A newb's progress report/valve adjust Q/choppy idle and engine dying at stops

[sstone14]

Hi all,

Long-ish post coming your way.

First of all, a big thank you to everyone who's taken the time to weigh in on my questions and posts so far. It's all been super helpful and valuable, and I really appreciate it.

This has been a milestone week for me re: motorcycle maintenance and riding, and I have a couple questions but also some things I just want to share, so I'm going to divide this post into three sections:

(1) My progress report, which I'm excited to share
(2) My follow up valve adjustment question, after attempting my first (failed) valve adjustment
(3) My choppy idle/engine dying at stops today questions

(1)

This is my first bike, which I've had for a year now and maybe put on 1500 miles (I was the guy with the busted spark plug who rode 25 mi on one cylinder).

Anyways, I replaced the spark plug and cap, and performed my first oil change. I know it's super basic maintenance, but it's the first time I've done it, ever, on any vehicle. And I just want to share how it was so unbelievably satisfying to do, and then have my work immediately reflected in the improved performance of the motorcycle. I know all this is obvious, and this is why we do this, but it's still so new and novel to me, and it just made me feel much closer to the motorcycle, and made me all the more passionate about riding and taking care of the bike and learning to wrench on it myself.

The other thing I did this week was: I don't have a center stand, so I actually used the jack from the trunk of my car to get the rear wheel off the ground by leaning the bike's side stand on a pile of flat rocks to get it close to upright, and then jacking it up underneath the crossbeam at the bottom of the frame (which in itself felt like a victory). And I successfully removed the valve cover on the left cylinder to attempt a valve adjustment. Opening the engine like that was truly humbling and a little bit awe-inspiring. The parts actually looked pretty good for a 12-year-old bike with 15k miles on it. And I wanted to perform the valve adjustment, but ran into this problem:

(2)

I couldn't get the bike in gear to get the valves and cylinder moving to adjust it to TDC. I felt it click into 1st gear, but the wheel locked up and wouldn't rotate (which I'm familiar with from when I'm actually sitting on the bike and it's not running). And I shifted up into what I thought was 3rd, but then the wheel rear wheel spun freely and the valves didn't move. Possibly wasn't actually in gear? I tried letting the clutch out slowly while rotating the wheel to get it to catch, but I couldn't get it. So I ended up taking the bike off the jack and being satisfied with my partial accomplishments of the day.

Does it make sense to kill the engine with the bike in 3rd, knowing you're in 3rd, and then getting the rear wheel off the ground to perform the adjustment? Is it clear to anyone what I was doing wrong?

(3)

Anyways, then I went on a nice ride, and the next day, today, I rode it from Boston to New York City on 95 the whole way.

Towards the end of today's long ride, the idle got particularly choppy at red lights and the engine died on me a couple times in stop and go traffic in the city, though the idle had been pretty smooth before, at the start of the ride, and starting it up again after a handful of rest stops. The choppy idle and engine dying was in Brooklyn, in the heat, after around 250 miles of straight riding on the air-cooled 750 V-Twin, which is definitely very happy on the freeway, but is nevertheless not really designed for touring-style rides like the one I did today to get the bike back to Brooklyn.

The oil measurement was exact and the oil and filter were brand new; both cylinders were firing. I'm just wondering what could the reason be for the idle and engine quitting on me a couple times at stops and rolling at low speeds with the clutch pulled in.



Anyways, thanks again for everything. I'm excited to give the valve adjustment another shot after your input, and would appreciate any feedback you have about the choppy idle and dying engine.

[Dirk_S]

Congrats on bumping your empirical wisdom up a notch. Keep it up, but do mind the torque specs and clearances ;) oh, and take heed that the service manual reads like you’re already a seasoned mechanic, so don’t hesitate to ask questions from those not dumber than us!

Bumping the bike into 3rd— since the bike is stationary, you may have to rotate the rear wheel a little once you kick it into gear to make sure it’s actually in gear and not just floating in neutral. When the wheel rotates freely in both directions, you’re definitely in neutral or between gears.

[guzzisteve]

Nice to see you are excited to be bonding with your bike.
I forgot what it was like in 1968

Put it in 5th gear w/plugs out for easy TDC turning

Set them & throttle bodies you'll be set

[Dirk_S]

PS - I’ve driven from New Hampshire to central PA in the summertime at least once every year since 2017 (~450-500 miles, depending how scenic I want the trip to be). Riding long miles in the heat isn’t as bad as sitting a long time in the heat with the engine running. Sometimes, it’s better to hit those secondary roads in order to keep moving.

[sstone14]

Congrats on bumping your empirical wisdom up a notch. Keep it up, but do mind the torque specs and clearances ;) oh, and take heed that the service manual reads like you’re already a seasoned mechanic, so don’t hesitate to ask questions from those not dumber than us!

Bumping the bike into 3rd— since the bike is stationary, you may have to rotate the rear wheel a little once you kick it into gear to make sure it’s actually in gear and not just floating in neutral. When the wheel rotates freely in both directions, you’re definitely in neutral or between gears.

Okay, this is helpful. So, possible dumb question: if the wheel doesn't rotate freely when it's in gear, how are you supposed to get the valves and cylinder moving? Doesn't the wheel need to be able to rotate for the valves and cylinder to move through their 4-stroke cycle?

[Dirk_S]

Okay, this is helpful. So, possible dumb question: if the wheel doesn't rotate freely when it's in gear, how are you supposed to get the valves and cylinder moving? Doesn't the wheel need to be able to rotate for the valves and cylinder to move through their 4-stroke cycle?

It shouldn’t actually rotate freely (as in, easily). Like, if you had the bike standing on its wheels and put it in gear, it wouldn’t move forward easily—it WILL move forward; you’d just have to use some muscle. Same with the wheel up in the air— when it’s in gear, just use a little more rotational force in those arms of yours. It should move, albeit with some resistance. If it’s actually not moving at all, then…ummm…hmm…

[sstone14]

It shouldn’t actually rotate freely (as in, easily). Like, if you had the bike standing on its wheels and put it in gear, it wouldn’t move forward easily—it WILL move forward; you’d just have to use some muscle. Same with the wheel up in the air— when it’s in gear, just use a little more rotational force in those arms of yours. It should move, albeit with some resistance. If it’s actually not moving at all, then…ummm…hmm…

Got it. Is this true of 1st gear as well?

[Kev m]

Gear ratio means you change the amount of effort necessary to do the same work

Therefore it's a lot harder to spin the motor in 1st than 5th (and our a sliding scale between them).

Of course if you haven't first pulled both spark plugs you're fighting engine compression which makes it worse/harder still.

The engine dying at hot idle could be mechanical. A tight/poorly adjusted/or worn clutch cable could allow an engine to drag against the clutch/braked chassis causing it to stumble, and possibly die. But this is just the first swag.

[tris]

It sounds like you're very new to this and while a valve clearance (lash) check is not hard to do, you do need to understand what you're trying to achieve

Are there any home mechanics in your area that could give you a guiding hand first time?
It doesn't need to be a Guzzi specialist just that they understand push rod engines.
The V8 car guys your side of the Atlantic will have that knowledge I believe?

Apart from that GOOD LUCK





 

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Okay, this is helpful. So, possible dumb question: if the wheel doesn't rotate freely when it's in gear, how are you supposed to get the valves and cylinder moving? Doesn't the wheel need to be able to rotate for the valves and cylinder to move through their 4-stroke cycle?

put it in top gear (5th for you) and take both spark plugs out... you still wont be able to turn it easily/smoothly, you have to kinda bump back and forth to turn it.

And failing to idle when hot can be several things, but I would bet you are going to see tight exhaust valves.  My v65 would die at idle everytime I needed to loosen the valves

[Vagrant]

It's really helpful to tell us what you own so we don't have to guess. Next where do you live? As stated there are a lot of us that would be willing to help you through it the first time.

[fotoguzzi]

The motor stalling when hot is a sign you probably do need a valve adjustment. Like said above..
you must have the spark plugs out to rotate the engine with the rear wheel, it just won’t turn with compression in the cylinders.
Sounds like you have a small block which I’m not too familiar with but on the big block you can also rotate the engine by taking the front cover off and using a Allen (hex key) wrench to turn it while in neutral.
Isn’t there a Guzzi dealer in Brooklyn? . I bet they would give you some guidance if you ask.

[antmanbee]

He has an 2010 V7C