Wildguzzi.com
General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: Scout63 on December 03, 2021, 04:51:37 PM
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Starting a brief thread on my refresh of Tom’s Spada. It’s in great original shape but needs updating. I’ve already replaced the rear tire, cleaned the sump, replaced the chromed rocker arm covers, bought a battery, replaced the fork seals and dust covers (provided by Tom), flushed the fuel tank, installed new fuel lines, greased rear splines and replaced the fluids. In process are carb and brake system rebuilds, front tire replacement, air filter replacement and engine and gearbox scrubbing. Yet to come are head and rocker arm gasket replacement, valve adjustment and points replacement. I took a peek at the bottom end from below and it looks great. Hopefully the whole process will take no more than two or three weeks.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jrvfff1/CAF7-AFFD-1-C6-E-4-ED3-8664-6-F0-ED0-F48-B3-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jrvfff1)
(https://i.ibb.co/HnxzvXW/8807-D359-3418-4-C31-9640-644879548468.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HnxzvXW)
(https://i.ibb.co/pRKzXTf/9-A3-A228-B-6860-4-F7-B-AE87-3-A3-A8-E8-D9-C6-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pRKzXTf)
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:popcorn:
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I thought he told me it needed a clutch?
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I thought he told me it needed a clutch?
That I didn’t know Charlie. I’ll check with Tom before I button it up. I would think the clutch should be fine with 20,300 miles on it. I’m not looking forward to crabbing a bike for the fourth time in three months. Thanks, Ben
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Further progress. Front tire installed, air box cleaned, engine degreased.
(https://i.ibb.co/rvj4TqF/56-BFF9-DA-5-F7-D-417-E-B18-A-998-B8-E08-C269.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvj4TqF)
(https://i.ibb.co/J2Mhbjx/4-B807092-B501-430-E-AABB-24-A945254-DD1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J2Mhbjx)
(https://i.ibb.co/RzQv6Kf/2-B47-D937-FC28-42-C6-8-C47-AE04-BB6-AFA08.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RzQv6Kf)
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I thought he told me it needed a clutch?
It was in the original ad Charlie. I explained to Ben that you and I talked about it and came to that conclusion.
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Tom’s right Charlie. I’m glad. I was feeling a little remiss in not checking the swing arm bearings, u-joint carrier bearing and clutch pushrod seals. While I’m down there I’ll check the rear main seal. Now I can do it right.
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It was a crabby Sunday. Clutch plates are ready for replacement. U-joint carrier bearing and u-joint look great. Part of me wants to just rip it all apart, paint the frame and strip and vapor hone the engine. The smart half says just put it back together with a good cleaning and have a solid runner with patina.
(https://i.ibb.co/TrgLq79/B833-A2-EF-EDAC-4235-BB58-E6-F5-B5-FA2012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TrgLq79)
(https://i.ibb.co/t3GYLZr/A381-D651-F767-47-BD-976-A-5-FC8-D4856-ACC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t3GYLZr)
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Flywheel off and re-marked. The rear main seal looks good but I will replace it and seal the cam plug. Calipers rebuilt with all new Brembo parts. Right side carb rebuilt.
(https://i.ibb.co/BNPHmyD/D7-D2-BADC-1-F30-4454-9144-0-A0-F5-CCC7418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BNPHmyD)
(https://i.ibb.co/mhqTmGv/05-A3-ECF5-CA66-405-D-B618-6-B5-B73-F61418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhqTmGv)
(https://i.ibb.co/r6YVgJ6/0-C2-AF8-FF-B8-CA-4-F5-A-8-E96-39-F56-C16-FBAE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r6YVgJ6)
(https://i.ibb.co/YpJVb5P/D40-F81-E1-7-F4-A-4-DF6-9-E65-BCA16-D6-EF31-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YpJVb5P)
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New clutch input hub oil seal installed. Clutch throwout bearing and pushrod inner body need replacing. Cam plug sealed. Carbs completed.
(https://i.ibb.co/pyxqZqz/D17-D42-EB-B3-CB-4-C41-825-A-35-D62-D740-B2-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pyxqZqz)
(https://i.ibb.co/3WLsQDX/D9580-E12-AF28-4-C6-C-896-E-1308-FF03-C76-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3WLsQDX)
(https://i.ibb.co/VQyChKk/11-F2-EA50-D4-B2-40-B6-9004-A9-DF64-C64-D83.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VQyChKk)
(https://i.ibb.co/9rJpwcX/847-FDE44-3-EC7-4347-81-C0-B1474726-C94-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9rJpwcX)
(https://i.ibb.co/6bP7CTQ/00931-A8-C-02-E2-4-D59-B3-E8-8-E8279-C62115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6bP7CTQ)
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Nice work! its going to be a good, dependable ride.
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Nice work! its going to be a good, dependable ride.
Thanks Canuck. I’m walking a fine line of updating everything while it is crabbed but also keeping the cost down so that I can flip it towards a Lemans. It’s hard not to make everything right. If I can keep my investment below about $3500.00 US, which is coming up soon, I should break even not counting labor.
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Clutch inner and outer bodies and throwout bearing need replacement, new rear main seal, new flywheel bolts, clutch plates, intermediate plate and ring gear bolts, gearbox disassembled and flushed, bearings checked. New gearbox output seal.
(https://i.ibb.co/Wpd1KCS/BCB5-C0-B3-1587-4-DD2-BB7-A-694-E83-FA889-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wpd1KCS) (https://i.ibb.co/ypwx7Zx/754-D4-C09-9-E4-D-46-F6-9-FCA-79-AB4810-B176.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ypwx7Zx) (https://i.ibb.co/4sWD8Cw/AE45596-F-3366-4718-A54-E-7-EF9-A679-CBFF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4sWD8Cw) (https://i.ibb.co/MG3c5dN/31-E27-F56-5-AB0-4-F4-E-AA5-F-75-A177-C4-D101.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MG3c5dN) (https://i.ibb.co/QKNxF9K/E1-F858-E7-D4-AA-4-DB1-8-F76-1972-B98544-E0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QKNxF9K) (https://i.ibb.co/gJBSpnf/D992912-E-014-D-44-D2-B481-279-B6-FE34-C09.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gJBSpnf) (https://i.ibb.co/R6jN8np/4-A84-E3-F4-83-BD-485-D-B691-6-A2-B5-CEE84-FF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R6jN8np) (https://i.ibb.co/rygGFgc/918786-A8-9-CAD-48-CD-ABA6-1-E8-AC2-ED7975.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rygGFgc) (https://i.ibb.co/smtB0Qq/4-EFF5864-4-DC2-4-CD6-9-AC2-5-CD1-D21482-E0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/smtB0Qq) (https://i.ibb.co/dksnvpm/42-BF0782-EFE5-4-A70-A107-66-AFC46-FFC2-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dksnvpm) (https://i.ibb.co/KyyDpRT/E7-E51-C14-06-CB-485-E-BC2-A-1964-D9416673.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KyyDpRT) (https://i.ibb.co/xDNGTJn/3-AC66248-54-D9-4-E1-C-8-BB0-CC3-FF3-FB64-CA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xDNGTJn)
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Gearbox reassembly. Always my most difficult part.
(https://i.ibb.co/pyrst81/FCAB3154-852-F-4-E40-8-F36-9891-DC409-B43.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pyrst81)
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Gearbox complete. They always give me fits. 6 pushrod o- rings and new inner and outer bodies and thrust bearing.
(https://i.ibb.co/PwXh5V7/49-B830-FF-AD20-418-C-B9-A0-CEA37197-FD17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PwXh5V7)
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Tried for an hour to fit the gearbox before realizing that I installed new 4mm clutch plates with an old style clutch hub. Back to MG Cycle (virtually) to order a clutch kit. Now I have spare plates for the G5. Another day, another lesson.
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Proper clutch hub installed, gearbox on, frame un-crabbed. I’m always glad when the frame is back together. Same feeling getting in over the Chatham bar.
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Proper clutch hub installed, gearbox on, frame un-crabbed. I’m always glad when the frame is back together. Same feeling getting in over the Chatham bar.
:gotpics:
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Gearbox complete. They always give me fits. 6 pushrod o- rings and new inner and outer bodies and thrust bearing.
You're my hero for getting your hands in that box.
How does it shift now that it's bolted to the engine?
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Front wheel installed, front calipers installed, front brake lines replaced. Battery installed with new hold down straps, new starter battery line built and fitted. New ring terminal on positive battery line. Frame bolts all tightened up.
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You're my hero for getting your hands in that box.
How does it shift now that it's bolted to the engine?
I just hooked up the shift lever tonight Pescatore. It shifts great through the gears. The boxes are pretty simple, just fiddly and there are a bunch of thrust washers and shims that have to go back in.
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Also I swapped footpeg brackets and hardware with Steve in Maine. He sent me a great set of Bubs that I might install just to listen to them.
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Swingarm bearings cleaned and greased with new oil seals, driveshaft, ujoint and boot cleaned, new rear drive large oil seal, fabricated new battery ground cable, rear splines cleaned and greased, rear wheel and brakes on, Koni rear shocks cleaned up and installed. I can’t get the top cylinder head bolt plugs off either side so that I can replace head gaskets. Ugh.
(https://i.ibb.co/pKg8jvT/534320-EC-0722-4-AD1-B946-FC29-CF169666.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pKg8jvT) (https://i.ibb.co/TPY6TtS/5-BA3-F635-F7-A7-40-D9-9802-C2-F1-DF02-E5-C0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TPY6TtS) (https://i.ibb.co/ypZtNwn/25-CC1-EF1-9578-4-E3-A-86-EC-21713-A17837-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ypZtNwn) (https://i.ibb.co/nmMbx4D/CE5249-B1-9738-4-C15-90-A7-5-A075-FB25245.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nmMbx4D) (https://i.ibb.co/PwqMdgX/8-A891079-1-CF6-4-FB1-B015-25-E61-CA8-B85-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PwqMdgX) (https://i.ibb.co/Jrjtvj6/D6-D1131-E-C545-4-F82-AC69-6146-FBEB3-EEE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jrjtvj6) (https://i.ibb.co/4Tn313F/FDA5017-B-19-D2-4-D99-9559-8-B80-AF7-DABE5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Tn313F)
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Heads off. There’s a strange chip in each exhaust valve. I’m going to have my excellent machinist Hans check the guides and sort the heads and valves. Pistons and cylinders look good.
(https://i.ibb.co/w01w5fF/221638-E0-D46-B-477-E-9-FB8-9-C09-F3-B5927-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w01w5fF)
(https://i.ibb.co/TqskQ9S/D18573-E6-D620-482-E-AF39-6086965-BA4-ED.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TqskQ9S)
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Heads off. There’s a strange chip in each exhaust valve. I’m going to have my excellent machinist Hans check the guides and sort the heads and valves. Pistons and cylinders look good.
Strange that both exhaust valves would have the same chip?
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Strange that both exhaust valves would have the same chip?
I know. Maybe it’s just carbon flaking off. I may have chipped one with the spring compressor. One was definitely chipped before though.
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I know. Maybe it’s just carbon flaking off. I may have chipped one with the spring compressor. One was definitely chipped before though.
Curious to hear what your machinist says. I took my Ducati 860 Heads to a good machine shop before Christmas and was told the damn Ducati guides I had installed two years and 2000 miles+ ago are worn out! I am going with Kibllewhite guides and seals this time.
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Curious to hear what your machinist says. I took my Ducati 860 Heads to a good machine shop before Christmas and was told the damn Ducati guides I had installed two years and 2000 miles+ ago are worn out! I am going with Kibllewhite guides and seals this time.
Weird. I don’t know much about heads, but I would think that guides should last a while barring oiling problems. Maybe grinding compound got in there? Doesn’t sound like something you would do Canuck.
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Strange that both exhaust valves would have the same chip?
I dropped the heads off at the machinist today. The chips were burnt exhaust valves. I ordered new valves and to be safe new guides.
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Weird. I don’t know much about heads, but I would think that guides should last a while barring oiling problems. Maybe grinding compound got in there? Doesn’t sound like something you would do Canuck.
I had the heads done at a reputable shop in town that I have used for over a decade, they told me the valve seats had been so poorly cut in the past that new seats had to be installed, new valves and new guides, now I did use the Ducati guides and since then I have learnt that OEM guides are just crap, still two summers of riding and the valves have a ridiculous amount of play in them.
The valve stems mic to spec so its definitley crap guides, perhaps they were contaminated, I will never know. The new Weisco piston kits are in transit from Australia so hopefuly the engine will have a new lease on life,... again, and my wallet is lighter once more. I thought BMW parts were expensive, Ducati prices are just silly.
On previous Guzzi head rebuilds I have always used new guides, springs and valves, in comparison they are pretty cheap.
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Maybe the Duc just wants you to spend more on her before she gets reliable. Definitely a bike worth putting up with. I ordered new springs and keepers just to be safe.
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Crank, gearbox and rear drive oils installed. No leaks. Brake fluid installed and systems bled. Both levers feel good. Rear tail light wires replaced as they had been modified for accessories. Tank and front fender compounded.
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Could you swing by my garage? I’ve got a sp1000 just waiting for all this…it’s already disassembled. I’ll give you a beer…two beers?
I’d be smarter to buy yours…your killing me
Want another one to put together?
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Could you swing by my garage? I’ve got a sp1000 just waiting for all this…it’s already disassembled. I’ll give you a beer…two beers?
I’d be smarter to buy yours…your killing me
Want another one to put together?
I would Chuck. I’d probably even pay you for the opportunity to drive to New Haven every evening to work on your SP. Of course I would pay for parts.
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Cylinders pulled, and bores, pistons and rings checked out fine. Cylinders back on with new base gaskets and o-rings. New points and base plate installed. I had previously modified the base plate to get some more adjustment range.
(https://i.ibb.co/0GWzhsQ/8-FDA1-FA2-D51-C-436-D-934-D-DA3-E4-FE5-FE78.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0GWzhsQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/X8XF8FX/1-FEEE20-B-A180-4-B18-A2-B4-46-AD3-C68-DE95.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X8XF8FX)
(https://i.ibb.co/M8rFCSs/88-A598-AE-3279-446-D-96-A1-0-D89-C161-DF4-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M8rFCSs)
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"I had previously modified the base plate to get some more adjustment range."
I've never understood how they got those bikes to run right from the factory. Personally I've given up on Guzzi points, hope I never had to deal with them again.
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"I had previously modified the base plate to get some more adjustment range."
I've never understood how they got those bikes to run right from the factory. Personally I've given up on Guzzi points, hope I never had to deal with them again.
I've found it necessary to modify the points plates on approx. 50% of the Tonti Guzzis I've worked on. Why some need it and some don't is a mystery to me. And no, I don't "fudge" the point gap to make it work either.
FWIW, 20k miles since I set the points and timing on my Convert, still in gap and timed correctly.
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I gave up and installed a Dyna III in the G5. Points are definitely my Waterloo. I’m reticent to install EI here since I may well sell the bike and it’s just money I won’t get back. The right side is set fine but the left not only opens about four degrees past TDC with no more adjustment room, it also is showing continuity when the points are open. Something is grounding them. I need a few hours of quiet time to chase it down.
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I've found it necessary to modify the points plates on approx. 50% of the Tonti Guzzis I've worked on. Why some need it and some don't is a mystery to me. And no, I don't "fudge" the point gap to make it work either.
FWIW, 20k miles since I set the points and timing on my Convert, still in gap and timed correctly.
Would things be different if the distributor was installed one tooth differently? Putting the second point into a easily adjustable position?
It is a bit fiddly when your dropping it into the case. Could a one tooth move solve the 50% antietam is fixing? Enquiring minds ..?
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I wonder Chuck. Not hard to try. The heads are off getting done so TDC is easy to check and the distributor is easy to get to. I’ll report back whether that is a solution. I’m not good at thinking those things through theoretically.
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Still waiting on the heads at the machinist. I can’t wait to button up the bike. I traded footpeg brackets with SPMoto in Maine so she will be sporting NT low pipes and fixed foot pegs. I’m always so excited to install headers and mufflers, then wrestle with them forever. Second only to gearbox rear covers for fiddlyness.
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Still waiting on the heads at the machinist. I can’t wait to button up the bike. I traded footpeg brackets with SPMoto in Maine so she will be sporting NT low pipes and fixed foot pegs. I’m always so excited to install headers and mufflers, then wrestle with them forever. Second only to gearbox rear covers for fiddlyness.
I hope your exhaust goes together fine, I can sure relate to fighting with exhaust;
I learnt the hard way that miss matching stainless headers with chrome cross over and mufflers on an Eldorado was a nightmare, the stainless headers sent the cross over to far rearward and hit the rear tire, took me a long time to figure out that I needed a matching stainless cross over from the same supplier to have any chance of getting the exhaust to fit. :thewife:
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I hope your exhaust goes together fine, I can sure relate to fighting with exhaust;
I learnt the hard way that miss matching stainless headers with chrome cross over and mufflers on an Eldorado was a nightmare, the stainless headers sent the cross over to far rearward and hit the rear tire, took me a long time to figure out that I needed a matching stainless cross over from the same supplier to have any chance of getting the exhaust to fit. :thewife:
Truer words Canuck. The Mistral stainless headers and cross-over on my G5 never line up right. The LaFranconi mufflers are located and line up with the mounts right, but there is a gap on one side. Ugh.
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I just picked up the heads from my favorite machinist Hans Westberg. New valves and guides and all set.
(https://i.ibb.co/KmX8sf1/6-F3635-E7-C0-B5-4-E6-A-8197-3-C59-CCE3-D9-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KmX8sf1)
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When you say you took a peek at the bottom end, how much of a peek? bearing caps? ....
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When you say you took a peek at the bottom end, how much of a peek? bearing caps? ....
I pulled the sump pan and literally peeked at the rod ends and crank. They looked shiny and clean.
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Any recent progess Ben?
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Any recent progess Ben?
Hey Tom. I was just thinking of you. I got the ignition timed, carbs installed, new fuel lines in and tank on yesterday. I cranked it over and got spark, but still need to put in fuel and see what happens. Your extra pipes are dry fitted, as I traded footpeg mounts with Steve in Maine. Here it is today:
(https://i.ibb.co/FbG4PZn/D4-B7-A2-DC-9-BA7-4590-AD5-F-FEB850-DDCB06.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FbG4PZn)
(https://i.ibb.co/KNWtzn6/2-F536-ABF-80-A3-47-DC-A0-D5-FB52-E067-C43-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KNWtzn6)
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Thanks for the update Ben. It looks great, can't wait to hear your impressions after you take it for a spin. :grin:
Tom
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Last post for this thread. I buttoned it up and fired it up and rode about 10 miles. Still need to adjust the carbs and retorque heads. Then on the market.
(https://i.ibb.co/CmQPd8Q/91943120-5-C13-4377-A237-54887-BDF5443.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CmQPd8Q)