Self-Driving cars / autos merged threadfest

[oldbike54]

I figured it was because it's not politically correct to ride a motorcycle now, largely due to young riders buying race bikes that pass as street bikes and getting hurt or killed.  Us older guys got into riding when it was still accepted by society.  Maybe the new trend toward smaller, lower powered motorcycles (Ninja 250 and 300, KTM 390, small block Guzzis, Ducati Scrambler, etc.) will help.

 Jim , I believe motorbikes are more accepted today than in the 1960s when most of us started riding .

  Dusty

[willowstreetguzziguy]

I think in this age of "Specialization of Everthing", I no longer see young kids outside playing together as when I was a youngster, especially in the suburbs. Instead they are "Left to their own devices" inside the house or are hauled off to an "organized" sport.

I think all of this has created a generation of young adults who do not 1.) Appreciate the out of doors,  2.) Are "Less Individualistic", 3.) Less likely to take chances with a perceived "High Risk" sport, of which none of there friends are participating!

[Triple Jim]

Jim , I believe motorbikes are more accepted today than in the 1960s when most of us started riding .

You're probably right, but it doesn't seem that way to me.  The mention of riding a motorcycle today often brings up very negative reactions, and tales of death and injury.  Maybe it happened when we were young, but we didn't pay attention to it.  Of course it could also be because I didn't get into riding until 1978, and it was more accepted then than it was in the '60s.

[Kev m]

Interesting topic and responses.

Didn't motorcycling in the US peak (in numbers) not in the 70's but in the 90's or 00's? And it was population/generation driven.

As for acceptance today, I've observed (with friends) a general decrease in interest of cars and trucks and bikes among the younger generations. So far I've seen this in my own kids, in my friend's kids, and my younger wife's even younger siblings.

I know it's not universal, but there's a trend towards green, mass transit, bicycles, cars as a reluctant tool, not a toy.

I think smaller, cheaper, more efficient COULD be a trend that sets the tone for the industry. The exception being the old guard that doesn't give a F and wants bigger or faster cause economy and efficiency doesn't matter.

But that old guard makes up the lion's share of the market, so it's still anyone's game. But I'm hoping the trend reverses and the smaller, lighter, more efficient start to win out. Because the performance of the mid level stuff has beaten what was available decades ago and the top dog stuff is just ridiculous.

[oldbike54]

You're probably right, but it doesn't seem that way to me.  The mention of riding a motorcycle today often brings up very negative reactions, and tales of death and injury.  Maybe it happened when we were young, but we didn't pay attention to it.  Of course it could also be because I didn't get into riding until 1978, and it was more accepted then than it was in the '60s.

 Yeah , Honda's "You meet the nicest people ..." campaign was beginning to affect even the non motorcycling public by then . Oddly enough , I rarely hear horror stories re motorcycling these days , but then Oklahoma seems to either be way behind or way ahead of the other states , sometimes hard to figure out which 

  Dusty

[elvisboy77]

I saw the beloved Suzuki Burgman 650 scooter go from $6,300 in '03 to $11,000 in '15. They really know how to sticker shock.

Picked up my '15 V7 Stone as one of the last 5-speeds in existence (discounted & free first service) plus the two guys that run our Piaggio Group line store don't try to push like the corporate store that bought up all the dealerships.

Insurance is way high nowadays even for no accidents or tickets so do the MSF course for a 10% reduction in rates.

Camera intersections in Tucson keep me away from those neighborhoods - sneaky turn lane arrows and ripoff politics - I want out of this little town, for my own safety.
If a gun goes off the cops are there right away but the 130 decibel thumpers that wake me up 70 times a night - who cares. I got sick 'n tired of junk plastic Japanese bikes and junk Tucson streets and junk politicians so I bought the Guzzi just to thumb my nose at the same old ripoffs all over this little sht town.
It turns out I did good because the Guzzi has been turning heads all over.

My apartment contract is up in a few months and I'm going to point the Guzzi to the Entrance Ramp and try to forget that I lived here for so long.

Boy turning to the on ramp and taking off sounds so good!

[alanp]

Interesting topic and responses.

Didn't motorcycling in the US peak (in numbers) not in the 70's but in the 90's or 00's? And it was population/generation driven.

As for acceptance today, I've observed (with friends) a general decrease in interest of cars and trucks and bikes among the younger generations. So far I've seen this in my own kids, in my friend's kids, and my younger wife's even younger siblings.

I know it's not universal, but there's a trend towards green, mass transit, bicycles, cars as a reluctant tool, not a toy.

I think smaller, cheaper, more efficient COULD be a trend that sets the tone for the industry. The exception being the old guard that doesn't give a F and wants bigger or faster cause economy and efficiency doesn't matter.

But that old guard makes up the lion's share of the market, so it's still anyone's game. But I'm hoping the trend reverses and the smaller, lighter, more efficient start to win out. Because the performance of the mid level stuff has beaten what was available decades ago and the top dog stuff is just ridiculous.

Well said Kev.  I definitely see those trends in younger folks and would like to see more emphasis on smaller bikes.  I think a lot could be done with 500 - 800 cc engine platforms if there was increased demand.  But I still see a heavy leaning toward BIG HD cruisers as the mass market focus right now.  But those are mostly 50+ aged riders. However, with cars, I see a trend toward 4 cyl. Engines, even in larger cars and SUVs, so maybe that trend will start to carry over to bikes. 

[dubtac]

I got my Guzzi at 18 years young I am 26 now, I will never forget thinking how cheap the Full Coverage insurance was. I asked Mrs. Ruth why it was cheap to insure a bike, and I quote " Progressive does not expect me to live past 6 months.". I bought my bike myself, so I can imagine why bikes are so taboo they are so much more dangerous then a cage, so that is the safety factor. Bikes are cheaper means of transportation so Moose Knuckle thinks you are cheap.

[Triple Jim]

As for acceptance today, I've observed (with friends) a general decrease in interest of cars and trucks and bikes among the younger generations. So far I've seen this in my own kids, in my friend's kids, and my younger wife's even younger siblings.

I know it's not universal, but there's a trend towards green, mass transit, bicycles, cars as a reluctant tool, not a toy.

There's also a trend toward spending all your time thumb-typing instead of doing anything in the real world.

[Farmer Dan]

Only three kinds of riders around here.  Mid 50's on an Eldorado, Greasy and needs a bath on a HD, and young drug dealers on crotch rockets.  I hate living in this part of the state.

[Testarossa]

I've observed (with friends) a general decrease in interest of cars and trucks and bikes among the younger generations.

Kev M is dead on here. My daughter's friends are entirely uninterested in motor sports. They do like their adrenalin thrills but get them skiing, rock climbing, kayaking, mountain biking. Their at-home time is absorbed in music, video and social media rather than tinkering in the garage.

In our adolescence, competence with tools and mastery of horsepower were part of the passage to manhood. Maybe it's just my neck of the woods, but the culture seems to have outgrown that obsession. It may have something to do with the change in dating rituals. Kids travel and party in packs rather than doing the the pair-dating thing. They can hang out via handhelds instead of downtown. There may be more casual sex, earlier, because that seems to be part of the larger culture, but it's hard to prove and the impression may come from the openness about it. I think that if I'd been getting laid regularly at 17 I might not have felt quite so compelled to find my thrills on motorbikes.

[canuguzzi]

Depends on where you are and when you look. Many younger people are still getting and riding motorcycles but use them differently; they are a choice for commuters. These commuter riders are a Mon-Fri crowd hitting the streetsnin the mornings and then again in the afternoon to go home where the bike gets parked.

Many of these young riders aren't the weekend rider types, they have other interests.

I've stopped riding on most weekends because I prefer the weekdays when the traffic is less. I've noticed quite a few riders of mature age riding then too. The cafes aren't crowded, there are far fewer sleds on the road and the riding time much more enjoyable.

It also depends on what you're looking for. There is a reason the HD dealerships are open 7 days a week and it isn't because there are fewer customers.

Just because you might not see a lot of motorcycles on the road doesn't mean they aren't there, they just aren't riding when you're riding.

[redrider]

"In our adolescence, competence with tools and mastery of horsepower were part of the passage to manhood"

Good observation.  Video game consoles and youtube provide education now. How bad is it? The local Honda dealer has the bikes in the back, ATV's and generators by the door. I do see a wider acceptance of motorcycles with the female student enrollments but even they just putt around like a flock of timid goslings waiting to be told what to do. Up to speed? As long as it stays in 2nd gear and low rpm. The males are getting to the same point, slowly. The average bike sees 4000 miles a year.

[Gliderjohn]

It seems to me that I am seeing quite a few more young people on scooters than in the past. Also I worked with high school students until I retired last May and I am amazed how many put off obtaining a drivers license. I also think social media has made difference as kids don't need a car now to have out of ear shot of parents communications. The kids that are or aspire to be gear heads of some sort are now kind of look down upon by peers. The world is a changing as usual.
GliderJohn

[Rough Edge racing]

 To be honest I really don't pay that much attention to what others are riding unless it's something old or unusual. But I can't fail to notice the  majority of what I don't pay attention to are Harleys...

[Bonafide Bob]

Jim , I believe motorbikes are more accepted today than in the 1960s when most of us started riding .

  Dusty

  That is certainly how I see it.
Bob

[Aaron D.]

Lots of bikes everywhere. Lots of American style bikes, followed by adventure BMW types and Gold Wings.

In urban areas we have scooters and older Japanese bikes modded into cafe or street bikes, very nice.

[Dilliw]

The "next generation" around here, those in the late 30s to early 40's, seem to like the resto and cafe looks.  Lots of mid 70's Japanese bikes  of small cc being used for bike nights, commutes, and day rides.   They don't tend to ride far or do the camping thing.  A lot of them often talk to me about the V7.

[Chuck in Indiana]

In general, I don't see many "gearhead" kids like I used to. Manufacturers are having problems finding skilled tradesmen, mechanics, etc. These are the guys (and girls) that ride motorcycles. We are in the midst of a "computer revolution" every bit as big as the "mechanical revolution" of the last century. Most kids now grow up with a computer in their hand..

[Markcarovilli]

In general, I don't see many "gearhead" kids like I used to. Manufacturers are having problems finding skilled tradesmen, mechanics, etc. These are the guys (and girls) that ride motorcycles. We are in the midst of a "computer revolution" every bit as big as the "mechanical revolution" of the last century. Most kids now grow up with a computer in their hand..

Chuck - that about sums it up.  It is now more about what you know and can do with computers than cars, bikes, etc.....

Mark

[bacongrease]

 Marketing...Marketi ng.

  What I see on the road, 85% HD and 10% clones, 5% Wings.
Rare sighting of any other brand.   

Marketing.

[Two Checks]

Whippersnappers don't have the ca$h it takes to buy a new bike today. Bikes are harder to workon and you need the diagnostic tools to service them proerly. And kids don't work on thing mechanical because they can't work on cars like we used to.
Yeah, they can chip their car's ECU but anything more it takes $. And the car must still pass emissions.

And motorcycling on the street is not a sport.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

In general, I don't see many "gearhead" kids like I used to. Manufacturers are having problems finding skilled tradesmen, mechanics, etc. These are the guys (and girls) that ride motorcycles. We are in the midst of a "computer revolution" every bit as big as the "mechanical revolution" of the last century. Most kids now grow up with a computer in their hand..

I noticed this growing up: those of us who had fathers that were "blue collar" and built things (as a profession and/or hobby) tended to be gear-heads and rode motorcycles. The guys in my class who had "white collar" fathers tended to be totally disinterested in cars or motorcycles (but oddly enough were given some of the best cars by their parents).

In general, with fewer parents working manufacturing jobs now, it's no surprise to me that there are fewer gear-head "kids".

Whippersnappers don't have the ca$h it takes to buy a new bike today. Bikes are harder to workon and you need the diagnostic tools to service them proerly. And kids don't work on thing mechanical because they can't work on cars like we used to.
Yeah, they can chip their car's ECU but anything more it takes $. And the car must still pass emissions.

And motorcycling on the street is not a sport.

Did any of us buy new motorcycles to start out? I sure as heck didn't - all of mine were built up from old junkers found in barns, sheds, etc. No reason why a kid today couldn't do the same, except that they don't want to.

"Motorcycling on the street is not a sport"? Huh? I guess it depends on how you do it... 

[Lannis]

Like all of us, I've changed a lot since I started riding 45 years ago.

So any observations I may have about "what's happened to motorcycling" would NOT be the Lannis of 1970 comparing apples-to-apples with the Lannis of 2015 about motorcycling, but the Lannis of 2015 trying to look back to a world that he THINKS he remembers but is colored by 45 years of experience ....

I do know that when I was young, the occasional Harley Big Twin was a rare, exotic beast at $2,200 a pop.    Us young guys ALL rode Yamaha twins, Honda CBs, and the rare Yamaha XS twins.

Today, the most common bike on the road is the big pack of identical Harley Big Twins at $17,000 + a pop, ridden by guys for which that represents 4 months wages ... something you NEVER saw back then.   

And I never talked back then to anyone on a big Harley ...  but it's different from the ones now.

Lannis

[Lannis]

And motorcycling on the street is not a sport.

Have to disagree with you there.   To me, it's like hiking, or kayaking, or mountain climbing, or scuba diving.   

You have special equipment to do it, it takes some amount of commitment and discomfort, and you have to work to be good at it.

The big ADVANTAGE is that you can combine your "sport" with things you have to do ANYway, like get from place to place.   There isn't much opportunity for that when canoeing or scuba diving - it's 100% added extra expense, where the sport of motorcycling can substitute for the expense of a car going back and forth to work, say ....

Lannis

[oldbike54]

And motorcycling on the street is not a sport

.

 You haven't ever ridden with me 

  Dusty

[Tobit]

What seems to be the trend in motorcycling in your neck of the wood? Living in South Central Penna., I see a ton of Harleys everywhere I go and  �Ricky Racers�.  Also see some Gold Wings and a few Adventure bikes.

I�m into sport touring with my Guzzi 1200 Sport and BMW K75S but that seems to be dropping in popularity.

What do you see gaining or losing in popularity and what is the reasoning behind it?  Is there anything cycle manufacturers can produce or do to bring back the masses like in the 1970�s? I believe the average age is going up with fewer young riders taking up the sport. 

I drive past the local Honda dealer and they have rows of ATV�s lining their lot but hardly any motorcycles. What�s happening and why?

Seems like you have a good cross section of bike types and riders.  As far as ATVs, you have to look at what's happened to dirt biking in general.  Land closure primarily, cost second IMO.  When I was in my teens in the '70s, anyone could afford a dual purpose bike and we all had Yammie DTs, Honda SLs, even Hodakas and they cost a couple of hundred bucks used.  We ran the snot out of them in the open (now closed) desert in El Paso and the jungles of Panama.  We moved a lot.

The older guys out of school and with jobs ran the CZs, Maicos, Rickmans, Bultacos and Montesas, but generally they weren't dual purpose, more MX or desert bikes.

The last real dirt bike I bought was a 1980 KDX250, brand new, out the door for $800.  Look around today.  $7,000 dirt bikes and no where to ride them without trucking way out to where you hope no one will notice you on their property?

As far as ATVs, plain and simple, they take less skill to operate than a two-wheeler and you can carry stuff for hunting, farming, or just an ice-chest full of beer when going mudding with your other two-wheel-averse buddies.  Anyone can ride one so they're everywhere, and most times, everywhere they shouldn't be.  I wonder how many are sold that end up just doing wheelies down the street.

In high school, again back in the '70s, most students who didn't ride the bus rode motorcycles.  They out-numbered cars by a large margin.  Except for the surfer dudes in their Toyota pickups or Datsun 510s with boards lashed on.

What's happened to motorcycling?  It's evolving like we are.  In my 20's and 30's I rode absolutely everywhere I went.  Then came family.  Today I drop my kids off and pick them up at school.  Every time I go somewhere I have at least one or two people with me.  Motorcycling has become an occasional passion where it once was part of my identity.

YMMV, mine sure does!

Tobit

[Two Checks]

If motorcycling on the street is a sport then so is driving a bus. And if you feel it's a sport then you have the wrong attitude towards it. Offroad, I agree, but not on the street.

When we started riding $500 bought a lot of bike. $500 will buy you a non running no title pile of rust today.

[LaMojo]

Interesting question - I have to say I have never worried about who is buying what and why, so I ride Guzzi, not the bigger brands.  To each their own.

I have to say, based on the number of three wheelers I see there may be an aging in the demographic
!

 :1:

The local Harley dealer is now selling 4 wheel hunting buggies along with bikes.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If motorcycling on the street is a sport then so is driving a bus. And if you feel it's a sport then you have the wrong attitude towards it. Offroad, I agree, but not on the street.

When we started riding $500 bought a lot of bike. $500 will buy you a non running no title pile of rust today.

sport
sp�rt
noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Okay, so I'm not competing against anyone, but the first part is certainly true. Do you always compete against someone when riding offroad? I doubt it. So, then offroad riding is often not a sport as well. "Wrong attitude towards it"? One of has it (and it ain't me). So, street riding is just transportation is what you're saying? Not for me. 

$500 will buy a non-rusted Ducati Paso with title (been there, done that). Still lots of cheaper, small Japanese bikes available.