V85 Gearbox Oil -- Type and Quantity

[Paultergeist]

Apologies if this is well-known by others -- I tried to read the manual on this but I couldn't get much information....

What type of oil does the V85 gearbox use -- and roughly how much?  I just had my dealer perform a service on the bike which reportedly included (among other things) a replacement of the oil in BOTH the engine crankcase as well as the gearbox.  I was charged for 1 gallon of 10-60W Maxima Synthetic oil.......does that sound about right?  One gallon of oil for both the engine and gearbox?

Thanks for any clarification.

[elvisboy77]

Apologies if this is well-known by others -- I tried to read the manual on this but I couldn't get much information....

What type of oil does the V85 gearbox use -- and roughly how much?  I just had my dealer perform a service on the bike which reportedly included (among other things) a replacement of the oil in BOTH the engine crankcase as well as the gearbox.  I was charged for 1 gallon of 10-60W Maxima Synthetic oil.......does that sound about right?  One gallon of oil for both the engine and gearbox?

Thanks for any clarification.

page 133 of my 2020 V85TT manual has

Engine oil Oil change and oil filter
replacement: 1760 cm³ (107.40
cu.in)
Gearbox oil 700 cm³ (42.72 cu in)

and on 134

Bevel gear set oil 180 cm³ (10.98 cu.in)

and on page 143:

Engine oil 10W-60 Synthetic based lubricant for high performance
four-stroke engines.
SAE 10W 60; JASO MA, MA2; API SG
75W-140 lubricant for gearboxes and
transmissions
Synthetic lubricant for gearboxes and
transmissions
SAE 75W-140 - API GL5

So:  About 2 quarts of 10 W 60 engine oil, about 1 quart of 75W-140 gear oil for transmission and rear drive total.

FYI 1 CM3 is one cubic centimeter is 1 CC.  There are 1000 ccs in a liter.  A liter is a bit more than a US quart.

While you were charged for a gallon of oil (4 quarts) it almost sounds like they either didn't have a cost for the gear oil or just estimated it.

It would be wise to confirm that they put the right oil in the gear boxes.  BTW my manual says first gearbox changes are at around 18,000 miles.  Not called for at the 900 mile mark or others.  Page 142 in the manual.

[Paultergeist]

Elvisboy,

First of all, thank you very much for going to such detail in responding to my questions.  I am finding myself increasingly puzzled about a couple of things:

I ALSO have a 2020 V85 TT, but it seems that I may have a different version of the manual than you......which is really odd!  For clarification, my manual is this very small black book, written in a couple of languages, and I have to use a magnifying glass to read some sections.  Page 133 of my version of the manual, for example, discusses fueling (only).

I DO note the following stated on page 193 of my version of the manual:  "For gearbox oil removal, checking, and replacement, please contact an official Moto Guzzi dealership."  I am now wondering if MG modified their manual in an effort to steer folks away from doing their own maintenance?

I was aware that the changing of gearbox oil was occurring early; the dealership talked me into the idea of changing the engine oil, gearbox oil, and rear-drive oil all at the same time as an extra-good thing for the break-in.  I am fine with that idea, but I am not so fine if they used the improper type of oil for that gearbox.  My receipt is pretty clear about the one gallon of 10-60W, and I do not see anything else listed for use in the gearbox (they DO list a specific oil used for the hypoid gear.)  Something is not making sense.

I am starting to get a not-so-warm-and-fuzzy feeling about all of this.  I think I may just get all new oil and swap out everything myself.

Thanks again for the information.

[jrt]

I would say- don't overthink it'.  Language in the manual is just covering corporate liability.  If you use the correct amounts, document the work, then you are fine.   I used redline shockproof heavy in mine.  Definitely use the correct volumes of oil. Guzzi's tend to be less forgiving in that area.
Oil, really, is pretty cheap.  You'll have more time invested than cost of oil.  So- if it sets you mind at ease- then change the oil again.  Won't hurt it a bit. 
 

[Tom H]

If I'm reading this right. You are thinking that the people that serviced you bike used only engine oil in the engine, transmission/gear box and rear drive.

If that is the case, I would first be contacting the people that did the work to confirm what type make, model, version and Quantity of lubricants were put in where. Then depending on the answer, take it back to them and have them fix it.

If YOU really want to try to figure out what they did. You could pull the engine dip sick and smell/feel the lube. Then pull the filler plug from the trans and rear end. You may need to carefully insert a stick or the like into the hole to get a sample. Conventional gear oil has a distinct smell. Not sure how synthetic gear oil smells.

Unless synthetic gear oil smells like synthetic engine oil and you checked the engine, trans and rear end yourself. I might just be raising the unholy heck!

Sorry to hear of this and hope it was an honest billing glitch, good luck,
Tom

[motospotter]

Online manuals for the V85 are here, you can upload or just view on the website. Might be easier to read on your computer.

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_small_blocks_workshop_manuals___shop_manuals___service_manuals.html

[Bisbonian]

I believe the amount of oil for the final drive has been updated with a lower amount and the 180cc is not accurate.
I can't remember if the new amount is 160cc or 140cc, but I think the change was to prevent leaks in the final drive.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The manual is confusing but the picture shows to check the level of the rear end by taking out the level plug at the rear same as all the other Guzzi's
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v85_en.pdf
Capacities are given on page CHAR-8, MAIN-17, MAIN-18 & MAIN-19
I was surprised to see the same oil used in the gearbox and transmission (rear end)
The manual shows a sight glass for the engine, not a dip stick.
I should point out I don't own a V85, I'm just familiar with the Guzzi manuals.
Tip: To avoid making a mess, leave the filler plugs in place while you remove the drain plugs, this slows down the rush of oil.
Once you have the drain plug out then you can open the filler and break the vacuum.
Have a few of the aluminium crush washers on hand, 8 & 10mm you can usually re-use them a couple of times but after that they get too thin.
Same for the large "O" ring on the oil filter cover.

And don't forget the white cotton gloves LOL

[elvisboy77]

Elvisboy,

First of all, thank you very much for going to such detail in responding to my questions.  I am finding myself increasingly puzzled about a couple of things:

I ALSO have a 2020 V85 TT, but it seems that I may have a different version of the manual than you......which is really odd!  For clarification, my manual is this very small black book, written in a couple of languages, and I have to use a magnifying glass to read some sections.  Page 133 of my version of the manual, for example, discusses fueling (only).

I DO note the following stated on page 193 of my version of the manual:  "For gearbox oil removal, checking, and replacement, please contact an official Moto Guzzi dealership."  I am now wondering if MG modified their manual in an effort to steer folks away from doing their own maintenance?

I was aware that the changing of gearbox oil was occurring early; the dealership talked me into the idea of changing the engine oil, gearbox oil, and rear-drive oil all at the same time as an extra-good thing for the break-in.  I am fine with that idea, but I am not so fine if they used the improper type of oil for that gearbox.  My receipt is pretty clear about the one gallon of 10-60W, and I do not see anything else listed for use in the gearbox (they DO list a specific oil used for the hypoid gear.)  Something is not making sense.

I am starting to get a not-so-warm-and-fuzzy feeling about all of this.  I think I may just get all new oil and swap out everything myself.

Thanks again for the information.

You are welcome!  Lots of misinformation, that is why I read the factory manual.  Mine is a PDF version, probably the one referred to elsewhere in this thread

There is no point in second guessing the folks that designed and built the bike.  I would tell dealers what you want them to do, a list based on the manual, rather than leave it to their "knowledge and judgement".  Everybody has an opinion on this stuff.

Since the motor oil is a lot less thick than gear oil I would just make sure they used the right stuff (ASK THEM!) and ride it like you stole it.

And as others have said, if you are handy with a wrench just do it yourself.

Enjoy your amazing bike!

[kballowe]

Since the motor oil is a lot less thick than gear oil I would just make sure they used the right stuff (ASK THEM!) and ride it like you stole it.

Gear oil and motor oil are graded differently.   For example, the viscosity of 90 gear oil is roughly equivalent to a 40/50 grade motor oil

[Bisbonian]

Depending upon the date of the manual you are using, you may not have the correct capacity for the final drive. The original spec was 180cc however this was revised down to 160cc near the end of 2019 due to leaks.

I grabbed this out of another thread here. Note the transmission referred to is the final drive unit in Guzzi-speak.


TECHNICAL COMMUNICATION G_190781_TC_EN                                                                            30/08/2019
Model: Moto Guzzi V85TT and V9

Dear Dealer / Service Centre,
In response to a number of cases of oil escaping from the transmission reported by the service network, Moto Guzzi has decided to implement and publish a number of changes to the Service Station Manual and Use and Maintenance Manual of the aforementioned vehicles.

Please note the following matters in particular:
1. The procedure to check the transmission oil level during predelivery preparation and inspection of the vehicle has been eliminated and MUST NOT be performed.
2. The transmission oil must now ONLY be changed at 30,000 km intervals, together with the other activities planned for the respective service (see operations described in the Service Station Manual and the chapter 'Maintenance' of the Use and Maintenance Manual);
3. The only method now permitted for checking (indirectly) and topping up the oil level is to drain all the oil from the drain plug and then refill via the filler plug with the oil drained, adding, if required, the quantity of oil necessary to reach a total of 160 cc , which must not be exceeded (see point 4). NO other methods for checking the oil level are permitted.
NO topping up is permitted without following the aforementioned procedure, as simply topping up without draining the oil cannot ensure that the quantity of oil effectively in the transmission is correct, and may lead to the following problems:

 An excessive quantity of lubricant oil in the transmission may cause oil to overflow from the breather valve and foul other parts of the vehicle, such as the rear tyre.
4. The revised quantity of oil for filling the transmission indicated in the Service Station Manual and Use and Maintenance Manual is now 160 cc.
The revised quantity is lower than the nominal fill value indicated previously of 180 cc., as it is applicable for filling the transmission after draining in the event of an oil change (where some lubricant oil will still remain in the transmission case after draining).
5. Where it is necessary to replace the complete transmission casing with a new component received from the spare parts department, the new transmission will be received already run-in in the factory and will therefore also contain a small quantity of residual oil. Proceed as follows:
   a) Install the new transmission on the vehicle
   b) Remove the filler and drain plugs and allow the residual oil in the transmission to drain for at least 5 minutes.
   c) Clean the surrounding area and then fit and tighten the drain plug to the specified torque, using a new gasket; fill the transmission with precisely 160 cc of oil via the filler plug orifice.
   d) Fit and tighten the filler plug to the specified torque, using a new gasket.
   e) Fit the new breather valve. If the transmission casing is received with the breather valve already installed, remove the valve, blow with compressed air to remove any residual oil, and then refit the breather valve correctly.

[Paultergeist]

Everyone,

This thread probably needs to close-out.  I want to offer my sincere thanks --once again -- to all of you for your detailed replies.

I had an in-depth discussion with the servicing department.  They pointed out that the "hypoid" gear oil charged to me was for a quantity of 1 liter, and that the 1 liter amount was adequate to refill both the gearbox and the [rear wheel] final drive.  From what I can tell, it indeed seems to be appropriate to use the same oil (75-140W, I believe) for those two chambers, and that 1 liter would have been enough.  I was looking on the receipt for a third oil charge -- not knowing that two different oils were sufficient to change three chambers on the bike (engine, gearbox, final drive).

Several things about the oil checking/changing on this bike seem increasingly challenging to me (to add, MY version of the User's Manual does not provide much of any information regarding gearbox oil -- unlike other versions of the same manual).  That being the case, however, I really do like the idea of getting fresh oil in all the major mechanical chambers where metal things rub against other metals things.  I am inclined to accept that the service department knows what they are doing, made the right recommendations, and did the right things.  Moving forward, I would like to slowly learn how to do some of the work on this bike myself, but that will take time.

I'm going to consider this resolved for now.  Thanks again for all of the support.

[Milosh]

Just buy this.

https://cadrecycle.com/product/moto-guzzi-v85tt-12000-service-kit/

[elvisboy77]

Everyone,

This thread probably needs to close-out.  I want to offer my sincere thanks --once again -- to all of you for your detailed replies.

I had an in-depth discussion with the servicing department.  They pointed out that the "hypoid" gear oil charged to me was for a quantity of 1 liter, and that the 1 liter amount was adequate to refill both the gearbox and the [rear wheel] final drive.  From what I can tell, it indeed seems to be appropriate to use the same oil (75-140W, I believe) for those two chambers, and that 1 liter would have been enough.  I was looking on the receipt for a third oil charge -- not knowing that two different oils were sufficient to change three chambers on the bike (engine, gearbox, final drive).

Several things about the oil checking/changing on this bike seem increasingly challenging to me (to add, MY version of the User's Manual does not provide much of any information regarding gearbox oil -- unlike other versions of the same manual).  That being the case, however, I really do like the idea of getting fresh oil in all the major mechanical chambers where metal things rub against other metals things.  I am inclined to accept that the service department knows what they are doing, made the right recommendations, and did the right things.  Moving forward, I would like to slowly learn how to do some of the work on this bike myself, but that will take time.

I'm going to consider this resolved for now.  Thanks again for all of the support.

I am so glad you got it sorted out! Now ride that thing like you stole it!

[Muzz]

As the owner of an '03 Breva I find it interesting that the Breva has 70/90 EP oil specified, yet the V85TT appears to have 75/14 specd for the box.

Comments anyone?

[elvisboy77]

Gear oil and motor oil are graded differently.   For example, the viscosity of 90 gear oil is roughly equivalent to a 40/50 grade motor oil

Perhaps, but pour both out and you will see that one is thicker than the other, or more viscous if you like

[Huzo]

Just a thing on doing your own changes.
I have changed the oils on my Norge 19 times and on the most recent, as I was nipping up the sump plug I felt the dreaded relaxation on the torque as the thread let go...
Fortunately it was the sump and not the gearbox.
I dropped the sump and helicoiled the thread, also using the opportunity to wipe out the inside. It was amazingly clean for a bike with 190,000 on the clock.
Anyway, I now ALWAYS use a new crush washer and lock wire the plug.

[kballowe]

Perhaps, but pour both out and you will see that one is thicker than the other, or more viscous if you like

That's (probably) because you're pouring a 10W-something motor oil against an 75W-something gear oil - at room temperature.  So yes, the gear oil would appear to be thicker in this instance - but not at operating temperature.