Tire changer merged thread

[kirby1923]

I couldn't agree less. Since I started using the Coats 200 changer, I wondered why I didn't buy one much sooner and there's no way I want to go back to doing it any other way.

I have to agree w/that. I have a floor mounted changer tool similar to the coats and is by far one of the most important (and great) purchases I have done for my riding activities.

It frees me up to change when ever I want at my schedule and I get to inspect the wheels, bearings and brake pads to boot.

I can remove the wheels/tires install and remount tires and balance in 1 hour on my 1150 rockster. A little longer on the CX as a jack is involved and the wheels need to be cleaned up for easy bead seat.

Costs, just labor..zip.

 Its paid for itself many times over in the past 10 years or so.

I might mention that there are 4 bikes and when I was working in the states, about 6 to 7 sets a year.

So a no brainer for my needs.

I can't imagine being w/o it anymore.

[Wayne Orwig]

I had a No Mar for a while.  It's not as easy as it looks in the videos.  The low sidewall kinds of tires are pretty hard to remove and mount.

I was at a show here in Atlanta long ago, and No-Mar was there doing demos. All day long, they put this big wide floppy tire on and off of this big wide rim. That tire was so soft, and had so much sidewall, you could simple slap the tire on the rim, and it would have been mounted. I literally saw them do that a couple of times. I asked them why they did not demo a tire that was a challenge, like a knobby with rimlocks. The salesman snapped back with this story about how that 'big tire' was harder to mount than a whimpy knobby on a narrow rim.

That stupid comment is the reason I ignore No-Mar. My Harbor Freight does a fine job.
 

[Perazzimx14]

I was at a show here in Atlanta long ago, and No-Mar was there doing demos. All day long, they put this big wide floppy tire on and off of this big wide rim. That tire was so soft, and had so much sidewall, you could simple slap the tire on the rim, and it would have been mounted. I literally saw them do that a couple of times. I asked them why they did not demo a tire that was a challenge, like a knobby with rimlocks. The salesman snapped back with this story about how that 'big tire' was harder to mount than a whimpy knobby on a narrow rim.

That stupid comment is the reason I ignore No-Mar. My Harbor Freight does a fine job.
 

\

So what tires did you watch them change at the Harbor Freight booth?

[Wayne Orwig]

So what tires did you watch them change at the Harbor Freight booth?

None of course, but they did not give me any BS stories. I knew what I was getting up front.

[Lannis]

I would have never bought a tire machine if it weren't for a local shop charging me some outlandish amount to install an overpriced tire on a wheel I brought in. PLus I had to drop it off one day and pick it up the next. I ended up spending something like $300 on a what would now costs me $120 in tire and 10 minutes labor.

Well, the $15/while-u-wait deal may not go on forever, I suppose.    While the shop owner and I were talking about "what will you charge me to change one if I buy it somewhere else?", he said "I'll make it easy, I'll match the price + shipping that you're paying on the internet", so not only am I not paying some horrific price for labor, I'm not paying a horrific price for tires either.

If I had clip-joints-masquerading-as-bike-shops like some of you guys seem to have, it would be my last time in there too ... !

[Toecutter]

Well, I wouldn't call Corporate Honda a "clip joint". Fact is... it's how it is around here. There aren't any independent bike shops. When I was living in the city... the indie guys could charge a high fee, because the corporate dealers set the bar.

I live in a country with less people than the state of California. I'd hazard a guess that more bikes show up at Sturgis than are on the roads at any given time in Canada. Hell, there's probably more bikes *stolen* at Sturgis than there are on the road in my province at any given time.

Now... I'm not gonna go buy a multi-thousand dollar machine, like some folks on here (mind you, I also crap myself at the prices some of you see as "reasonable" for old Guzzis), but any rig under $800 or so would be a smart investment for me.

[Chuck in Indiana]

If I had clip-joints-masquerading-as-bike-shops like some of you guys seem to have, it would be my last time in there too

That's what bought me a HF tire changer. $42 to change a tire that takes them all of 10 minutes?? Tops?? In Indiana??? Give me a break. When I was out in SoCal, I took both wheels off the MZ to Todd at Guzzitech, and he tried to charge me $40 for both. Not going to happen.
I gave him more.

[Lannis]

Well, I wouldn't call Corporate Honda a "clip joint". Fact is... it's how it is around here. There aren't any independent bike shops. When I was living in the city... the indie guys could charge a high fee, because the corporate dealers set the bar.

I was just going by this ....

"The only bike shop in town charges an hour labour per tire for mounting and balancing. That's a hair over $200 a set.   Back in the city, when I was there... I could get it done for about $50 a tire."

I mean, does that seem reasonable to you, or anyone?   It's one thing to have high rents for your building, or be paying your shop help $3000 a week, and have a high shop rate.

But charging you an HOUR labor for mounting and balancing a tire?   That's worse than a "clip joint", that's a straight-up ripoff, I don't care how big their "HONDA" sign is.   Thievery.   They're laughing at anyone who pays it for being an idiot. 

Hellfahr, I can mount and balance a tire on top of a garbage can with a pair of tire spoons and a little pot of P80 and a bubble balancer in 30 minutes or less.   My local motorcycle shop demounts the old tire, mounts the new one, and spin-balances it in about 8 minutes.   Their shop rate is $120 an hour, which is why they charge $15 when I buy the tires there at match-the-online-rate.

There's no "Setting the Bar" - there's a bunch of rip-off artists colluding to steal your money.  "Yeah, son, it's them ol' corporations, nothin' we can do about it, eh?"  (Canadian content).

Be all that as it may, you need a good tire mounting system/machine/process BADLY!   A 30-gallon drum with sand or scrap metal in it, a split piece of heater hose around the top, a pair of good tire irons, a set of rim protectors, a pair of C-clamps to break the bead, and a good healthy compressor to seat the bead and you're in business .... and the cheaters are OUT!

Lannis

[ChuckH]

.....Now,I'm not gonna go buy a multi-thousand dollar machine, like some folks on here ......, but any rig under $800 or so would be a smart investment for me.   

TC,  You should be able to find a rig to handle your tire changing duties for that amount without too many problems.  However, if you find one that will make the job easier for additional money, I would suggest you consider it.  I keep my equipment in good condition and find I can generally resell items I buy for my motorcycling hobby for 2/3 or so the original cost.

Edit:  WOW!!  Reality check!!  I have to readjust my thinking.  All these discussions have caused me to look into the past to search for the details. 

The original paperwork shows I bought my Coats 220 Manual Tire Changer in Sept, 2001 for $775., delivery and some COD charges included.  It came from Antioch, TN (near Nashville) by Old Dominion Freight Line in one box (some assembly required).

I Googled to find the current price of the Coats 220 Manual Changer.  It is $1720. and that does not include the shipping/COD costs.

I don't even want to find out the current cost/value of the Handy Lift I bought about the same time.  I'm afraid I'd have to increase the insured value on the contents of the house if I knew.

[kirby1923]

Cost of changer?

Well I bought mine from another bike friend that stopped riding (health reasons its a manual device). Have a compressor that is over 30 years old.(bought that used) 4 tire tools (good ones), pressure gauge,
Buy slippery stuff from local auto parts (easier than soap and water) tire balancer, (most expensive tool..$100) Box of stick on balancing weights.

Total about $300 and if I had bought the changer new about $150 more.

Probably changed 100 tires on this rig.

Don't have to do the math to see the saving....If your changing a couple of sets a year, may not be the best deal and you need to have a space to do in. (not for parking lots).

Its the little things...

[solarmoose]

Had a NoMar Classic since 2005 and bought many of the extra tools along the way. Great people to deal with. Was tired of shops gouging cast wheels on the vintage bikes. I take my time to clean bead seat area and wheel while tire is off. Shops can't do that.
I like the Marc Parnes balancer over the NoMar and have both. I mounted the NoMar on a piece of 1" ply 4'x4' and move it out of the way when not needed.

I have no idea of how many tires I've changed. Some are easy, some aren't. Low profile sport touring fronts and stiff sidewall dirt/dual purpose (Heidenau) tires can be difficult.

TIP: If the tire is warm (140F) it will mount much easier so I use the racer's electric tire blankets to heat them up first. Michelin tire engineer told me I was less likely to damage the bead when mounting a warm tire and thought it was a good idea. I discovered this when warming a tire in the summer sun and found it mounted without as much force. IR gun told me the tire was 140F in the sun.

[Bpreynolds2]

Reviving this thread.  Though I’m, let’s say, mechanically “capable” (generous description), changing tires has mostly been a foreign thing for me over these 18 years of riding.  I’ve done a great amount of work on the bike’s I’ve had but local shops and such have now gotten so expensive, I’ve decided to invest and just start doing this myself along with all other basic maintenance I already do.  I notice HB has discontinued the motorcycle attachment for their tire changer - they’ve done this before and eventually brought it back; however, for now the attachment is not available anymore for it, at least directly from HB.  Options?  I also notice that CycleHill (No-Mar offshoot) is now on sale for $368 plus some change and I’m thinking about that as well.  Advice appreciated.   

[guzziart]

Reviving this thread.  Though I’m, let’s say, mechanically “capable” (generous description), changing tires has mostly been a foreign thing for me over these 18 years of riding.  I’ve done a great amount of work on the bike’s I’ve had but local shops and such have now gotten so expensive, I’ve decided to invest and just start doing this myself along with all other basic maintenance I already do.  I notice HB has discontinued the motorcycle attachment for their tire changer - they’ve done this before and eventually brought it back; however, for now the attachment is not available anymore for it, at least directly from HB.  Options?  I also notice that CycleHill (No-Mar offshoot) is now on sale for $368 plus some change and I’m thinking about that as well.  Advice appreciated.

Hey BPR,

FWIW....

I bought a nomar (Cycle Hill HD Plus) back in 2019 at the International MC Show in Cleveland, Ohio because I no longer had free unobstructed access to a Coats pneumatic changer.  I finally got around to attempting to use it last Spring to do tires on my Wee Strom.  I was unsuccessful in mounting the tires because I could not master the technique required to use their tire bar.  Last weekend I decided to give tire mounting another attempt, on my Eldo but with a Mojo Lever and was easily successful.

Some miscellaneous…

My nomar has posi-clamp wheel locks, not their cam block set-up.  I use a strap around a few spokes and nomar frame to keep the wheel from rotating during tire mount/demount process.   

The center post was flaking paint into the wheel bearing area when their tire bar or Mojo Lever pivoted on it so I sanded the paint off it to eliminate that issue.  I contacted nomar about that paint flaking into the wheel bearing area, they said they do not use that type of paint anymore and would be happy to sell me a new center post, I declined their generous offer.

I installed in-ground threaded floor anchors so I can store my nomar in a corner when I don’t need to use it. When I do bolt it to the floor, the 4 bolts are in only finger tight, it suffices. 

So it will stand by itself without falling over when not bolted to the floor, I inserted a piece of pipe in the vertical post that retains the upper arm.  Actually, I used the bottom half of an old picnic umbrella.  The bottom half has a spring loaded button that offers enough friction to retain the bottom half in the vertical post of the nomar but can be easily removed if needed.  At this point I see no need to ever remove because it is not an obstacle in using the nomar and it facilitates upright storage when not use.

To move the thing around in the garage I use a HF hand truck….to reduce the chance of a back injury.

I have not used the nomar enough to determine which lube I prefer to use…nomar or RU Glyde.  I have a spray bottle with some nomar lube & water and I have a Coats style lube container & swab.  So far I have used all of it on the two tires I have successfully completed.

I use a Mark Parnes balancer in conjunction with 2 small jack stands.  After struggling to decide on which wheel weights to use on my Eldo (stick-ons, spoke re-usable, crimp-on, beads, etc.) I went with old skool 0.125” solder.  The PO of my Eldo used balancing beads, every time I checked tire air pressure the balancing beads would not allow Schrader valve to re-seat unless I added air to blow valve seat clean so, I did not want to go that route again.  Yeah, I figure out how much weight to add, then use a small cheap $15 digital scale and cut a piece of solder to the appropriate weight.  I then wrap the solder around a spoke and re-check the balance. I guess I’ll see how well that works in the long run.

Art

[Bpreynolds2]

Hey GA, timely reply here as I just put another tire on last night with my $33 Vevor irons, Windex, and a slight bit of foul language and a sore thumb from an iron slip.  Sounds like you have a good system going and ultimately, I may indeed follow this model.  For the time being, however, I’m glad I only went with the Vevor irons which are basically knock offs of the Motion Pro ones for about half the price.  Since buying these I have swapped a tire on and off the rims I’m sealing about 6 different times with 2 different tires.  Some of those times were relatively easy, some of them harder than I expected, but none taking more than about 15-20 minutes to do.  After reading a great deal and watching many YouTube how to vids, I have a method now that seems to work “pretty” well which involves the heat gun and then Windex before removal or install.  Like I said, not a single tire on or off has taken me more than 20 minutes at most, some as little as 10.  I think for now what I desire most would be a really firm, very solid wheel stand as I get tired of doing these on my knees in the basement upon our rug. 

[guzziart]

Hey GA, timely reply here as I just put another tire on last night with my $33 Vevor irons, Windex, and a slight bit of foul language and a sore thumb from an iron slip.  Sounds like you have a good system going and ultimately, I may indeed follow this model.  For the time being, however, I’m glad I only went with the Vevor irons which are basically knock offs of the Motion Pro ones for about half the price.  Since buying these I have swapped a tire on and off the rims I’m sealing about 6 different times with 2 different tires.  Some of those times were relatively easy, some of them harder than I expected, but none taking more than about 15-20 minutes to do.  After reading a great deal and watching many YouTube how to vids, I have a method now that seems to work “pretty” well which involves the heat gun and then Windex before removal or install.  Like I said, not a single tire on or off has taken me more than 20 minutes at most, some as little as 10.  I think for now what I desire most would be a really firm, very solid wheel stand as I get tired of doing these on my knees in the basement upon our rug.

Sounds like a plan!  I'm kind of surprised Windex works, I didn't think it was slippery enough and never thought to try it.  To warm up my tires a bit    before mounting I held them 4-5' in front of my torpedo heater for a minute or two but they were already at 70+ F.  I did not have a problem seating the new tube tires and hope my compressor has enough capacity to seat tubeless tires when I do my other bikes.  Before I bought the nomar I looked at a Max2h but like you indicate I can't be "doing these on my knees"....too old for that.

[Texas Turnip]

I witnessed Rodekyll struggling with the "NO MO" nomar tire changer. Maybe it works with certain tires and 150 degree heat blah blah. I'd give this POS away but I don't want my name to be besmirched.

Tex

[guzziart]

    I had to saw a barn find dirt bike tire once that was as hard as a rock...petrified!  And, I had a Coats pneumatic that wouldn't handle it.

I've plugged tires on the road before but hope I never have an opportunity to r & r a tire to patch a tube on the road.  Yeah, I'd patch the f'n thing and then pinch it reinstalling...good times!

[guzziart]

I witnessed Rodekyll struggling with the "NO MO" nomar tire changer. Maybe it works with certain tires and 150 degree heat blah blah. I'd give this POS away but I don't want my name to be besmirched.

Tex

Yeah, the no mo mar gave me a rough time too with their tire bar but the Mojo Lever made it ezpz for me.

When Rodekyll was sruggling with the no mo mar was he trying to pull it out of the trunk?

[Motormike]

Nomar needs to include a sawzall in their packaging for that vast majority of real-world tires that don't respond to prying and pulling.  I've used Tex's nomar machine as a jig for sawing off way more tires than I've levered off.   If Tex can't break a bead with his nomar, at half his weight and strength I don't have a prayer.

I have found the bead-breaker on the No-Mar to be particularly vile and useless.

[Bpreynolds2]

Sounds like a plan!  I'm kind of surprised Windex works, I didn't think it was slippery enough and never thought to try it.  To warm up my tires a bit    before mounting I held them 4-5' in front of my torpedo heater for a minute or two but they were already at 70+ F.

I would say the Windex works okay and good enough for my needs currently but I would like to try some dedicated stuff like tire lube.  With my HB heat gun I turn it on the highest setting and then basically circle the tire repeatedly and never stopping long enough in one place to damage.

It’s actually taking me longer to set the bead than to mount or remove the tires.  I’ll readily listen to any advice with regard to that.  I think I’m going to try buying an air compressor connector that will let me remove and bypass the valve core to get more air into the tire and maybe set the bead easier.  Right now, I’ll mount the tire, bounce it a couple times, fail at setting the bead, bounce again, push/pull on the tire at the “caught” points, bounce again, try to inflate, cross fingers, hold tongue to left side of mouth, etc.  It always EVENTUALLY works but it has taken me as long as 30 or 40 minutes even to get it to set.

[Vagrant]

Just think about this, no mars lube is, vegetable oil! I've used Pam spray for years and it works way better than th rueglide. Tires always seat instantly.

[Bpreynolds2]

Just think about this, no mars lube is, vegetable oil! I've used Pam spray for years and it works way better than th rueglide. Tires always seat instantly.

Good for eggs and tires!  I’ll try it.

[guzziart]

Just think about this, no mars lube is, vegetable oil! I've used Pam spray for years and it works way better than th rueglide. Tires always seat instantly.

Nomars lube is vegetable based water soluble...whatever that is!!??  Vegetable oil is not water soluble.  So, for the time being I'll stick to the nomar lube & ru glyde that I have before I try something else like pam.


Hey BPR...good point about bead seating, I should probably look for something to connect to the schrader stem with valve out to more rapidly inflate tire to help bead seating.  Maybe someone here will post a recommendation.  I had no problem with the tube tires on eldo but wonder about the tubeless ones I have to do...in conjunction with my weenie compressor.

[Vagrant]

Hey, it's winter and this is almost an oil thread. should we keep going?

[Bpreynolds2]

Hey, it's winter and this is almost an oil thread. should we keep going?

Vag, we have not even touched the surface of this topic yet.  I haven’t even gone over the new method I discovered (invented???) tonight of seating the bead.  I was having a hard time getting the bead to set and I had tried Windex, bouncing the tire on the rim, and pulling at the bead to get it outward.  Was not going well and I was like, oh boy, here we go again.  But then I decided to sit on top of the tire with the stubborn part of the bead on the ground forcing it to flare, hit it with the air compressor and bam!  I’m calling this the Bead Butt method.   

[80CX100]

Was not going well and I was like, oh boy, here we go again.  But then I decided to sit on top of the tire with the stubborn on the ground forcing it to flare, hit it with the air compressor and bam!  I’m calling this the Bead Butt method.   

     No pictures,,, it didn't happen 

[leroysch]

I would say the Windex works okay and good enough for my needs currently but I would like to try some dedicated stuff like tire lube.  With my HB heat gun I turn it on the highest setting and then basically circle the tire repeatedly and never stopping long enough in one place to damage.

It’s actually taking me longer to set the bead than to mount or remove the tires.  I’ll readily listen to any advice with regard to that.  I think I’m going to try buying an air compressor connector that will let me remove and bypass the valve core to get more air into the tire and maybe set the bead easier.  Right now, I’ll mount the tire, bounce it a couple times, fail at setting the bead, bounce again, push/pull on the tire at the “caught” points, bounce again, try to inflate, cross fingers, hold tongue to left side of mouth, etc.  It always EVENTUALLY works but it has taken me as long as 30 or 40 minutes even to get it to set.

That's been my experience using my NoMar vs some of the ladies on here. ( ). I've used a ratchet strap about the circumference of the tire with success. An easier way which Dusty suggested was to use a tie wrap gun and tie wrap the the tire/wheel at and about the troublesome area. Interested me enough to buy a tie wrap gun...but haven't had the need to use it yet.

[SoCV]

That's been my experience using my NoMar vs some of the ladies on here. ( ). I've used a ratchet strap about the circumference of the tire with success. An easier way which Dusty suggested was to use a tie wrap gun and tie wrap the the tire/wheel at and about the troublesome area. Interested me enough to buy a tie wrap gun...but haven't had the need to use it yet.

 Pam and zip ties , that's how we got Bob's Stelvio tyre on . Kinda hard to tote a no mar to Hewins Park 

 Dusty