Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: midnite on May 22, 2022, 07:14:39 PM

Title: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 22, 2022, 07:14:39 PM
Yesterday, after a 100 mile ride, I looked my V7ii over, and found what appeared to be an oil leak on the right side, seemingly seeping from the top bolt shown below.  I wiped it down, hoping it was an anomaly, and sure enough, it reappeared after another short ride today. I tried turning it with a hex, and it felt tight: wouldnít budge.

Has anyone seen a Ďventí develop on a small block like this? I assume thereís no easy fix. For context, my V7ii was one of the lucky few with the crankshaft problem, and had the engine replaced 6000 miles ago. Total of just under 17k on the bike at this point.


(https://i.ibb.co/D8TzX35/E9-B5-FDFA-C032-4709-9759-F1-ADC1-A9-E432.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D8TzX35)

(https://i.ibb.co/GVZQpYk/0698-DE5-B-AB4-B-49-F1-B3-EB-57-D1-DD546-C4-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GVZQpYk)
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: ray bear on May 23, 2022, 01:08:31 AM
dont know anything about that model but I would remove the bolt and put thread sealant on it and replace it and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: reidy on May 23, 2022, 01:49:05 AM
dont know anything about that model but I would remove the bolt and put thread sealant on it and replace it and see how it goes.

I to don't know about this model, but I agree with Ray Bear, but as an extra I would see if I could download or borrow a workshop manual. If it calls for sealant on that bolt it would give me extra confidence. If for some reason that bolt is meant to be shorter than the others I would be checking the bolt length in case a to longer bolt was put in a cracked the back of the hole. If that is the case I would get the short bolt, apply sealant and change gearbox oil.

Steve   
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: reidy on May 23, 2022, 02:17:04 AM
I found a manual https://cadrecycle.com/manuals/technical/V7%20II%20ABS.pdf

I would remove the bolt and try and have a look down the hole. If nothing is unusual I would assume the case is porous in that hole and then follow Ray Bears advice.

Steve
 
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on May 23, 2022, 04:53:44 AM
Before using sealer on a bolt that is not mean to seal, I'd pull the bolt then clean out the female threads with some carb cleaner (be careful of the painted surfaces) then reinstall the bolt and keep an eye on it.

I'd also check the engine crankcase breather vent hoses routing for kinks or pinches, for excessive oil level and oil in the air box. 
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Pescatore on May 23, 2022, 06:54:01 AM
+1 on clogged vent.  Check gear box vent as well.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: guzzisteve on May 23, 2022, 09:22:01 AM
What does it mean? If not a clogged vent then the case sealant is leaking by that bolt hole. Gooping up bolt threads won't fix it, only pulling it apart & reapplying the sealant on front case cover. It's a 6 speed so no dry primary gears. 
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 23, 2022, 10:38:58 AM
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, all. Gearbox oil was changed six months ago with 450ml. I checked all breather components last night, and all seem to be working properly (gearbox vent was not clogged). Iíve reviewed the shop manual, and donít see that sealant is called for, which has me concerned that there may be an actual crack in the metal casing somewhere. Though the engine was replaced about 1.5 years ago, I donít think they would have have touched this screw in the process, and itís been there since Luigi installed it circa 2016.

Sounds as though my next step is to remove the offending screw and inspect. Better to warm the block up first before attempting to remove?
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on May 23, 2022, 11:10:10 AM
Unless the fastener had thread locking compound applied from the factory (doubtful) there is no need to heat prior to trying to loosen. Just go easy. If something feel wrong STOP and regroup. I'd feel confident that this bolt will back out relatively easy and dram free as the bike is newer.

GL,

P-14
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 23, 2022, 11:23:50 AM
Thanks, P-14. Iíll give it a go, and will report back.

Matt
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: bigbikerrick on May 23, 2022, 11:44:12 AM
I think Guzzisteve hit the nail on the head ,on this one! ( as usual   :grin:)  :thumb:
Rick.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 23, 2022, 02:04:09 PM
I think Guzzisteve hit the nail on the head ,on this one! ( as usual   :grin:)  :thumb:
Rick.

I was afraid of that! Was hoping to avoid major surgery.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Motormike on May 23, 2022, 06:09:49 PM
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen what is supposed to be a blind thread hole that inadvertently was machined through the inside or end of the casing, causing a leak.  Harley had a few Sportster/Buell primary cases: one of the lower cover bolts would leak oil because the machining had punched though the material on the inside, allowing fluid to weep out around the threads. 
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 23, 2022, 07:29:39 PM
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen what is supposed to be a blind thread hole that inadvertently was machined through the inside or end of the casing, causing a leak.  Harley had a few Sportster/Buell primary cases: one of the lower cover bolts would leak oil because the machining had punched though the material on the inside, allowing fluid to weep out around the threads.
If this is the case, seems odd that itíd take five years and 17k miles to leak though, right? After the ridiculous amount  of time and energy it took to get Piaggio to replace my engine, I was hoping Iíd have a good number of trouble free miles ahead - inspired in part by SmithSwedeís epic tales. I love the bike, but this latest development has me considering trading in on a new V7850.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: normzone on May 23, 2022, 07:42:43 PM
Trading in?

We have differing outlooks.

I'd wear an old boot on that foot, one already oilstained, ride all summer with frequent stops at the carwash.

Maybe fix it in the winter.

But we live in different ends of the state, and have differing outlooks  :azn:
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 23, 2022, 08:45:51 PM
I can appreciate the oily boot perspective: may very well end up leaving well enough alone if the leak doesnít increase over time. Just perturbed that yet another issue has cropped up while Iím still on my first set of brake pads. Iíve yet to do major engine work on a bike, and was hoping to avoid it before needing to replace a clutch. Guess itís an opportunity to learn in the end. :smiley:
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on May 23, 2022, 08:50:58 PM
Whats to lose in gooping up the thread, it can't make it worse and just might make it better.
Isn't it the clutch behind the RH side, where could the oil be coming from, I would have thought it would be a blind hole in the gearbox.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 23, 2022, 10:33:14 PM
Pulled out what appeared to be the offending screw. It backed out easily. Gasket remnants were evident, and I could smell gear oil, which Iím guessing is evidence of a compromised gasket. The screw itself didnít have oil on it, other than small traces, and the hole from whence it came seemed surprisingly clean. I cleaned up the oil around the screw before extraction:
(https://i.ibb.co/1LrkBcJ/04-D1-ABC3-843-A-4-B59-872-B-3242870-DC9-C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1LrkBcJ)

(https://i.ibb.co/mvwB96h/DDF2-A2-C6-FEA5-416-D-8705-252-B17-B6-BEE7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mvwB96h)

I tried to get a good look into the hole/thread, but couldnít see much: tiny hole, and a tough angle. Sheís buttoned back up, and Iíll take her back out soon to see how the leak develops.

Thread goop? Iím game if it wonít cause problems down the road. Have a specific product in mind?

Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Tom H on May 23, 2022, 10:58:33 PM
I looked up the manual for the V7 engine and trans. Best as I can tell the bolt is holding the body of the trans to the front cover of the trans. No leak is good, but from what I see, the oil is not going to get to the clutch from that bolt. If it were me and from the manual, I'd either use some Loctite Thread Sealer or some Permatex #2 or Right Stuff on the threads and be done.

On second thought, I might just use the gasket sealer on the bolt, not the threads and under the washer under the bolt head. Provided the oil is not coming out from the seam between the trans body and front trans cover.

JMHO,
Tom
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: s1120 on May 24, 2022, 06:59:10 AM
I looked up the manual for the V7 engine and trans. Best as I can tell the bolt is holding the body of the trans to the front cover of the trans. No leak is good, but from what I see, the oil is not going to get to the clutch from that bolt. If it were me and from the manual, I'd either use some Loctite Thread Sealer or some Permatex #2 or Right Stuff on the threads and be done.

On second thought, I might just use the gasket sealer on the bolt, not the threads and under the washer under the bolt head. Provided the oil is not coming out from the seam between the trans body and front trans cover.

JMHO,
Tom

Ya Im on board with this also. A little sealer isnt going to really hurt anything. And really if the fix ends up being pulling the trans to reseal it.. and the problem if you don't might be pulling the trans because some oil is on the clutch...  Id really take the odds that a little thread sealer will fix me up fine for the long haul.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 24, 2022, 09:51:32 AM
Thanks again, all. Iíll give the sealant a try.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on May 24, 2022, 10:02:08 AM
Ya Im on board with this also. A little sealer isnt going to really hurt anything. And really if the fix ends up being pulling the trans to reseal it.. and the problem if you don't might be pulling the trans because some oil is on the clutch...  Id really take the odds that a little thread sealer will fix me up fine for the long haul.

But if the leak is not at the bolt sealing the bolt will not correct the leak and make the bolt miserable if you have to remove the bolt to make a repair.

Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: bigbikerrick on May 24, 2022, 02:25:24 PM
I would degrease the bolt, and hole as much as possible, with some carb cleaner spray, then goop up the threads on the bolt with some permatex black RTV silicone. You may get lucky and seal things up without tear down, or at least it may at least minimize the seepage. removing the bolt down the road should be no problem with the RTV.
Good luck
Rick.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Motormike on May 24, 2022, 03:21:41 PM
Or you could just pretend it's an old Harley and let it leak.  :evil:
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: twowheeladdict on May 24, 2022, 05:47:15 PM
Clean it up and trade it in.   :thumb:

Almost everyone who has traded for a V7 850 has had no regrets.   :wink:
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 24, 2022, 07:45:14 PM
Clean it up and trade it in.   :thumb:

Almost everyone who has traded for a V7 850 has had no regrets.   :wink:
Very tempting. Had I not purchased a 21 V85 six months ago, Iíd likely be deep in research and/or negotiations already. The V7ii was my gateway Guzzi, the first, and Iíd hoped to keep it a looooong time.

Think Iíll take it out for another ride or two to see how the situation develops before deciding. May try the RTV. Thanks all for the thoughts and suggestions!
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Dukedesmo on May 25, 2022, 03:29:01 AM


Quote from: bigbikerrick on May 24, 2022, 08:25:24 PM (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=115186.msg1819197#msg1819197)
I would degrease the bolt, and hole as much as possible, with some carb cleaner spray, then goop up the threads on the bolt with some permatex black RTV silicone. You may get lucky and seal things up without tear down, or at least it may at least minimize the seepage. removing the bolt down the road should be no problem with the RTV.
Good luck
Rick.

___________________ ___________________ ___________________

Agreed, got to be worth a try. My favourite is threebond but, ultimately it'll likely need to be split and resealed eventually.
I had similar on the gearbox of my car, seems it was never properly 'gooped' when built and had a slight oil leak from the rear of the gearbox - strange how the dealer didn't point it out until after the warranty expired though.  :rolleyes:
Ultimately it wasn't that big a job and on a bike it's got to be easier (plus if it were me I'd DIY it anyway) so only the cost of the sealant and your time.


Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: Bulldog9 on May 25, 2022, 06:50:21 AM
Very tempting. Had I not purchased a 21 V85 six months ago, Iíd likely be deep in research and/or negotiations already. The V7ii was my gateway Guzzi, the first, and Iíd hoped to keep it a looooong time.

Think Iíll take it out for another ride or two to see how the situation develops before deciding. May try the RTV. Thanks all for the thoughts and suggestions!

Is it dripping or just a weep and creep?

I've always ignored the weep and creep, and spray Balistol or WD-40 on the case and wipe down so it is all shiny and I can't tell  :cool:
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on May 25, 2022, 10:25:47 AM
Is it dripping or just a weep and creep?

I've always ignored the weep and creep, and spray Balistol or WD-40 on the case and wipe down so it is all shiny and I can't tell  :cool:

Itís a weep n creep - for now. Just developed. Hope it stays that way!
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on June 04, 2022, 03:23:24 PM
Reporting back. I considered my options, and decided to try my luck at sealing up the thread with Permatex high temp thread sealant. I cleaned up the fastener and the female threads as best I could, applied a liberal amount of sealant (at least compared to a dab of loctite), and gave it a good week to cure before firing the engine back up. I went for a relatively tame (kept it under 5500 rpm) ride this morning for 30 miles, and the fastener leak is gone. I still have weeping from the gasket itself, but that's been weeping for the past 9000 miles or so. It worked! At least for now. Thanks to all who offered suggestions.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: guzzisteve on June 04, 2022, 03:48:34 PM
" I still have weeping from the gasket itself, but that's been weeping for the past 9000 miles or so"

What does this mean? It leaks on that seam elsewhere?

Glad you gooped up the threads, should fix it.
Title: Re: Well, this canít be good: unsanctioned Guzzi vent?
Post by: midnite on June 04, 2022, 05:04:46 PM
" I still have weeping from the gasket itself, but that's been weeping for the past 9000 miles or so"

What does this mean? It leaks on that seam elsewhere?

Glad you gooped up the threads, should fix it.
Yep: weeps from a portion of the seam, and has for a good three years or so at this point. Nothing serious, but the seal is compromised such that I can see and wipe up a trace amount of gear oil after even a relatively brief ride. The newly developed leak that I was more concerned about was the one pictured in my original post, which was coming from the fastener.