Motus merged threadfest

[Arizona Wayne]

And why would you build a V4 like that and not put a shaft drive on it??  I know, unsprung weight and all the other stuff that makes a chain "better".  

If it was a sport bike I'd understand, but, not one advertised as touring.

Oh well.

+1  Shaft drive wouldn't mean a whit as far as acceleration is concerned because that motor should have ooodles of torque.   ;-T  

[klr]

"Oh...I am on a long ride and I am currently in Billings, Montana and my new MOTUS has just died...someone help me please!" ;D :D ;) :)

That's what the NMOC is for.   ;)

[youcanrunnaked]

I think you guys are too high with the price point.  To be competitive, the bike can't cost more than the new Ducati Multistrada, which is at the top of the heap in its class (in quality, features, and price).  That is: $16,000 for the base model; $20,000 for the deluxe model with Ohlins bling and hard cases. If Motus can't pull that off, they might as well pack it in, now.

[travelingbyguzzi]

A very exciting bike; I wish them much success. The headpipes appear to be a bit vulnerable, perhaps?

[JJ]

"Oh...I am on a long ride and I am currently in Billings, Montana and my new MOTUS has just died...someone help me please!" ;D :D ;) :)

That's what the NMOC is for.   ;)

NMOC - National Motus Owners Club I presume?!? :o :o :o ::) ::) ??? ??? 

Not like the BMW Anonymous, or H.O.G..... or even the MGNOC for that matter - sorry! ;D :D ;) :)

You are still stuck in Billings, Montana..(with winter approaching....), and the closest other MOTUS owner is in...(for example) Chicago!  (Oooops!) ;D :D ;) :)

[leafman60]

They have a steep hill to climb but I admire them and hope it works out !

[JJ]

They have a steep hill to climb but I admire them and hope it works out !

Agreed (+1) :)  The reality is that it is just very, VERY difficult to build ANY new motorcycle these days without A LOT (read >$100M) of money!  (just ask Kenny Dreer of Norton America...)

[bad Chad]

I think the $30,000 plus in about where this will be marketed.  It's a limited production bike, their economy of scale alone dictates it's going to require a high price point.  And as to the question as why someone would want to pay this when they could have that, novelty.   Anyone can go out a by a Dival and ride up to there local bike night, but if your able to get your hands on a Motos, you will absolutely be the bell of the ball!  Some people will pay a lot for that kind of thing, most wont, but Motos thinks there are enough to make it work.

[AJ Huff]

I think the $30,000 plus in about where this will be marketed.  It's a limited production bike, there economy of scale alone it going to require a high price point.  And as to the question as why someone would want to pay this when they could have that, novelty.   Anyone can go out a by a Dival and ride up to there local bike night, but if your able to get your hands on a Motos, you will absolutely be the bell of the ball!  Some people will pay a lot for that kind of thing, most wont, but Motos thinks there are enough to make it work.

+1

-AJ

[Arizona Wayne]

I think the $30,000 plus in about where this will be marketed.  It's a limited production bike, their economy of scale alone dictates it's going to require a high price point.  And as to the question as why someone would want to pay this when they could have that, novelty.   Anyone can go out a by a Dival and ride up to there local bike night, but if your able to get your hands on a Motos, you will absolutely be the bell of the ball!  Some people will pay a lot for that kind of thing, most wont, but Motos thinks there are enough to make it work.

Or ride up on a Piaggio MP3(<$10K) and you'll get the same attention .  ;) ;D

[scooterjock]

The same issue of Motorcyclist also has an article on the rebirth of Hesketh by Alan "I never met a motorcycle I didn't like" Cathcart.  I do not know of any Hesketh Owners Clubs (though there would be alot of kids signing up for a Vampire Riders Club) that exist in the US and I have only seen two Heskeths in person (they only manufactured 139 total).  I did see the Motus at Daytona this year and I believe that they intend to sell in the $25K to $30K range.  Too much for my tastes.

[JJ]

Or ride up on a Piaggio MP3(<$10K) and you'll get the same attention .  ;) ;D
[/quote]

Or, ride up on any nice Moto Guzzi or other vintage bike and get the same reaction... :)

[bad Chad]

I have to disagree with you there.   Nice Guzzi's and vintages do get a lot of attention.  But by comparison they are common place, compared to a brand new made in US v4 that looks and sounds like this thing, forget about it.

[bpreynolds]

I have to disagree with you there.   Nice Guzzi's and vintages do get a lot of attention.  But by comparison they are common place, compared to a brand new made in US v4 that looks and sounds like this thing, forget about it.

Honestly, I don't really think it looks that great or any better than some of the classic MG designs.  That block of an engine is okay but I dunno about the rest.  The exposed frame reminds me of some Ducs.  But anyhow, I can't believe I'm taking point on admiration at a bike night but since novelty and "look at me" impression would have to factor into investing such $$$ into a machine like this, I do think you'd get the same - or even better - reaction at bike night from driving up on a Guzzi.  At least the guys at the bike night have some vague notion of what a Guzzi is.  What?  Are you gonna tell the guys at bike night that your Motus costs 30 grand?  Most of them will just notice that it sounds good.  Then they'll notice it's a sports tourer.  Then they'll walk back over to the Guzzi.   :BEER:

[bad Chad]

I guess we will see, if this thing actually makes it to market.   Personally, I think the prototype looks pretty rough.   The motor may be something special, but in this state it looks wrong.  I suspect the finished product would be cleaned up a lot.

[JJ]

I guess we will see, if this thing actually makes it to market.   Personally, I think the prototype looks pretty rough.   The motor may be something special, but in this state it looks wrong.  I suspect the finished product would be cleaned up a lot.

Of course, it depends on the Guzzi and/or the vintage bike, yes?  However, I do know what you mean - That MOTUS is one "way cool" motor - but the price of admission ($30K-$35K) is going to be a stretch for many, many people in this economy.  I hope I get to see one on the road someday.  I missed the road show when it came through AZ.  Would have loved to see one in person... :)

[AJ Huff]

Always sell to people with disposable income and you'll always have a job.

-AJ

[Offcamber1]

I'd like to know the specifics about the financing behind the company.  As my old boss used to say, "The road to ruin is strewn with good intentions."  (Super X, remember them?)

They are not going to make enough of them to achieve significant economies of scale.  Somewhere in the article they were hoping for some pretty small production numbers; that will translate to high entry costs for sure.  I hope somebody behind it has DEEEEEP Pockets!

What price exclusitivity?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Have y'all seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbn_uZ2Z3EY&feature=youtu.be

Thought not.  ;)

[youcanrunnaked]

Have y'all seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbn_uZ2Z3EY&feature=youtu.be

Thought not.  ;)

Interesting how the President of Motus cites Moto Guzzi as an example of what they are trying to make.  A bike with character.  "On paper, it doesn't do anything better than any other bike, but...  "

[Arizona Wayne]

Lots of usefull information here............6 gal. tank, 6 spd. tranny, 750W alternator, 500# weight dry, comes w/saddlebags + opt. rack/trunk.  Limited production, so not made to compete w/high volume MCs in price.

[jomcgui]

Cool motor but it needs some sort of cover above the foot pegs area.  A bit messy looking there from the pictures.  Pricewise I'de say between a loaded multistrada or close to one of the sporty BMW bikes 20-25K.

[Don Ivey]

I've mentioned this before, but again, I think Lee Conn is related to Sydney Conn, a longtime Moto Guzzi owner/rider who used to be on one of the Moto Guzzi lists before Wildguzzi.  Sydney was involved in taking a Guzzi to Bonneville, and other places, and trying to set a land speed record.  Before the Guzzi connection, I knew Sydney as an Alfisti, he owning a beautiful Montreal, among others.  Hopefully, some of the older Guzzisti will remember Sydney, and make the connection. 

Don Ivey
'83 1000SP

[twhitaker]

I've mentioned this before, but again, I think Lee Conn is related to Sydney Conn, a longtime Moto Guzzi owner/rider who used to be on one of the Moto Guzzi lists before Wildguzzi.  Sydney was involved in taking a Guzzi to Bonneville, and other places, and trying to set a land speed record.  Before the Guzzi connection, I knew Sydney as an Alfisti, he owning a beautiful Montreal, among others.  Hopefully, some of the older Guzzisti will remember Sydney, and make the connection. 

Don Ivey
'83 1000SP

Team Cooked Goose. Sydney was at the MGNA Open House in NC in '02. Got a couple tee shirts with their records on them.

[kirb]

The comments here have already be duplicated elsewhere, but the video link above tells it all-
Keep the production team low (assembly only), outsource all the expensive bits (a little more $$ per), put out two trim levels, stick to your game plan and sell some bikes. Be considered lucky to own one which helps with the low production/high price. The flowchart idea of the bike is ideal- save weight, improve reliability, improve comfort...any of those are required to get the part on the bike.

They picked chain drive- cheap, light, proven, able to adjust FD ratios, don't suck up a bunch of R&D dollars making one
They picked V-4 pushrod- cheap to make and maintain, proven design with limited RPM due to GDI (if they go with GDI) and valve train.
There is no replacement for displacement
They flushed out what makes a good street/tour bike before they built it. I think they nailed it on the first go.

My HOPE is that the bike comes in at $25k/$28k for the base and R models. I'd be looking at clearing out the garage for that price. I fear that the base model will be just shy of $30k in which I will be standing on the sidelines watching.

This venture is NOTHING like Excelsior Henderson (of which I own one). The hanlons were typical 90's venture capitalists...put out a buisiness model in a biz with lots of room for growth, get investors with the ROI and roll out plan, Leave no plan for downsizing or economy flux as it screws with ROI and you will lose investors, skim lots of cash off the top to make sure you are set for life, and hope your plan takes off (rare). The Super X was a good first run at HD. in 2000 it had a better motor and a shot at more, but they failed. Why? They had to build a factory to produce LOTS of machines per year to prove the ROI, so they blew a ton of cash before they even had bikes in the customer's hands. 100+ million down the tubes for less than 2000 bikes. I picked mine up new in crate 10 years later for a song (it cost over $50k to build). It's a cool conversation bike and it has about the same people who know about it as Motus does now.

Motus is doing things correctly. Roll out limited production bikes to people with deep pockets and use social media to gain interest with the rest. While doing durability testing, bring the bike to unique dealers that cater to these brands (mostly ducati, aprillia, Guzzi, and the like). The bike uses lots of GM parts, so you should be able to use a phone based service system that any dealer/owner can use to help service the bikes in trouble. The bike has a lot of parts you can pick up at NAPA or maybe air-shipped to you. People who have unique bikes, like Guzzi, accept the fact the dealer network is slim and take the risk of flying home from Montana when your bike is being shipped back. I don't think it is as big of a deal as some would make it out to be. Having access to parts and a service/parts manual would be about as much as most people would need to keep the bike going.

I'm all in if the price is right.

[fotoguzzi]

yep the Excelsior plant is still an empty monolith in Belle Plain MN..

[JJ]

Best quote of the thread:  If they set a high price point for the bike and it sells like hotcakes, good for them, but if it doesn't sell, then what?

If it does not sell - then back to the drawing board! ** BINGO! ** ;D :D ;) :)

[JJ]

yep the Excelsior plant is still an empty monolith in Belle Plain MN..

Back in the day, I bought $2,000 worth of their stock - - Ooooooops!! :) ;) :D ;D

[kevdog3019]

yep the Excelsior plant is still an empty monolith in Belle Plain MN..

Back in the day, I bought $2,000 worth of their stock - - Ooooooops!! :) ;) :D ;D

Yeah JJ, I'm not sure the gov't would bail out a motorcycle company... at least not an upstart.  Just not popular enough or highly union organized.  If they don't survive you lose.  One chance.  Good chance they won't if you look at the numbers.  I sure wish the best for these guys at Motus.

[kirb]

Motus may start off as a novelty, but from what I've seen and heard, I think their aspirations are much grander. Some companies may be content to produce high dollar curiosities(think Confederate Motorcycles), but I don't think the capital and R&D that Motus has spent on this venture is an indication that they are content with being pigeon-holed into a niche market. If I had captured lightning in a bottle and I had the choice of selling 500 units@36k, or 1000 units@16k, I'd go for higher volume/low MSRP, and the why is obvious; slick magazine adds and videos don't really count for squat when it comes to getting alotta people into the showroom, a company's best advertisement is seeing it's product in the real world. Case&point: We were on the fence about the new Mini until we saw one in person and talked to the owner, we bought a Cooper S a coupla weeks later. Industry hype and novelty don't equate to long-term profits, in the end the bike will have to sell itself, and to do so it must be produced in sufficient numbers to keep it continually in the public eye. If they set a high price point for the bike and it sells like hotcakes, good for them, but if it doesn't sell, then what?

The capital cost to make 500 vs 1000 isn't linear. You can't cut the price in half because you make twice as many. Let's say all the bits in the bin+overhead cost $15k, construction $5k, Profit $3k, Dealer profit $2-3k. Double the production and SOME of your parts cost drop, your construction costs drop (maybe), but the infrastructure to make an additional 500 units may add more to overhead than you are willing to take on up front. It may cost MORE per unit to make 1000 than to make 500 depending on how you are set up for construction.

The other factor that people ignore is price, or more the inability to CHANGE the price when the bike comes to market. You can't charge $35k to all the people standing in line and then lower the price to $25k once you get a foot hold. The outrage you will cause isn't worth the hit to the company. Motus has to come out with a price they can live with for a while. Most of the reason they are holding back pricing is that they are not done with R&D, have not passed EPA, and don't have final figures on end unit cost. They have already commented that they will be a low unit production mfg and the owners will have that 'lucky to own one' kind of vibe. Don't expect these bikes to be sitting on the floor getting discounted at years end (like the Super X was).