
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I'm still thinking about it. Here are my concerns. 1) It is a first year model. 2) Will the upright riding position be a problem for my lower back. A short demo ride will not generally reveal that. 3) Because of the V9's cost, if I were to buy it, I'd have to sell my Sprint, and after riding my Sprint to the dealer, 20 miles or so, I thought to myself, "are you crazy"!? My Sprint is a fantastic bike.
And finally........Oh man, this is gonna raise some eyebrows. My next door neighbor has a like new 2014 Piaggio BV350 scooter with well under a thousand miles on it. In fact he hasn't even had it in for its 1st 620 mile service. I can pick it up for a song AND keep my Sprint. The BV350 is a very fun, plenty quick scooter, and I would ride it most of the time and keep the Sprint for those days when I need to release the beast from within...........Or so I think.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.......... ..
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Slip,
Buying any new bike is a significant decision. Glad I am not the only one that makes informed choices. Given that, I say go for it.
The tank shape on the V9s is definitely unusual. Not sure it is very ergonometric. It is pretty though. Couldn't be much worse than current V7s with flat tank sides with no knee grip possible. Love my Triumph STRX for that knee support so important for hooliganism.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences and opinions.
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I too rode the same V9 Roamer today as did Blackcat and I ditto what he said.
The pearl white bike is very handsome. Fit and finish is superb.
The new engine looks good too. I like the cylinder and head appearance much better than the latest V7.
Once it comes to life and in the lower rpm range, the new 850 seems to power pulse (eg vibrate) a wee bit more than the V7 but it is not offensive to me. Power delivery is what I would term very adequate but not overly inspiring. I have a single-cylinder 650 that will walk away from the 850 Guzzi.
The 850 has nice low end torque and, as the engine revs, it smooths out noticeably. If it only had a little bit more....
The foot pegs are a little too far forward for my tastes but I could live with it. I'd kinda like bars maybe a little lower and the thin pad seat started to become tiresome after about 20 minutes. But, that's the kind of bike this is, a semi-cruiser, a standard run-about of sorts. The few curves I negotiated went ok but this machine is not designed or intended to be a curve-carving motorcycle.
Anyway, I like it, kinda. I like the engine and think it has potential. Surely it will eventually serve duty in place of the 750 sibling.
Along with our mostly 50-60ish crowd, we had a slew of millennials at the same dealership staging a poker run for charity on their crotch rockets. (Who would have guessed that 20-somethings on jap bikes would be doing a poker run?)
The V9 Roamer demo along with a Cali Custom demo were parked at the front door outside so all the kids had to walk by all of us gray-hairs and near-gray-hairs. They were very polite but none took advantage of a demo ride. Based on the performance level of the bikes I saw them ride in on, I'm not sure how satisfying a test ride of the V9 would have been for any of them.
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Thanks for additional comments and thoughts. The V9, to me, I hope: yes a wee bit more power/torque than my current 2TB small block, modern ABS, the two traction setting is a plus. Upright stance is the big plus. Comfort for longer rides is my goal: turn a Roamer into a nice easy going mid-range touring bike. Maybe more trips to TX hill country. Maybe northern Arkansas. Maybe even Okle-homeie.
Why a Guzzi? Good question. Younger sport bike crowd mainly see motorcycles as power/speed/handling thrill. Different culture. I was on my Triumph 675 STRX yesterday southbound towards the Gulf coast yesterday morning. Up behind I hear the rip of a Ducati Panigale, the big one. Guy cruising along at 75 in a 55 zone. Looked me over and vice versa, then he goosed it and disappeared. Not interested says I. Ego is a lot of the game. Yeah, he is fast. Racing bike for street. Very, very loud.
Why a Guzzi? For me: the unusual engine, the shaft drive, the sheer beauty of a machine built in Italy. Something quite rare and unusual.
Geared up and riding the V7R to church this morning. Its all about the engine.
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well i finally got a chance to ride the 2016 V7 Stone and a V9 Roamer at a demo days at our local dealer , i was pretty excited as many on this site love the small block and promote it so well , Guzzi sales on the V7 are the main stay of the brand.
All i can say that after the ride i had to compose myself as i found nothing of interest in either bike , they were both anemic in power especially the V7 ,the V9 with better torque spread, the suspension was some what better on the V9 but the V7 was akin to a hobby horse and the brakes were adequate,the riding position for me was ok but for others it could be worse or better...
The best part of each bike was fit and finish , they looked as of quality ..
Big disappointment for me in general and i cant for any reason other than esthetics see any attraction for these motorcycles.
Do i stand alone in my opinions , i bet not but i do fear that others will be shy to vent on what i see as being realistic .
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The review of any motorcycle will be heavily colored by the reviewer's frame of reference. The V9 will undoubtedly be a good bike for novices, but what about experienced riders?
I'm one of those folks who have owned a V7 and loved it. As for the anemic power, I didn't care. I've had much more powerful bikes that brought me less pleasure. Now and then when I wanted to pass a slow car on a curvy mountain road, I'd wish the V7 had a little bit more. Sounds like the V9 would be able to handle most of those situations adequately.
If I still had a V7, I probably wouldn't trade up. Being Guzzi-less, the V9 looks very good. Ergonomics are the big question for me, and I haven't been able to sit on one yet.
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Both the V7 and the V9 are faster and more powerful than my Vespa GTS 300, but I am more than happy with the speed and power of my Vespa. Anemic? Perhaps it is to some, but not to me... I imagine many people will be thrilled with the speed and power of the V9.
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Both the V7 and the V9 are faster and more powerful than my Vespa GTS 300, but I am more than happy with the speed and power of my Vespa. Anemic? Perhaps it is to some, but not to me... I imagine many people will be thrilled with the speed and power of the V9.
Interesting and true. I recently put a few hundred miles on my Ninja 250 and enjoyed its excellent handling, very light weight, and modest but adequate power. We get used to motorcycles being ultra fast and powerful, but my little 250 will do a quarter mile in about 15 seconds, and is plenty quick enough to safely merge into freeway traffic, or pass a slower vehicle on a country road. The V7 and V9 are both faster than my 250, and should do everything well, except for acceleration or speed contests with faster vehicles. If that stuff is important to a rider, he should certainly get a more powerful/faster motorcycle.
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Jim of Triple fame,
The little Ninja is a fantastic machine. Agree on all points.
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I think they can look decent too, once you get rid of all the heavy plastic stuff. :grin:
My daughter on mine, playing on the Dragon:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fXpaaa/ga_ex250_solo.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fXpaaa)
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is pretty though. Couldn't be much worse than current V7s with flat tank sides with no knee grip possible.
<Scratches head>
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Couldn't be much worse than current V7s with flat tank sides with no knee grip possible.
Huh? This is one feature in which I regard the little Goose much better than a lot of other bikes. The V9 included, but also a lot of "sportier" bikes. I admit, mine has the additional rubber tknee pads.
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Anemic?
That's a really silly perspective looking at the big picture.
~14 second 1/4 mile still puts a V7 in WRX territory.
That's not anemic except viewed by the very narrow perspective that every car should have 500 hp and every bike should turn 10-11 second 1/4's, which even though both are becoming easy to find (when not long ago they were exotic), they are still far from the majority.
And I'm not saying such things shouldn't be desired or enjoyed, just that if you come from that perspective you simply won't get the smallblocks, and that's fine.
It's like the kid salesman who was talking trash about the new T120/Thruxton (only an idiot talks trash about a bike in his own showroom).
But he had absolutely NO IDEA why ANYONE would buy a bike for a little more money that made less power than a liter bike from JAPanInc.
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Yeah Anemic may have been a bit harsh in my description of the small blocks .....
I for one am not a huge proponent of outright HP its not the be all and end all of a good motorcycle for sure, but with a strong engine especially in the midrange a motorcycle can if coupled with good brakes and suspension be sublime or near perfect .
In my youth i was one of those guys , not only did i own very powerful motorcycles i added to them, the faster the better and as far as suspension went .. meh.. it wasn't all that important .
Things changed as i grew into bikes , suspension /brake components were upgraded first and a good tune was all that a already strong engine would get, strong roll ons in the middle were important as passing was easy and safe in traffic and bursts of speed were fun and exhilarating and smiles would come knowing that the reserve was there when you needed it anytime.
I have continued in that frame of mind , upgrading suspension and brakes and making sure that my bikes have the midrange to pull hard out of a corner , a mountain pass in top gear if desired and power to spare for a pillion when needed.
Its not fair for me to rate a small block as that type of motorcycle is for some one that prefers what they are as a motorcycle .
So Apologies to all that love them , i was just giving my reaction to them and i am sure that for many they are fine motorcycles.
cheers
Keener
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To be clear Keener, it's all good. My response was one about perspective.
I've spent not inconsiderable amounts of time on bikes with MUCH BETTER brakes, suspension, and power, but there's something about the more rudimentary and visceral smallblock that does it for me, fully recognizing it's limitations.
So no offense taken, just pointing out the vast difference in perspectives.
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Kev,
On my V7R, with tank pads, at least with the low gel seat and my body: almost zero ability for knees to brace on tank. Really noticed it after getting the Triumph with classic wedge shaped tank. Hold with knees: really helps on hard braking and acceleration, and also cornering.
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Kev,
On my V7R, with tank pads, at least with the low gel seat and my body: almost zero ability for knees to brace on tank. Really noticed it after getting the Triumph with classic wedge shaped tank. Hold with knees: really helps on hard braking and acceleration, and also cornering.
Maybe it's a size thing.
At 5'10" / 32"ish inseam I can grip the tank whenever desired, though I don't mind splaying a bit too in hot weather.
But heck, I can grip the tank on a sportster with a peanut if I want.
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Hold with knees: really helps on hard braking and acceleration, and also cornering.
For cornering you need to be hanging both cheeks off the seat to the inside, with your knee puck on the pavement, not holding on in the middle. :evil:
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Jim of Triple-ness
Been down low enough on the STRX to scrape pegs. Bike sticks like glue, great settledness of suspension too. Hang on with outside knee on center of tank pad....Yvon Du Hamel I am not...but I met him once.
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Knee down on the road? Not for me, but that's one mans opinion.
I also rode the V9 at the WNY event. The overriding impression I had was that it was the first retro bike I've ridden that actually had a usable suspension right out of the box. Unbelievable. Every other bike I've ever been on under 10K, and most over that, have had good at best shocks, springs, and specifications. As for power, Kev M said it very well. I don't miss my Street 3 at all compared to my V7-but again, not the only view offered. Then there's the whole experience of watching a world class rider on a stock Bonneville leave Daytona 675's in the DUST on a very technical road. But that's for another time.
I agree with the peg discussion. A tad forward. Maybe I'd get used to it. For sure a flyscreen to take pressure off the chest may render it a mute point. All in all a great offering IMHO. Not going to change my V7 for one but for sure it's a fine machine.
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Imagine my surprise when a brandy new, shiny, yellow- gold Roamer crossed in front of me on my Sunday morning ride. Sharon Connecticut. So at least one has been sold in Connecticut. I caught up with the proud owner, a "hipster dude" - at least 70, & he said he saw a picture of it in a magazine, thought "that's a fine looking motorcycle," bought it and says he loves it. Other than breakfasts and Guzzi events, I see about 1 Guzzi a year in my area of north west CT.
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I went up to Arlington to check out the V9 Roamer at La Moto Washington - great guys! - today. My bias: I rode there on my R9T. I was hoping to see if the V9 was a bit comfier while still retaining enough power and character.
The test ride was around town, which was busy and didn't really have many places to really test the handling. My first impression, in a word - awkward. For me, at least. The seating position was a little too upright (didn't think that was possible - I like upright seating positions), and I didn't immediately find the clutch engagement point. My knee kept banging into the left cylinder head. The Roamer had more than enough power around town and the seat was pretty comfortable, but for whatever reason I felt like the handling was a bit...wobbly? Unpredictable? The first time I rode the R9T (and my Norge) I felt that the handling was rock-solid and predictable.
I'm sure I'd get over some of the awkwardness, but the bike didn't scream "you must buy me!"
I also tried an Eldorado, but I was reminded why I don't really like cruisers...too heavy, and I was constantly in fear of dropping it. Didn't inspire confidence. But that's just me.
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Well, it is interesting to see that most of you who have ridden the Roamer agree in that the seating position is a bit awkward. I experienced exactly the same things: pegs a bit too forward, leaning angle a bit too backward, one feels a bit unconnected to the front wheel. But a really nice engine, and the workmanship stands each comparison to the new Triumph - series.
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I just put nearly 1100 miles on my V7 this weekend. All kinds of roads from slab to twisty, and everything inbetween. NOT ONCE did I have a problem accelerating when I needed to pass a car or truck. The majority of people here are not, nor have ever been, motorcycle "racers". Gripping the tank, dragging a knee? Gimme a break. How fast do you NEED to go on public roads?
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I just put nearly 1100 miles on my V7 this weekend. All kinds of roads from slab to twisty, and everything inbetween. NOT ONCE did I have a problem accelerating when I needed to pass a car or truck. The majority of people here are not, nor have ever been, motorcycle "racers". Gripping the tank, dragging a knee? Gimme a break. How fast do you NEED to go on public roads?
well... as fast as you can get away with ......apparently :laugh:
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On some of the curves on the Dragon, I get a knee down while not exceeding the speed limit.
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Comfort for longer rides is my goal: turn a Roamer into a nice easy going mid-range touring bike. Maybe more trips to TX hill country. Maybe northern Arkansas. Maybe even Okle-homeie.
So you're going to ride the V9 now on long trips, not the Triumph? Both bikes set up for touring long distances now?
:thumb: :thumb:
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Stopped by Windy City Triumph and took a couple of pictures. I was offered a test ride but didn't have the time. I like them. But the stable is full.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/dswansbiker/DSCN4434_zpsajqdjhyy.jpg) (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/dswansbiker/media/DSCN4434_zpsajqdjhyy.jpg.html)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/dswansbiker/DSCN4437_zpsbyvpkjdm.jpg) (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/dswansbiker/media/DSCN4437_zpsbyvpkjdm.jpg.html)
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"...I felt like the handling was a bit...wobbly?"
Can't disagree with the wobbly part. And what's with that gas cap, could it possibly look any cheaper?
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"...I felt like the handling was a bit...wobbly?"
Can't disagree with the wobbly part. And what's with that gas cap, could it possibly look any cheaper?
But it sounds like everyone who has commented so far has only been on the Roamer.
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That´s right. I will try to get a ride on the Bopper. My dealer has both.
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I just finished looking over a couple Roamers, one white, the other gold and the Bobber. I liked the seating position and so did another old guy who was looking at bikes. If you are getting old and starting to fossilize then the forward pegs and upright position seem perfect. The bike felt fairly light and looked small. There was a V7 and V7II Classic sitting near to it and they appeared bulkier with their fuel tanks. They are so similar that I have to believe Guzzi will drop the V7II line as soon as they use up their inventory of engines and parts.
I don't like the fuel tank design but it didn't bother me as much as I thought it would and maybe a person might grow to like it over time. Someone mentioned the horrible looking gas tank cap and I agree, what were they thinking! The seat seemed hard at first but the more I sat on it the better it felt. In an earlier post I was worried about the weight and was told ( in so many words) that I was being silly. Well, they were correct, I couldn't feel the weight difference between it and a V7 when sitting on it, maybe the center of gravity is a little lower.
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Have not ridden the V9 but sat on both, back and forth, I prefer the Roamed.
I have ridden the V7 and enjoyed it, I think I like the Roamed peg position better, I definitely like the V7 tank and seat better, but the yellow Roamed is great.
Seems like the V7 and V9 have the same frame, hmmm.
Now as far as pulling the trigger, how long will either last? I keep bikes over ten years, so will the models last?
My Aluminum runs and is paid for, more important that model in some variation has been around a long time so parts and knowledge are plentiful.
I would like a new bike, but I keep leaning towards other Tonti California models because of their longevity and parts availability.
Any thoughts?
Update:
Rode the Roamed today, really liked it.
Meds a better seat or have to add something between the two of us.
I liked the foot peg location, not sure why most don't like it, guess just I've had in the past.
I was disappointed when they only offered $1500 for my Aluminum.
Still not ready to pull the trigger.
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New write-up.
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2016/06/17/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-and-roamer-test-on-the-shores-of-lake-como/
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That was a decent article and it has some great pictures of the V9.
This one is my favorite.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/dswansbiker/Guzzi/v9bobber_zpslml16qiu.jpg) (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/dswansbiker/media/Guzzi/v9bobber_zpslml16qiu.jpg.html)
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New write-up.
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2016/06/17/2016-moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-and-roamer-test-on-the-shores-of-lake-como/
A couple oddities from the article:
1. "To match the sporty ride, a single Brembo four-pot caliper is mounted up front, with a two-piston clamp in the rear. They do a good job overall, but a hard or stabbing pull of the front lever will make the bike steer slightly to the right, though this reaction was absent in normal use." This is the first time I've heard someone claim that a single front disk makes the bike's steering pull to one side. Does this really happen with this bike?
2. "Adequate torque translates to a strong feeling of the engine ring impulses, even with the heavier flywheel, and this is a pleasant vibration." I've never heard the term "engine ring impulses" before, although I can guess what the writer means. Was this supposed to be firing impulses?
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Just a few more Roamer and Bobber photos from the Cycle World road test. :thumb: :cool:
I am looking forward to seeing these models in person in the near future. :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hnasMF/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Bobber_002_590x393.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hnasMF) (http://thumb.ibb.co/ehFgFa/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Bobber_006_590x442.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ehFgFa) (http://thumb.ibb.co/eNbova/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Bobber_09_590x393.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eNbova) (http://thumb.ibb.co/hgFRgF/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Bobber_LEAD.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hgFRgF) (http://thumb.ibb.co/gKtq8v/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Roamer_012a_590x393.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gKtq8v) (http://thumb.ibb.co/nb1cov/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Roamer_023_590x442.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nb1cov) (http://thumb.ibb.co/kLcHov/Moto_Guzzi_V9_Roamer_2839_590x393.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kLcHov)
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A couple oddities from the article:
1. "To match the sporty ride, a single Brembo four-pot caliper is mounted up front, with a two-piston clamp in the rear. They do a good job overall, but a hard or stabbing pull of the front lever will make the bike steer slightly to the right, though this reaction was absent in normal use." This is the first time I've heard someone claim that a single front disk makes the bike's steering pull to one side. Does this really happen with this bike?
Maybe the writer was scratching his a**s with his left hand when he needed to brake hard? Personally, I didn't notice anything like that on my test ride.
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Test ride on the new V7ii Stone last week left me seriously considering "ugrading" from my Breva 1100. The new V9's look even better. I think the only thing that will hold me back is the availability of suitable windscreens. No way I can ride these bikes without better wind protection on the freeway.
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Guzzi has a screen for each. Roamer screen looks probably adequate for freeway speeds. Bobber is a flyscreen, probably doesn't turn it into a touring machine. A larger screen on the Bobber just wouldn't look right.
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A couple oddities from the article:
1. "To match the sporty ride, a single Brembo four-pot caliper is mounted up front, with a two-piston clamp in the rear. They do a good job overall, but a hard or stabbing pull of the front lever will make the bike steer slightly to the right, though this reaction was absent in normal use." This is the first time I've heard someone claim that a single front disk makes the bike's steering pull to one side. Does this really happen with this bike?
Since the brake is on the left, his account makes physical sense: the reaction should rotate the fork right. I'll bet it really happened. Just one more small knock against Guzzis, like the dreaded torque reaction to the flywheel.
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Since the brake is on the left, his account makes physical sense: the reaction should rotate the fork right. I'll bet it really happened. Just one more small knock against Guzzis, like the dreaded torque reaction to the flywheel.
It looks like it should, but it shouldn't. The forces all cancel out, so there is no net torque on the front end that would tend to steer the bike, even if it has only one front disk. My Ninja 250 has a single front disk, and I can tell you for sure that there is no tendency to steer, even when stopping hard enough to lift the rear wheel.
If something is flimsy and gets misaligned under braking forces, I could imagine some tendency to steer, but that would be pretty flimsy front end construction. I certainly hope that's not happening to the V9.
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Since the brake is on the left, his account makes physical sense: the reaction should rotate the fork right. I'll bet it really happened. Just one more small knock against Guzzis, like the dreaded torque reaction to the flywheel.
I'm really sceptical about an author who claims such reaction.
I've now owned a number of bikes with ŕ single disc and never remotely noticed such a reaction.
I mean hell, my Buell ST3 had a huge caliper and single rotor the size of a pizza. If anything was going to produce such a reaction I'd expect it to be that.
I could be wrong of course, but I think we'd have heard about this sort of thing a lot more on a lot of different bikes if that was true.
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It used to be noticeable if you did something really stupid on something like a Monza or Imola but they had super-weedy 30mm(?) forks. The V7 series have something like 38mm forks. Methinks 'Journalist' is an onanist.
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This is the first time I've heard someone claim that a single front disk makes the bike's steering pull to one side. Does this really happen with this bike?
The bike does everything the tester is convinced it should.
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"I liked the foot peg location, not sure why most don't like it, guess just I've had in the past."
Well, for me it is easy to explain. I simply feel more in control of the bike when I sit with a slight forward-lean. My V7 Stone has the higher of the two Gel - seats, and for me it make a huge difference. Another example: I had the Monster 1200 for two days when my Guzzi was in service and this seating position was perfect - for me!
Even on a bicycle I sit forward - bended. On a Holland - bicycle (you know them in the States, in AUS and NZ?) I do not feel good.
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It used to be noticeable if you did something really stupid on something like a Monza or Imola but they had super-weedy 30mm(?) forks. The V7 series have something like 38mm forks. Methinks 'Journalist' is an onanist.
40mm. And, there's no way the brake package on the V7 is flexing the forks... :shocked:
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As I described I was able to ride the Guzzi V9 Roamer hard (you have to when you chase a Ducati Scrambler on a track and each other bike that is with you is significantly stronger). There was nothing like that when I braked hard.
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Thanks for updates on V9--looking forward to my own evaluation. Will look at schedule to get to Austin. Upright seating helps my body. Paul, yes I would like both bikes with ability for longer rides. Ordering side bag system for Triumph today, and a larger tank bag. Why not?
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I ride my V7 hard. I love leaning that thing into corners at high speed.
I have never once felt the front end "pull to (either side)", even under emergency braking.
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I was happy to see this in the ultimatemotorcyclin g.com review: "The flywheel weight has been increased by 30-percent for greater engine inertia." It was an unusually articulate review, I thought.
Here's a question: Am I right in thinking that the wider front tire of the Bobber (Bopper?) would give it better traction in dirt and gravel? This seems to be my experience, but I don't know if it's generally true. I've had lots of fun with narrower tires on dirt too, but rarely the opportunity to use such different widths on the same bike.
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Here's a question: Am I right in thinking that the wider front tire of the Bobber (Bopper?) would give it better traction in dirt and gravel? This seems to be my experience, but I don't know if it's generally true. I've had lots of fun with narrower tires on dirt too, but rarely the opportunity to use such different widths on the same bike.
Looks at a dirt bike's front wheel/tire and then you'll know the answer.
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Looks at a dirt bike's front wheel/tire and then you'll know the answer.
Yes, I guess that's right. Skinny and large diameter. Good for racing no doubt. What's the deal with those TW200's, then?
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200612/2007-yamaha-tw200-5_600x0w.jpg)
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The "deal" with the TW200 is that I *really* want one.
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The "deal" with the TW200 is that I *really* want one.
Me, too. From topspeed.com: "The first thing I notice when approaching the TW200 are those fat -- almost freakishly fat -- tires. Yamaha put a 130 series tire on the front -- a size that is usually reserved for the rear on a bike this size -- and put a 180 series tire on the rear. With the knobby treads reaching around almost from rim to rim, you know the bike wants to be in the dirt."
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I'd slap on a round headlight... put a ridiculously large gas tank on it, mount a motocross front fender, and ride the wheels off it. I love that little thing.
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Oh crap you had to say that. Now I'm thinking, ditch all the body work and lights, add a large round head light, a nice flowing gas tank (similar to the TU250) and a seat from something built in the early 70's. Make it a "proper" motorcycle. Oh that would be cool!
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Good review here, fairly new--hope its not a repost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMgVLDCUdts
Interesting comparison commentary to Ducati Scrambler, and his four cylinder Honda.
Spikes my interest in the V9 a bit more. Need to get back to schemes and schedules...
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Kinda useful review, though he's only been riding for 4 months so can't put much stock in his opinions. Took him most of the ride before he figured out to scootch back on the seat to counter accelerative forces.
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Adan,
True.
Another AU review, note video: V9 doing a wheelie. The reviews are starting to accelerate. Good. Most reviewers seem to like the V9s.
http://www.bikepoint.com.au/editorial/reviews/2016/2016-Moto-Guzzi-V9-RoamerBobber-launch-review-56868
I am searching and accumulating useful V9 reviews.
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Here's my review:
I rode it. It was good.
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Here's my review:
I rode it. It was good.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c327/triplejim/Misc/misc_board_images/teal_deer_zpsguhnoz1f.jpeg)
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"I relish those in-depth, technical rider reviews."
....... Mongo
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/like%20braaaa_zpssksvdr6w.jpg)
:tongue:
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What's the deal with those TW200's, then?
They are an oddity. They have their uses, but also their limitations.
Lots of info on the web about them, and a threadfest on ADVrider.
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It was a joke! I'm about done with reviewers brilliant comments like "the motor rocks from side to side when blipping the throttle at a stoplight".
Most reviewers need a good lesson from Alan Cathcart.
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It was a joke!
I knew that and enjoyed it. Did you get my teal deer reference?
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I'll be with my wife's family in Buffalo, NY in a couple weeks. Maybe Kustom Works will have a V9 I can ride, or at least sit on.
There ain't none in California.
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I'll be with my wife's family in Buffalo, NY in a couple weeks. Maybe Kustom Works will have a V9 I can ride, or at least sit on.
There ain't none in California.
Come down to Central PA on July 2nd for the Central PA Guzzi Ride.
You can ride your former V7R if you'd like.
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Keen on any V9 reviews.... :cool:
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Keen on any V9 reviews.... :cool:
Just go RIDE one!
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Cam,
Catching up this week. May try and schedule Austin V9 test as part of opening Alzheimer's clinic trip for FIL. Trying to fix date.
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I'm in Buffalo if you want to enjoy a pint or two!
About 2 miles from the airport.
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Cam, myself, and a whole host of others rode the V9 Roamer at the WNY rally. I think we all said we liked it. My biggest surprise was how competent the stock suspension was. Every other retro bike I've ever had a ride on had very poor OEM components IMHO.
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I'm in Buffalo if you want to enjoy a pint or two!
About 2 miles from the airport.
Splendid idea, King. We have a 3-month old and a 3 year old, so not sure what kind of free time I'll have for that sort of thing, but I'll PM you if it's looking good. We're in Williamsville.
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Me, too. 14221.
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Cam, myself, and a whole host of others rode the V9 Roamer at the WNY rally. I think we all said we liked it. My biggest surprise was how competent the stock suspension was. Every other retro bike I've ever had a ride on had very poor OEM components IMHO.
Jim, I also took it out on Friday evening. I was impressed by the engine and the quality of the bike. Not enough so to make me want to trade the V7...yet. Too bad the Bobber was relagated to the "sit on me only" tent.
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Just left Buffalo,NY. Get to the Anchor bar(home of chicken wings) and ck out all the motorcycles
on display. 1995Guzzi1100sport,Griso,HDsprint,BSA,Paul Smart Rep.
and on....
Oh, and Pierce Arrow museum (was free on fathers day)
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You don't need any more mag V9 reviews as I think the general picture is pretty clear. Besides that, they're full of bunk to some degree. Time to ride one if you're interested or at least listen to what our own has to say from this list. At least they have previous experience on a Guzzi and can give some noteworthy feedback we don't get all cross eyed about. Besides, you'll never really know until you ride one.
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Looks like the sidecovers from the V7 will fit the same place on the V9 frame...... :thumb:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/guzzi_v9_bobber_-11-560x420_zpsnrakzbrs.jpg)
Custom Blobber with full sidecovers.
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Looks like the sidecovers from the V7 will fit the same place on the V9 frame...... :thumb:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/guzzi_v9_bobber_-11-560x420_zpsnrakzbrs.jpg)
Custom Blobber with full sidecovers.
That V7 cover looks so much better, I don't understand why MG even bother to have new part number on V9, just use the V7's instead.
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The side covers (and fenders) on the V7 are plastic. V9's are metal. I do wonder why the new V9 covers are only half the size.
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Very pretty bobber. Keep thinking what a V9 would look like repainted Tenni green with a bit of red stripe? Bike begs for customization.
Metal side covers on my V7R!
Kev, you seem to be in a big hurry for me to test ride the V9 in Austin. Retirement provides a packed schedule right now. Today's mission is helping Ms LD through her first colonoscopy. Immediately after the alzheimer's clinic opens. End of clinic provides window for visiting Austin.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/g2qRyv/IMG_1522.jpg) (http://ibb.co/g2qRyv)
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Saturday night at the National Rally in John Day the winners of the various classes at that afternoons bike show received their plaques. There was only one V9, that being the demo bike from MG Portland OR. So no big surprise it won. The dealer man (can't remember his name) said that plaque will go to whoever buys the bike. So if you want the dull black with taxi cab yellow accents paint scheme better hurry and contact MG Portland and make a deal. My-oh-my, a show winner that still has all the factory installed warning stickers on the tank!
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I keep clicking on this thread hoping to find actual reviews of the V9 by, you know, an ordinary person who has actually ridden it...
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Several of us posted already. Cam and I, among others, rode one at the WNY rally. We all liked it well enough.
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I keep clicking on this thread hoping to find actual reviews of the V9 by, you know, an ordinary person who has actually ridden it...
Look harder. For example:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82302.msg1327875#msg1327875 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82302.msg1327875#msg1327875)
(And don't fill up the thread with such complaints.)
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Obviously, the new models are marketed for the younger urban rider.
Next, for the even younger suburban riders, Guzzi is going to go juvenile! :wink:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/moto-guzzi-schwein-machine-video_5-1024x722_zpsdrj2saa2.jpg)
:huh:
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That is awesome.
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I rode the Bobber demo at the John Day rally, a quick 20 minute ride up and over the hills through the twisty parts and a short blast on the highway.
My thoughts are it was reasonably comfortable, decent power, handled the tight curves without much effort. It felt small, light, minimal. I would consider it for a city bike, short commutes.
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Canuck,
Thank you for posting your Bobber impressions! Any comments on the brakes to make? Geometry? I remain in lust, yet waiting for planets to align. Should be sometime late July for a test ride.
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Saw Moto Guzzi had another nice V9 Bobber full page ad in Cycle World. Wonder if the bikes are flying off the shelves?
Also wonder if the thin seat is a real plank after 100 miles. Anyone have a comment on that question please?
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I laid eyes on one in person yesterday at the Ephrata First Sunday Breakfast.
Europa Macchina was there with a Bobber and their V7II Racer w/ Record Fairing.
I sat on it. As I already knew, the foot pegs were too far forward. The position of drag bars wasn't awful.
The motor is the best looking motor Guzzi has made in a long time. The rocker covers are attractive, as are the spark plug wire covers, which are metal attached withe screws vs. the snap on plastic affairs of the V7.
I'll wait for Nuevo 850 Le Mans.
The frame, while somewhat bases on the design of the V7 frame is different. The tail section is definitely different, and the foot control mounting bosses are several inches (about 5) forward of those on the V7 frame. So, it isn't a simple matter of bolting V7 parts on a V9 to make it into the bike we V7 fans want with the V9 motor. It would likely be easier to transplant the V9 motor into a V7.
The big question will be can the V9 motor and transmission, as well as the sing arm be transplanted onto a V7 frame. The swing arm is substantially beefier than the V7 one.
Some other notes, the overall build quality seems a step up from the V7, with metal side covers and fenders, plus the foot controls look like nice quality pieces. The fuel cap, however, looks to be an afterthought that came from a Chinese scooter parts vendor on eBay. The small (in the vertical dimension) side covers seem unfinished, leaving exposed wiring in the lower part of what was covered on the V7.
I hope that they sell tons, and hope that they build the Nuevo 850 Le Mans to replace the V7 Racer (Cam gets credit for the idea, as I had been discussion just another V7 Racer style bike, but, I like his idea of building a bike that looks like the 850 Le Mans, complete with the same colors, etc).
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Far forward pegs are a big nope for me. Still, I will sit/ride a V9 before making a decision.
Thanks!
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Far forward pegs are a big nope for me. Still, I will sit/ride a V9 before making a decision.
Thanks!
Keep in mind that "far" is very subjective, and Jay's perspective is somewhat skewed by a few vary painful vertebrae in his lower back.
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Keep in mind that "far" is very subjective, and Jay's perspective is somewhat skewed by a few vary painful vertebrae in his lower back.
Yes, my comment is definitely a personal, subjective comment. They are too far forward "for me." They're definitely mid-mounts and not forwards. Many here may like them.
They're about the same as Kev's 2000 Jackel was. I will certainly take one for a test ride given then chance, and still think both the V9 models will be good sellers for Moto Guzzi.
The crowd looking for Nuevo Le Mans (myself included) are going to have to wait for build their own.
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Kev, Jay:
Thanks for the peg placement comments, much appreciated. I tested an Indian Scout last fall: concluded there was no way I fit the bike.
Somewhere there is a website with motorcycle geometry info. Wonder if the V9 could be added? Yeah, about 3 weeks away from freedom to travel to Austin.
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http://cycle-ergo.com/ (http://cycle-ergo.com/)
.....
Somewhere there is a website with motorcycle geometry info.
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Just speaking from personal experience and comparing models that I'm familiar with, I'm not sure cycle-ergo.com is completely accurate. I'm not sure how they get their data, but some of it does appear correct.
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Jas, much thanks for the ergo website.
For what its worth, here is a comparison of the V7R, my Triumph STR and the V9 Bobber.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cx3ArF/V7_R_ergo.png) (http://ibb.co/cx3ArF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gTtArF/V9_ergo.png) (http://ibb.co/gTtArF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dtbVrF/STR_ergo.png) (http://ibb.co/dtbVrF)
I know for a fact the Triumph is much more upright, and less stress on my back. The V7R and V9 comparison, if accurate, shows the very upright stance of the V9. Bet the V9 would benefit from a good flyscreen.
Interesting, at least to me.
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I posted my review in the Nationals thread..
I rode the Bobber on the twisties on 395 south from the rally. I really wanted to like it.. but.. it's a cruiser. Meh. Feet forward, and with the tank shape, absolutely no place to get a grip with your knees. You can sort of put your calves against the intake covers, but it is a pretty uncomfortable feeling sitting straight up with no real way to get your weight forward.
The engine/drivetrain did feel pretty high tech.. but with no tach, it was hard to tell how hard I was running it. Soon learned to ignore that stupid flashing red light. Never did hit the rev limiter, so I assume I wasn't hurting it.
The chassis was ok, and surprisingly I didn't mind the fat front tire. It turned in pretty well. Brakes were good.
Power was down compared to the Aero engine, surprising me again. Maybe strangled with emissions? Dunno. Smooth and refined, though. For the kind of riding I like, the Bobber was a distant third to the Aero Lario or MZ.
It would make a fine bar hopper. I fear that Guzzi has lost their way. :sad:
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Kev, Jay:
Thanks for the peg placement comments, much appreciated. I tested an Indian Scout last fall: concluded there was no way I fit the bike.
Somewhere there is a website with motorcycle geometry info. Wonder if the V9 could be added? Yeah, about 3 weeks away from freedom to travel to Austin.
Jay and I have ridden the Scout.... The V9 is nothing like the Scout
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Jay and I have ridden the Scout.... The V9 is nothing like the Scout
The Scout's controls are much more forward.
Now, the Scout's engine in a standard, now that would interest me.
Nuevo 850 Le Mans please!
(http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/moto_guzzi_850_le_mans.jpg)
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Just speaking from personal experience and comparing models that I'm familiar with, I'm not sure cycle-ergo.com is completely accurate. I'm not sure how they get their data, but some of it does appear correct.
Cycle-ergo just uses side-view photographs to provide estimates of the dimensions, based on the rider's height.
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Just speaking from personal experience and comparing models that I'm familiar with, I'm not sure cycle-ergo.com is completely accurate. I'm not sure how they get their data, but some of it does appear correct.
Must admit to using it when my son got his HD 1200 Sporty. He was not happy with the riding position. Put the HD and the Breva side by side and scrolled a comparison between the two. By shifting the non-standard handlebars we were able to get a position that he is really happy with, and is closer to the Breva position.
A very useful tool.
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Don't think I've seen this review posted yet
http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-bobber-2016---first-ride-review/#.V33MA6JSOJj
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I'm a big Guzzi fan and glad to see new models coming out as well as getting some much deserved press. For the V9 to be truly successful it needs another sibling. More along the lines of a Breva or Griso. Triumph has multiple versions of the Bonneville and Yamaha with the FZ line providing broader appeal. As I read through this thread it seems most responders were trying to make the Bobber and Roamer fit all riding styles. While I believe they are great bikes, I'd prefer a more sporty version. 17" wheels maybe a V7 tank, two piece saddle a parts bin make over. Just my $.02.
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LD, just looking at the pic of the Racer, it looks very much like the riding position of the Breva, which I find most comfortable and with no strain on the back.
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averb,
Thanks for that new review. Yes, it is one of the best I have seen. Reviewer clearly knows Guzzi designs, history and themes. His last statement may be key: "more to come" out of Mandello? I remain keen on a test ride for myself.
The V7R, for me: fine out to about a 150 mile day. After that the forward pitch gives my back muscles fits. Hence interest in a more upright geometry. The V9 Roamer might tick all my "Guzzi want" boxes. Its still beautiful! Luigi knows design. I think a few details could be better on the bike, especially the side panels.
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Sat on a Roamer yesterday at Kustom Workz in Buffalo. As others have noted, the quality of the V9 is clearly a step above the V7, and is evident just from sitting. The suspension feels much better, though very firm.
The odd things that leap out based on a sitting how hard the seat is, and the rearward bias of the weight. Turning the handle bars on the showroom floor it feels like they pivot much too easily. These might prove not to be problems when riding, but they certainly are a concern.
King of Fleece was kind enough to lend me a helmet while I'm here staying with my in-laws, so hopefully can test ride it next week.
Last week I bought a Turismo Veloce. Didn't intend to do something like that so soon, but the test ride wow'd me, and they offered a great deal on a new one. Probably have incentives to move MV's during the bankruptcy, so I decided to take advantage of that.
But I still have room in the garage for a lightweight runabout Guzzi, and the V9 might be perfect. Even before test-riding I'm leaning towards the Bobber to have a more planted feel in the front.
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I should add that to me the rider's triangle felt very comfortable and inviting. I suspect it will feel great on the road once you take some wind off the chest.
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I wouldn't read too much into how easily a bike turns back and forth while parked. It could be something as simple as over-inflated tires or a slick/slippery showroom floor. A test ride with good tire pressure is the only way to really get a feel for it. Many years ago I test rode a Ninja 750 with very underinflated tires. Needless to say, the ride did not mesh up with everything I had read about it. After purchasing the bike (it was a great deal) and mounting new tires it was a new machine. (The front end never was never confidence inspiring but it had a great engine - in the years before I discovered v-twins)
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It's obvious, especially after seeing it, that the V9 is designed to be ridden at a leisurely pace (by today's standards). So if the steering is a little too light that shouldn't break the deal for anyone who is interested in the bike for it's intended use. I'm not sure the hard seat should be a deal-breaker either, and in any case that can be fixed.
I'm even more interested now that I've seen it. A charming runabout would be a good complement to the world-beating MVTV. But having just spent most of my discretionary cash, my next big purchase is probably pushed down the road at least several months, and by then we'll know what else Guzzi has planned for the 850 engine.
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Cam and I both rode the bike you'll demo next Tuesday. The helmet's at the paint shop BTW waiting for you.
I found the V9 to be quite nice on a test lop that included a few sweepers and twisties. The stock seat is vastly superior to the stock V7 seats.
The overriding impression I had when I returned was that the OEM suspension at both ends was MUCH better than my V7 in stock form.
Granted, that's not a tough standard to beat but nonetheless it may actually be rideable in stock form, which IMO the V7 is not.
Then again, I get my bikes, no matter the brand, set up and modded by Jim Hamlin in CT. It's a funny thing. After having had the experience of proper kit at both ends set up correct it's very easy to get spoiled!
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It's obvious, especially after seeing it, that the V9 is designed to be ridden at a leisurely pace (by today's standards). So if the steering is a little too light that shouldn't break the deal for anyone who is interested in the bike for it's intended use.
I'm not sure I accept that characterization, but it's likely a disagreement in semantics.
In my experience bikes like the various current smallblocks can be ridden at paces exceeding most speed limits and certainly most reasonably prudent cornering speeds.
Conversely today's sport bikes greatly exceed any reasonable limits on the street.
As such I wouldn't characterize smallblocks as designed for leisurely paces as much as I'd call them sporting paces, while I'd characterize sportbikes as more frenetic.
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Interesting opinions on the V9, please keep them coming!
Ah, semantics and word-salads and such. Lovely thingy-things. Wrestled with decision to, or not to ride this morning: still recovering from summer cold and nasty Alzheimer's episode yesterday, and late night block party to meet new neighbors.
Chose the one made in Mandello del Lario. Will try out the GoPro mount on front flasher.
I continue to look forward to my own V9 evaluation.
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I'm not sure I accept that characterization, but it's likely a disagreement in semantics.
It's semantics. I probably shouldn't be spouting off until I ride it, but my impression is that, wind blast aside, the V9 will feel just fine cruising at 80+ mph or riding a twisty rode at above the posted speed limit. Folks worried about the lack of ground clearance or the light or "wobbly" steering are unfairly comparing it to a sporty standard.
King, I have your helmet, will return it after my ride next Tuesday or Wednesday. Thanks for the Lagniappe!
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Test rode the Roamer today. The bottom line is I liked it a lot and am considering getting a Bobber, but might just go back to a V7 instead because it's not all that clear that, for my purposes, the V9 would be any better
Unfortunately the test ride was the super-lame kind, where you're just going around the block with no curves, but I did 7 miles of that plus some slow speed circling in a parking lot.
The engine is definitely the highlight, with tons of character and lots of pull from low rpms (I couldn't go fast enough to achieve high rpms). The engine character is what accounts for so much of the satisfaction in riding a Guzzi, and the V9 provides that in spades. I've owned a V7 classic, a newer V7 racer, and an 8V Griso, and have ridden the new California 1400. I'd say the 850 engine is closest to the 8V in this respect of just just giving you an enjoyable thrill at every twist of the throttle. And it's peppy. Not super fast, but for folks who feel the V7 doesn't provide enough acceleration, the V9 ought to address their needs to some extent.
The ride is very comfortable. The rider's triangle felt great, I had no concerns about the peg position, though again I wasn't going very fast. I would need more time on the seat to really judge it, but being able to move around so easily on the wide flat back part of it probably is conducive to long range comfort. I've been on nicely padded seats that lock you in and would much have this.
Suspension felt great. Even though I was on smooth roads it was immediately obvious that the V9 is far better than the V7 in this regard. It's a firm ride and yet I didn't get the feeling that it would be punishing on a rougher road. Very appropriate for this sort of bike.
Lots of reviewers have commented on feeling a lack of confidence in the front end, and even on this mini-test ride I could feel that. The light front end helps make it fairly adroit for the cruiser-ish chassis, but at the same time tends to disqualify it as a canyon carver. This is no surprise, and I actually think it's a good design choice given how most people will ride the V9.
I did get the feeling it would be stable and higher speeds, and so I think with the comfortable ergos the Roamer could be an excellent tourer provided you're willing to take it easy on the twisties. Not sure how that riding position would be on my lower back after a few hours. It's upright, but with a slight slouch and not easy to take that pressure off the spin for any length of time.
So will I be getting one? Quite possibly, yes. I've got my MV for serious riding. I want a lightweight Guzzi for knocking around town or go through Napa wine country with my wife on the back (she will never mount the towering Turismo Veloce). The V9 fits the bill, and it's definitely the kind of bike that is fun and cool to trundle around on a moderate speeds.
I'm just not sure it will do that stuff any better for me than a V7. The V9 is faster for sure, but with this kind of bike it's not obvious that it matters. The more powerful 850 gives more of a thrill, and that should count for a lot, but in terms of getting from point A to point B more quickly, both the V7 and V9 are limited by their chassis more than their power.
My personal calculation also takes into account that the V7 is cheaper, but then I would have to upgrade the suspension, which tends to minimize the cost differential. A properly set-up V7 will be much more fun that a V9 on the sort of twisty roads we're blessed with in NorCal, but then that's what my MV is for. My Guzzi will be for riding to piano gigs in the city or slow rides with my wife, and the better handling V7 won't have much advantage there.
The V9 exudes a higher sense of quality than the V7, so in that sense you're getting more for your buck, and it's reasonable to guess that it might end up being more reliable. But V7's are generally pretty reliable anyway.
So at this point I'm leaning towards a Bobber, but I'm not in any hurry. Might purchase one in the fall. But if nice used V7 comes along, I might get that instead and probably wouldn't have many regrets.
I know there's lot of folks who poo-poo getting a motorcycle just because it's cool (Mr. Roper, are you reading this?). I'm not one of those folks, and the V9 is one of the coolest bikes I've ever come across. Maybe it's a toy, but what an awesome toy!
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The average mpg reading when I got on read 46, and 7 miles later read 48. Based on that I'd guess at a constant 55 mph it could easily be in the low to mid 50's for mpgs. A windscreen would help with that as well.
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A couple other things I forgot to mention.
The throttle is a bit snatchy off the line. Not a big problem, but might detract a bit from experience for town work or stop and go traffic. At least the clutch lever is very light. Once moving, fueling is fine, no problems I could notice above 1 mph.
Others have commented on how the Roamer's bars are fairly close. It's true, but I didn't find it to be too awkward for casual riding. Also, it allows you to scootch well back on the seat while still having a comfortable grip. I didn't get to try this unfortunately, but I suspect on long stretches one might find a fairly comfortable position this way, one that stretches the legs out and gets the lower back out of its slouch. Obviously won't work with a pillion.
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Not to be too critical, and maybe I'm just thicker headed, but I'm at a loss at how you can in 7 miles and no curves decide it wouldn't be eligible as a canyon carver. Unless I'm looking at another subjective measurement and the bar isn't how much a V7 would do the canyon carving BETTER?
So am I just misunderstanding?
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Not to be too critical, and maybe I'm just thicker headed, but I'm at a loss at how you can in 7 miles and no curves decide it wouldn't be eligible as a canyon carver. Unless I'm looking at another subjective measurement and the bar isn't how much a V7 would do the canyon carving BETTER?
So am I just misunderstanding?
I did the best I could under the circumstances to get a sense of handling, including circling around an empty parking lot for several minutes. It wasn't a good test but it revealed to me a certain lack of confidence in feedback from the front end. The rest is extrapolation based on 35 years of riding, for what that's worth.
I'll admit that "canyon carver" is one of those phrases we throw around that ends up being sort of useless. If taking a twisty road at an easy speed that doesn't push the boundaries of the V9 feels like "canyon carving" to you, then who am I to deny it.
I don't understand your second sentence, so can't respond to it.
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The throttle is a bit snatchy off the line...
Isn't that a problem with almost all modern fuel-injected motorcycles? Well, perhaps Harley-Davidson has figured out how to do it right... My two Norges were snatchy as hell until I used GuzziDiag to upload a decent map (thanks, Beetle!).
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Adan,
Again thanks very much for sharing your V9 riding impressions. One of my interests when I do get to take a test ride: emergency braking response. I am hoping for improvement over my V7R (2012, no ABS). However, that is tough to do on a limited test ride, on a dealer's bike, with new tires.
Canyon carving especially in perspective of your other bike is really subjective. I get into the same issues going back and forth between the V7R and my Triumph STRX 675. The beasts are just incredibly different when cornered fairly aggressively. I have found it takes a lot of miles on varied roads to really determine how a bike handles in corners and hills. Let's hope Luigi remembered his Alpine roots? With time there will be more and more reviews of these bikes. I also expect Mandello to refine the design and perhaps broaden the range a bit.
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I did the best I could under the circumstances to get a sense of handling, including circling around an empty parking lot for several minutes. It wasn't a good test but it revealed to me a certain lack of confidence in feedback from the front end. The rest is extrapolation based on 35 years of riding, for what that's worth.
I'll admit that "canyon carver" is one of those phrases we throw around that ends up being sort of useless. If taking a twisty road at an easy speed that doesn't push the boundaries of the V9 feels like "canyon carving" to you, then who am I to deny it.
I don't understand your second sentence, so can't respond to it.
Sorry. I guess I was trying to gauge your metric for "Canyon Carver". To give us some common language, how would you guess the V9 would compare to the V7 in such terms.
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Sorry. I guess I was trying to gauge your metric for "Canyon Carver". To give us some common language, how would you guess the V9 would compare to the V7 in such terms.
I really should defer to folks who've had more substantial test rides on the V9. I was just trying to convey, confirming what others have said, that the V9 inspires a lack of confidence in the steering to a certain degree. It's not going to be problem for commuting or urban riding, but my guess is it's going to make itself felt very early as you start pushing into curves.
The V7 doesn't have this same feeling of being wobbly in the front. I always felt rather confident on it going through twisties. It doesn't fall in as easily as some bikes, but it was fairly good at holding a line.
I prefer the handling of the V7 to the V9, but the V9 has a lot of nice attributes, and the way I see myself using it, the handling wouldn't be a limitation. In case it wasn't clear, I liked it a lot.
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V9 in Urban crusier shoot out. They like it but it is out power by the other bikes.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/urban-sport-cruiser-shootout
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I rode that bike a fair bit farther than Adan did. The loop from the dealer is, shall we say, not challenging at all.
My V7 is set up proper with a RaceTec front end. I railed that V9 thru some nice sweepers and did not find it anything other that entirely acceptable. It's not like my Street 3 but fine nonetheless.
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I rode that bike a fair bit farther than Adan did. The loop from the dealer is, shall we say, not challenging at all.
My V7 is set up proper with a RaceTec front end. I railed that V9 thru some nice sweepers and did not find it anything other that entirely acceptable. It's not like my Street 3 but fine nonetheless.
I suspected it was a problem of scale. :thumb:
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Are we talking sweepers or twisties, 'cause that's an important difference. Granted, I didn't take the V9 through either, but I think I'm still going to associate myself with the majority of reviewers, professional and Wildguzzi-ists, who think the V9 isn't thoroughly confidence inspiring at the front end.
But I would emphasize again, it doesn't matter, because it's not that type of bike. You'll probably drag hard parts before you push it too hard.
I really didn't encounter anything in my test ride that made me not want to have this in my garage. But it's going to take several months to get finances together, and it's possible in that time I'll get tempted by a used Griso or V7 for several grand less.
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I finally had a look at the V9 Roamer and Bobber yesterday at my dealer in RI. A few impressions:
The fat tires on the Bobber could be a practical advantage on some of the poorer roads in New England, less chance of getting caught in railroad tracks and pavement gaps. But they look silly, in my opinion.
The saddles are surprisingly soft, and have real straps, unlike the phony straps on the V7's.
I couldn't see anything resembling a vent on the bevel drive. I'll have to consult a parts manual to see how venting is arranged. Also, there is some kind of rubber tab extending out of where the cush rubbers live. Is there a one-piece cush?
The protective shields over the injectors look a lot more functional, and less decorative, than the ones on the V7's
The gas caps are non-locking. I advised the dealer to have his parts department stock a few, they'll probably be needed.
The installed turn indicator lights, front and rear, are the Euro type, yellow bulb and clear lens, and are probably not DOT approved. Mistake at the factory?
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The horsepower ratting is interesting to me. The v7 series is rated at 48hp, and typically puts 40/41hp to the ground.
The v9s are rated at 55hp, but every dyno i have seen has had them at 50-52 at the ground.
Either the v9 is actually putting out more hp than the factory claims, or for some reason there is significantly less power loss in the drive train???
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The horsepower ratting is interesting to me. The v7 series is rated at 48hp, and typically puts 40/41hp to the ground.
The v9s are rated at 55hp, but every dyno i have seen has had them at 50-52 at the ground.
Either the v9 is actually putting out more hp than the factory claims, or for some reason there is significantly less power loss in the drive train???
I hadn't noticed that yet, but that IS interesting.
And if accurate, that means we're talking about 25% MORE hp at the rear wheel. That's not insignificant.
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I can not find a V9 in So. Cal for a test ride.
All the dealers I've talked to told me that their still waiting for the good old California Air Resources Board to approve the emissions.
From reading Adan's post it seems as though he rode one in Northern Calif. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Does any California dealer have one yet?
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Isn't that a problem with almost all modern fuel-injected motorcycles? Well, perhaps Harley-Davidson has figured out how to do it right... My two Norges were snatchy as hell until I used GuzziDiag to upload a decent map (thanks, Beetle!).
Gotta get that fancy exhaust can and then do the beetle map. Jeff how much is the map, also don't I need some special wiring connector too?
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I hadn't noticed that yet, but that IS interesting.
And if accurate, that means we're talking about 25% MORE hp at the rear wheel. That's not insignificant.
Yea well my "seat of the pants dyno" noticed more grunt than my V7, but not significantly (25%) more.
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I can not find a V9 in So. Cal for a test ride.
All the dealers I've talked to told me that their still waiting for the good old California Air Resources Board to approve the emissions.
From reading Adan's post it seems as though he rode one in Northern Calif. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Does any California dealer have one yet?
I thought he was catching a test ride when visiting NY state last week or something like that.
Yea well my "seat of the pants dyno" noticed more grunt than my V7, but not significantly (25%) more.
Yeah well, I generally don't put a lot of faith in the calibration of those dynos. :wink:
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I rode it in Buffalo, of all places, and wearing King of Fleece's helmet.
The CA Air Resources Board delay is weird, but I'm assuming it's just "paperwork" and not a real problem with the bike. I could try to use my connections to find out what's going on. But that would be wrong!
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V9's are finally available in California. If they had arrived on time, I would have one in my garage right now. Since I bought another bike in the mean time, it's going to be a little while, maybe next winter. Unless Guzzi announces something more interesting before then . . .
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Wow. Among some very nice and very stiff competition seems like the Guzzi almost gets the nod more than any of the others.
https://youtu.be/gy7o4m6RfQw
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https://youtu.be/gy7o4m6RfQw
Ex-f***ing-actly. Those guys are literally speaking my words, as if I wrote the script. So that proves what I was suspecting - there is a niche market that thinks exactly like I think and someone at Moto-Guzzi was smart enough to realize this. I mean, it does not take a wise ass to know there is a market for bikes that are ever more bigger, stronger, faster than their competitors, right? But it takes some balls to say "hey there is this niche market like that and we are going to have a production run of 1750 of these and it's gonna float our boat". I mean, have you seen this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_Guzzi#Production_figures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_Guzzi#Production_figures)? It's basically a family business hand-building collector items. We are only talking about the V9 because it's a MG forum, no-one else will ever even know about it. So they will sell those couple of thousand of V9s they will ever produce to the vast minority of people who can appreciate them, mark my words :wink:
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V9 vs Triumph ,Harley, Ducati ,Yamaha. Different take , a non review no winners, just ride what you like.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/heritage-lifestyle-characters-compete-on-cool-factor
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V9 vs Triumph ,Harley, Ducati ,Yamaha. Different take , a non review no winners, just ride what you like.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/heritage-lifestyle-characters-compete-on-cool-factor
That's actually the written article to the video I posted above. In the video they lay a bit more outright praise on the Roamer.
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Relatively easy to keep.. for a Ducati..
:smiley:
I thought the Sportster rider was impressed, even though Sure it'll scrape, its a Harley..
The Guzzi rider "gets it."
Nice video. I'm familiar with those roads.. makes me ready to go back out and exercise the MZ.
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From the article. "Not everyone has one, and hardly any non-bikers know what it is,” Thai comments. “And that is part of the charm. Oh, and here’s a bonus, included with purchase are some of the most knowledgeable bikers/mechanics on the planet. The community of Guzzi lovers borders on fanatical, and if you own one, you must be ‘in the know.’”"
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Here's a question for those who have ridden the V9 and the V7. Can you feel a weight difference in the two models. Is it more to hold up at stops if you tilt it a little to the side or does it feel heavier getting it up off the side stand, how about pushing it around when it is not running? And when you are riding does it feel heavier?
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neverquit I haven't ridden both but the V9 really feels light, the centre of gravity is so low. You only feel weight when you push it, but when you stop at a traffic light, there is no difference if it's the V9 or a 200cc scooter. My previous ride was the 500cc Royal Enfield C5 and by all means it felt exactly the same as the V9. Also, check the spec sheets, V7 and V9 weight and measurements are virtually equal.
That being said, at least the bobber needs more effort to lean into the corners than smaller bikes with skinnier front wheels. It's not a problem at all once you get a hang of it but when you come from a smaller bike and take your first mid-speed 90 degree turn, you may end up in the oncoming traffic lane :)
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Wow. Among some very nice and very stiff competition seems like the Guzzi almost gets the nod more than any of the others.
https://youtu.be/gy7o4m6RfQw
Press like this might double V9 sales in the U.S. From 100 to 200.
Fun video. It's great to see the retro bike movement growing and gaining momentum.
The V9 with it's odd tires and neither-fish-nor-foul ergonomics might not be the first choice for folks who already have a Guzzi, but it delivers the Guzzi experience in spades and is a great lure to bring new riders into the Guzzi fold.
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Current V9 configurations don't do it for me. Checked them out at new Houston dealer. Waiting and watching.
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I had a chance to visit Sloans in Murfreesboro on Saturday and saw bikes galore, including the Moto Guzzis. I've never ridden one, but always thought a sit test on the V7 felt awkward to the point of being uncomfortable in just a few minutes. For me, the bars are too low and forward, while the pegs are too high and forward, it just feels unnatural in a way that is immediately noticeable. All fixable I know, nearly any bike will need a bit of tweaking to fit. But the V9 felt like my favorite jeans and T-shirt in comparison, especially the Roamer. Relaxed knees and hips, and the bars right there, very much like my DR with Rox risers, and I have over 30,000 miles on that bike. Impressed the heck out of me, can't think of another bike that fit so well right out of the box. I'm not too keen on that yellow though, wish I could see one in white.
Sarah