850 Eldorado Police lighting question

[DodgeBoy]

Hello friends,

I am trying to understand some points regarding the original police spot lights (red pursuit lights) and their operation from the riders handbook and its "California police" extension (7 Pages).

Just for clarification I am talking about a 72-74 Eldorado police with:
- police dash
- two Dietz 9-51 front spot lights (red pursuit lights)
- two 2-ways front Dietz turn signals (front amber, rear red)
- two rear Dietz turn signals (red, but dont know if they should be amber ???)

The handbook extension tells me that the police models had a CEV switch at the handlebars right hand side which had more functions than only for the turn signals. Namely for the radio control and to turn the front red lights on/off.





On the police dash at the left side there is a push/pull switch which should operate the "courtesy lights". From the wiring diagram it routes to the front red lights.

My questions are:
What are those courtesy lights?
How would you turn the two red spot lights on a original police bike on? With the r/h CEV or with the push/pull on the dash?

Oh and one additional question please: how do the correct connection terminals on GE 4001R red sealed beams look like? 2 spades or two screws for fork connection?
I have two Dietz 9-51 light buckets with original "use 4001R" bezels and they have spade type plastic connectors in them. But i find GE4001R beam lamps online with screw/fork terminals. I know i can just buy fitting sealed beams but i am curious what has been factory.

Thanks guys!

[fotoguzzi]

Greg Field says the Eldorado was introduced in 1972 so wouldn’t a ‘70 - 71 be an Ambassador?

[DodgeBoy]

Greg Field says the Eldorado was introduced in 1972 so wouldn’t a ‘70 - 71 be an Ambassador?

You are right I allready fixed that. My bad.

[guzzisteve]

Here you go follow the lines, courtesy lies are 4 way flashers I think, may be different for EU

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_wiring_diagrams_-very_large_and_easy_to_read-.html

[DodgeBoy]

Here you go follow the lines, courtesy lies are 4 way flashers I think, may be different for EU

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_wiring_diagrams_-very_large_and_easy_to_read-.html

Thank you for the hint. If i understand that l/h switch (6) is just a breaker for a single courtesy light (50) and has nothing to do with flashers. It is fused with the horn ...





 The fact that the switch as well as the small harness piece has a Guzzi number tells me it was a factory goodie? The only hint i can find is on Gregs site. He mentiones that there is a very very rare map light for Police use. Could that be the mysterious courtesy lamp? So the switch just turned on that small lamp on the left side of the windshield? In the diagramm the c. lamp (50) is positioned up left.





I assume its just a cars dash courtesy light in the picture and Guzzi never offered the lamps themself. The courtesy light harness from the handbook shows no terminal connections so it could be ment to get individually finished with different "map lights"...

[fotoguzzi]

Sure would like to see your bike in 

[testa_di_formaggio]

Different departments may have wired their fleets differently than what Guzzi's schematic shows. And among those departments, they may wire a particular bike differently depending on the preferences of the Officer riding it. Also it might depend on whether or not the bike actually saw Department service, many of the "Police" bikes, could be sold to civilian customers. I've seen some Guzzi Police bikes people have restored or created, which have some glaring improprieties, but for the most part, just about anything is possible on fleet Police bikes. And it wasn't the Guzzi factory that was usually responsible for the variations, rather it was the department that ran them, or the Importer.

That photo you posted from Greg's site, is of my bike. I sure wish the tank decals were that nice now a days, the points of the stars have been starting to peel off with age unfortunately. It was built in September 1973, and is titled as a 1974 model year.

It has an Aprila right hand switch, rather than a CEV. It has has an on/off rocker on the top face of the switch for the electric siren control. Siren on, siren off. The single button on the face of the right side Aprilla switch is supposedly for radio push to talk, with a helmet mounted microphone. From what I was able to figure out, the CHP didn't start helmet mics until much later with the Kawasakis, so that is a bit strange. There is no provision for a mic plug on either of the Motorola radio heads I have, and I've never seen helmet mics used on any of the police Eldos in photographs.

The lower on/off/on rocker on said Aprila switch, normally used for the signals, is not functional. I've never opened it up to see if it's unwired, or if the pigtail is disconnected in the headlight shell. The turn signal function is handled by the left side, which doesn't have a typical CEV snuff box switch. It has one of the commonly used period all metal type switches, (perhaps generic or Yamaha), for horn, running, head lights and the signals. A CHP mechanic told me the CEV switches were such junk, they generally removed them before they even put the bikes in service, and wired in the cluster type switchgear. They didn't want to deal with CEVs later. An interesting aside to the signal wiring, is that there is a small button type switch on the forward end of both floorboards. The same mechanic told me that was an officer preference item, the switches were wired into the turn signal circuit, so you could momentarily operate the right or left turn signal. They could then be activated without using the left side handlebar switch. So one didn't have to worry about inadvertently leaving the signal on. Similar to what is done with urban transit busses. The front signals are amber. I'm pretty sure they are Kawasaki items, Mark and Moe thought the same when they saw the bike at the MGNOC National rally back in 2001. If anyone looking at them on Greg's picture, can confirm their origin, I'd be happy to know. The rear signal lamps are amber as well, Dietz, mounted on a bracket on the back of the metal CHP saddlebags. It also had two small amber running lights, I've seen them on a lot of older Harleys. They were mounted on the same bracket as the rear turn signals, but below them. I took them off the bike, as the screws on one of them backed out and I lost it, and played hell watching at swap meets to find a replacement.

FWIW, in my State at least, forward facing red lights are not allowed on anything other than emergency vehicles. Same with forward or rear facing blue lights. That's according to the State Patrol Major that inspected my bike. He said you can however, have red or amber rear turn signals and running lights.
 
The forward red pursuit lights, as well as the rear blues, mounted on a metal plate just above and either side of the license plate, are controlled by a toggle switch on the dash. Another toggle switch controls the four way flash of the turn signals.

There are two push/pulls on the dash. One is  located on the upper right of the dash, that is for coil disconnect. The other, located on the bottom of the dash, below the speedometer, controls that small hooded light mounted, (literally glued), to the windshield, I was told that it was used for writing tickets at night. Greg calls it a "map light" in in the photo description. That might be what you are seeing referred to as the "courtesy light". I have never seen that light on any other bike in person, or in photos, so I'd take a pretty good guess that light is something mounted by the CHP, and not a factory item. I can't confirm that definitively, and the fact that Greg has produced a pigtail for that setup, someone else must have one. I'd love to find out more about it. Keep in mind, the windshield on my bike wasn't found in Italy from what I can determine. It is a Code 3 windshield, supposedly made for the Kawi KZ 900s that replaced the Guzzis. Once they were available, (I'm pretty sure in 1975), they were retro fitted to the Guzzis by many Departments, as they were referred to as "bulletproof".  You can see them in Guzzi brochures for the Police versions of the T3 and Converts, and I'm sure ZDS installed them on those models for Police sales out West. It's perhaps possible they were supplied for retro fitting the Eldos by ZDS as well.

My bike has Diet 9-51 forward pursuit housings. And the red lamps, have screws to attach the wires. Any of those lamps I have come up with, have that screw type. That's not to say that things have changed over the years.

Good luck with it, and have fun with your bike.

[DodgeBoy]

Sure would like to see your bike in 

I will be happy to share some pictures soon but right now the bike has no heads, dash and saddle on

That photo you posted from Greg's site, is of my bike.

First of all thank you for all the detailed information! To follow up what fotoguzzi said i would really love to see some pictures of your police bike especially from the dash/handlebar and the c. lamp. Maybe we can figure out from what brand or car your courtesy light originally was.
I can see why a lot of departments removed the original CEV switches since they are far from ergonomicaly designed. I for myself cant say that i have had any technical problems or failure with them so far though. Of course i allready was aware of the fact, that there is no THAT ex-police bike and that there are/were so many modifications on them through times.

Nevertheless it would be cool to gather some pictures from some ex-police bikes especially the handlebars with switches to see what kind of switches the used. Most pictures online dont show the handlebars in detail. I know there are the round Aprilia switches but i dont know what exact switch they used. Seems to be the same round one every time?

[testa_di_formaggio]

I can say that the right side switch is this one:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale/switch_police-right-handlebar_late.jpg

The bike is currently buried in my garage, I'll see if I can get at it later in the week to try and score some more detailed pics.