Author Topic: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches  (Read 6024 times)

Offline Jim C

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Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« on: September 12, 2016, 01:22:24 AM »
Hey,

Just curious...

What're y'all using to measure all those oils
for your 'sickles?

I really don't know what to use or where to get metric
measuring cups that I can actually measure this stuff with.

Also, where can I find a torque wrench that measures 5-80 ft/lbs?
The tw I have goes from 40 to 250  ft/lbs . A bit much for what I need,
and totally useless. I saw one that might work at Harbor Freight. :embarrassed:

Thanks for the help!

Jim
2016 Red V7 II Stone

oldbike54

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2016, 01:53:00 AM »
 If nothing else most bottles are gradated , and most baby bottles also are gradated in Metric . I think precision low range torque wrenches are available through Snap On and MAC .

 Dusty

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2016, 02:57:01 AM »
You can find a variety of good oil-measuring devices in an auto parts store that have metric markings.

But I have a couple of pickle jars that I marked for the exact volumes needed for my transmission and bevel drive on both my bikes. I just filled them with the correct amount of water using a kitchen measuring cup, and marked them on the outside, indicating the cc's. Two jars, each with two marks, make a set for my two bikes. Save time, and easy to keep clean with the screw-on lids.

Moto

Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2016, 04:30:24 AM »
  Bear in mind that a quantity of oil clings to the surfaces of the measuring container and this can cause you to not put enough in.  I had this happen when the Guzzi shop mechanic did it and I ended up with a whiney transmission.  The dealer said that if I did it myself he would void the warrenty.  He did not do any warrenty work for the whiney transmission either.  He is in a large part of why I have not had a Guzzi since 2005.
 He screwed up on a wheel warrenty problem too.
 Add your oil until it has the correct level, not by some measuring device.
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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2016, 04:30:24 AM »

Online Dukedesmo

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2016, 04:37:37 AM »
I just use the plastic 1L measuring jugs from the kitchen, transparent and easy to pour.

Wife's not too keen on using them for food again so every time I 'borrow' one I've got it to keep...   :thumb:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 04:37:51 AM by Dukedesmo »
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Offline PeteS

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 06:18:00 AM »
I have a couple of graduated cylinders. 500 and 100ml. They are dirt cheap on eBay. For the shop you will want plastic ones.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graduated-cylinder-set-plastic-/191964546235?hash=item2cb1fa84bb:g:6PkAAOSwFdtXz~HC

Pete

Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2016, 06:27:55 AM »
I use the same old ratio rite I used in my dirt bike days. Torque wrench by harbor freight
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Offline cloudbase

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2016, 06:30:25 AM »
I have a couple of graduated cylinders. 500 and 100ml. They are dirt cheap on eBay. For the shop you will want plastic ones.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graduated-cylinder-set-plastic-/191964546235?hash=item2cb1fa84bb:g:6PkAAOSwFdtXz~HC

Pete

Same here. 

Offline bmc5733946

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 06:38:35 AM »
Clicker type torque wrenches are most accurate in the middle of their given range and least accurate at either end, but especially inaccurate at the lower end in my experience.  Beam torque wrenches are inherently accurate throughout most of their range.  The new electronic ones are also accurate throughout most of their range according to what I've read.  I bought one of the electronic adapter types from Harbor freight after reading about their accuracy online, I think the test was done by Motorcyclist or some other magazine.  I have not had a chance to use the electronic one yet but assume it will work just fine.

Brian
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2016, 08:06:32 AM »
I use a clear plastic measuring cup, intended for the kitchen, from the home section of the local grocery store.

One side is marked cups, the other side is marked Milliliters.  I've used it for years, and it works great.

Probably cost about $2.
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Offline Idontwantapickle

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2016, 08:16:21 AM »
I use the same old ratio rite I used in my dirt bike days. Torque wrench by harbor freight
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s_ss_i_0_5?k=ratio+rite&sprefix=ratio
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2016, 08:21:30 AM »
Beam types tell you where you are, provided you've aligned your eye to the scale properly.  you can gain or lose pounds just  by holding your eye wrong.  On the bench that's not a big problem, but in situ it can be a PITA.  Maybe digital helps there.  . .  Click types tell you when you've arrived at your destination, but have no idea where you actually are.  Kinda like my GPS on some days.  So a beam type in my opinion is better for measuring preload and a click-type for finding a particular torque value.  I don't know those electric ones work -- shock you when you pull too hard?

I'm a bit of a "Carter" from Hogan's Heroes, so I have a chemistry set with pyrex and plastic gradients from 50ml to 2000ml for when I need to measure volume and an old Ohaus triple beam balance for doing weight to the 1/10g.  For finer weight than that I've got grain scales to the 0.00007#.  It will tell you by weight which postage stamp has no glue.  My engine oil is no challenge -- start pouring quarts and count to three.

Offline Idontwantapickle

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2016, 10:28:40 AM »


I'm a bit of a "Carter" from Hogan's Heroes, so I have a chemistry set

Do you blow yourself up a lot like Carter?  :grin:
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Kentktk

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2016, 12:00:51 PM »
If nothing else most bottles are gradated , and most baby bottles also are gradated in Metric . I think precision low range torque wrenches are available through Snap On and MAC .

 Dusty

Dude, spellcheck is your friend  :thumb:

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2016, 12:19:30 PM »
I use a Ratio-Rite for measuring liquids.

The quantity of oil that clings to the walls of any measuring cup is minimal - less than 10 cc in my experience. Relying on (old Guzzi) level plugs for the correct quantity is a recipe for disaster.

If your ft./lbs. torque wrench doesn't go low enough, use an inch/lbs. one instead. I use clicker types and have them checked/calibrated yearly. I definitely would not recommend any torque wrench sold by Harbor Freight.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 12:20:23 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
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Offline not-fishing

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2016, 12:25:20 PM »
I have a couple of graduated cylinders. 500 and 100ml. They are dirt cheap on eBay. For the shop you will want plastic ones.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graduated-cylinder-set-plastic-/191964546235?hash=item2cb1fa84bb:g:6PkAAOSwFdtXz~HC

Pete

Wow!  So I'm not alone.  I figured I was just being anal-retentive because I couldn't force myself to use a measuring cup from to many years in a Chem Lab.  Having a Chem degree doesn't help either

So only if I use this rig will I be going overboard?



Mark
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Offline stevet

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2016, 12:42:45 PM »
I bought a set of these Corning Pyrex graduated beakers, quite accurate, more so than grocery store measuring devices.  And I can use them for any number of purposes in the workshop.

https://www.amazon.com/Corning-Pyrex-Griffin-Form-Beaker/dp/B008C4RVYE/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1473700626&sr=8-6&keywords=pyrex+graduated+cylinder


Admittedly, the engine and rear wheel oils are easy to determine if you have enough, but thanks to catching my drain oil out of my V7II transmission, I found the factory shorted the original fill by 20%!!  Oops.  (Going from memory, the V7II 6-speed transmission, what, 500ml instead of the V7 5-speed 1L?  Anyway, a perfect 400ml came out.)  Glad I'd replaced that oil within the first few hundred miles.  Dealer called the rep. for me about this, Guzzi wasn't concerned (of course not...).  It was probably yak fat I drained out anyway.  I'll replace the transmission and rear drive again for winter layup, and recheck the volumes.  If only 400 comes out again, I know I've got a problem.

I've got this Evercraft 3/8" drive torque wrench from Napa, 5-80ft lb.  I bought it's big brother in 1/2" drive, too.  Nice set for under $100, I've been very happy with them.  On the shelf at your local Napa store.

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/BK_7760951/BK_7760951


Steve.
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Offline PJPR01

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2016, 01:26:12 PM »
Wow!  So I'm not alone.  I figured I was just being anal-retentive because I couldn't force myself to use a measuring cup from to many years in a Chem Lab.  Having a Chem degree doesn't help either

So only if I use this rig will I be going overboard?



Mark

Oh crap....the titration turned purple!  One drop too many!  Very fond memories of Chem Lab...much more interesting than chemistry classes themselves!
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Offline ken farr

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2016, 02:31:44 PM »
I use a Ratio-Rite for measuring liquids.

The quantity of oil that clings to the walls of any measuring cup is minimal - less than 10 cc in my experience. Relying on (old Guzzi) level plugs for the correct quantity is a recipe for disaster.

If your ft./lbs. torque wrench doesn't go low enough, use an inch/lbs. one instead. I use clicker types and have them checked/calibrated yearly. I definitely would not recommend any torque wrench sold by Harbor Freight.

When I worked at Harbor Freight H.Q., I remember when they came out with the clicker torque wrenches, and they started getting alot of returns, because they didn't click.
Yeah, that was a mini-disaster.
However, I think a torque wrench, at least for any application on a Guzzi, approx. is good enough.  I mean, I went years without any torque wrench, used the TFAR principle and nothing ever fell off, seized or broke....but then again, ignorance is bliss.

( TFAR=that feels about right )


kjf
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2016, 02:49:35 PM »
I asked the local Pharmacist where I could find one, he gave me a medicine bottle graduated in cc
It was free which pleased my Guzzi bone.
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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2016, 03:19:08 PM »
For $22 you can get a 5-80 lb-ft clicking torque wrench:
https://www.amazon.com/Drive-Torque-Reversible-Wrench-Carrying/dp/B0068V1BIK
delivered to your door!
 It is handy to have a wrench with this range because there are a few fasteners that only require 10NM (7 lb-ft).  The Stelvio fork pinch bolts come to mind.  Although many experienced mechanics seldom use torque wrenches I would rather take that extra step rather than stripping a bolt or breaking an expensive part. 

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Offline steamdriven NZ

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2016, 03:24:33 PM »
I use large plastic syringes and a plastic tube for the final drive and the gearbox. At 100ml per syringe full it doesn't take long.
When you spend more time spannering than using, you have reached toy saturation.....

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Offline bmc5733946

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2016, 07:43:21 PM »
I wouldn't normally buy a torque wrench from Harbor Freight but after reading this I thought I would give it a try.  There are other reviews and tests available as well.  My comments were and are, not a recommendation.  I bought one because I am a curious individual and wanted to see for my self how it worked and I could afford it.  I have a few torque wrenches so it would not be my primary torque wrench in any case.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1304-torque-wrench-testing/

Brian
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Moto

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2016, 09:30:07 PM »


The left jar is for the transmission and CARC of my Griso, and the right for the transmission and bevel box of my T3.

In defense of my jar system (which I mentioned earlier)...

1) cheap! (free jars with every set of pickels)

2) easy to clean, since you can fit a sponge inside

3) easy to keep dirt out of, since they come with lids

4) self-documenting, as you can see, using label tape

5) using wide mouth jars reduces the problem of oil adhering to the walls of the container*

Against my system:

1) It's hard to get the labels on exactly horizontally, in my experience. (The dashed lines at either end indicate the correct levels.)

2) Subject to breakage

Moto

P.S. After measuring, I use a syringe or a funnel to put the oil in, depending on clearance.

*Elementary calculus shows the area of the sides and the bottom of an open-top cylinder is minimized for any given volume when the diameter is twice the height. (Not when it is equal to the height, as for a cylinder when including the area of both a top and a bottom.)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 09:39:40 PM by Moto »

Offline ken farr

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2016, 10:03:57 PM »


The left jar is for the transmission and CARC of my Griso, and the right for the transmission and bevel box of my T3.

In defense of my jar system (which I mentioned earlier)...

1) cheap! (free jars with every set of pickels)

2) easy to clean, since you can fit a sponge inside

3) easy to keep dirt out of, since they come with lids

4) self-documenting, as you can see, using label tape

5) using wide mouth jars reduces the problem of oil adhering to the walls of the container*

Against my system:

1) It's hard to get the labels on exactly horizontally, in my experience. (The dashed lines at either end indicate the correct levels.)

2) Subject to breakage

Moto

P.S. After measuring, I use a syringe or a funnel to put the oil in, depending on clearance.

*Elementary calculus shows the area of the sides and the bottom of an open-top cylinder is minimized for any given volume when the diameter is twice the height. (Not when it is equal to the height, as for a cylinder when including the area of both a top and a bottom.)


.....well, yeah...... :rolleyes:


kjf
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Moto

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2016, 10:16:52 PM »

.....well, yeah...... :rolleyes:


kjf

 :evil:
I couldn't resist! It took me a couple of hours to correct my own mistakes in the derivation. I'm practicing up on my high school math fearing what lies ahead with my kid.

My apologies...

M.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:21:53 PM by Moto »

Offline Rusnak_322

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2016, 09:16:57 AM »
This got a lot of good reviews, so I bought one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-68283.html

the thing is supposable very accurate and you can use it to check your other torque wrench calibrations by putting the bottom in a vise and torqueing the top with your other wrench. Gives you visual and audio notifications when you get close to and at the desired setting.

I don't build motors anymore, so it is more then adequate for what I wrench on.
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Offline ken farr

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2016, 10:51:01 AM »
:evil:
I couldn't resist! It took me a couple of hours to correct my own mistakes in the derivation. I'm practicing up on my high school math fearing what lies ahead with my kid.

My apologies...

M.


 :grin: :grin: :grin:
Yep, been there, done that.
Was doing pretty well, then finally one day I looked at his work, threw up my hands and said  " it's all yours "
He had passed the point of no return for me. 

 :bow: :bow:


kjf
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Offline Jim C

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Re: Measuring Liquids and Torque Wrenches
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2016, 04:53:29 PM »
Quote
I've got this Evercraft 3/8" drive torque wrench from Napa, 5-80ft lb.  I bought it's big brother in 1/2" drive, too.  Nice set for under $100, I've been very happy with them.  On the shelf at your local Napa store.

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/BK_7760951/BK_7760951

Steve,

I don't know what's different, but maybe NAPA decided that the accuracy wasn't good
down to 5 ft/lbs, because I went over to NAPA and picked up one of the wrenches you
recommended and it's definitely 10-80, not 5-80. Just thought you should know.
Thanks for the heads-up on both, though.

Jim
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