Author Topic: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions  (Read 4196 times)

Online Old Jock

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Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« on: January 09, 2015, 11:15:11 AM »
So I installed a RAM into the Sporti, (I know, I know I'll be putting in a new plate after the first run out) & I now have a complete engine and gearbox, didn't say it will run but it looks nice

Anyway with the RAM in I have a bit of a conundrum, the actuating plunger is sitting recessed into endcase by somewhere around 3.5 mm. I also found these little collars in the RAM box although I'm not 100% they came with the RAM. They would not fit on the pushrod or the nose of the RAM. So I'm buggered if I know what they do but suspect it may be connected with my current problem.

There are 2 collars and the dimensions of them are 10mm diameter 9.5mm length and the hole is approx 5mm

I put the actuating lever on and the gbx into first and using a spacer between the actuating arm adjusted nut and the plunger, to space it pushed on the arm and the clutch disengages, so it works. If it cam to it I suppose I could just get an engineering shop to turn me a bit of stainless to the right diameter and put a nose on it, wouldn't cost the earth.

Anybody come across anything like it?







Any help/comments/abuse??

John

kidneb

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 02:51:20 PM »
I`m having a deja vu on this !

Are you sure it`s a Ram clutch for the 5 spd. box, and not a single plater for the V11 ?


IIRC that was what caused some confusion last time that "too short pushrod" phenomenon  was up here in connection with the RAM?  Just a thought.

 Good luck anyway !

Online Old Jock

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 04:02:50 AM »
Cheers Kidneb

Searching (I was having problems with the search before) it appears to be not unknown. Reading a recent topic on it Baldini stated he had a similar experience and replaced the center button in the spring for another type.

A lot have a problem with the thing not disengaging but (& I'll double check this) mine does seem to engage and disengage fine, the problem is simply length. This RAM has the newer MIBA plate like this

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=3117

I got this from Stein Dinse and according to them its the correct type for the bike

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/Clutch/Single-disk-clutch/Single-disc-clutch-Daytona-Cal-1100-i::137464.html

Need to double check clutch part numbers and pushrod length. If its simply too short I'll contact Stein Dinse and in the worse case scenario, just get a new pushrod made I guess.

Problem with RAM is they do not have a website or provide sufficient info on their product which is frustrating.

John

kidneb

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 11:31:41 AM »
Hi John

I`m sorry that I don`t have a clue as to what is wrong with your RAM setup.
You bought it new from Stein Dinse,- listed to fit your model, but it don`t. Contact them, play the friendly innocent idiot and ask for explanation and advice ! :)
Both the types of the RAM that SD offers is for the 5spd. BB Guzzis. I don`t know what justifies the 173 difference of the two ? Are there some sensors on the flywheel for the inj. ones ? I know nothing about it myself.
But mechanically, both types should fit any 5spd box Guzzi without further mods?
And then,- all the different types of friction plates that have been introduced during the lifetime of the RAM. Why would that be necessary if it wash`t for the fact that the products are of dubious quality ?
When I bought mine, it came with an organic friction material, - much better than the sintered bronze ones of the time. But for some mysterious reasons hidden for me, I have never been able to find this  plate separately.
I don't know about the latest sintered bronze type, the so called MIBA.
Could it be that the MIBA plate is a couple mm thicker than the previous 6mm plates ?
Anyway,- it should not cause you this kind of problems, even if you can solve it by fabricating a longer pushrod.
 It would be interesting to know what`s wrong !

 Cheers  
                 //Ben

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 11:31:41 AM »

Offline Dick

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 11:51:03 AM »
What Ben Say.  :+1

If the newer plates are thicker, without any modification to any other components of the clutch,(by RAM), this could explain the recessed pushrod and plunger assembly. Maybe if the new disc wears, (in typical sintered bronze manner), it will adjust itself in no time at all. ;D  I know,not really the answer your looking for. Maybe a better answer will come along. Good luck.

Online Old Jock

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 12:02:38 PM »
Hi Kidneb kind of you to comment anyway a reply is always appreciated even to stop me feeling lonely  :)

I've sent of a mail to SD with these pics & detail about the whole thing. I'll post up if I get any joy from SD.

The whole clutch thing is a bit of a nightmare. You would have thought that the sporti carb and injection would use an identical clutch, nope.

Guzzi are as guilty as RAM I was trying to make some sense of this a while back here was what I found from parts books

Checking part numbers for the standard 2 plate clutch between 1100 sport carb, 1100 sport injection and Daytona reveals

All 3 have the same intermediate plate
Sport Carb & Daytona have the same friction plates but different pressure plate
Sport injection and Daytona have the same pressure plate but different friction plates

Then on top of that there is the conundrum of flywheel sensors for the injection.......... ...........well guess what (from what I've found anyway) the Sport 1100i does not have a flywheel sensor(s) they have a Phonic wheels on the cam in the timing chest at the front of the bike. As far as I'm aware the only bikes to use a flywheel sensor were those with a P8 ECU some Calis had them and possibly early Daytonas (I have a vague recollection about that).  :beat_horse

So there you have it for now, at least the clutch works getting a new pushrod made would be a dawdle & I'll do it if that's what it takes but in the meantime I'll see what SD have to say about it

Not holding my breath

John

 


Offline Blueboarhound

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 03:25:32 PM »
OJ,

Those Magni head guards are sweeeet! I'm assuming that's the motor from the Sfida?  :drool
1993 Ducati 900SS
1993 Moto Guzzi Daytona 1000
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
2012 Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX

Online Old Jock

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 04:42:06 AM »
Aye that's correct Blueboarhound

Pic of it as it arrived unfortunately the camera flatters to deceive regarding the condition, lots of flaking powdercoat on the frame and paint flaking off the engine. DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE FASTENERS  >:( (Nearly every one frozen or corroded in twas a real nightmare getting them all out)



So the casings were cleaned and treated and all the paint taken off and the surface peened with a weird ball bearing process, that's just a bare Al finish, no paint, nuffin to flake off. Lots of SS fasteners going on (with a Moly antisieze of course), Tank fairing etc has all been redone by a guy who does a lot airbrush stuff (I'd baulk at calling him a painter he is much more than that).

Building it up now very slowly and I have some challenges ahead. Realistically I reckon it will see the black top in summer 2016

John
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 05:39:28 AM by Old Jock »

Offline Stevex

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 07:59:52 AM »
That's a beauty John.

As a matter of interest what level is the clutch plunger meant to sit at?
I've just refitted my gearbox after fitting a lightened flywheel / ring gear, it has new clutch plates and the plunger has a new thrust bearing; the plunger is sitting about 1mm into gearbox.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 08:04:46 AM by Stevex »
Steve
1980 Le Mans II
2009 Honda CB1300S
2005 Aprilia Tuono
Chief mechanic to wife's 696 Monster

A 'gnat's cock' is an accurate unit of measurement.

Online Old Jock

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 10:11:21 AM »
Steve maybe somebody else will reply but as far as I'm aware its meant to be more or less flush and as Dick alluded to the plunger move out as the clutch wears (I think I'm not 100% sure)

If it was me and as long as I could get the adjuster onto the actuator without any problem I wouldn't loose sleep over it but that's me, others can be a lot more pernickety about that kinda thing. I'm happy if it works

John

Offline Stevex

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2015, 10:44:28 AM »
Cheers John, not really worried as it was fine before it came apart, just interested.
Be good to see some pics of your rebuild.
Steve
1980 Le Mans II
2009 Honda CB1300S
2005 Aprilia Tuono
Chief mechanic to wife's 696 Monster

A 'gnat's cock' is an accurate unit of measurement.

Online Old Jock

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Re: Anybody put a RAM in an 1100 Sporti Got some Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 11:48:58 AM »
Thanks Steve

I always baulk a bit at rebuild threads unless its summit special like the Aero Engine Rescue thread, simply because they are pretty frequent.

But sure I'll pop on some stuff from time to time, a lightning build it will not be.

Taken me a couple of years just to get this far, but it is starting to build its own momentum (but just a little)

John


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