help needed with K&S switch wiring

[bigbikerrick]

Hello folks, I am replacing the oem switches from my 76 Convert with the aftermarket K&S 12-0030 that MG cycle sells. I matched up the wiring colors using Greg Benders site where it shows how to hook it up for a Cal II. I got High beam, Low, turn signals, lights on /off , flash to pass to work, but I cant get the horn to work. I have 2 wires "left over" from the bike side, that I could not figgure out where to hook up to the K&S. I have a red/ black wire, and a grey wire, coming from the bike behind the headlight, that I dont know where to connect, on the K&S switch side  harness I have a pink wire with nothing connected to it. Doy you guys have any idea what I did wrong?
thanks alot
Rick. Duarte

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

It's been 5 years since I did mine, so I don't remember how I did it exactly.

Horn (wire to distribution panel)    Pink                                                          White with black tracer
Horn (wire to ground)                    Black                                                  Black
Right turn signal / turn indicator    Dark Green                                           Pink
Turn signal / turn indicator (live wire from fuse panel; goes through flasher unit / blinker unit)    Brown with white tracer    Orange
Left turn signal / turn indicator    Brown (appears gray to Charlie)    Green with black tracer
Running lights / parking lights (tail light, gauge illumination lights, etc.)    Blue    Yellow
Headlight high beam    Yellow    Brown
Live wire from fuse panel    Red with yellow tracer    Red
Headlight low beam    Green    Green

Note: The red wire with black tracer and the gray wire are hooked together.

Did you hook the red/black and grey together?

[Matteo]

From this old tractor

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks Charlie and Matteo. Yes , Charlie, I tried hooking the red/black wire together with the gray, and still no horn.  I could not find any wire from the bikes wiring plug behind the headlight that is white with a black tracer. I used Greg Bender's site info to refer to, like you brought to my attention, Matteo, and thats what I guided myself by. I guess the CalII must be a little different? When I did my Call II auto's switches, I followed the color code exactly, as shown, and everything worked perfect.

 I am going to have to go back over everything, look at what you guys sent me,and go from there. Hopefully I can get this sorted pretty easily.FWIW, The switch on the right side wired up ,and works perfectly, per Mr. Benders instructions.


After dinner, I am going back out to the shop, and look at everything with a "fresh head of steam"
Thanks
Rick Duarte

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If you get stuck, I can unplug my Convert's left-hand switch and tell you what color is in what position in the Molex shell. There's a chance I even wrote it down somewhere...

[bigbikerrick]

If you get stuck, I can unplug my Convert's left-hand switch and tell you what color is in what position in the Molex shell. There's a chance I even wrote it down somewhere...

Thanks for the offer Charlie, But I think I can figgure this little mystery out, out, I will let you all know how it goes.
Thanks
Rick

[bigbikerrick]

Ok Folks, here is what I tried...I hooked the red/black, and grey wires wires from the bikes side of the wiring together, and still no horn function, I tested the horn with 12V direct jumper and it works like that, so I know the horns are ok. I have 12V + at the brown horn connectors that hook up to the horns, when ever the key is on, so it looks like there is 12V to the horns all the time the key is on, so the horn switch must close the circuit, by activating the ground , to make the horn honk. Does that make any sense? could it be a grounding issue on the new switch?
Thanks
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

I am still working on the no horn issue, and found this on Greg Benders site, where he makes a plug/play harness for the K&S switch..could this be a clue to my problem?

Please note: Some original handlebar switches were grounded through the handlebar. Other original switches were grounded through the Molex 12-pin connector. If needed for your application, a separate ground wire will be provided for use inside the headlight shell. Simply fit it in position 3 of the 12-pin Molex plug inside the headlight shell (position 1 has a red/black wire). Connect the other end with the piggyback terminal to the ground location inside the headlight shell.

what do you guys think?
thanks
Rick D.

[Kiwi_Roy]

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1975_Convert_USA.gif
The 75 schematic shows the horns grounded directly through the switch, I don't think that is practical horns require a lot of current to work properly I would provide a horn relay and either use that to ground the horns to chassis or switch the brown wire with the horns grounded.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1981_California_II.gif As it shows on the California II
I am not familiar with the switch you are using can you post a link.
I have a 76 Convert and had a bit of a struggle with the switch as well, a previous owner had a chair attached and used the horn button to activate the starter, i'm told he was missing his right arms had all the controls on the left.
There is also some confusion about how the fuse box gets its power, I would be inclined to power the horn fuse directly from the battery positive to gaurantee a good feed.
Good Luck
Roy

[bigbikerrick]

Thats some helpful information, Roy. This is the left side switch I installed. Yes, I plan to install separate relays for the headlight, starter, and horns. I figgured, I had better get the horns to work "normally" before I further complicate things, and confuse myself even more, with the relay installation.

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=183

Thank you
Rick Duarte

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Okay, here is how mine is wired.

In this photo:




Wires from the K&S switch are inserted into the following positions:
Left row, top to bottom: Black, Yellow, Brown, Brown/White
Middle row: empty, Green, Dark Green, Pink
Right row: Red/Yellow, empty, Blue, empty.

Back side of the connector.

[bigbikerrick]

Okay, here is how mine is wired.

In this photo:




Wires from the K&S switch are inserted into the following positions:
Left row, top to bottom: Black, Yellow, Brown, Brown/White
Middle row: empty, Green, Dark Green, Pink
Right row: Red/Yellow, empty, Blue, empty.

Back side of the connector.

Charlie, you are a prince!  I have written down everything you posted, and will do a comparison as soon as I get back .

Thank you very much!
Rick

PS just by looking at how you wired it up, I can tell. its different than mine, I will have to rewire it your way,and see what happens.

[bigbikerrick]

I will be away from my home where the convert is until Saturday. I cant wait to try it your way, Charlie. will post back on how it works out.
thanks
Rick.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ok Folks, here is what I tried...I hooked the red/black, and grey wires wires from the bikes side of the wiring together, and still no horn function, I tested the horn with 12V direct jumper and it works like that, so I know the horns are ok. I have 12V + at the brown horn connectors that hook up to the horns, when ever the key is on, so it looks like there is 12V to the horns all the time the key is on, so the horn switch must close the circuit, by activating the ground , to make the horn honk. Does that make any sense? could it be a grounding issue on the new switch?
Thanks
Rick.

That sounds right I think you may need a ground wire from the switch to a ground point on the chassis, you could try attaching a wire to a handy bolt and touch the other end to the other horn terminal (not Brown)
I think the horn button may be grounded through the bars but a 16 gauge copper wire will be better.

[bigbikerrick]

The ground thing makes sense. My wiring colors/ location, are different than what Charlie showed,( God Bless him for going through all that, to show me clearly)  I am anxious to get to my Convert, so I can compare wiring, and get that sorted. I am currently in my Tucson area house, as my wife took a job transfer, up here, and I am keeping her company. When I get back to my home down south in Douglas, this weekend, where the convert is, I want to dive right into this with all the new information I now have.

Rick D.

[Tom H]

One thing you might check. If your handle bars are rubber mounted, they may not be grounded. Try a bit of wire from the bar to a bolt on the frame or the neg. on the battery and then hit the horn button.

Just a thought,
Tom

[bigbikerrick]

I get back home, where the Convert is on saturday. I will check that Tom. I think the bars are a solid ground contact point, but that test is easy to try.
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

Hello Charlie, I have spent a few hours working on the switch wiring,and still cant get it right. Apparently the wiring colors ,and where they fit into the plug are different on my Convert. Here is what I have, like you showed the plug in your hand, on mine starting at the left row top, I have Empty, brown, pink,orange,  middle row from top empty, green,white, black, and right row from the top, is red/black, red, yellow, and gray. These colors are on the Guzzi molex connector. The K&S switch activates, the high/low beams, running lights, Right and left turn signals, even the "flash" function.
I am assuming I hooked all those correctly to the switch as all that is working correctly.
 The only thing I cant get to work is the darn  horns
Its currently midnight, and my head is spinning, not making any progress. I think I will call it a night, get some rest,and attack it again tomorrow.
Thanks alot
Rick Duarte

[bigbikerrick]

Does a 76 Convert have a relay for the horns anywhere? I was thinking, if there could be a relay for the horns that may have gone bad, and there is actually nothing wrong with the switch wiring? 
thanks Rick.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Does a 76 Convert have a relay for the horns anywhere? I was thinking, if there could be a relay for the horns that may have gone bad, and there is actually nothing wrong with the switch wiring? 
thanks Rick.

IIRC, the horn wiring connects to the headlight flash relay, but doesn't actually use that relay, it's just connected there. Weird. I added a separate relay on mine.

[bigbikerrick]

That sure is very strange, Charlie.  I was suspecting some issue in the wiring to the horns, or was suspecting a factory horn relay somewhere.  I plan to do more troubleshooting  later today,and see if I can figgure out this weird issue.
thanks alot
Rick D.

[bigbikerrick]

Hello Folks, here is an update on my "Convert Horn Saga"....  I have found ther is only power to the brown wires that go to the horns when the ignition switch is in the "park" position, or turned one click counterclockwise, and there is also constant power to the brown horn wire, with the ignition switch in the center or "OFF" position. When I turn the switch to the RUN position( one click clockwise from off) there is no power to the brown horn wires. 

 Also My ignition switch allows the key to be removed in any of the 3 positions including "RUN" Is that normal? 
 
The pink wire coming from the K&S switch, which is supposed to ground the horn to make it honk, I tested with a test light hooked up to the battery positive. It only provides ground in the park position on the ignition switch, when I place the ignition switch on "RUN" the pink horn wire no longer provides ground when the horn button is depressed, only when the ignition switch is in park, or OFF position.
This leads me to believe that the K&S switch is not grounding by contact with the handlebar, but through the  molex connector , somehow.

Is this as clear as mud?   Any ideas what may be going on ?
Thanks
Rick.

[bigbikerrick]

Hey Guys, I figgured it out!  The K&S switch has a pink wire coming off it with nothing to hook up to, all I had to do is run a dedicated ground wire to the pink wire and all is well, horn honks, and all the other electrical functions are working as they should. Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions. These electrical issues sometimes can be tough to sort, at least for me. I guess the problem was the new switch had no way of grounding itself when I pressed the horn button to complete the circuit.
Rick D.