V7 Overcharging

[romanoaf]

Hi all, new guzzi owner of a fairly new 14' stone.

My problems started a month ago when I would get erratic turn signals under load, I measured the voltage and it was spiking to 17-18v under throttle. Tested and the regulator was shot, replaced the regulator and installed a voltmeter so that I could monitor the charging.
Now I'm getting:
12.8v bike off
13.5-14.5v idle
15.3-15.4v under any throttle

15.3 seems high to me, I found the Ducati energia drawing for the old regulators and it states 15.5 regulated voltage.

Is 15.3v too high?

[Moto Fugazzi]

If you haven't already, add a ground wire from the Reg. to the frame. Make sure you have good metal to metal contact.
Also, make sure you have good clean and tight connections at the battery, and all grounds are good.
Ken

[Chuck in Indiana]

this

[Jurgen]

15.3V is definitely too high for a liquid electrolyte lead acid battery, this is on the order of an equalizing charge (for an hour).  Normal charging voltage should be in the 14.3V - 14.4V.  Maintenance charge, where the charge going in is equal to the normal intrinsic discharge should be about 13.6V.  Jurgen

[clubman]

This has come up a couple of times in the last few years. It seems the "Ducati type" regulator used on the V7's typically runs a higher voltage than what you might expect in a 12V system. Yet, I haven't heard of any failures or overvoltage damage as a result. I put a digital V meter on my '09 V7C almost from new. It always shows 14.9-15.0V when running. I just replaced the OEM battery last week at 6 1/2 years old, which I consider to be very typical for an AGM motorcycle battery. Perhaps AGM's are just more resistant to higher voltage. I don't think a conventional wet cell  could take it. I don't think you have any reason to panic.

[Penderic]

I have voltmeter. My AGM batteries would show 14.8 volts normally - my new lead acid Maintenance Free OEM type with cheap new aftermarket regulator now shows 13.8 volts normally.

 

[romanoaf]

thanks for the responses. much appreciated.

I'm going to check the continuity in the circuit tonight, and maybe run through this test:
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

I'm thinking the ducati regulator does run a bit high, but the first one failed at 600km, I had shorted out a turn signal wire on the steering bump stop and figured that's all it took to fry it.

The only electrical modifications I have on the bike currently are an LED tail light, and the voltmeter wired on a relay with the taillight.

Battery is a Yuasa MF YTX14-BS

[Old Jock]

I don't know the V7 at all.

Just adding as a 1098 owner I can tell you Ducati reg/recs are pretty pants and frequently fail on the Ducatis, its well known and documented.

When changing the Ducati reg/rec most opt for a Shindengen Mosfet Reg/Rec I know they are fitted to Yams and Triumphs probably a shedload more

Link to You Tube shown how its done for the 1098

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeiqHNalzVo&spfreload=10

Just in case it may help

John

[romanoaf]

I don't know the V7 at all.

Just adding as a 1098 owner I can tell you Ducati reg/recs are pretty pants and frequently fail on the Ducatis, its well known and documented.

When changing the Ducati reg/rec most opt for a Shindengen Mosfet Reg/Rec I know they are fitted to Yams and Triumphs probably a shedload more

Link to You Tube shown how its done for the 1098

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeiqHNalzVo&spfreload=10

Just in case it may help

John

That's something I've been considering for this Bike. Only problem is I'm not sure whether I can interchange a 3 phase regulator with a single phase (v7s are single).. I have a spare 3 phase laying around that I bought in error. Does anyone know if I can just cap the third wire from the stator and utilize just one phase from a 3 phase regulator?

[pyoungbl]

My '13 V7 Special was over charging, much like yours.  I replaced the VR with a Mosfet R/R and added an indicator to tell me the charge status.  All this came about when I started to wonder if the V7 could carry the load of my heated gear.

Peter Y.

[MGPilot]

That's something I've been considering for this Bike. Only problem is I'm not sure whether I can interchange a 3 phase regulator with a single phase (v7s are single).. I have a spare 3 phase laying around that I bought in error. Does anyone know if I can just cap the third wire from the stator and utilize just one phase from a 3 phase regulator?

From Roadstercycle.com
The Shindengen Mosfet regulators have been a life saver for thousands of motorcycle enthusiasts. I was introduced to them a few years ago and liked how they performed so much that I started the Mosfet regulator upgrade industry around them. Although the Mosfet is still a shunting type regulator which means (in layman terms) it takes all the extra juice that is not used by your motorcycle electronics and gets rid of it by grounding it to the frame or negative side of the battery. The great thing about the Mosfet R/R is that it has up to date technology. It uses Mosfet style transistors. The old diode types found on most motorcycles today are 60s technology. The up to date technology lets the regulator perform substantially better and run cooler. I have close to 2000 upgrade kits out there running the Mosfet regulators and had literally no issues with them. I started out with the FH012AA, then the FH015AA and now the latest and greatest FH020AA. All have performed above expectations (actually I'm amazed how bullet proof these have been).  As far as I am concerned there is no other choice for a stock motorcycle upgrade conversion. The great thing about this regulator is its ability to work with  a  2 wire (single phase) or 3 wire (3 phase) stator just by hooking up either  2 or 3 wires to the gray terminal. The Mosfet technology is the best thing going until someone comes up with an affordable series R/R using Mosfet technology. So if you have been wondering about whether to upgrade to a Mosfet or stay with your stock R/R, stop wondering. Whether you purchase it from me or one of my competitors it's the most reliable and best alternative I know of. If you decide to upgrade and you have an charging issue I'll help you out, it does not matter to me where you bought it.  Jack

[Penderic]

That's something I've been considering for this Bike. Only problem is I'm not sure whether I can interchange a 3 phase regulator with a single phase (v7s are single).. I have a spare 3 phase laying around that I bought in error. Does anyone know if I can just cap the third wire from the stator and utilize just one phase from a 3 phase regulator?

On mine, the third yellow wire is ignored for the single phase system. Over 2 months with it and it works fine. I bought a cheap $39 one and a better one in a nice box for $140 just in case. Both were the same unit. The cheap one was in a sealed bag and needed the red and green wires in the connector reversed to work properly.

Here is another Non Ducati Energia type (not for our V7) aftermarket unit type and its wiring info FYI

[sign216]

My V7 aftermarket voltmeter was showing erratic readings. Due to a burnt wire connector in the wire harness underneath the gas tank. Kind of hard to get to, but a common problem, well least with the previous generation of the V7.

Also, the modern version of the V7 already has a dedicated ground for the regulator to the frame ( unlike earlier bikes)  so that issue has been taken care of.

[romanoaf]

I had a chance to go over most everything I wanted to on the bike today. Even had the tank off to inspect for any pinches. Wiring is all good, everything is grounded correctly and has a good connection.
Still charging at 15.3v.
Tried connecting a new 3 phase RR, FYI. The output wires come backwards on some aftermarket units. This one went to 16v before I pulled it.
So the only conclusions I can come to are:
-The Ducati RRs charge high from the factory (drawing on euromotoelectrics calls out 15.5+-0.5 volts)
-I got a faulty new unit
-something on my bike is causing the regulators to spike. Could it be the LED taillight, if not correctly resisted?

Considering ordering a mosfet unit at this point. Although I did find the reason my fuel pump was noisy, the line was a little crimped from factory.

[Moto Fugazzi]

Have you verified the volt meter (VM) with another VM? Just to verify, you added a ground wire from the RR to the frame with clean, solid contacts?
Ken

[romanoaf]

I compared the onboard voltmeter with a multimeter, readings were identical.
I have not added an extra ground, I did check the factory harness resistance, and it was ok.. I suppose it couldn't hurt though, I'll add an extra ground tonight.

[romanoaf]

Now I'm really confused; riding into work this morning it was charging at 15.3v. then dropped down 12.1v and stayed there, the voltmeter would flash 0.00 as well.. luckily I made it into work, but now I'm unsure if the voltmeter is faulty or if I fried another regulator..

[sign216]

you added a ground wire from the RR to the frame with clean, solid contacts?
Ken

About 10 years ago they started adding a dedicated ground the voltage regulator. If you look at the wiring it should go from the regulator to a bolt on the right side of the engine.

Imagine it couldn't hurt to freshen up those contacts though, mine was beginning to rust almost from new.

[stick]

That's something I've been considering for this Bike. Only problem is I'm not sure whether I can interchange a 3 phase regulator with a single phase (v7s are single).. I have a spare 3 phase laying around that I bought in error. Does anyone know if I can just cap the third wire from the stator and utilize just one phase from a 3 phase regulator?

I did this exact thing on my V11 Lemans.  I had mediocre voltage for the factory RR - about 12.5V.   After verifying that the 2 wire stator was healthy, even under a temporary dummy load, I was able to swap in a Ducati 3 phase RR (that I had as a "spare"), and only used 2 of the 3 yellow wires - tape the 3rd one off.  I also ran a dedicated pair of #12 gauge wires from the RR directly to the battery.  Now I see 14.2V.  Be sure to check that all connections are secure.  Even at battery!!

Note that I did not add an additional gnd. wire to the replaced RR.  The black wires are sufficient.  I did try this on the OEM RR, but there was no change...

[pikipiki]

2 resistors, 2 zener diodes and a green led makes a circuit to show battery is healthy and not charging.
1 resistor, 1 zener diode and an orange led makes a circuit to show overcharging.
A little wire, 2 crimps,
Two small holes in the back of your headlight housing glue leds in with circuits connected.

Ignition on green light.
Engine running no light.
Overcharging orange light.

[romanoaf]

2 resistors, 2 zener diodes and a green led makes a circuit to show battery is healthy and not charging.
1 resistor, 1 zener diode and an orange led makes a circuit to show overcharging.
A little wire, 2 crimps,
Two small holes in the back of your headlight housing glue leds in with circuits connected.

Ignition on green light.
Engine running no light.
Overcharging orange light.

Don't really have a problem with the current wired voltmeter, I've confirmed it again with a multimeter.. I would've gone the LED route, but colour blindness has left me with trust issues.
My current setup is wired directly to the battery with a relay on the tail light that comes on with ignition.
My problem is that I'm cooking Regulators, and cant see any symptoms of any shorted circuits.

[pikipiki]

What voltage are you getting from the battery when not charging?

[romanoaf]

What voltage are you getting from the battery when not charging?

12.5v-12.8v

[clubman]

My '13 V7 Special was over charging, much like yours.  I replaced the VR with a Mosfet R/R and added an indicator to tell me the charge status.  All this came about when I started to wonder if the V7 could carry the load of my heated gear.

Peter Y.

The high resistance loads created by heated grips (which this bike was not designed to carry) could only be helped by slightly higher system voltages. You guys are fixing something that is clearly not broken.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The earlier (200 era) guzzis used a Ducati Energia regulator with only a positive wire going to the battery, the negative connection was from the regulator case through the chassis to the main battery ground. Because the factory never took any care to make sure the regulator was grounded properly they would loose Voltage between the regulator case and the chassis, they really benefited from an additional ground wire.
Your new Guzzi has a much better arrangement, the regulator has dedicated negative wires  I doubt it needs a ground at all but it won't hurt.
See Penderic's post September 23rd, find where those black wires attach and clean it up, if in doubt connect them back to the battery main ground.

Inspect the 30 Amp fuse closely, look for  signs of discoloration in the plastic which would indicate heating due to a bad connection (very common on the earlier spine frame bikes)

Where does the Voltmeter attach, perhaps it's not seeing the true battery Voltage. for example if it's on the other side of the ignition switch and the switch is starting to build up resistance. this would effect your after market Voltmeter and the dash equally,
Check for Voltage drop with the key On between the fuses and battery Positive, try the key several times.

Clean the battery terminals and apply some Vaseline

I think you are either loosing the connection between the battery and the regulator or your Voltmeters.

Good Luck
Roy

[romanoaf]

I've checked the ground post, and it looks clean. I've also replaced the fuse.

Voltmeter is wired directly onto the battery, via SPST relay on the taillight.

Tonight I'm going to check the connection between battery positive and fuse and starter. Then I'll add an extra ground. hopefully I can have this figured out tonight, otherwise the closest dealer is 2 hours away.

Thanks,
Roman

[Moto Fugazzi]

Maybe the old RR fried your battery. Wouldn't hurt to have it load tested at Batteries Plus or equivalent.
If the bike is under warranty, I'd get it to the dealer and have them sort it out before changing to an aftermarket RR.
Ken

[pikipiki]

I can't differ from Moto fugazzi's comments either his first point on wiring or the latest on battery.
 Something wrong either shorts, bad connection or battery.
Are you down to 12.8 is good after standing 2 days.
12.5 is marginal
12.5 is not good when you just turned the ignition off.
A proper test will tell.

[Moto Fugazzi]

I had a chance to go over most everything I wanted to on the bike today. Even had the tank off to inspect for any pinches. Wiring is all good, everything is grounded correctly and has a good connection.
Still charging at 15.3v.
Tried connecting a new 3 phase RR, FYI. The output wires come backwards on some aftermarket units. This one went to 16v before I pulled it.
So the only conclusions I can come to are:
-The Ducati RRs charge high from the factory (drawing on euromotoelectrics calls out 15.5+-0.5 volts)
-I got a faulty new unit
-something on my bike is causing the regulators to spike. Could it be the LED taillight, if not correctly resisted?

Considering ordering a mosfet unit at this point. Although I did find the reason my fuel pump was noisy, the line was a little crimped from factory.

I just remembered this post on the V11 forum from a while back. This was in regards to LED headlight and aux. lamps, and keep in mind that the V11S charging system is different than the current V7. You could always disconnect your LED tail light and check voltage.
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18674

Think,with your LEDs "on" you have overload on the alternator. Unfortunately most LED-Beams have internal switching power supplies with constant current regulation which produce hard currentspikes in motos electrical system. Your "Module" (it's a pulse width modulation) does the rest. The currentspikes bring your alternator into magnetical saturation and the voltage breaks down in common mode with the spikes. The regulator also can't handle the spikes (10 kHz....1MHz).
 
Would be a good idea buffering the Module primaryly with a diode and an electrolytic with an foil condensator in parallel to damp the pulses.
 
Typical oscilogram of a swps (green: LED output voltage, red: input current)
http://postimg.org/image/4j2eiwbor/

[romanoaf]

Update. After checking, double checking wiring, adding extra grounds, wiring the voltmeter directly to the battery. Figured out my problem was a poor connection at the regulator from the alternator. Was wiggling around the wires and noticed the bike would begin charging intermittently..

Turns out the female side of the connection, on the alternator side, the female receivers were far too wide for the male spades on the regulator side.. I adjusted them with a flat head and now the connection is tight. Have been charging without issue for 2days now. Looks like the connector wasn't properly crimped from factory.