Juris, Prudence!

[rodekyll]

Called in for my Friday evening check of jury duty.  Message says to check in Tuesday, 8:15A.  I walk to the courthouse and get ushered in to a room with 57 other people.  Festivities start at 9A with a newsreel of the joys of citizen participation in jurisprudence.  10A and we're still waiting -- mismatch between scheduled jurors, those signed in, and the questionnaire.  10:30 and they assign us seats.  The judge rambles on about gag orders and behavior expectations, and then asks each juror some specific questions.  The queue shortens by a few folks who have gone back to the judge's office and came out excused.  12:30 he's done and we break for lunch. 

1:30 and the prosecutor has some comments and stories.  She's trying to be likable.  She goes through the room asking most jurors qualifying questions.  She asks me if a child and an adult have different versions of the story, would I disbelieve the child or hold the child to a different standard than the adult based on age.  I say "Of course.  Children have no consequences if they lie, and they know it.  Children often don't know the difference between fantasy and fact and they can be easily 'influenced' to tell a story by others.  Children also have ulterior motives for not telling the truth, and it is socially acceptable for them to disengage from the conversation when they don't want to explain themselves."

2:45 and the defense guy is done with his questions.  He was also trying to be likeable, but he comes across as less.  He also mutters, making him hard for what's left of my one good ear to understand.  They gave me headphones to amplify the muttering, as though loud babbling is better than normal babbling.  People who hear perfectly just don't understand that clarity trump volume to the hard of hearing.  Heck -- even Garret Morris figured that part out.

3:00 and they're doing the preemptive dismissals -- the kind where they don't need a reason.  Just call the name and say bye-bye!  3:05 and I'm once again excused from a jury.  I don't know how many times I've been drafted --- never served.  So my opinions are unpopular in more venues than WG.   :( ;D

[charlie b]

LOL yep.  Jury duty is fun  :)  I did get picked for one (drug case) out of about 10 I've been hauled in on over the years (not counting military courts martials).  Usually having served as a Summary CM officer gets me excused (the classic judge, jury, executioner role).

I really wanted to serve on a murder trial but I had to admit to the judge that I would not be impartial in the case (two people claiming the other guy did it).

[Lannis]

LOL yep.  Jury duty is fun  :)  I did get picked for one (drug case) out of about 10 I've been hauled in on over the years (not counting military courts martials).  Usually having served as a Summary CM officer gets me excused (the classic judge, jury, executioner role).

I really wanted to serve on a murder trial but I had to admit to the judge that I would not be impartial in the case (two people claiming the other guy did it).

My brother the lawyer tells me that I will NEVER in my life be actually seated on a trial jury (i.e. not grand juries or special grand juries).    And I suspect that the reason would apply to quite a few here, as soon as they open their mouths to answer a question.

A lawyer is going to defend his client with every means possible.   He does NOT want jurors listening to his arguments that can actually evaluate evidence, that can spot fallacies in arguments, and that can sense when someone may be lying.   He wants people that are swayed by emotional arguments, that believe in pseudo-law as spun by the lawyer, and that will allow their sympathies toward his client, for whatever silly reason, to tend to make them vote HIS way, regardless of the actual guilt of his client.

So far, so good.

Lannis

[fotoguzzi]

I've been a registered voter over 40 years and never gotten the jury duty call.. knock on wood (real loud!)

[lorazepam]

Having done public service for 11 years between being a policemen and fireman, I don't get called for jury duty. Former PO's get the boot right at the start.

[Kentktk]

I just throw those Jury duty letters out. They aren`t certified or registered and I have no interest being a partner in a broken justice system.

[Arizona Wayne]

Obviously, Rk, you really didn't want to be on a jury.   Congratulations, you got your wish.  ;)

The less you say about your opinions in a jury interview, the better chance you will be on 1.  I've been on 3 attempts to make a jury.  The last time I was accepted.  :BEER:  It only took a day out of my life and I'm glad I did it.  The 2nd time I got skipped for jury duty the defendant pleaded guilty before an actual jury was chosen.  ~;

[Spuddy]

When it comes to criminal law the justice system, it is a racket.  The parties want a piece of the financial pie - judges, prosecutors, parole officers, corrections staff and prisons.  All justifying the essential need for their existence and expansion.

It may surprise some but there are quite a few innocent defendants, that but for aggressive, vindictive, jaded and/or manipulative prosecutors, have no business being in court on charges trumped up from what they really are, if there was an offense at all. 

When some defendants have had enough of the intimidation routine and go to trial, most often a jury is the only insulator from a loose wire prosecutor, hanging judges and a system stacked against those same defendants.

If by some quirk of fate you are behind the eight ball, would not you want some honest and sincere citizens in the jury box?  Let the chips fall where they may, but let them fall fairly.  It is an honor to at least try to to the right thing.  Serve.  Serve without reservation.

Spud

[Stormtruck2]

I have never even been called for jury duty.  If I ever am, I would be honored to serve.  Our founding fathers put that in system in the Constitution as a safety valve against government (prosecutor) animas, political skullduggary against a person, and abuse of the population by the administration.  They felt it was better "a thousand guilty go free rather than one innocent be convicted", a sentiment I agree with.   Much of the failure with the justice system today can be associated with the decline in the quality of jurors who actually sit in the jury box.   Some have said that they "don't want to be judged by people too stupid to get out of jury duty."  If I ever have a jury trial I would hope that people like Rodekyll ARE seated in that box. I want smart rational people making a judgement about the case against me, based on evidence.  Not prejudices and emotions.   Having worked in Corrections I have read the transcripts of many a trial, and had my doubts about very few. Most of them had to do with child sexual abuse.  The ones that I had questions about involved accusations by the wife against the husband  during divorce proceedings.   But, he was convicted, many by judge alone, and was under my supervision.    My job was not to doubt the court, that is the appeals courts job.  Is our system perfect, no, but what/where do you find a better one?? 

[56Pan]

I was called to jury duty a couple months ago.  First time, at 65.  Got selected.   Obvious to even the most casual observer that the defendant came from a broken home, had had very few breaks in his life, but was guilty as charged after 3 days of deliberations.  The crime was serious but was committed when he was drunk and/or drugged up.  He had a son about 5 yrs. old. It was the situation with his son being without a father for 9 yrs. that bothered me if we put him away.  I have two grown sons and I lost some sleep over it. However, I was impressed with our justice system and was glad to carry out this civic duty.  But it was not a pleasant thing at all, and I don't care if I'm ever called for it again. I'm much better dealing with defective machinery than defective people.

[Lannis]

I have never even been called for jury duty.  If I ever am, I would be honored to serve.  Our founding fathers put that in system in the Constitution as a safety valve against government (prosecutor) animas, political skullduggary against a person, and abuse of the population by the administration.  They felt it was better "a thousand guilty go free rather than one innocent be convicted", a sentiment I agree with.   Much of the failure with the justice system today can be associated with the decline in the quality of jurors who actually sit in the jury box.   

So far so good.   But the quality of the people in the jury box is generally not affected by people "trying to avoid" jury duty.   In our county, you are summonsed to jury duty by a sheriff's deputy who comes to your house and serves you with the summons, personally, so there isn't any "getting out of it" by just ignoring it.

The quality of the people in the jury box is determined by the trial lawyers.   As mentioned, they want people who CAN'T think, who don't understand the law, and whom they can manipulate in any way they can.   There are entire courses on "jury selection", and there are specialist lawyers who will advise you on how to challenge the ones you don't want.

The instant the defense lawyer finds out that I am by training a physicist and by experience an engineer and project manager, they will run from me like I have a stinger in my tail.    The only way that I would ever be on a trial jury is by lying about who I am and what I do, and there's a penalty associated with that, especially in a small town where the very cats in the street know who I and everyone else in town are and what we're about.

I don't know how you'd ever change that, but there it is .... If I'm wrong, we've got plenty of lawyers on this list who can tell me where I'm wrong, although I'll come back with a directory of "Jury Selection Specialists" for them ....  :D

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

I've been called to just duty twice, both in MD.  I was asked very few questions, and was selected both times.  The two cases were interesting.  One was an automobile rear-end accident with the woman being hit suing, and the other was a woman with a fractured wrist suing her gin and tonic serving hostess because the woman went looking for the bathroom and blindly walked out into a dark garage fell down a couple steps.

I learned a lot about real courtroom proceedings and the civil justice system.  In both cases, the plaintiff's case was severely flawed, and the defendant won.  Well, in the auto accident case, when we came in the 2nd day, we were told the defendant settled for his minimum insurance coverage amount because he got scared, but we were going to decide in his favor.

Watching TV courtroom scenes is much funnier after you see the real thing a couple times.   :D

[blackcat]

They never pick me.

The last time I was called for jury duty was for a marijuana case and I wanted to be picked but they asked the pool who was in favor of legalizing MJ and I quickly threw up my hand in approval. Mistake. I was in the parking lot five minutes later.

All the previous times I was called was for a drunk driving charge and they never pick me for those either so this was a nice change.

[56Pan]

So far so good.   But the quality of the people in the jury box is generally not affected by people "trying to avoid" jury duty.   In our county, you are summonsed to jury duty by a sheriff's deputy who comes to your house and serves you with the summons, personally, so there isn't any "getting out of it" by just ignoring it.

The quality of the people in the jury box is determined by the trial lawyers.   As mentioned, they want people who CAN'T think, who don't understand the law, and whom they can manipulate in any way they can.   There are entire courses on "jury selection", and there are specialist lawyers who will advise you on how to challenge the ones you don't want.

The instant the defense lawyer finds out that I am by training a physicist and by experience an engineer and project manager, they will run from me like I have a stinger in my tail.    The only way that I would ever be on a trial jury is by lying about who I am and what I do, and there's a penalty associated with that, especially in a small town where the very cats in the street know who I and everyone else in town are and what we're about.

I don't know how you'd ever change that, but there it is .... If I'm wrong, we've got plenty of lawyers on this list who can tell me where I'm wrong, although I'll come back with a directory of "Jury Selection Specialists" for them ....  :D

Lannis

Must be different in NC.  One of the guys on the jury with me was a mechanical engineer.  Another owned his own sizable construction business.  There were only two of them that I remember who might have been selected on your parameters.  Not the majority though.  They asked me my occupation and I told them "retired".  No questions concerning my previous employment.

[earemike]

Must be different in NC.  One of the guys on the jury with me was a mechanical engineer.  Another owned his own sizable construction business.  There were only two of them that I remember who might have been selected on your parameters.  Not the majority though.  They asked me my occupation and I told them "retired".  No questions concerning my previous employment.

My understanding was both sides had a limited number of challenges where you hadn't shown yourself to be biased. Perhaps the best of a bad/good bunch?

[Lannis]

My understanding was both sides had a limited number of challenges where you hadn't shown yourself to be biased. Perhaps the best of a bad/good bunch?

"Peremptory" challenges.   You can kick them off just because you don't like the color of their ... hair, or something.   "For Cause", you can take out as many as don't answer right ("I'm the defendents cousin"  "I don't believe in the death penalty"  "I believe in the death penalty"  "I don't like negroes" "What'd you say?   I'm too drunk to hear you")

Lannis

[Arizona Wayne]

The little I've actually been in court, I see things the way Lannis does.   At least 1 lawyer wants jurors who they think are easily manipulated.  :D

Can you say OJ Simpson case?

[Railroad Bob]

The little I've actually been in court, I see things the way Lannis does.   At least 1 lawyer wants jurors who they think are easily manipulated.  :D

Can you say OJ Simpson case?

Hi Wayne- I had a co-worker who was actually ON the Simpson Jury; worked down in the Los Angeles yards
during our rail days.  He was bumped off the jury by Judge Ito.  The other 11 "didn't want him on the panel."
It was an amazing story- he was going to vote GUILTY and there would have been a mistrial.  The whole thing
was a mess, as everyone knows.

Anyway, I like jury duty; never try to dodge it.  Been on several, at least 12-14.  One was high profile that involved
several months and a room full of cameras and reporters on the verdict day.  I understand why some ppl want to
get out of it, or just don't like it, etc.  For example, if you have a small business and will take a financial hit, that
guy I can understand.  Overall, I find the juries to be generally interesting, and it gives you a peek into the system.
There is nothing like the deliberation room process.  Once I got "elected" foreman and didn't care for it.  Generally
I get called every other year.  Our county uses the driver's license rolls, I believe.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Giv'em a fair trial beforeb hanging 'em.