Author Topic: Tire Balancing options  (Read 7189 times)

Orange Guzzi

  • Guest
Tire Balancing options
« on: August 07, 2015, 08:16:26 AM »
I ordered two new tires for my Aluminium.   In the past, the mechanic has always smashed big ugly chucks of steel or lead onto the spokes to balance the tire.  The appearance is ugly let alone the thought of one of those chunks of metal coming of and hitting my frail old body at 80 mph. 

I know there are other options to balancing tires (with tubes) out there.  What has the Guzzi Guys and Gals used and what is your recommendation.  Beads, stick on or spoke weights?

Offline kballowe

  • - Kevin the Great -
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2781
  • Location: Villa Ridge, Missouri
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 08:20:56 AM »
Most times, I don't even balance mine.  Not enough unsprung weight there to worry about.

Offline HDGoose

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13574
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 08:37:29 AM »
With the tires off the rims, balance the rims. Since doing that, I had not moved weights in years. Putting the dot at the valve stem means the tire/rim is balanced. And yes, I have checked the balance after mounting the tire.

Offline Triple Jim

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5930
    • Lakeland Services Company
  • Location: North Central North Carolina
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2015, 08:41:03 AM »
I use the band saw to cut slices of old automotive wheel weights, sand them smooth on the bench belt sander, and use 3M double sided foam tape to stick them on the rim.  Last time I went to buy some, I was going to pay something like six or eight bucks for some weights and another six or eight bucks shipping, and wasn't willing to spend that much for the couple chunks of lead I was going to need.  With a bucket of old weights in stock, I have motorcycle wheel weights on demand.   :grin:
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2015, 08:41:03 AM »

Offline wrbix

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2015, 09:09:12 AM »
Most times, I don't even balance mine.  Not enough unsprung weight there to worry about.
Yeah, I've started to doubt the utility - meticulously balanced tire/wheel combos - with next tire change almost always note some of the stickons have flown away -> no discernible difference in ride.
Why do we bother?  :undecided:
Bill in VA, sometimes FL

"Eschew aphorism"

LeMans IV - "Giulia"
Lario - "Giulietta"
V50III cafe'd - "Leggera"
‘77 Convert - “Sofia”
BMW airheads: R100RS, R100CS, R100GS, R100RT, R60/2 sidecar rig
Classic Mini
‘60 Austin Healey Sprite
Caterham Super Seven Sprint
‘13 Audi TTRS
Grumman AA5B (sold)

Offline Wayne Orwig

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 13908
    • Hog Mountain weather
  • Location: Hog Mountain
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2015, 09:14:21 AM »
I have done my own tires for decades. Generally, I never balanced them and never had any issues. I have never felt vibration, but I have seen the front lower fork tubes shake a bit. So I now give them a quick check to prevent odd wear, but don't obsess over it.
I have a static balancer. And I bought a pile of weights that crimp on the spokes from JP Cycle. Thought that would be a good idea, but like you, I never cared for them. I have Motion Pro lead stick on weights, which are now hard to find. I just bought a lot of steel stick on weights from Dennis Kirk. They come in black, chrome and grey. The black ones will hide on the Stelvio rims. The chrome for the EV chrome rims. And the grey for my friends.  :laugh:
https://www.denniskirk.com/k-and-l/chrome-5-gram-steel-quickstick-wheel-weights.p283511.prd/283511.sku

Just remember. If you do not balance them, you likely will never notice. That is why people think those beads work. You can leave the beads on the work bench and still think they worked.


Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline Markcarovilli

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: NE Ohio
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2015, 09:19:16 AM »
try Ride On http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

works well for me and the added bonus of a sealant for punctures.   Works in both tube and tubeless.  Washes or wipes out easy.....

Mark

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2015, 09:37:26 AM »
Last time I got tires for the Cali II the guy insisted on checking the balance but gave me the weights to stick on.
They seem to work well in my jacket pocket.
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline Caffeineo

  • Guzzi B00b
  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 937
  • Location: Nampa, Idaho
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 09:38:08 AM »
try Ride On http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

works well for me and the added bonus of a sealant for punctures.   Works in both tube and tubeless.  Washes or wipes out easy.....

Mark

On my last tire change I took all the weights off the rim and just used Ride-on. Not sure if it was my expectation.....but it seemed to ride smoother. There was a notable difference. Maybe the new tires or my mind telling me the new stuff was doing it's thing. I like it and always use it now.  :thumb:
2022 Moto Guzzi V85
2018 Husky 701
2023 Husky TX300

Offline Groover

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2855
  • If it ain't broke, I'll break it.
    • Scooteropolis
  • Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 09:51:25 AM »
try Ride On http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

works well for me and the added bonus of a sealant for punctures.   Works in both tube and tubeless.  Washes or wipes out easy.....

Mark

This ^ I used it for the first time on my G5 with new Pirellis and it's a great concept, and works well. No more lead chunks for me.

1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, a
1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
1980 Piaggio Vespa P200E
1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
1980 Vespa Grande Moped
1980 Vespa SI Moped
http://scooteropolis.com/

Offline Perazzimx14

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5974
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 10:16:20 AM »
I hate the look of wheel weights.

On spoke wheels w/ tubes I use 95/5 solder wrapped around the spokes.

On tubeless tires I use CounterAct balance beads.

On cast wheels w/ tubes I use stick on's  :angry:
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 10:18:58 AM by Perazzimx14 »
2021 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2017 V7 III Carbon Dark #0008 of 1921
2017 Road Glide Special
2020 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2016 Suzuki Van Van 200

Offline ken farr

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1761
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 10:23:21 AM »
I do a basic static balance then I add Ride On.

I use the stuff for puncture protection, but I seem to notice a very smooth ride with the stuff.  ( Could very well be in my mind )

...and the stuff stays in the tire and doesn't fling all over the wheel.
ken farr
06 B1100 - click!
Fillmore, Ca.

Offline Moto Fugazzi

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1715
  • Waiting on a sign from God, or a nod from hell.
    • Griso
  • Location: Milwaukee
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 10:36:56 AM »
A local shop installed tires for me years ago, and he didn't balance the wheels, and said it wasn't necessary unless I planned on riding well over 100MPH. He told me to give it a try, and if I noticed anything weird, he would install weights. Never did notice any strange vibrations, but when I install my own tires, I balance them because I have a balancer, and it doesn't take much time.
Ken

Ken
2004 V11 Cafe Sport
2009 V7C White
2007 Griso Black-Sold
1978 V50 II Blue-Sold

Offline clubman

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 552
  • Location: South Georgia
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 11:12:15 AM »
I always balance mine because it's quick and easy to do. Even though you may not feel it, an out of balance wheel is not very kind to wheel bearings.
V7C (gone to a good home),'04 Coppa Italia (Oh my!), OSSA Explorer Street Tracker,'17 KTM 690 Duke, Monster 900S,  KTM 790S Adventure, Speed Triple 1050S (yow!)

canuguzzi

  • Guest
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2015, 11:38:47 AM »
Get the best balance job you can, after that mount the wheels and with the bike on the center stand see what happens when you run it in gear at anything over a few miles per hour. That balance job suddenly appears rather useless. Unless you balance with the wheels mounted it's a halfway job. The pebbles that might get stuck in the tread discount the balance too.

As far as wheel bearings go, those wheels are hopping up and down like crazy unless you are riding on smooth blacktop anyway. People are riding on road, off-road, over bumps and hitting dips, the balance isn't what is going to do your bearings in.

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24010
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2015, 11:43:19 AM »
  Unless you balance with the wheels mounted it's a halfway job. 

Please elaborate.

Motorcycle wheels are balanced with all the moving parts in place on the balancer.

If it's balanced on the balance machine's spindle, it will be balanced on the motorcycle's axle.
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Markcarovilli

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: NE Ohio
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2015, 12:12:17 PM »
Get the best balance job you can, after that mount the wheels and with the bike on the center stand see what happens when you run it in gear at anything over a few miles per hour. That balance job suddenly appears rather useless. Unless you balance with the wheels mounted it's a halfway job. The pebbles that might get stuck in the tread discount the balance too.

As far as wheel bearings go, those wheels are hopping up and down like crazy unless you are riding on smooth blacktop anyway. People are riding on road, off-road, over bumps and hitting dips, the balance isn't what is going to do your bearings in.

me thinks he is referring to static vs. dynamic (spin balancing).....

Mark

Offline charlie b

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6941
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2015, 12:43:49 PM »
I do balance.

Put the wheel on the axle and support the ends of the axle (usually putting one end on a table and holding the other in my hand).  If it is out of balance one of the small square wheel weights stuck on the high spot usually does it.  Takes 5 min.  Most of the time the tire and wheel are balanced without adding any lead.


1984 850 T5 (sold)
2009 Dodge Cummins 2500

Offline Steve Scott

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4264
  • Ride, Fettle, Repeat
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2015, 01:06:36 PM »
I use these chromed slide-on weights for spoked wheels, and the plain old stick-on weights for cast wheels.
http://www.amazon.com/Supply-Non-Lead-Compliant-Spoke-Weights/dp/B007GR4ZMY

Maybe I'm just hypersensitive but I can definitely tell when the front wheel is 1/2 Oz off., especially during fast transitions. The rear? Maybe not so much... but it's so easy to do, and the process of balancing forces me to look the mounted  tire over one last time before putting it back on the bike.
'79 Morini 500S
'00 'Guzzi Jackal
'67 Teisco ET-440
Spring Grove, PA USA

Offline flangeman_70

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2015, 01:31:40 PM »
Dyna Beads by this lot http://innovativebalancing.com/mobile/
Used on my car (summer and winter tyres) and both bikes.
I have recycled them through tyre changes too and they have maintained integrity and kept tyres in perfect balance.

Adam
You only went to school to learn how to learn

Adam

SP III 1990
V10 Centauro 1996

Offline gscott

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 125
  • Location: Olympia, WA
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2015, 02:52:57 PM »
I like the reusable spoke weights I bought on eBay. I see NoMar is selling them now too.  Have a tough time getting the stick on weights to stay on at all.
I use a Marc Parnes static balancer.
2007 Norge - silver
2000 Quota - black
2000 V11 Sport - green
2000 V11 Bassa - pearl white (the one I sold)

Offline clubman

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 552
  • Location: South Georgia
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2015, 03:53:51 PM »

As far as wheel bearings go, those wheels are hopping up and down like crazy unless you are riding on smooth blacktop anyway. People are riding on road, off-road, over bumps and hitting dips, the balance isn't what is going to do your bearings in.

Common misconceptions on how antifriction bearings work. The loads from road irregularities are transmitted through the bearings in a relatively soft manner, cushioned by pneumatic tires and sophisticated damper units. Bearings are designed to handle these loads with ease for many miles. They are not however so good at resisting wear from high speed cyclical loading and unloading from unbalanced assemblies. Accelerated wear can show up as a frosted appearance on the balls (motorcycle) and witness marks on outer races (tapered rollers on cars). This is why co.'s that make million dollar machining centers spend a lot of time making sure their spindle and drive ass. are balanced (whatever crazy load the customer applies is on him). In short--imbalance does cause accelerated bearing wear.
V7C (gone to a good home),'04 Coppa Italia (Oh my!), OSSA Explorer Street Tracker,'17 KTM 690 Duke, Monster 900S,  KTM 790S Adventure, Speed Triple 1050S (yow!)

Offline malik

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2377
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2015, 04:21:08 PM »
I use the Dyna Beads too. Convenient "balancing", especially after a flat on the road. After having a flat on the V7C one trip, I replaced the tube, but didn't get around to checking the balance. The tyre was worn at 8,000 km. I suspect the lack of balance contributed to the unusual wear. I've used the Dyna beads ever since and my spare tube now has the beads inside.  Mind you, a front tyre (Avon AM26) professionally installed & balanced by a tyre specialist (Pablos in Melbourne) lasted 55,000 km on the V7C. I am now running another AM26, with balance balls, to compare. Continued experience may tell if it actually works, but so far, so good.

Mal
2010 V7 Classic, 2014 V7 Special
1996 1100 Sport Carb (in NZ), 2004 V11 LeMans (in UK)
Carberry Enfield V-Twin, 2008 Royal Enfield Electra, 2006 RE Electra 535

Offline toaster404

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2015, 05:00:00 PM »
Have had some sensitive bikes.  Dynabeads smoothed things out.  Set of beads now are now in third set of tires. Eliminated cupping on the first bike.  Hate the look of weights!  And can tell if they fly off.

Offline jbell

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 926
  • Some progress
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2015, 06:53:14 PM »
What!!!!!!  Am I the only guy still wrapping solder around the spokes?
'75 Ducati 860 GT  On the road
'76 Guzzi T3   Future project
'78 Guzzi G5  Current project
'81 Guzzi G5  Organ donor
'92 BMW K75RT  On the road
'16 Triumph Thruxton R  "Holy Moly"  Gone but not forgotten, sigh.


"Be yourself, everyone else is taken".......Oscar Wilde

Offline Noguzznoglory

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
  • Location: Florida Panhandle
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2015, 07:06:20 PM »
Dyna beads. Just had some mounted up and the shop used them. No issues
93 750 Nighthawk
73 Honda CB350
73 Honda CL450
04 Breva 750
15 Norge
16 VERSYS 650

Offline Tobit

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2504
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2015, 09:52:12 PM »
With the tires off the rims, balance the rims. Since doing that, I had not moved weights in years. Putting the dot at the valve stem means the tire/rim is balanced. And yes, I have checked the balance after mounting the tire.

Have to agree.  After years of meticulous balancing, I just didn't bother with the last set.  No perceptible difference and I cruise about 80 - 85.

TT
Roman, '86 LM IV

I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol

Offline Scud

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1192
  • Location: Carlsbad, CA
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2015, 12:21:08 AM »
I have a static balancer and just stick some ugly weights on the rim. I balanced the bare wheels and marked an H on the Heavy spots inside the rims - which were close to, but not exactly at, the valve stems.

I think it's kind of fun to balance the wheels - and I believe it's easier on the bearings, even I can't feel the difference in the ride.
1989 Moto Guzzi LeMans
2002 Moto Guzzi V11 Sport Scura
2017 Husqvarna 701 Enduro
2017 Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX
2020 Yamaha TW200

Offline Perazzimx14

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5974
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2015, 05:25:25 AM »
What!!!!!!  Am I the only guy still wrapping solder around the spokes?

Check post #10.
2021 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2017 V7 III Carbon Dark #0008 of 1921
2017 Road Glide Special
2020 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2016 Suzuki Van Van 200

Offline jbell

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 926
  • Some progress
Re: Tire Balancing options
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2015, 11:53:53 AM »
Check post #10.


Thanks, I feel better, now.
'75 Ducati 860 GT  On the road
'76 Guzzi T3   Future project
'78 Guzzi G5  Current project
'81 Guzzi G5  Organ donor
'92 BMW K75RT  On the road
'16 Triumph Thruxton R  "Holy Moly"  Gone but not forgotten, sigh.


"Be yourself, everyone else is taken".......Oscar Wilde

 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here