An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!

[wymple]

I'm a Chevy man at heart, and the worst single car I ever owned was a 62 Chevy II Nova.

[arveno]

Alfa Romeo Giulia quadrifoglio

Beautiful design , V6 2.9 Liters engine , 505 HP , 443 ft/lbs torque , 0-60 in 3.8 sec. , top speed 191 mph , what's not like ?

........... my driving license won't last longer than a week LOL


https://www.alfaromeousa.com/cars/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio


A must place to visit is the Alfa Museum , not too far from Mandello . ( couple of hours driving ) 
Bring a camera.

[twowheeladdict]

I car pooled with friends in the 70's.  I had a 1963 Nova (10 years old) that was head and tails better then the new Vega and Pinto I pooled in.

Not saying they were good cars, but they were very inexpensive and my Dad had a bad experience with a couple used cars so he preferred to buy new and keep until it died.  The family cars during this same period were a late 60s Country Squire wagon, replaced by a '76 Chevy Beauville 12 passenger van. 

[Gliderjohn]

Test drove a new Chevette once. It was four degrees and the heater would not work at all. Didn't buy.
GliderJohn

[Tom]

I sort of recall that a Guzzi won the cruiser of the year award from Cycle World around the late 1990's. This didn't solve the company's problems in the U.S. I hope Alfa/Fiat can do better.

Moto

P.S. I recently read a review somewhere of the Alfa Stelvio SUV that made me absolutely want to run out and buy one. Maybe the new Alfas really are great!

1998 California EV.  Still a good bike and many being resold w/low mileage.

[Turin]

Alfa Romeo Giulia quadrifoglio

Beautiful design , V6 2.9 Liters engine , 505 HP , 443 ft/lbs torque , 0-60 in 3.8 sec. , top speed 191 mph , what's not like ?

The price tag. $75,000... Yikes!

[oldbike54]

The price tag. $75,000... Yikes!

 Still 3.1 million bucks cheaper than the new Bugatti Chiron 

 Dusty

[EldoMike]

1998 California EV.  Still a good bike and many being resold w/low mileage.

Not mine but cheap...

https://bn.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1998-moto-guzzi-california-v11/6438069381.html

[ohiorider]

I recall before discontinuing the Vega, GM began installing Pontiac Iron Duke engines in themm (or am I thinking of another GM model?)

Bob

[wymple]

I think they finally just sleeved the block.

"Chevrolet added a coolant overflow bottle and an electronic low-coolant indicator in 1974 that could be retrofitted to earlier models at no cost. Under a revised 50,000-mile (80,000 km) engine warranty for 1971 to 1975 Vegas, the owner of a damaged engine could choose replacement with a new short block or a rebuilt steel-sleeved unit, which proved costly for Chevrolet. GM engineer Fred Kneisler maintains that too much emphasis had been put on overheating problems, the real culprits being brittle valve stem seals and too-thin piston plating. Regardless of the cause, damaged cylinder walls were common.

The 1976 to 1977 Dura-Built 140 engine had improved engine block coolant pathways, redesigned head gasket, water pump and thermostat, and a five-year/60,000 mi (97,000 km) warranty"

[twowings]

Anyway, another nice Alfa Romeo:

[Don G]

My Dad got around the crappy Vega engine problem by installing a 283 V8, now that was something better.  DonG

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

My Dad got around the crappy Vega engine problem by installing a 283 V8, now that was something better.  DonG

Yep. My brother and his friends all went with V8s of some description. His choice was a 327-300 "enhanced" with an Isky roller cam, manifold with three two-barrel carbs and a TH350 trans. Problem there was, the rear end wasn't up to the job and spider gears shattered like glass. So, a Ford 9" rear end was grafted in. Problem there was, the rear end started ripping the suspension mounts loose from the body! Eventually, he sub-framed and tubbed the rear and used a narrowed 9". Problem there was, the shortened axles weren't up to the strain of the 396 and TH400, they'd shear off like they were machined.

His friends drove much more like sane people and their mild Chevy 283s and Buick 215s were easy on the drivetrain as long as they didn't do stoplight-to-stoplight drag-racing like my brother. 

[twowheeladdict]

My Dad got around the crappy Vega engine problem by installing a 283 V8, now that was something better.  DonG

In New England the OEM engine outlasted the fisher body. 

[willowstreetguzziguy]

I just looked at the previous Motor Trend Cars of the Years since 1949 and most of them are worthless junk now!
 
2001 PT Cruiser,
1997 Chevy Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1991 Chevy Caprice
1983 AMC/Renault Alliance
1981 Chrysler K cars
1980 Chevy Citation, 1978 Dodge Omni
1976 Plymouth Volare

[Tom]

Hey......I have worthless junk in the 2001 PT Cruiser.    Gotta replace some bushings in the A arm.  Maintenance on the A/C.  Paint is shot but........it was given to me.  It's doing fine.   

[twowheeladdict]

I just looked at the previous Motor Trend Cars of the Years since 1949 and most of them are worthless junk now!
 
2001 PT Cruiser,
1997 Chevy Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1991 Chevy Caprice
1983 AMC/Renault Alliance
1981 Chrysler K cars
1980 Chevy Citation, 1978 Dodge Omni
1976 Plymouth Volare

70 years of car of the year, and your list contains 10.  That doesn't seem like most, but maybe you were just listing your top 10 worst car of the year cars.

[twowings]

[Tom]

70 years of car of the year, and your list contains 10.  That doesn't seem like most, but maybe you were just listing your top 10 worst car of the year cars.

14.28% bad.

[twowheeladdict]

I was hoping that the Italian badged Mazda Miata was going to be Alfa Romeo instead of Fiat.  I was also hoping that it would have had the Japanese drive train and only body styling differences.  I did go test drive the new Fiat 124 spider, but am not a Chrysler / Fiat fan at all.  I think I would still choose a Miata over the 124 if I were to buy a little roadster. 

[Moto]

The car reviewer for Arstechnica also picked the Guilia as his car of the year, in the $70,000 Quadrifoglia version. He preferred it to a Ferrari 488 GTB, among others.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/12/2017-behind-the-wheel-our-favorite-cars-of-the-year/

He also indicated he thought the regular Guilia wouldn't be far behind, though he hadn't tested it yet.

[stevet]

While purchasing my Fiat 124 Spider last spring I was able to witness the unwrapping of a couple Guilias fresh off the truck.  Photos mean nothing compared to seeing that car in person.  It is simply a gorgeous automobile, much more attractive than its Euro counterparts.  Far outside my price range but if it was, I'd give it serious consideration.

Alfa didn't want to market the car that became the Fiat 124.  They argued Alfas are in a different, higher price category (how would they compete with the Mazda MX5 with Alfa pricing?) and an Italian-built car at that, so Fiat, the mothership, opted to put the Fiat division badge on it with pricing similar to the Mazda.  Am I glad they did- a proven and reliable Fiat turbo engine mated to the strong Mazda transmission choices wrapped inside the Fiat sculpted and Mazda built chassis and body... the best of both worlds.  I'm absolutely loving my Spider.  About 8000 trouble free miles of fun in the sun so far.  Unfortunately it is now mothballed until spring.

Those fond of the MX5 should thank Fiat.  Rumor has it that Mazda was going to discontinue the MX5 with the 2015 NC generation model, and that Fiat's desire for a roadster, and contracting with Mazda to build it, lead to the new 2016 ND generation MX5.

Steve.

[twowings]

This little two-seater ain't so bad...

[Tom]

Quanto USD???

[twowings]

2018 4C COUPE

MSRP* starting at $55,900

[twowheeladdict]

While purchasing my Fiat 124 Spider last spring I was able to witness the unwrapping of a couple Guilias fresh off the truck.  Photos mean nothing compared to seeing that car in person.  It is simply a gorgeous automobile, much more attractive than its Euro counterparts.  Far outside my price range but if it was, I'd give it serious consideration.

Alfa didn't want to market the car that became the Fiat 124.  They argued Alfas are in a different, higher price category (how would they compete with the Mazda MX5 with Alfa pricing?) and an Italian-built car at that, so Fiat, the mothership, opted to put the Fiat division badge on it with pricing similar to the Mazda.  Am I glad they did- a proven and reliable Fiat turbo engine mated to the strong Mazda transmission choices wrapped inside the Fiat sculpted and Mazda built chassis and body... the best of both worlds.  I'm absolutely loving my Spider.  About 8000 trouble free miles of fun in the sun so far.  Unfortunately it is now mothballed until spring.

Those fond of the MX5 should thank Fiat.  Rumor has it that Mazda was going to discontinue the MX5 with the 2015 NC generation model, and that Fiat's desire for a roadster, and contracting with Mazda to build it, lead to the new 2016 ND generation MX5.

Steve.

I heard the same rumor about the Miata, but I heard it in that Mazda did not want to discontinue the miata because of the recognition it provides the company and its enthusiastic following but the bean counters were winning the battle.  Fiat making a car that has a totally different appearance and engine helped keep the assembly line open and probably didn't steal away too many Miata fans.  It brought in folks who liked the idea of a Miata, but couldn't see themselves driving one.  Mazda almost built the Miata too well since I still see NA cars all the time.  Much more than NB cars.  I am a fan of the new RF but I have already realized with past roadster puchases that I can't really have a roadster and motorcycles at the same time.  Because whenever it is perfect weather to do top down driving it is perfect weather to be on two wheels. 

The thing that pisses me off about both the Miata and the 124 is how they have different offerings globally.  Outside the US gets better seats and colors, plus backup camera.  I am starting to see low mileage loaded NDs in the used segment at entry level prices so if I keep looking and the savings reaches the point of burning a hole I might jump on a club with brembo package.  Haven't seen any RFs used yet.

[Orange Guzzi]

The Dodge Neon is re badged as a smaller engine Fiat in Mexico. 

[stevet]

Oh, my.  Video!
Alfa Romeo C4-
https://youtu.be/KnuNv77rB0Q
https://youtu.be/ySvb44ucuIE
https://youtu.be/-5K_Nvquft8

Alfa Romeo Guilia-
https://youtu.be/T0wg4CdATJk

The Fiat 124 Spider in this video, the base level Classica, is the one I own.  Stripped down driving pleasure, no bells/whistles, not a race car.  I'm starting the video near the end.  His "base level car" gripes are solved with the upgrade model 124, and also found in the aftermarket.  But when he speaks of being one with your surroundings while driving this car, I am in full agreement, it is delightful, and only around base $25k.  Turbo boost loss- greatly improved with a $150 GFB DV+ turbo diverter valve upgrade, a 10-minute DIY job.  The thermostat check engine light- a known warranty issue, they had a bad batch make it into early assembly, talk of them on the web is already nil.  Mine- problem free in 8000 miles.  The 124 Spider, the ragtop made for Guzzi riders.  A gentleman's roadster.  The 124 Spider Abarth version is goosed up for performance and suspension/handling.
https://youtu.be/anc5uHpYuD8?t=17m1s

Lastly, the story of 2 track-ready ragtops- the Mazda ND MX5 and the Fiat 124 Spider, built identically except for their engines.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/family-feud-mazda-mx-5-versus-fiat-124/

Steve.

This little two-seater ain't so bad...

[twowheeladdict]

Lastly, the story of 2 track-ready ragtops- the Mazda ND MX5 and the Fiat 124 Spider, built identically except for their engines.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/family-feud-mazda-mx-5-versus-fiat-124/

Steve.

More than just the engine according to all the reviews I researched.  The manual transmission in the 124 is out of the NC Miata.  Suspension components are Mopar. 

I have been looking at the used market for the ND Miata.  I am finding loaded '16 Clubs with less than 5000 miles with asking prices around $23,000.  That is $10,000 depreciation!  Doesn't sound like I will be buying new.  The other item I need to research before I purchase will be whether the Miata seat can handle an internal inflatable lumbar support for my bad back.

The seats in the 124 do look more substantial so if the Miata can't accommodate a lumbar support I will see if the 124 can.  If not, then I may just forgo the convertible and get a Toyota 86 or 370Z. 

Of course this is all predicated on whether my back heals enough for touring on the bikes or if I have to become a casual rider from now on.

[stevet]

More than just the engine according to all the reviews I researched.  The manual transmission in the 124 is out of the NC Miata.  Suspension components are Mopar. 

I have been looking at the used market for the ND Miata.  I am finding loaded '16 Clubs with less than 5000 miles with asking prices around $23,000.  That is $10,000 depreciation!  Doesn't sound like I will be buying new.  The other item I need to research before I purchase will be whether the Miata seat can handle an internal inflatable lumbar support for my bad back.

The seats in the 124 do look more substantial so if the Miata can't accommodate a lumbar support I will see if the 124 can.  If not, then I may just forgo the convertible and get a Toyota 86 or 370Z. 

Of course this is all predicated on whether my back heals enough for touring on the bikes or if I have to become a casual rider from now on.

Clarification- built identical except the engines, I should have said built for track use, a lot of factory parts were replaced on both cars, but the builds were spec'ed to match each other so the test could allow the engines to be differentiated.

Anyway, back to street use... you wondered about lumbar support on the seat.  Look at this article, it may offer some assistance if you are into DIY work.  Written for the 124, but may also apply for the ND MX5.  https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/adding-lumbar-support/

Steve.