Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Orange Guzzi on August 07, 2015, 08:16:26 AM
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I ordered two new tires for my Aluminium. In the past, the mechanic has always smashed big ugly chucks of steel or lead onto the spokes to balance the tire. The appearance is ugly let alone the thought of one of those chunks of metal coming of and hitting my frail old body at 80 mph.
I know there are other options to balancing tires (with tubes) out there. What has the Guzzi Guys and Gals used and what is your recommendation. Beads, stick on or spoke weights?
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Most times, I don't even balance mine. Not enough unsprung weight there to worry about.
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With the tires off the rims, balance the rims. Since doing that, I had not moved weights in years. Putting the dot at the valve stem means the tire/rim is balanced. And yes, I have checked the balance after mounting the tire.
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I use the band saw to cut slices of old automotive wheel weights, sand them smooth on the bench belt sander, and use 3M double sided foam tape to stick them on the rim. Last time I went to buy some, I was going to pay something like six or eight bucks for some weights and another six or eight bucks shipping, and wasn't willing to spend that much for the couple chunks of lead I was going to need. With a bucket of old weights in stock, I have motorcycle wheel weights on demand. :grin:
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Most times, I don't even balance mine. Not enough unsprung weight there to worry about.
Yeah, I've started to doubt the utility - meticulously balanced tire/wheel combos - with next tire change almost always note some of the stickons have flown away -> no discernible difference in ride.
Why do we bother? :undecided:
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I have done my own tires for decades. Generally, I never balanced them and never had any issues. I have never felt vibration, but I have seen the front lower fork tubes shake a bit. So I now give them a quick check to prevent odd wear, but don't obsess over it.
I have a static balancer. And I bought a pile of weights that crimp on the spokes from JP Cycle. Thought that would be a good idea, but like you, I never cared for them. I have Motion Pro lead stick on weights, which are now hard to find. I just bought a lot of steel stick on weights from Dennis Kirk. They come in black, chrome and grey. The black ones will hide on the Stelvio rims. The chrome for the EV chrome rims. And the grey for my friends. :laugh:
https://www.denniskirk.com/k-and-l/chrome-5-gram-steel-quickstick-wheel-weights.p283511.prd/283511.sku
Just remember. If you do not balance them, you likely will never notice. That is why people think those beads work. You can leave the beads on the work bench and still think they worked.
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try Ride On http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html
works well for me and the added bonus of a sealant for punctures. Works in both tube and tubeless. Washes or wipes out easy.....
Mark
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Last time I got tires for the Cali II the guy insisted on checking the balance but gave me the weights to stick on.
They seem to work well in my jacket pocket.
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try Ride On http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html
works well for me and the added bonus of a sealant for punctures. Works in both tube and tubeless. Washes or wipes out easy.....
Mark
On my last tire change I took all the weights off the rim and just used Ride-on. Not sure if it was my expectation.....but it seemed to ride smoother. There was a notable difference. Maybe the new tires or my mind telling me the new stuff was doing it's thing. I like it and always use it now. :thumb:
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try Ride On http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html
works well for me and the added bonus of a sealant for punctures. Works in both tube and tubeless. Washes or wipes out easy.....
Mark
This ^ I used it for the first time on my G5 with new Pirellis and it's a great concept, and works well. No more lead chunks for me.
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I hate the look of wheel weights.
On spoke wheels w/ tubes I use 95/5 solder wrapped around the spokes.
On tubeless tires I use CounterAct balance beads.
On cast wheels w/ tubes I use stick on's :angry:
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I do a basic static balance then I add Ride On.
I use the stuff for puncture protection, but I seem to notice a very smooth ride with the stuff. ( Could very well be in my mind )
...and the stuff stays in the tire and doesn't fling all over the wheel.
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A local shop installed tires for me years ago, and he didn't balance the wheels, and said it wasn't necessary unless I planned on riding well over 100MPH. He told me to give it a try, and if I noticed anything weird, he would install weights. Never did notice any strange vibrations, but when I install my own tires, I balance them because I have a balancer, and it doesn't take much time.
Ken
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I always balance mine because it's quick and easy to do. Even though you may not feel it, an out of balance wheel is not very kind to wheel bearings.
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Get the best balance job you can, after that mount the wheels and with the bike on the center stand see what happens when you run it in gear at anything over a few miles per hour. That balance job suddenly appears rather useless. Unless you balance with the wheels mounted it's a halfway job. The pebbles that might get stuck in the tread discount the balance too.
As far as wheel bearings go, those wheels are hopping up and down like crazy unless you are riding on smooth blacktop anyway. People are riding on road, off-road, over bumps and hitting dips, the balance isn't what is going to do your bearings in.
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Unless you balance with the wheels mounted it's a halfway job.
Please elaborate.
Motorcycle wheels are balanced with all the moving parts in place on the balancer.
If it's balanced on the balance machine's spindle, it will be balanced on the motorcycle's axle.
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Get the best balance job you can, after that mount the wheels and with the bike on the center stand see what happens when you run it in gear at anything over a few miles per hour. That balance job suddenly appears rather useless. Unless you balance with the wheels mounted it's a halfway job. The pebbles that might get stuck in the tread discount the balance too.
As far as wheel bearings go, those wheels are hopping up and down like crazy unless you are riding on smooth blacktop anyway. People are riding on road, off-road, over bumps and hitting dips, the balance isn't what is going to do your bearings in.
me thinks he is referring to static vs. dynamic (spin balancing).....
Mark
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I do balance.
Put the wheel on the axle and support the ends of the axle (usually putting one end on a table and holding the other in my hand). If it is out of balance one of the small square wheel weights stuck on the high spot usually does it. Takes 5 min. Most of the time the tire and wheel are balanced without adding any lead.
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I use these chromed slide-on weights for spoked wheels, and the plain old stick-on weights for cast wheels.
http://www.amazon.com/Supply-Non-Lead-Compliant-Spoke-Weights/dp/B007GR4ZMY
Maybe I'm just hypersensitive but I can definitely tell when the front wheel is 1/2 Oz off., especially during fast transitions. The rear? Maybe not so much... but it's so easy to do, and the process of balancing forces me to look the mounted tire over one last time before putting it back on the bike.
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Dyna Beads by this lot http://innovativebalancing.com/mobile/
Used on my car (summer and winter tyres) and both bikes.
I have recycled them through tyre changes too and they have maintained integrity and kept tyres in perfect balance.
Adam
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I like the reusable spoke weights I bought on eBay. I see NoMar is selling them now too. Have a tough time getting the stick on weights to stay on at all.
I use a Marc Parnes static balancer.
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As far as wheel bearings go, those wheels are hopping up and down like crazy unless you are riding on smooth blacktop anyway. People are riding on road, off-road, over bumps and hitting dips, the balance isn't what is going to do your bearings in.
Common misconceptions on how antifriction bearings work. The loads from road irregularities are transmitted through the bearings in a relatively soft manner, cushioned by pneumatic tires and sophisticated damper units. Bearings are designed to handle these loads with ease for many miles. They are not however so good at resisting wear from high speed cyclical loading and unloading from unbalanced assemblies. Accelerated wear can show up as a frosted appearance on the balls (motorcycle) and witness marks on outer races (tapered rollers on cars). This is why co.'s that make million dollar machining centers spend a lot of time making sure their spindle and drive ass. are balanced (whatever crazy load the customer applies is on him). In short--imbalance does cause accelerated bearing wear.
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I use the Dyna Beads too. Convenient "balancing", especially after a flat on the road. After having a flat on the V7C one trip, I replaced the tube, but didn't get around to checking the balance. The tyre was worn at 8,000 km. I suspect the lack of balance contributed to the unusual wear. I've used the Dyna beads ever since and my spare tube now has the beads inside. Mind you, a front tyre (Avon AM26) professionally installed & balanced by a tyre specialist (Pablos in Melbourne) lasted 55,000 km on the V7C. I am now running another AM26, with balance balls, to compare. Continued experience may tell if it actually works, but so far, so good.
Mal
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Have had some sensitive bikes. Dynabeads smoothed things out. Set of beads now are now in third set of tires. Eliminated cupping on the first bike. Hate the look of weights! And can tell if they fly off.
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What!!!!!! Am I the only guy still wrapping solder around the spokes?
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Dyna beads. Just had some mounted up and the shop used them. No issues
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With the tires off the rims, balance the rims. Since doing that, I had not moved weights in years. Putting the dot at the valve stem means the tire/rim is balanced. And yes, I have checked the balance after mounting the tire.
Have to agree. After years of meticulous balancing, I just didn't bother with the last set. No perceptible difference and I cruise about 80 - 85.
TT
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I have a static balancer and just stick some ugly weights on the rim. I balanced the bare wheels and marked an H on the Heavy spots inside the rims - which were close to, but not exactly at, the valve stems.
I think it's kind of fun to balance the wheels - and I believe it's easier on the bearings, even I can't feel the difference in the ride.
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What!!!!!! Am I the only guy still wrapping solder around the spokes?
Check post #10.
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Check post #10.
Thanks, I feel better, now.
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I did not expect wheel balancing to be such a controversial topic. I am really confused now.
I was really interested in what types of weights work best and look best. The smashed lead weights on the spokes look crappy. The chromed steel weights look o.k. How do you get the beads inside the inner tube valve steam? I can tell the difference in a balanced wheel and non balanced wheel.
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I did not expect wheel balancing to be such a controversial topic. I am really confused now.
I was really interested in what types of weights work best and look best. The smashed lead weights on the spokes look crappy. The chromed steel weights look o.k. How do you get the beads inside the inner tube valve steam? I can tell the difference in a balanced wheel and non balanced wheel.
Check out Dyna Beads site it will show you. Basically they give you a bottle with a nozzle and short piece of hose. Remove the Schrader valve connect the hose and dump them in. It does help to gently tap on the hose to keep the beads from breeching.
Counteract beads are the same only different. Dyna Beads are ceramic and CounterAct are Teflon coated tempered glass. CounterAct beads are all I use as they are significantly cheaper about a $1 per ounce via ebay. I buy four 16 ounce bags at a time. For measuring them out the small black caps on cans of brake cleaner (approximately 1-1/4 in diameter and about the same tall) filled level are 1 ounce. Most bikes use 1 ounce of beads in the front and 2 ounces (up to 180 series) in the rear.