Ikon shocks for V7II Stone

[stevet]

Happy Holidays and all that...

Over the winter I'm ordering my Christmas present, a new set of shocks for Sophia, my red V7II Stone.

I think I've settled on the black spring Ikon 7610-1623, http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=197_200&products_id=2632

I like the price of the Hagon shocks at about a hundred dollars less, but the Ikon shocks also have rebound damping adjustment that the Hagon lack.  Both are given their due respect on this board for sure, but I think I'll go for the extra damping feature of the Ikon.

And any other thoughts on Ikon, or Hagon, or other similarly priced shocks would be appreciated.  I have been reading old posts on this subject, but new thoughts and/or new user impressions are welcome.

Thanks,
Steve.

PDF of the Ikon manual, showing a cross section on the first page-
http://www.ikonsuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IKON_May19_2014_PRESS.pdf

Photos from the MG Cycle website:


Damping adjuster-

[Vasco DG]

Craig Clancy has them on his Stone and says they are a thousand times better than the OE crap. For many years Koni, who became IKON when they sold the tooling to Oz, were the 'Go To' for improved suspension on most twin shock machines. I still have them on both my 'Vert and SP.

Pete

[krglorioso]

Last Spring, I called IKON in San Francisco and said that in view of my rather...ah...svelt e 138# construction, I wanted a set of 7610s for my 2003 Stone Touring with the right springs that wouldn't feel rigid under me.

IKON got back to me in a couple of days after consultation with their OZ engineer and sent me a set of shocks that are perfect, just perfect, and make riding much more enjoyable. 

Ralph

[organfixsing]

I fitted IKONs to my 2015 Stone.They were purchased via Motociclo in Sydney.
I purchased them there so that I could be sure of getting the correct shocks.
I had a further thought about this and ordered the progressive fork springs as well.
When I fitted the rear shocks, and took it for a test ride, I was convinced that I had wasted my money on these shocks.
Being determined to throw good money after bad, I decided to fit the progressive fork springs I had purchased.
The progressive fork springs are rather longer than the originals  (from memory 200mm longer) and so new preload tubes were cut on the table saw from polyethelene standpipe to give preload equivalent to the originals.
Filled the forks with 5W Penrite fork oil with 140mm air space.
Voila. The bike is now extremely pleasant to ride. I am uber happy with this.

Cheers
Brian

[Cam3512]

I put those same shocks on my '14 Special.  They're not a $1K suspension quality upgrade, but for the money they made a huge difference over stock.  Very noticeable. 

[stevet]

Good, seems there is no reason not to go with the Ikon shocks.

I'm 215 pounds sans any gear, let's say 235'ish geared up ready to ride (clothing, boots, Aerostich suit, helmet...).  Luggage is modest, a C-Bow system with light freight, so add another... 20 pounds, tops, luggage and contents.  No passenger, the bike is only used for solo riding.  So, maybe 255 pounds extra on top the bike.  Is it safe to assume the off-the-shelf shocks, set up as delivered, are sprung okay for that weight, or should I contact Ikon to verify with them that the standard supplied springs are sufficient?

Steve.

[malik]

I'd contact Ikon. It's a phone call to get it right.

[clubman]

Good, seems there is no reason not to go with the Ikon shocks.

I'm 215 pounds sans any gear, let's say 235'ish geared up ready to ride (clothing, boots, Aerostich suit, helmet...).  Luggage is modest, a C-Bow system with light freight, so add another... 20 pounds, tops, luggage and contents.  No passenger, the bike is only used for solo riding.  So, maybe 255 pounds extra on top the bike.  Is it safe to assume the off-the-shelf shocks, set up as delivered, are sprung okay for that weight, or should I contact Ikon to verify with them that the standard supplied springs are sufficient?

Steve.



I've had the Ikon's for over 20K mi. now, and about the same weight as you. No problems. They will be a little stiff till broken in.

[stevet]

Thanks much.  I just sent an email to Ikon USA (San Fran.) to get their advice, too.  But you can't beat first-hand user experiences.

Steve.

[Clancy]

Craig Clancy has them on his Stone and says they are a thousand times better than the OE crap.

I did do that and I did say that.

[stevet]

I heard back from Ikon USA.  For my estimated 255 pounds of rider, gear, luggage and freight, I am, " in the standard spring range, no problem."  Dave went on to say that my weight breakdown is just what he gets from a customer before submitting an order to the factory engineers to build a shock for a bike.  I'm satisfied, I'll be ordering a pair.  ikonusa@gmail.com  https://www.ikonsuspensionusa.com/

Thanks for all the help.
Steve.

[drlapo]

I went with hagons after speaking with the ikon rep at the NYC bike show
He explained that the ikons are equipped with "universal" or standard springs for a variety of rider weights
Dave Quinn set the hagons up for my weight and riding style

I don't understand how a spring rate can be correct for both 150 pound and225 pound riders

[kingoffleece]

It can't.

[stevet]

I don't understand how a spring rate can be correct for both 150 pound and225 pound riders

That's a good point, and since I don't have a background in metallurgy or mechanical engineering I can't give an educated answer.

But I would make the observation that every vehicle on the road, including motorcycles, does impose constantly varying loads upon the suspension regardless of vehicle occupant weight.  (A sedan carrying 1-5 passengers, a pickup truck hauling construction materials, a motorcyclist carrying gear for a seasonal trip, etc.).  Imperfections of the road surface come into play upon the springs, and that is the name of the game here in the upper midwest- crappy pavement thanks to winter conditions.  The rider pushes down on the springs, but the road surface pushes back up against them.  That upward push is pretty steady on smooth pavement, but how does a suspension spring act while on varying surfaces- potholes and expansion joints and frost heave and manhole covers?  Is this where the "progressive" style spring comes into play?  One part of the spring designed for the lighter end of its working range but when big loads (from the rider or his freight or the road surface) come along the rest of the spring kicks in?

I'm glad you brought that up, it made me think about what that chunk of coiled metal rod actually does.  It keeps the tire in constant contact with an ever changing road surface, it suspends the bike over the constant up and down movement of the wheel.  The internal damping keeps the reaction of the spring under control.

But the advantage I want of the Ikon over some of the other choices is the adjustable damping, the function that controls how quickly that spring is reacting to the forces placed upon it.  Even though it will cost me more, this was, really, the only reason I am choosing the Ikon over the Hagon.  If the Hagon had adjustable damping, it would boil down to who has the better price, then buy it.

(Did I say this right?  This is how I picture these functions taking place, the spring and the internal damping.)

Ikon is willing to make a shock with other rated springs.  In the USA, here's how you start that process-
http://www.ikonsuspensionusa.com/custom_order/

But I'd bet that any of the shock makers are not stocking springs at say... 10 pound increments, for rider weights varying between 120 and 350 pounds.  A crazy notion, I realize, but I would think they all can, and maybe do, utilize a small range of springs, something arbitrary like light, medium, and heavy, or something like that.  Maybe an extra step or two in there, but who knows.

Steve.

[pyoungbl]

Steve, I believe you are absolutely correct in that there are only so many increments of resistance available for a given spring diameter and length.  My experience is that the shock techs make an educated guess as to what will work best, based on your weight and type of riding.  It's still up to the end user to figure out if that setup is Ok or not.  My initial setup from RaceTech was not to my liking so I had them make some adjustments.  That follow up service is well worth a slight premium price, in my humble opinion.  This is not an endorsement for RT, just an observation on the industry as a whole.

Peter Y.

[drlapo]

I've spoken to Dave Quinn a number of times at bike meets in the northeast.  he stocks Hagon shocks in various damping settings and has a very large inventory of springs.  Hagon does make a shock with variable damping for more $ but Dave convinced me that he can make up a  set for me that will work and save a few $.  He was right on my Triumph Thruxton and the shocks for the V7 "feel" good so far.
it was the comments of the Ikon rep at the NYC bike show that swayed me i.e. I liked the fact that Dave Quinn would select springs for me.
it was similar when I installed cartridge emulators and springs from RaceTech in my
Thruxton.  I assumed that progressive springs were best.  RaceTech sent me straight wound springs 30% stiffer than stock, and I weigh 150 pounds.  They were right; much better.
so now I'm a fan of the expert's opinion on spring rates
no doubt the Ikon product is very good but I live in eastern Ct and I'm  a Yankee fan too