Dielectric grease

[Bisbee]

Just read an interesting article from Guzzi tech. Concerned e- problems and some blamed them on the use of silicon based dielectric grease. How they degrade and end up causing e- resistance. Last summer ,I worked on my old EV and decided to remove and liberally grease all connectors with a quality dielectric . I put it all together and the engine would not even turn over. Disgusted! So I removed all connections , put it together and whamo! It started and runs great. Any comments?

[pehayes]

"...liberally grease..." was probably your issue.  The substance itself does not conduct electricity.  So, if you use enough to physically separate contacts then you are a no go.  A thin film will protect contacts but still allow for metal to metal contact when you slide/reconnect wires.  Actually, many of us have stopped using dielectric grease and converted to the  use of products in the CAIG DeOxit family.  Far superior corrosion protection.  D100  expensive but worth the investment in your shop.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Bulldog9]

A light schmear is all you need. Been using it for years. Tight /modern connectors dont have this problem, but some of the older style connectors and bulbs can foul that way. As the old saying goes ' a little dab'l do ya'

[Chuck in Indiana]

Oh no.. not again. Wayne preached for years against using Dielectric grease on your Guzzis (except for the plug caps.)
I think he's given up.. but.. it's been proven to travel through the wiring and screw up your relays. It creates silicon dioxide (from memory) and can screw up your ignition switch. This was backed up with data from relay manufacturers. <shrug>
I bought a barn find Strada back in the day. Someone had decided that dielectric grease was a good idea, and liberally packed every freakin thing with it. It never ran again. It went through another owner. Good Guzzi Mechanic Harold (RIP)  couldn't get it running, either.
I cleaned it out. And cleaned and cleaned. Got it running with help from this list. Just the same, when it got hot, it quit.
I had to ride bitch  behind ZZ at the Va. nats when it got hot and quit. It's the only time a Guzzi hasn't brougt me home. Had to get a trailer and bring it back to camp. Finally got it all sorted out, and it's living happily in SoCal.
Dielectric grease?? Just say no.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I swear by Vaseline but then I've only been using it for 55 years.
The only thing I have seen Dielectric grease recommended for is plug boots.

Actually anything oily is good for contacts in a wet location, I have even been known to use the dip stick to apply some oil
I always dip wires in Vaseline before crimping them, especially in a wet spot the joint never corrodes after that.

[Lannis]

I bought a barn find Strada back in the day. Someone had decided that dielectric grease was a good idea, and liberally packed every freakin thing with it. It never ran again. It went through another owner. Good Guzzi Mechanic Harold (RIP)  couldn't get it running, either.
I cleaned it out. And cleaned and cleaned. Got it running with help from this list. Just the same, when it got hot, it quit.
I had to ride bitch  behind ZZ at the Va. nats when it got hot and quit. It's the only time a Guzzi hasn't brougt me home. Had to get a trailer and bring it back to camp. Finally got it all sorted out, and it's living happily in SoCal.
Dielectric grease?? Just say no.

Same deal when our Muley bought Hubert Few's old '98 EV.   For whatever reason (probably "read it on the Internet"), Hubert had packed every connector as tight as he could with dielectric grease, and then smeared more on the outside for good measure.

I'm sure Muley had many happy hours in the shop clearing THAT mess up ....

Lannis

[kingoffleece]

Google dielectric and conductive grease.
Or, use Dioxit and do it right.

[Dimples]

No-Ox-Id is the best product I know of for this application. Check out the website below--

https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html

[Kiwi_Roy]

Google dielectric and conductive grease.
Or, use Dioxit and do it right.

I guess I've been doing it wrong for the last 55 years then LOL
Just because Dioxit is 100 times more expensive it must be better eh!

[kingoffleece]

To each their own.
DeOxit is cleaner, less greasy, and sprays into all sorts of little spaces to do it's thing.
Having been in a world class facility that makes reference amps for industry with no measurable drift or distortion with an unbelievable duty cycle-they use DeOxit.  You keep the petroleum.  No matter to me.

And "do it right" is a saying here-don't take it to heart.  Some of that Aussi stuff gets lost in translation, too.  I get it.

[kingoffleece]

https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

I'm kind of partial to the mention of flammability.  YMMV.

[Wayne Orwig]

I think he's given up.. but.. it's been proven to travel through the wiring and screw up your relays. It creates silicon dioxide (from memory) and can screw up your ignition switch. This was backed up with data from relay manufacturers. <shrug>

Yep, I sort of gave up. Just because all of the sheeple heard dielectric grease is good, they slather it on. Not realizing the damage they do.

Same deal when our Muley bought Hubert Few's old '98 EV.   For whatever reason (probably "read it on the Internet"), Hubert had packed every connector as tight as he could with dielectric grease, and then smeared more on the outside for good measure.

I'm sure Muley had many happy hours in the shop clearing THAT mess up ....

Yes, Muley spend a LOT of money at shops because of that mess. The shops would find 'other' problems and it would cost him a lot of money. But the problems from the dielectric grease remained. He almost had to abort his Alaska trip.
I finally convinced him to bring it here and I was able to catch it failing. Cleaned and Deoxed the connectors, fixed.

BTW, I do not use Deoxit as a cleaner. Too pricey. I use cheap contactor cleaner to get rid of crud. Then put a light coat of Deoxit on.

[Wayne Orwig]

I guess I've been doing it wrong for the last 55 years then LOL
Just because Dioxit is 100 times more expensive it must be better eh!

Yes it is expensive. Yes my company worked with Deoxit and found that the resistance of a connector with Deoxit on it DECREASED with time with Deoxit applied. When a load cell connection drifts by 0.008 ohms ( 8 milliohms) , you have failed. Connectors with nothing or plain grease on them begin to increase resistance from day one, and soon failed. In hot humid Florida, some failed in days. Deoxit would reverse the damage.

Doesn't make it right for everything, but yes it is good at what it does.

[kingoffleece]

Petroleum grease (Vaseline) was recommended (and was apparently used) on low power antenna installations years ago. While people report using it without problems, I never use it in my installations. The primary shortfall of Vaseline is the very low melting point. Most brands or types liquefy at around 100 degrees F, just above human body temperature. While this may be a medical benefit when coating human skin, it is a serious problem with connector applications. Any heat will cause Vaseline to run and eventually dry out over time.

A second petroleum jelly issue is Vaseline's release of flammable vapor, even at low temperatures. A cotton ball soaked in Vaseline will burn a very long time, and actually makes a good fire starter. Since connectors are often near insulation or other things that can act like wicks, petroleum jelly is not the best thing. This is especially true since grease migrates in warm temperatures.


In the service of knowledge, you understand.

[sign216]

https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

I'm kind of partial to the mention of flammability.  YMMV.

I am a big proponent of conductive grease.  Like the quoted fellow, I tried measuring the resistance of conductive grease vs regular (dielectric) grease, but didn't find much of a difference.  If may have been my technique, as the variations in the ohm measurements were being "swallowed" by technique.  I.e. variations in the approach yielded bigger changes than conductive vs dielectric resistance readings.  But the theory of conductive grease is so spot-on that I'm loathe to give it up.

I've got some DeOxit, but never thought of using it instead of grease.  Thought it was more of a component cleaner.  I'll think about switching.

Joe

[kingoffleece]

On the plow plugs, which take a lot of abuse, we use ACF-50.  Works a treat.  For those unfamiliar, the plugs connect the electronics from the plow truck to the plow.  OEM comes slathered in dielectric grease.  Winter kicks the grease's  butt.

[Kiwi_Roy]

My last comment was sort of tounge in cheek, where I worked we had a number of overhead gantry cranes operated by drum contactors (I cannot even find a picture of one these days) and slipring motors, I was taught to use "Petroleum Jelly" sparingly, if you didn't apply enough the drums and copper contacts would wear away, too much and it could get messy but I have never seen it catch fire but then you didn't have rags soaked with the stuff. I don't think you would advocate using Di-Oxit on these large contractors.
I did purchase some Craigs Di-oxit to try but I gave it to a buddy who was having trouble with his Kawasaki, he was afraid of me with a tube of Vaseline in my hand LOL.
I will say I have never seen any harm done by Vaseline (a form of Petroleum Jelly), it is cheap as chips, always available and I don't believe there is anything better for battery terminals. My early exposure to large traction batteries stood me in good stead later on at a construction site, i was bailed up in the office by a couple of engineers one day trying to find out why the stationary batteries I had assembled were so much better looking than all the others on site.

Wayne, that is certainly a great testimony to the power of Di-0xit, i can see why you are sold on it for that application.

KOF, Sure Graigs De-oxit may be better at some tasks like protecting the cable connections on a snow plow but I try not to do that with my bike.

Remember though I am advocating using a cheap effective solution over nothing at all.

Cheers
Roy

[kingoffleece]

KOF, Sure Graigs De-oxit may be better at some tasks like protecting the cable connections on a snow plow but I try not to do that with my bike.

Good one!  That's funny