V7 Racer look alike - $3k brand new

[Moto]

If I had stupid money I would be riding one every day. Maybe a Gryffin.

I found that looking closely at competing motorcycles was really important for my choice. The Cleveland Cyclewerks bike was small and crude, for example. I have the same impression that the Janus bikes are crudely constructed. One thing I've noted is that there are no close-up photos of their bikes on the website. Why, I wonder.

By contrast, the newest Italjet looks a lot better when the close-up photos are examined. A real design esthetic is evident. For example, the new, cast or machined handlebar clamp replaces a perfectly nice looking one on the older model, with the only gain being for the sake of perceived beauty.

I'd be very leery of buying a Janus motorcycle sight-unseen, without even any close-up photography having been provided by the manufacturer.

Moto

[Lannis]

Unless I run across someone who refuses to buy anything Chinese at all, I have little patience for free-form moralizing about why I shouldn't be doing so. I don't think you're that guy.

Moto

Didn't say you "shouldn't be doing so".   That's your conscience talking.

I said you should ask yourself "Why" and "How", and then Go For It.    But it's just an opinion, not a command of some sort.

Lannis

[Moto]

Didn't say you "shouldn't be doing so".   That's your conscience talking.

I said you should ask yourself "Why" and "How", and then Go For It.    But it's just an opinion, not a command of some sort.

Lannis

Lannis,

I said you were moralizing. Here's the definition of that in the Oxford American Dictionary:

"moralize.... (often as noun moralizing) comment on issues of right and wrong, typically with an unfounded air of superiority."

Especially considering your reference to "good conscience," this fits your comments to a tee.

You might also look up the definitions of "patronize" and "presumption."

I and the other adults on this forum don't need your instruction in what to think about in making purchases, as in: "If you can honestly look the "Why" and the "How" in the face, and support that, and be part of it in good conscience, then go for it." That's patronizing, the kind of thing you might more properly direct toward your own children.

And what gives you a license to presume anything about my conscience "speaking"?

Moto

[Lannis]

And what gives you a license to presume anything about my conscience "speaking"?

Moto

I'm getting to be an oldish man, seen a lot of stuff, listened to a lot of people, and "balance of probability" gets to be more and more accurate as time goes by.   Looks like I got a bit close to home on this one ... !! 

Lannis

[Moto]

I'm getting to be an oldish man, seen a lot of stuff, listened to a lot of people, and "balance of probability" gets to be more and more accurate as time goes by.   Looks like I got a bit close to home on this one ... !! 

Lannis

You're wrong.

[Lannis]

You're wrong.

Well, maybe.

But how do you figure "I and the other adults on this forum don't need your instruction in what to think about in making purchases ..."   

How do YOU presume to know what anyone 'needs'?    Do they need your help in deciding what to read and what not to read?   

Maybe "moralizing" and "presuming" and "assuming" is just what OTHER people do ... what "I" do is just give objective, necessary guidance as to how everyone else should read and interpret stuff.

Well, anyway.   No place else for me to go with this, and we certainly don't need to keep Our Moderators playing "Whack-A-Mole" between Personal Attacks on this thread, and Resolution of International Social Issues on the scooter-stealing thread ....

Lannis

[Moto]

we certainly don't need to keep Our Moderators playing "Whack-A-Mole" between Personal Attacks on this thread, and Resolution of International Social Issues on the scooter-stealing thread ....

Agreed.

If you like, I'll send you a PM with my point of view on buying Chinese, which I'm not foisting on anyone else.

Moto

[Lannis]

Agreed.

If you like, I'll send you a PM with my point of view on buying Chinese, which I'm not foisting on anyone else.

Moto

That'll be fine.   I'll bet that I agree with 90% of it .....

[jas67]

Wow, take it outside guys!

[Lannis]

Wow, take it outside guys!

Way ahead of you!   Well, 22 seconds ahead of you, anyway.    That's a lot of microseconds in computer time!

[ohiorider]

What the h***. 

Ya bore a hole or two (called a cylinder) in a piece of metal (take your choice .... (aluminum, iron,)  make a few pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc, like engine manufacturers have been doing for 125+ years, put all this crap together, put it in a frame, put a couple of wheels on it, and get it on the market.  Why all this debate after well over a century?

We as riders all know that some of these combinations feel better than others, shift better, ride better, etc.

But today, if a company making machines powered by internal combustion engines doesn't have the basics of this down to a science, well, God help them!

[Lannis]

What the h***. 

Ya bore a hole or two (called a cylinder) in a piece of metal (take your choice .... (aluminum, iron,)  make a few pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc, like engine manufacturers have been doing for 125+ years, put all this crap together, put it in a frame, put a couple of wheels on it, and get it on the market.  Why all this debate after well over a century?

We as riders all know that some of these combinations feel better than others, shift better, ride better, etc.

But today, if a company making machines powered by internal combustion engines doesn't have the basics of this down to a science, well, God help them!

Hitting close to home for sure now!

How long have manufacturers been making engines where the valves are actuated by an eccentric camshaft, where a cam follower rides on the cam and pushes the valves open?   110 years or more?    Hundreds of millions of engines, from BSA Beagle 75cc engines to "Oil Pull" huge harvester motors to Pratt and Whitney radial aero engines ...

... and yet Moto Guzzi couldn't figure out how to make them, and sent out thousands of motorcycles where the cam followers failed after a few hundred hours and would ruin the engine if not caught?

How long have manufacturers been building engines with hydraulically-actuated valves, in order to control valve lash?   Forever - Harley started putting them on motorcycles 60 years ago.  And yet in 2003, Moto Guzzi ....

Simple 4 cylinder automotive engines had been in production for 80 years, and yet in 1974, Chevrolet had the bright idea of creating the Vega ... and in 1980, the V8 diesel ....

Well, you get the picture .... It isn't a given, and not everyone, including the experts, can do it right ....

Lannis

[ohiorider]

I hear you, and I agree with you!

Bob

[Daleroso]

Funny how much of these coments & debate took place 45 years ago when Soichiro made his presence known.

[oldbike54]

Funny how much of these coments & debate took place 45 years ago when Soichiro made his presence known.

 Closer to 55 years 

 Dusty

[Lannis]

Funny how much of these coments & debate took place 45 years ago when Soichiro made his presence known.

Honda was the main guy who was responsible for pulling the reputation of Japanese products sold in the USA from "tin junk" to quality stuff, by recognizing what would really sell, and actually doing it.

People forget that 50 years ago, "Made in Japan" was one of the worst things you could say about something .... But they figured it out.   

Took 25 years or so, though, from after the war to get there ....

Lannis

[Moto]

Both Japan (then) and China (now) have the advantage of building up an industrial capacity from scratch (the war having destroyed a lot in Japan). As a result their plants were and will be newer technology.

It's no longer a mass of peasants assembling things by hand for slave wages.

Moto

[Moto]

More breaking news back here at Buccaneer central.

A slightly modified Italjet Buccaneer 250 v-twin is being sold by Italmoto in Italy, as the Italmoto Tiquattro 250 Cafe Racer:





http://www.italmoto.com/tiquattro-cafe-racer-2/

In this version, the 59 number plate of the Italjet, for that company's founding year, has been replaced by the number 52, for the year the original Italmoto was founded, according to their website (1952).

Italmoto was the company acquired by Maserati to become the basis for Maserati brand motorcycles around 1960, in 1953, I read. (I doubt that Italmoto was founded only a year earlier, if the acquisition was in 1953.) Of course the current Italmoto, launched in 2013, probably has little or nothing in common with the original company, except the name.

Italmoto also showed a very neat looking 125, with an upswept pipe:





https://www.motociclismo.it/novita-moto-guidabili-patente-a2-2019-nuovi-modelli-benelli-fantic-honda-italmoto-italjet-kawasaki-mash-mondial-peugeot-swm-71369

Its construction is so similar to the 250's that it must roll off the same Longjia line.

Moto