2004 Ballabio FS many questions Photos uploaded

[80CX100]

In my continuing quest to get a solid, well engineered road bike, with a comfortable, more upright ergos for my neck/back disc/pinched nerve issue,,, I have located what seems to be a reasonable deal asking (3700 Canadian) on a 2004 Ballabio (in grey the slow color,lol) with apparently only 20K kms. The bike is for sale at a big city dealer 250 miles from me,,, I've spoken to him,,, he knows very little about the bike, and efforts to speak to the previous owner seem futile.

Dealer has sent me some poor photos,,, I've asked for more in detail to show some of my concerns as below.(sorry I don't have photo posting capabilities on here for reference).

The good,,, bike was apparently owned by one single owner enthusiast,,, did some work to make it more cafe style,,, from the photos,,, looks like the rear suspension has been upgraded to Ohlins,,, big k&n pods,,, valve cover guards in place,,,, the front brake calipers appear to be the stock gold colored brembos, but there are some different type of upraded? front brake rotors,,, solid rotors in place of the original drilled discs,,, and the disc supports are not stock,, they are red, solid angular and shaped like 6 straight angled arms in a star shape? ringing bells for anybody?

The bad,,, the stock air box, seat cover, side covers, front fender and original fairing/headlight assembly are missing,aaarrrgghhhh,,,, paint on the tank,, may be wrinkled from the ethanol gas(apparently well known issue),,,, the more upright comfortable stock bars seem to have been replaced with lower euro bars,,, arrgghhh,,,,,, with the pieces changed in the front end,,, bars, rotors, fairing,fender, headlight bucket etc,,(the forks look stock to me,, but I can't tell?), I'm a little worried that it may have had a previous front end collison,,, the dealer knows none of the history,,, just that it runs good and is in great shape,,, aren't they all,,,lol..

The dealer says it's an aftermarket exhaust,,, but couldn't find a name on it,, looks stock to me on the pictures,,, tires look like sticky road rubber in good shape, tbd.

Questions,,, I've read that these bikes could require a Roper sloppage plate,,, is that verifiable from the exterior or do you have to drop the pan to confirm if it's been done or not?

Is this engine one that may possibly have the wild card hydraulic valve issue to deal with?

I keep reading about the issue of the shift pawl return spring,,, if that issue rears up,, how difficult a job is it to do,,, does the tranny have to come out,, or can you replace it with the tranny in the bike?

If lower euro bars have been mounted,,, and hopefully the stock length cables left in place,,, should there be enough slack to fit a reasonably comfortable bar/risers to make a more comfortable ergo riding position? If so? any bar recommendations out there?

I've read of the single plate clutch issues on the spine frames,,, what type of clutch should be in the 2004 Ballabio? good/bad?

I appreciate any and all info & comments you care to share on this bike or recommendations/cautions in general,,, I'll share where I am currently to give you some context and perspective.

I had requested info previously on a mint 2008 Breva Sport (tks to all who responded),,, I wanted that Breva so bad,,, I could cry,,, but in good conscience,,, I couldn't invest cash,heart,soul, time and hardwork into a beautiful machine,,, that could possibly fall victim to a fatal digital dash problem, that I couldn't work around, and fix, it was a heartbreaker passing on her.

I picked up a 2002 Suzuki DL1000 very cheap, that needed a lot of work,,,it was hard for me to work on a bike that I didn't love,,,took me almost 3 mths,,, but I got it running and rolling sweetly,,, did manage to put a little bit of soul into it, with a deal on a nice set of staintunes,,, goes like stink,,, I can't envision myself ever needing more power than this,,, handles reasonably well,,, but the love just ain't there.

In the meantime,,, I paid wayyy too much, when an opportunity came up on a 79 G5 V1000,, I've never seen one for sale in Canada,,, I think it was probably a former police bike from the states,,, from the appearance of dash and saddle bags,,, she's in rough, tired shape,, and needs a lot of work and love,,, and will be my ultimate comfortable ride at some point,,, but with the high insurance rates for vintage bikes up here,,, I'm not moving real quick right now,,, and my job lists are calling,,,lol.

I've spent most of my time on the Suzuki boards lately, keeping my DR650 going, and rebuilding the DL1000,,, but I still lurk on occasion,,, glad to see everyone is as jovial,welcoming, intelligent,vocal, and cantankerous as usual. Just like being home  lol

Nice to see that Pete's well of razor edged, sharp tongued,acerbic wit,,, isn't drying up anytime soon.lol 

So I'm curious what the learned folk on here think about this 2004 Ballabio,,, I hate not being able to talk to the previous owner,,,with the front end bits missing,, I'm thinking, probably a previous front end collision,,, but is that just something to be mindful of or a potential fatal flaw?   

thanks in advance, ride safe and take care

Kelly

[Tom]

Pix would help.  Chuck has a Ballabio.  The gold Ohlin suspension is a bonus and Brembo brakes were oem. IIRC.

[Kiwi_Roy]

You can tell if it's got a Roper plate, thin stainless plate sandwiched between two gaskets at the upper sump joint
No. it's not absolutely necessary but a good idea, Scud has a couple available right now on VIILemans

Shift return spring can be changed on the side of road although I have never done one, I carry a spare as insurance.

[80CX100]

I attempted to add a new reply with photos,,, and somehow in the confusion ,,, I think I've added the photos to my original posting,,, I guess I'll know if I was successful,, when I back out of here and come in by the front door,,,lol.

ps,,, I'd still like any any info you'd care to share,,, especially re the front end and brakes,,, but it's all but a signed deal at this point,,, in the mean time,, I recieved a very thoughtful and informative pm from kiwiroy,,, as a result of his reassurance,,, I just made a verbal deal on the phone for the bike,,, she's not in the garage yet,, but soon.

thanks in advance

Kelly

[80CX100]

Pix would help.  Chuck has a Ballabio.  The gold Ohlin suspension is a bonus and Brembo brakes were oem. IIRC.

Hey Tom, Tks for the reply,,, I've added photos to my original post,,, you can see the rear shock, does look like it is indeed an Ohlins,,,
 The front Calipers do look like the original gold Brembos,,, but as you can see the solid rotors and red mounts aren't,,,, very curious what they are?

tks

Kelly

[rocker59]

Pix would help.  Chuck has a Ballabio.  The gold Ohlin suspension is a bonus and Brembo brakes were oem. IIRC.

Ballabio has Marzzocchi forks

[rocker59]

OK.  Here's my take on this bike...

I like to keep the airbox because I ride in all weather.  The missing airbox would concern me, and I'd want to make sure it's tuned correctly to run without it.  Tuning the V11s can be a pain in the arse.

The missing fairing and fender make me wonder if the bike was wrecked.  I'd be concerned.  Replacing them with factory items will be a snipe hunt.  If there is any chance the bike has been wrecked, don't mess with it.  The spine frame bikes don't survive crashes well, so there may be some hidden damage.

What makes the Ballabio a Ballabio is mainly the high bars.  If you're looking for a bike with high bars for your back, why would you consider a bike with low bars and missing OEM parts?

I don't know that the bike has an Ohlins rear shock.  Ohlins springs are yellow.  The reservoir should be clearly marked, if you have a left-side photo.

You can buy good, complete examples of these bikes for a $500 to $1000 more.  If I was looking for a nice Ballabio, I'd pass this one by.  If I was looking for a bike to modify into something else (like a Ghezzi + Brian Monza), this would be a good candidate.

[80CX100]

You can tell if it's got a Roper plate, thin stainless plate sandwiched between two gaskets at the upper sump joint
No. it's not absolutely necessary but a good idea, Scud has a couple available right now on VIILemans

Shift return spring can be changed on the side of road although I have never done one, I carry a spare as insurance.

Hey Roy Tks for the reply, and the pm,,, as I mentioned, I made the deal for her on the phone.

     I'll take a good look at when I get up close to her, check for the Roper plate,,, and if it ends up I feel I need one,, I'll definitely check that out on V11Lemans.

     Tks for the info re the shift return spring,,, that's the type of easier jobs, I like to here about,lol.

     tks very much

     Kelly

[80CX100]

Ballabio has Marzzocchi forks

do these look like the stock forks,,, or do they look like they've been swapped?

[rocker59]

Based on the right-side photo, I do not see a Roper Plate between the block and the sump spacer.

The bikes really should have a Roper Plate, due to the design of the oil pick up, if spirited riding of any kind in planned.

[rocker59]

do these look like the stock forks,,, or do they look like they've been swapped?

They appear to be the OEM Marzzocchi forks.  No way to tell if they're replacements, though.

Brake calipers are stock.  The Berringer rotors are not.

[80CX100]

OK.  Here's my take on this bike...

I like to keep the airbox because I ride in all weather.  The missing airbox would concern me, and I'd want to make sure it's tuned correctly to run without it.  Tuning the V11s can be a pain in the arse.

The missing fairing and fender make me wonder if the bike was wrecked.  I'd be concerned.  Replacing them with factory items will be a snipe hunt.  If there is any chance the bike has been wrecked, don't mess with it.  The spine frame bikes don't survive crashes well, so there may be some hidden damage.

What makes the Ballabio a Ballabio is mainly the high bars.  If you're looking for a bike with high bars for your back, why would you consider a bike with low bars and missing OEM parts?

I don't know that the bike has an Ohlins rear shock.  Ohlins springs are yellow.  The reservoir should be clearly marked, if you have a left-side photo.

You can buy good, complete examples of these bikes for a $500 to $1000 more.  If I was looking for a nice Ballabio, I'd pass this one by.  If I was looking for a bike to modify into something else (like a Ghezzi + Brian Monza), this would be a good candidate.

Tks for taking the time to reply, appreciate your thoughts and input

Before I saw photos of the bike,,, the dealer told me that he read Ohlins from the shock,,, I'll make sure I get a photo from the left side to confirm,,, I recognized the blue and gold color as similar to the Ohlins,,, I didn't realize they came with yellow springs,,, these definitely look white.

I hear you on the air box/pods and fueling maps,,, being finicky,,, dealing with that issue trying to smooth out my DL1000.

Deals/opportunities on bikes like this may come by regularly in your area,,, up here in Canada (Kinburn Ont, just outside Ottawa) they're a rare breed. Another set of higher bars would be much easier to find than another bike.

I agree with you,,, that when I saw the front end changes,,, my spidey senses said "crashed bike, walk away",,, when I voiced those concerns to the dealer,,, he advised me the changes were all upgrades made by the owner to improve the bike,,,, that's why I would love to know more about the front rotors,,, if they are indeed an upgrade,, might make sense,,, but if they are a generic commonly available cheaper replacement just to get it saleable,,, that's a different story.

I will make sure to speak to the previous owner, hopefully add some clarity to the whole mix

tks very much

Kelly

[rocker59]

The rotors are Berringer.

http://www.beringer-brakes.com/en/moto/technologies/discs-range-6.htm

[80CX100]

The rotors are Berringer.

http://www.beringer-brakes.com/en/moto/technologies/discs-range-6.htm

Tks for that,,, definitely a match,,, from what I've been able to read,,,, something that would make sense,,, only if you needed to replace the originals due to a crash,,, but I haven't read anything that would make it a logical upgrade,,, due to the expense,,, and no major improvement.

Appreciate the feedback from you and everyone else,,, starting to look more and more like a rebuilt front end,,,hhmmmm.

I'm still interested in it,,,, but if I get talking to the previous owner,,, he'll have to come up with some reassuring information before I commit to driving 2-3 hrs to look at it,

tks Kelly

[Kiwi_Roy]

The headlight brackets are not original but they may be an upgrade
The mufflers are Mistral, the best sounding IMHO
Look at the gauges carefully, the needles should have faded to the same shade of red, a bright speedo could mean a replacement
Although there are parts missing I paid more for mine that had been written off, no regrets here.

[Tom]

The fenders were taken off too.

[mjptexas]

I didn't realize Ballabios came in a color other than red.

[LowRyter]

it's not unusual to see the airbox replaced with pod filters.  I agree with Rocker that the bike should've been tuned for that.   A ride will tell you if it's dialed in.  If is doesn't surge, jerk, backfire or detonate, it's probably OK.

I can't tell what kind of suspension is on it but I would guess it is stock (non Ohlins model).  That's really not bad IMO, I think the the non Ohlins bikes are great handling machines.

The rotors are aftermarket.  I would price out a replacement fender.

$3500 is ballpark depending on condition and test ride.  That one is worth a little less without the fender.

If the test ride fails, I would walk away.

You might check out   http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/

Ride it.  Get it if you like it and locate a replacement fender.

[brenwin]

I started lusting after one of these about a year ago and an 04 red one appeared at the Vancouver Motorcycle Show which I promptly purchased because of the immaculate shape it was in along with only having 18000 kms on the odometer . It was an impulsive purchase and like the one your looking at I was unable to obtain any history on the bike which is troubling to say the least .
I barely put a 1000 kms on the bike and tranny oil started leaking at the main seal . Luckily , I spotted this before the 60 day drive train warranty expired so I got out of a very expensive repair right out of the gate . However the bike is still at the dealers and the repair won't be completed until the middle of August ! Motor , Tranny and final drive have to come away for the repair , probably a 10 to 12 hour job at least . The reason, probably sitting too long but who really knows ? I'm wondering what else will be found when they get the bike apart .
Going to the V11 site has helped me to no end with lots of help from the guys who are passionate about these bikes . I found a roper plate there which I'm glad I purchased . 
Prices have definitely gone up and I've been told I'd get my money back when and if I sell it . I am considering letting the bike go if the price is right but once back in my garage will probably keep it for the rest of the riding season and put it up for sale in the spring (maybe) , when the market is better .
$3,700 CAN is certainly a reasonable price but after reading what your bike doesn't have I wonder about the availability and cost of the parts . I'll look for you on the other site and hope you check in here from time to time to let us know how you make out . Good luck and welcome to asylum .

[80CX100]

I didn't realize Ballabios came in a color other than red.

I didn't either until I googled it,,, there are a few grey ones out there

[80CX100]

it's not unusual to see the airbox replaced with pod filters.  I agree with Rocker that the bike should've been tuned for that.   A ride will tell you if it's dialed in.  If is doesn't surge, jerk, backfire or detonate, it's probably OK.

I can't tell what kind of suspension is on it but I would guess it is stock (non Ohlins model).  That's really not bad IMO, I think the the non Ohlins bikes are great handling machines.

The rotors are aftermarket.  I would price out a replacement fender.

$3500 is ballpark depending on condition and test ride.  That one is worth a little less without the fender.

If the test ride fails, I would walk away.

You might check out   http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/

Ride it.  Get it if you like it and locate a replacement fender.

I've done the airbox removal and added PODs on other bikes,,, it's not a deal breaker for me,,,

My interest certainly went up a few notches when the dealer said he could read Ohlins on the shock,, and I saw the gold/blue in the photos,,, but I haven't seen a photo yet that I can read Ohlins on it,,, and rocker59 is right,,, they don't seem to come with white springs like this has.

I agree, a test ride should be the proof in the pudding,,, but if I make the trip,,, it's about 3 hrs,, and I have to line up a buddies truck to be able to bring it home if it plays out,,, not just a simple trip to do a test drive.

tks for the reply

Kelly

[80CX100]

I started lusting after one of these about a year ago and an 04 red one appeared at the Vancouver Motorcycle Show which I promptly purchased because of the immaculate shape it was in along with only having 18000 kms on the odometer . It was an impulsive purchase and like the one your looking at I was unable to obtain any history on the bike which is troubling to say the least .
I barely put a 1000 kms on the bike and tranny oil started leaking at the main seal . Luckily , I spotted this before the 60 day drive train warranty expired so I got out of a very expensive repair right out of the gate . However the bike is still at the dealers and the repair won't be completed until the middle of August ! Motor , Tranny and final drive have to come away for the repair , probably a 10 to 12 hour job at least . The reason, probably sitting too long but who really knows ? I'm wondering what else will be found when they get the bike apart .
Going to the V11 site has helped me to no end with lots of help from the guys who are passionate about these bikes . I found a roper plate there which I'm glad I purchased . 
Prices have definitely gone up and I've been told I'd get my money back when and if I sell it . I am considering letting the bike go if the price is right but once back in my garage will probably keep it for the rest of the riding season and put it up for sale in the spring (maybe) , when the market is better .
$3,700 CAN is certainly a reasonable price but after reading what your bike doesn't have I wonder about the availability and cost of the parts . I'll look for you on the other site and hope you check in here from time to time to let us know how you make out . Good luck and welcome to asylum .

Tks for taking the time to reply and provide some sobering thoughts for me to digest,,, I see these bikes,,, and it's hard to resist some of them.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to talk to the owner tomorrow, and get better confirmation re some of the questionable details on the bike.

tks

Kelly

[80CX100]

The headlight brackets are not original but they may be an upgrade
The mufflers are Mistral, the best sounding IMHO
Look at the gauges carefully, the needles should have faded to the same shade of red, a bright speedo could mean a replacement
Although there are parts missing I paid more for mine that had been written off, no regrets here.

Roy, Do the Mistral exhausts have a name stamped on them somewhere, that I could confirm,,,, I couldn't see any markings on them,, and the dealer said he saw nothing,,, but if I told him exactly where to look,,, I'd have more luck getting info from him.

tks

Kelly

[pete roper]

Pod filters, especially on FI bikes achieve nothing apart from screwing with the fueling and wearing the engine out quicker.

The Scura RC owned by Chuck has a bog-stock airbox and filter refitted at my behest when I bought it. Admittedly it has been set up with a PCIII and has a host of other mods installed and tuned by a non-charlatan but that thing goes like ordure off an earth moving implement!

My advice? Run a mile from anything that has been 'Improved' with an aftermarket filter. The stock one is about 1&1/2 times the surface area of a 135 RWHP Tuono. They breathe just fine.

Pete

[WitchCityGuzzi]

It's a shame the flyscreen has been removed. IMO they look very nice.

I have since changed my shock, but the rear shock looks like it might be the original Sachs. If memory serves, the original spring was white. The forks are Marzocchi with rebound only. Not horrible, but not great. The good news is that if you want, there are options.

I have the same intake set up on mine. It required a PowerCommander and mapping and dyno runs. I also have the Race ECU in mine which helped as well. Hopefully that has been done to that one.

The exhausts are not the factory Lafronconi's. Not sure, what those are, but as long as the bike is mapped for them, it should be fine.

I have 70,000+ miles on mine and it has been one of the most reliable bikes I have ever owned. I never had the shifter spring issue, nor the relay issue. Other than replacing the clutch, mine has never been down for anything other than routine maintenance it's entire life.
 
They are an amazing motorcycle. Pretty good at everything. Torquey, quick, relatively light by Guzzi standards. Handles nicely. These bikes did not have the hydro lifters. No worries there.

This is a current picture of mine. Still looks pretty good for an 04 with 70,000+ miles. Note the Roper slop plate. An absolute must IMO.



I can't imagine ever selling the thing. They'll take my Ballabio away when they pry it out of my cold dead hands!   

By the way, the pipes on mine are the Mistral carbon hi-mount. I also have the Mistral x-over and eliminated the pain in the ass front cross over pipe with older style V11 pipes. It goes like a scalded cat. Very nearly the performance of our Griso SE.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Roy, Do the Mistral exhausts have a name stamped on them somewhere, that I could confirm,,,, I couldn't see any markings on them,, and the dealer said he saw nothing,,, but if I told him exactly where to look,,, I'd have more luck getting info from him.  (Update - I see W.C.G has confirmed they are Mistrals)

tks

Kelly

I'm just going by my bike, it has the same cans, I was told by the original owner they are Mistrals, they look nice, sound fantastic and you could never burn yourself on them. Originally they came fitted with a label "For off road use only", a Canadian requirement, I think I can see where this label was on yours, apart from that (just looked) I can't find any markings whatsoever, must have had a stick on label.  (Update - I see WCG has confirmed they are Mistrals)

Then and now


As for the rear shock, my VII Sport came from the factory with a "White Power", is that PC?
It has a white spring like yours.
Oopps WitchCityGuzzi just posted another, isn't that the sexiest beast?  Same mufflers

I had pods on mine for several years, they look great as you can see from above, I even tried adding the velocity stacks which I imagined at the time improved the mid range power
I have a MyECU but I think now with Guzzi Diag you can tweak the original ECU with better maps.
The clocks will fail at some time but Speedhut make a better replacement.

Mines a piece of shit really 90,000 km and lots of warts but I was recently offered a fairly new Breva as a straight swap, I was tempted but not for long.

Congratulations on the new bike, you got a smoking deal.

The nice thing about your bike, you don't have to feel guilty about changing things around a bit.
BTW you are missing the seat cowl also, you really need to track down the original owner, perhaps write a nice letter in the hopes the dealer will pass it on, the original caretaker of mine was only too happy to see the parts he had accumulated go with the bike.